By:
SilentPatriot on Tuesday, June 26th, 2007 at 9:09 AM - PDT
Jon examines Vice President Cheney’s latest audacious claim of being not only above the rule of law, but also residing outside the traditional three branches of government.
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Exit question: What do you think the founding fathers would have to say about the Vice President of the United States claiming to be independent of the Executive branch? Would they buy the logic (or lack thereof)?
At the 5 minute mark you’ll see a 2001 interview on Nightline that tells it all. July 25th 2001—Cheney uses executive privilege to shield himself and the president against his energy task force…Nice catch TDS…
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frist??
The Founding Fathers would have said.
“Guillotine or firing squad, Mr. Cheney.”
I think the founding fathers would be aghast at the idea of a vice president who wields this much power. That office was meant to act as a “spare” president in case the president should somehow be rendered unable to execute the duties of his office. Cheney has access to power that no VP in history could have dreamed of. Even Truman wasn’t let in on the atom bomb until after FDR had died. The VP was always kept relatively weak in order to keep him from interfering with the president and gaining the ability to pull off a coup.
the ‘no-nads’ dems!
so much promised, so little delivered.
I guess I’ll just have to settle for comic relief in this amurkkkan madhouse!
I don’t think there is a single thing we can do as US citizens.
This turd, Dick Cheney, is going to be floating in the toilet bowl until Bush and his criminal gang’s term is up.
I would like to see Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld all go to jail, but it will never ever happen.
They are untouchable
I don’t think there should be any attempt at all to fix this until a Democratic administration has enjoyed the same abuse of power for eight years. And every time the Republicans whine about it the Dems just say “Cheney set precedent.”
The founding fathers would have grabbed Cheney by the ears and pounded his head off of the sidewalk until his pea brains ran wet and gooey.
CHENEY, YOU FUCK, you are doomed!
.
Did he have to use his hands?
I think at this point along the line, the founding fathers would have formed a coalition of colonies to rebel and through off the oppression of King George and his criminally incompetent governors.
That said, I imagine after reviewing the last 230 years of US History, I think they’d have tossed up their hands and just been happy the entire nation hadn’t ripped itself to shreds yet.
Still, I imagine Ben Franklin would want to give Big Dick a stern talking to.
“dick move” lol
One can only hope
If you think Dick Cheney is having a rough time, check out “Giuliani’s Very Bad Week.”
I am pretty confident the founding fathers’ response would be along the lines of, “Go Cheney yourself!”
Cheney has promoted himself to be the only living founding father so he can reform the government however he wishes. Under his vision the VP is the power; the president is only the figurehead-in-chief.
Bush’s legacy: the only president that wasn’t the president.
The term ‘tar and feather’ comes to mind.
After they got over their shock and dismay - I think they’d laugh themselves silly.
ysbaddaden @ 8:
His pacemaker has a second “secret” wire.
george washington would stomp cheney into a pool of black goo…
Founding Fathers would tell Dick to read 32 CFR 2800.
Founding fathers would remind Dick that Congressman Waxman today sent a letter to WH Counsel in re SEcurity Compliance. In the notes (bottom) on page 4of8 of Waxman’s letter there is a reference to 32 CFR section 2001, not 32 CFR 2800 which applies to OVP.
Waxman Sent A Letter:
http://oversight.house.gov/doc.....110513.pdf
Ref:
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1382
Founding Fathers’ Possible Suggestion
Share your information with Michael Gordon or David Rapallo of the Committee staff at (202) 225-5420; and encourage them to discuss with Waxman 32 CFR 2800.
Congressman Waxman is looking for any information which may shed light into any of the OVP/WH security issues. If you know someone who may have been assigned to, or friends with someone who may have known something about this, encourage them to review the issues and forward their anecdotes to Congressman Waxman.
Founding Fathers’ Possible Backup
A. 32 CFR 2800: Requirements on OVP to Comply with Executive Orders and Security Guidelines
http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/t......19.1.html
B. Founding Father’s possible suggested FOIA Preparation in re 32 CFR 2800:
http://www.citizensforethics.o.....mment-6939
C. Founding fathers’ possible sample desposition questions from George Washington:
http://www.citizensforethics.o.....mment-6729
D. Founding fathers’ possible sample questions from Thomas Jefferson in re EOP/OVP Counsel in re Atty Stanards of Conduct, wrt 32 CFR 2800:
http://www.citizensforethics.o.....mment-6707
E. Founding fathers’ possible discovery plan for James Madison in re OVP invalid invocation of Executive Privildge to hide violations of 32 CFR 2800:
http://www.citizensforethics.o.....mment-6693
F. Founding fathers’ possible Media Alert to Ben Franklin:
http://www.citizensforethics.o.....mment-6937
G. Speaker Pelosi Aware:
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=517
H. Public knows:
http://atrios.blogspot.com/200.....6686326449
I sent the Daily Show an e-mail saying I disagreed with Jon’s claim that chenney would use his finger to wag at us and tell us to go f ourselves. I suggested that it would actually be more likely chenney would use it to kancho us.
