So? Is that what you think?

Sheesh

When hes right , hes right! and i want to see one republican dispute obama on this.
They cant! Even the so called think tanks on the Dems side, didint dare yet speak up on this problem either.
Good for Obama i say!!!!!

Oh new eagle pics up on my blog and sign the pettition that will have eagles taken from the Endangerd list.
Please,, that is.

O.T.

The new look is great C&R and thanks too.!

'Saw the entire piece in today's Times. In addition he said that faith has a roll to play in politics, especially those religious groups working on social issues. But he was not pressed by the obvious follow-up: That's fine--if those groups support Democratic social causes. But what if they're not? Like attempting to undermine Roe V. Wade, or to kill federal funding of stem cell research, or demanding school prayer or 'faith-based initiatives' that champion Republican causes?

In fact, Obama is wrong. Faith has utterly no business in politics. It does more harm than good, as the last twenty years as clearly shown.

Obama is correct in saying this. It isn't a matter of whether it's just now being figured out or not. The point is, it needs to be said, and it's good to hear a candidate saying it.

He just lost my vote. I plan to vote for a president - separated from religion. He is campaigning for the leadership position in some church.

Not interested.

anon @ 11:

He just lost my vote. I plan to vote for a president - separated from religion. He is campaigning for the leadership position in some church.

Not interested.

What you want? Someone to say, "now I'm going to tell you how to lie, cheat, swindle, and con your way to fame and fortune?"

skippy @ 12:

faith got hijacked? that's terrible! what about hope?

After Katrina I don't think there is such a thing anymore.

"He received one of several standing ovations when he pledged that by the end of a term as president, “I will sign a universal health care bill into law.” And he received sustained applause when he called for closing the prison at Guantánamo Bay and withdrawing troops from Iraq. "

Well, he is going on the offense after lobbyists and government reform too.

I doubt Clinton will take that position but that is the only difference between the two so far.

L.A. Confidential @ 13:

anon @ 11:

He just lost my vote. I plan to vote for a president - separated from religion. He is campaigning for the leadership position in some church.

Not interested.

What you want? Someone to say, "now I'm going to tell you how to lie, cheat, swindle, and con your way to fame and fortune?"

I dont care what his opinion is on religious issues. I just dont care. Government shouldnt be about religion.

Are you implying that it isnt possible to be moral and ethical absent some church based affiliation?

Government - Obama - has no role regarding the activities of churches. His social commentary disqualified him (for me) as President - who I expect to stay of of church issues, his and others.

getalife @ 17:

"He received one of several standing ovations when he pledged that by the end of a term as president, “I will sign a universal health care bill into law.” And he received sustained applause when he called for closing the prison at Guantánamo Bay and withdrawing troops from Iraq. "

Obama must have been reading Bill Richardson's website and following Richardson's pledges.

Sam @ 14:

I'm so sick of the Pat Robertson's of the Right telling me how immoral I am because I don't love according to his standards.

When I was free I hardly payed attention to those idiots. I used to laugh it off. Then I got assets, property, stuff, responsibility, and I get unhappier by the day.

So much for the love money is supposed to offer.

Right, Obama, right, but the hijacking took place around about the time that the Irish church was dismantled by the Romanized English church. The whole god thing is sick and has no place in public life. You might as well have stage human sacrifices on the White House lawn as let the jesus crazies turn governance into a non-stop seance.

.

anon @ 19:

L.A. Confidential @ 13:

anon @ 11:

He just lost my vote. I plan to vote for a president - separated from religion. He is campaigning for the leadership position in some church.

Not interested.

What you want? Someone to say, "now I'm going to tell you how to lie, cheat, swindle, and con your way to fame and fortune?"

I dont care what his opinion is on religious issues. I just dont care. Government shouldnt be about religion.

Are you implying that it isnt possible to be moral and ethical absent some church based affiliation?

Government - Obama - has no role regarding the activities of churches. His social commentary disqualified him (for me) as President - who I expect to stay of of church issues, his and others.

If you knew anything about the United Church of Christ you would not feel this way. What makes this Church unique is that "everyone is welcome" no matter how your faith differs, what stage your faith is at, and what you embrace. It is a foundation of this church that people of goodwill can respectfully disagree. It is their belief that we are all God's children; gay, straight, evangelicals, seekers, everyone. It is a place to come together in community. UCC people also respect all other religions as just different paths to God. Expressing this openness if one of things that is truly American in a country founded on separation of church and state.

The Bottom line is which one of them is going to put lots of money in peoples pockets.

Good luck on that at this point.

Derrick C. @ 28:

Faith and our Government got hijacked. It's time to take our country back.

America is becoming the De facto country of the rich and wealthy. All the rest of us are basically screwed.

"But Mr. Obama said that religion has a rightful role to play in American politics, and he praised people of faith who he said are now using their influence to try to unite Americans against problems like poverty, AIDS, the health care crisis and the violence in Darfur."

I don't hear him saying that politics has to be governed by religion. IMO, he's saying, "It doesn't matter whether or not you belong to a religion or are a 'religious' person. If you are, walk your talk and try to solve some of what ails this country's populace. Do something helpful with your beliefs rather than something destructive." That's pretty good advice no matter what your beliefs are.

I'm absolutely as "separation of church and state" as you can get, but even Thomas Jefferson recognized that religion would play some role in our country given how much it factored into people coming here in the first place. Politicians shouldn't have to be "religious" to get elected (though the point about the difficulty electing an atheist or agnostic to high office is well-taken). But if they are religious, acting more like Jimmy Carter and building some homes for the homeless would be a hell of a lot more preferable than the religious right looking for ways to tear us all apart.

People like Robertson, Dobson, and Falwell pick and choose parts of the bible to fit their view of religion. People like Obama will pick and choose parts to fit their view. The point is all views are there in the Bible, Torah, Koran, and any of dozens of other religious writings that will fit any views from racism to the death penalty to charity and kindness. Religious influence needs to be marginalized, not by law but by enlightenment. All manor of hateful thinking can and will be justified by religion if religion remains a powerful influence in peoples life. Religion is one of the oldest and best fear based methods of controlling people.

It's an interesting thought that the Christian faith got hijacked by the right wing. Some would see it as politics being hijacked by the Christian faith. I actually lean toward the former. The Christian teachings, the book of Matthew for instance, really aren't such bad things to hear ... and not a bad way to live one's life.

Unfortunately, today's American Christians have what seems to me very little to do with the teachings of Christ. They wave their religion around the same way they wave the flag around: The simple act of waving is sufficient for most of them--that's where their effort and sacrifice end. If George W Bush indeed governed the way he believes Christ would have wanted him to, things would be a great deal different in the world right now. Billions would have been spent on poverty and disease, instead of on contracts to Haliburton in Iraq, and tax breaks to oil executives.

So I guess I don't have a problem with the Judeo/Christian ethic influencing (while not entirely dominating) the actions and decisions of elected officials. My problem is the rape and exploitation of the Judeo/Christian ethic by those who choose to lie to "people of faith" just for their votes ... then proceed to be hypocrites of the highest order.

So maybe I disagree that faith is being hijacked by the evangelicals. Maybe it's being hijacked by exploitative, lying profiteers.

But what do I know ... about seven years ago, I thought Dennis Miller was cool. Turns out ... not so much. So, hey, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=31

The difference between Obama and most of the other candidates (past and present) is that when they speak of their faith, it comes across as a calculated political statement that they make during the debates or in a Red state, but never mentioned before. When Obama speaks of his faith, it comes across as a sincere expression of who he is, something he's never shied away from.

no actually hijacking has been hijacked...

Mark Richards @ 38:

I don't feel much pity for Obama. Failure to speak up against religious nonsense has brought us into this mess and it is just continued in his cry of "hijacking". He fails to see the real problem, or is too afraid of losing poll numbers should he face it head on.

Huh? What do you think he's doing now? In fact, he's talked about this a few times in the past as well. Meanwhile, I've never heard any other major Democratic figure (other than maybe Jimmy Carter) take this topic on.

but this comment continues the lack of separation of church and state in this country. We all know you MUST be a believer to hold public office in 2007 US.....but "liberals" and thinkers wearing their faith on their sleeve is so depressing in a way.

You can believe in Santa Claus if you want, but don't expect every single one of us to respect that.

Who hasn't said that the SACRILEGIOUS REICH has hijacked faith in this country?

i recall a old radio station in NYS upstate, that every sunday had a preacher (am radio back then) who said these words
´´ church isint a place for folks to share gossip or trade recipes, nor should church be used for someones political feelings. any place you choose to worship your god,, be it a tree or a open field, is good enough for god. Lets remember folks, there are many in this world, and times are now coming where we have to understand where they are coming from.

If you as a believer cant or wont accept that, then you sadly missed the message. No true polictican uses faith or religion as a tool for his or hers own political gain.´´

then the wind blew and i lost the reception. Hey iam talking way back in the 1980s with those round ball shaped am radios too. came with one ear piece as well!

I think it's kind of sad that religion and politics have gotten so mixed up together.

Who cares about religious faith? Things that have no evidence whatsoever!! Religious belief needs to go back to being a personal matter and out of the public square.

another elmer gantry!

Wow. The comments are all Web 2.0ish now.

Well, well, well. I never thought I would hear a politician say that, but Obama did. I wish he had gone further and said that faith is detrimental when used in government, that the country is destined to fragment when dogma becomes the currency of laws and discourse, so dogma and faith should not mix with government, period.