Kancho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kancho
Dang, that was funny.
Cheney really has to be stopped. His arrogance is amazing. Impeach the whole lot of them, but Cheney first. A stake through the heart might not be a bad idea either.
Which Founding Fathers are you talking about. Is it those slave owning, no civil rights for women or minorities ones, or is it the fantasy ones that have been sold to America. Have any of you read anything at all about them. Have you read anything about what a disgusting vicious creep the real Thomas Jefferson was. Have you read about how he used the Turd Blossoms of his time to smear Adams, Hamilton etc.
Those guys were not the Secular Saints that you folks are proclaiming them to be. Hamilton lived a Bill Clinton like married life, and he suffered a worse faith. Cheney is as American as Apple Pie. Enough with the self deluded attempts to pretend that he is an aberration. He is not. He is just one in a long line of similar American Leaders.
….
Never thought I’d see a VP as bad as Spiro. Cheney makes him look like Mother Theresa.
Dana Perino seems awfully smug. I can’t wait until these sorry fucks and their endless parade of blonde true-believer fembots are out of office.
It is, after all, just a goddamned piece of paper.
I think the founders would have him tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail.
When is the Washington Press Corps(e) going to just throw up its hands and walk away from the President’s yes-men? These people are the worst criminals in the history of American Government!
Cheney is a complete and utter traitor and our politicians on both sides are too worried about theirselves to fight for what is right in America. This guy needs to be removed from any and all government office immediately!
The constitution is actually a little vague about the location of the office of the Vice President — it is mentioned in both Article I (the Legislative Branch) and Article II (the Presidency) — though I think the Founding Fathers and every prior holder of the office would agree that it is part of the Executive Branch. Furthermore, if one actually checks the federal government’s own website, one finds that they put it firmly within the Executive Branch. And of course, Cheney himself has tried in the past to claim executive privilege when he didn’t want to disclose information about those secret energy meetings early in the administration.
These guys really need to get their story straight.
Ya know, we really shouldn’t be surprised at Cheney’s power. Bush has an MBA and comes from the corporate world (where, as we all know, he was a failure). Based on his MBA training, he views the presidency as a Chairman/CEO figure and the vice-presidency as the Chief Operating Officer. The CEO does the “vision thing” and lets the COO (often considered the executive “hit man”) handle all the day-to-day operations. Cheney knew that’s how Bush would run things, so he got himself installed as VP knowing he would have uncontrolled power.
I think both Aaron Burr AND Alexander Hamilton would have challenged Dickk Palpatine to a duel — on the grounds of abuse of power — and won, because Dick can’t shoot straight.
Palpatine can’t have it both ways. He can’t claim executive privilege, then refuse to obey executive orders. He’s one or the other must answer to SOMEONE. It’s called checks and balances, and he needs to be carefully checked — and balanced.
What would our founding fathers say…”We gave you a great republic and you fucked it up.”
Seamus, they were also the guys who created the first government by the people, for the people with a worthy constitution that ended up limiting THEIR OWN Power by doing so. They built a beautiful framework that led to the ending of slavery, better women’s rights than most of the rest of the world, and a freedom of speech unequalled at the time.
If they could see these greedy wanna be “Lords” divvying up America’s spoils once again like the nobles of olde, they would indeed, be sickened.
The claim by Dick is so ridiculous, so ludicrous, so laughable, that he should be impeached just for even trying it out.
But, I think the Congress should play along with it. They are kinda. Look, the Congress is Article 1. They are the boss, not the executive. Ah, but Cheney isn’t part of the executive. So he must not be part of the government. Fine and dandy, then he has no executive powers. None.
Don’t just cut off the funding. Cut out his office entirely.
Also, since he is not part of the executive, he can be arrested and indicted for any number of the things he’s done since he’s been in office.
He’s disregarded all sorts of subpoenas, etc. That’s contempt of congress right there.
They need to just arrest him.
Speaking of shooting old guys in the face, now that the thug circle-jerk is about to fall apart, isn’t it time they take aim at their faltering master? And give him the business?