But I'm glad he was brave enough to say what he did. Now I'll have to put him back up there in competition with Edwards as my choice for pres.

For an elected, appointed or otherwise public official, to pray, ask, consort or whatever to some god for answers for the country's problems is betraying the trust of the people. The official is elected to use their intelligence, reasoning, knowledge of the law and constitution and advice of competent advisers rather than seeking answers from faith. What makes politics in the USA even more frightening with religion involved is that all the adherents proclaim affiliation with one of the blood sacrifice religions. That of course never has seemed to work out that well for humanity much less the animal kingdom. Doesn't matter whether the denomination is liberal or conservative, loves gays, hates gays, etc. etc.. If the root of the tree is bad it cannot bare good fruit, so its been said. The official doing his or hers faith plying for advice from gods put the public trust under the rule of that god when its supposed advice is taken and set into play. The USA ran by nothing and getting answers and advice from nothing. Thats just great. Lasted a little over 200 yrs. so far. That ain't very long.

Hijacked by the overconfident and underexperienced.

Mike Morrison @ 43:

Huh? What do you think he's doing now? In fact, he's talked about this a few times in the past as well. Meanwhile, I've never heard any other major Democratic figure (other than maybe Jimmy Carter) take this topic on.

It's good that Obama is even mentioning it, but I'd much rather hear him say the following:

"Religion has its place in our nation, a rightful place - in churches and in homes. Government is prohibited from interfering with religion in equal measure to a prohibition that disallows supporting it. Permitting individual belief systems means that government has no say in what people choose to believe, providing these beliefs are exercised within the law. Similarly religion has no place in government, nor should it be allowed to dictate its beliefs through government and public institutions. The blurring of this line accounts for many problems in America today. I will do all I can to strengthen the division between religion and government while upholding individual rights."

Vast Left,
He's never suggested that politicians must have faith or that they must speak about their faith. He just thinks it should be ok for those that do have faith to speak about it. He's also made it clear that it's not alright for people of faith to impose their beliefs on others, unless they can back up those beliefs with reason. You are right that he has talked about certain elements of the Democratic Party being uncomfortable about religion, but I'm not sure what's incorrect about that, even if it does play into some right-wing memes. He's also talked about the fact that most Democrats are religious, which gives the whole story and works against those right-wing memes.

I was at the convention. He was invited years ago, before he was a candidate for president. The U.C.C. line on separation of church and state is very solid. He was invited to speak on faith and politics. He was invited as a member of the U.C.C. and was speaking to U.C.C. members from everywhere. It has to be remembered that mainline protestant churches, especially the first church to ordain blacks, women, and gays, are considered tepid, watered down, or unserious, by the media and just about everybody. The U.C.C. has every right to counter that criticism whether people like it or not.

a one speach poney!!!!!!and Elmer gantrys ghost returns!hucksters every god dam one of these religous hipocrits!

I am sure that Obama means well but he was a "No Show" for the Gonzo vote. Not good.

johncos @ 71:

The religious left in this country believes in an end to poverty, universal health care, a peaceful nation et al. They should be people who are praised and supported on this blog (just as they support the issues of this blog) not demonized because the right has politicized Christianity. The right does not speak for Christians just as bin Laden doesn't speak for Muslims.

I (for one) certainly support the religious left in these efforts. But these agenda items have to be supported on their own merits, not because a religious group says that their God demands the country be run this way. Then all of us in the left can agree and come to a common understanding, without feeling that religious beliefs have trumped all else, and a particular religious interpretation must be imposed at the expense of others. When reason is used instead of dogma, compromise and consensus can be reached. Then I as an atheist and you as a member of the religious left can be perfectly content existing with each other.

Having said that, I do not think the religious left commits the type of "because my religion says so and if you don't agree you are persecuting my religion" arguments that the religious right does. Not even close. I have come to respect many in the religious left, except of course for the ones who cannot respect those who are not religious.

Mike Morrison @ 68:

Vast Left,
He's never suggested that politicians must have faith or that they must speak about their faith. He just thinks it should be ok for those that do have faith to speak about it.

As with religion itself, wishing doesn't make it so.

He suggests that without embracing religiosity we may be lacking in values:

Our fear of getting "preachy" may also lead us to discount the role that values and culture play in some of our most urgent social problems.

And this is a bullshit Republican meme that Obama ratified:

But what I am suggesting is this — secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square.... To say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Absolutely no one -- certainly no one in a position of power -- asks believers to divest themselves of their faith and "personal morality" because they seek public office. This straw man allows Obama to paint himself as more Christian-friendly than this fantasy construce of the Democrat who insists that candidates reject or sublimate their beliefs.

It diminishes Obama and Democrats in general when he trashes his party by spreading GOP propaganda. It's just not cool.

obama is right, this remind me of the book, the messiah of morris avenue, where the united states become a christian nation through the rapture right, and this guy name jay, who is suppose to be a messiah from god, comes preaching about loving your enemies, and your neighbor. he finally get torture, and than capitally punish for treason against the united states when he preach to the american soldiers that was about to bomb isreal so that arrmeggden can comes, finally after he get kill, some of his posse that travel with him also get kill, except for his mother, he than resurrected and came to visit his mother and the reverned that was in charge of america theoaracy, and the man that order his death, where he told the revernend this, :jimmy, it is me, come to thee, all is well...there is nothing that can't be forgiven, when you understand that, you understand everything." jay, the messiah, also said some pretty interesting things, like, "love your enimies, i do, i have love every soldiers on every war that was ever fought. i have love every child of god murdered by another soldier of god, because mmake no mistake, whenever one of my children kills another on purpose, it's murder."

Samuel in Houston @ 69:

I agree that Obama and Gore would make a wonderful team. They are both unctuous hypocrites who say one thing and do another.

While Gore wastes tremendous amounts of energy flying on private planes, Obama attends a church where the pastor writes such "nonpolitical" dreck as the following in the church's bulletin:

The President tries to frame the justification for his insanity by using language describing the debate in this country over the war as “a great struggle between those who believe in freedom in moderation and extremists who kill the innocent.

The reality, however, is that the entire war in Iraq and the larger “war on terror” have been based on lies, half-truths and distortions to serve the agenda of the United States imperialism. Where is the public outcry? Where is the outrage? What’s goin’ on?
. . . .
Those poor Black and white displaced citizens of New Orleans (not imported team members playing for New Orleans), who have no place to go and no place to live because of this administration’s illegal war and its billions of dollars wasted on prosecuting that war, join with me in asking, “What’s goin’ on?”

Excuse me! The victims of Hurricane Katrina are no longer on the radar screen of the media. Only Barack, his church, his pastor and white arrogance!

Oh no politics there! No attempt at all to "hijack" the faith! No attempt there to divide us!

Obama is another third rate, hypocritical politician. I do not see why the Left gets its panties all moist over him.

Meanwhile, I'm sure you're masturbating to Fred Thompson, while in turn bashing "Hollywood Liberals", while you drool over an REPUBLICAN ACTOR RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. Read that over again to make sure you got that, I heard Texas' education system is pretty bad when Dubya was governor.

Oh and thanks for proving the "white arrogance" point Obama's pastor was making.

Faith did not get hi-jacked. Christianity is about division.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

What we need, is to get waco christians out of our government. They are highly delusional people to start with. We need rational people.

[...] for Obama for speaking from his heart… As John Amato from C&L points out, “It’s nice to see Obama say these words.” The religious right doesn’t have a [...]

couldn't agree more. faith in a higher being and an orchestrator of the universe is not a negative. because one does not believe in organized religion this does not make him a non believer. only a non believer of the organized religion that permeates our country today.

and speaking of hijacking, i am angry because they have hijacked our religion and our patriotism as well. I can no longer feel the strength of patriotism any longer without thinking does this adhere to their support the troops and support the war policy. maybe in the end, the lack of patriotism and nationalism will not be such a bad thing. perhaps that will be the one saving grace in this entire mess, the knowledge that the united states is not the only country with the only people on the planet. there has to a recognition of all people and whether we agree with the basic tenets of a culture, there must be a recognition and respect for that culture. if we as a people have come to grips with that concept as a result of this mess, then perhaps there was some saving grace.

in the end, i do feel this administration has smeared religious belief as well as patriotism. funny thing is i don't believe they did it because of their own beliefs, they did it only to further their cause. it was convenient to use them so they did. one toothed wonder in nebraska actually believes though that they believe what they are saying. that's sad. they were used and abused and they still are today.

starwheel @ 88:

Apparently Obama has never read these verses purported to be the words of Jesus. I'm not saying I subscribe to this line of thought, but it appears Jesus himself "hijacked" faith:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

I use the Bible to try to point out to Christians how waco their beliefs are. You don\’t really need the bible to show how war like Christianity is, but it helps.
Of course here are some other wacko Christian beliefs out of the bible:
1) If you rape a mans daughter and get caught, you must pay the man the dowry that he has lost since his daughter is no longer a virgin. And you must marry her. If you don’t get caught, no harm.. So rape is a Christian value.
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
2) If you buy a mans daughter as a sex slave, the rules are that you have to chothe her and feed her and screw her often enough to keep her (the verse is fairly vague on how often you have to screw her) If you get married, you have to screw both your sex slave and your wife. So, I should be able to find a Christian man willing to sell his daughter to me.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

People need to know what "Christian values" really are.