I’m sorry but this comment system is far worse than haloscan.
How Many Laws Along The Way Can Can They Make?
The Teflon administration does it again. When is this just going to be against the god dam law? This shit is getting old. Very old indeed. Take your pick; this president and his cronies don’t respect the law, the congress, nor the American people. I say enough is enough; no more media misinformation and framing the issues as something to be debated. This shit they are doing is unlawful and we should refuse to take part in third party debate exercises about it.
I see an ugly dysfunctional practice being carried out. I thought no one, and I mean no one, is above the law? So what is going on? At what point does the Democratic congress take on this, not as an oversight, but as laws broken?
This vice president have went behind close doors with the greedy oil companies and worked out a way to turn the pricing structure on its heals and worked out a illegal way to bleed the American people out of Billions of dollars. This same vice president has involved his “old company” in supplying our troops after receiving no bid contracts. Americans have had to sit by and endure our tax paying wealth be loss and unaccounted for, taken without service rendered, and at times in cold, big block on pallets, dollars. I am mad, not angry, and something should be done. Impeach Bush and Chaney together, and if necessary, the whole Republican Party.
Joseph
Why in the fuck hasn’t a single Dem stood up and said, “if you’re not a part of the Executive Branch, then you can’t claim ‘Executive Privilege.’ So, if you don’t mind, we’ll be having a look at those Energy Task Force minutes.”
The swinging of the sword of humor is impressive and entertaining until you find out how dull the blade is. If CNN would suddenly report this in a serious way, THEN you would see change. This is good entertainment, but rather ineffective, in fact ,it might just defuse revolution.
Fade @ 30:
Nonsense. Slavery was ended in England long before in the USA. Women still do not have equal rights in the USA, and now the Gang of Five Christo Fascist Men on the Supreme Court have started taking away most of the rights that the Feminist movement had attained. I am always amazed at how so many secular humanists, are all too willing to canonize the nation’s founders, and lovingly refer to them as The Founding Fathers. No women involved in that either. Talk about your immaculate conception.
Read about the Brehon Laws. A thousand years ago, there was at least one other place in the World granting Women more rights, than your band of White Men were willing to do in 1776.
….
As usual, Stewart breaks it down more accurately than much of the MSM…
WHAT THE FUCK IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO IMEACH THESE ASSHOLES
modern developments, and most especially the 25th Amendment, render Cheney’s arguments entirely disingenuous. At least since the Carter Administration, the Vice President routinely sits in on Cabinet meetings, may be given temporary custodianship of the presidency during the disability of the president, and may, if a majority of the Cabinet concurs, inform the Congress that the President is unfit for office, and assume his powers. It simply isn’t true that the office of Vice President is not an integral part of the Executive Branch, and Bush and Cheney, the Congress and the courts, all know it! If Cheney gets away with this, he will have succeeded in amending our Constitution unilaterally.
This demands a fight from Congress. I just don’t think the Dems have the balls to fight back.
This man is a disgrace to everything this country stands for. End of story.
The Champ is out.
Seamus, I was of course, referring to the U.S. constitution leading to the end of slavery in the U.S., which it did. And I made no such claim that women have “equal” rights, even now, but our constitution, and the framework provided by the founding fathers of our country led to greater women’s rights in this country.
Face the facts, not your prejudices. These men COULD have acted like all the “King’s men” and established a government much more akin to England’s at the time. They could have easily set themselves up the way that Cheney, Bush, and the rest are doing AS WE SPEAK.
They DID NOT. And if you think that this constitution was more easily applied back then than it is today - you are mistaken.
I do not worship these men- but I respect their actions and deeds which crafted such an equalitarian document that strived to give this new country a breath of freedom. Yes, there were plenty of drawbacks. It was 1776! It is ridiculous to think that men of that time would have instituted powers for women. It also denigrates the worthy feminists of the past 200 years and all the achievements and strides they have made to state that all these men had to do was GIVE women equality, as if it something a stroke of the pen could do.
And Equally ridiculous it is- to denigrate the men who instituted a system of Checks and Balances while Robber barons steal political office, punish those who do not share their corruption and destroy the very checks and balances that those founding fathers created right now, 200 years later, when we should know better!
Empire Burlesque has a related story on some of the many treasonous secrets Cheney is hiding.
http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art.....llComments
bill @ 37:
A ‘p’?
The congressional leadership of the Democratic party is beyond pathetic. We really need someone like Jim Webb to put back on the combat boots and kick some asses.