Open Thread: Some Musings on the 4th of July
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Jul 03, 2007 4:10pm
I find it so ironic that today we celebrate the independence declared by our Founding Fathers against King George, only to find ourselves 231years later chafing under the all-but-crowned King George W. Bush. I can't lie; it's taken much of the sense of celebration out from me this year. So I went in search of some of my favorite writers in the blogosphere to see how they perceive Independence Day.Bob Geiger: No Joy This Fourth of July
Ian Welsh: A Birthday Wish
Scarecrow @ FDL: Self-Evident Truths...
Dood Abides @dKos: O Father, Where Art Thou?
Josh Marshall: The Big Picture
Please share what the meaning of "Independence" and "Freedom" mean to you.
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First
Happy Fourth everyone. At least we still get the day off. Although I'll be going in for a couple hours.
Cheers.
Gore's son arrested...at least he was driving a Prius!
Gores son arrested. Jesus! Thats all Fox needs to hear!
I love the 1970s kids shows. They were the best ever.
I'm so frustrated by the Administration's shameful actions over the last years. The commuting of Libby's sentence is just the most recent in a long line of arrogant and flagrant abuses of power. Iraq is the most significant, and certainly most deadly.
I've just set up a new website, http://www.GiveGeorgeTheFinger.com, that allows you to post a picture of your upturned middle finger in protest to this President and all the bad he's done to this country and the world. Join me this 4th of July by expressing your frustration, then pass it along to others.
Happy 4th. God bless.
Right there with you on all these sentiments, especially Bob Geiger's. No flags flying at my house, and my wife and I had our hot dogs and lemonade YESTERDAY, so we wouldn't be doing that on the 4th.
As for what those words mean to me, the best examples are what we no longer have, the things that made America unique that are no longer applicable. I have nothing to offer, in other words. Freedom and independence do not exist in a national context for us any more. What's even worse, there's no effort on the other side (Democrats) to restore our national greatness.
That means we each have to follow our own little path through the world, which each individual has to do anyway (although it was nice to feel part of the Land of the Free when it existed). Maybe when enough of us meet up somewhere, we can drag out the tattered old Constitution and declare that here and now, within the physical boundaries of our small region or community, we declare those truths to be self-evident and promise to live fear-free, open lives for the rest of our days.
John H. Farr @ 7:
The worst part is, now when I see the Flag, I don't think America, I think republican party.
I was born free, it was Man who forged the shackles of repression.
I was born independent, it was Man who burdens us with venality and strife.
I was born without fear, it was Man who crafted ignorance into cowardice.
I was born in Love, it was Man who took fear and condensed it into Hate.
I was born innocent, it was Man who fed the Corruption.
I was born secure, it was Man who made us fear the unknown.
I was born of Hope, it was Man who brought me to the brink of despair.
Of these things I was born, to these things will I die.
Of Man there is but one more, one more to see before History takes its due.
It will be Man who brings us back to the beginning.
Bush today spoke about the American Revolution by saying "We were a small band of freedom-loving patriots taking on the most powerful empire in the world." Talk about a Freudian slip mixed with a huge dose of irony, since that is exactly what is going on today in Iraq, with the Iraqi resistance fighters "taking on the most powerful empire in the world" namely the United States. As in Vietnam, those resistance fighters will never rest until the less than benevolent presence of the U.S. military is driven from their soil.
Bob Geiger says in a well stated piece:
"George W. Bush has taken our country and made us despised throughout the world, ruined our global reputation in a way that may take a generation to salvage and made us far less safe in a dangerous world"
Forty year old policies that even small scale were seen as obnoxious and oppresive by parts of the world have been enlarged by King George to the point that we travel posing as Canadians, vote with faint hope of being heard above corporate money noise and pray to any other God then the one Bush may believe in that redemption is still attainable
The bill is coming due and like germans after WWll we cannot pretend that it was a quirk, a perfect storm that caused our current situation
Good timing on the open thread. FTC is throwing out net neutrality, stating industry is working its way towards more competition by itself. ????
This is big, sad news. The internet is going to change tremendously. Depending on your provider, you may not be able to view this site or others without paying an additional fee, or at all.
May be we should take some inspiration from the founding fathers and turn this frustration into action. Instead of bombarding white house with phone calls, we should bombard congress with them. They are the last hope if we have any semblance of democracy.
http://www.correntewire.com/july_2_horror_ftc_abandons_net_neutrality_enables_corporations_to_fuck_startups_censor_us
swats @ 13:
If I just sit around and smoke tea all day, is that kinda like action?
Independence and Freedom. They were so much a part of the US experience that they were taken for granted, the same as knowing air would be there when you took a breath.
Now they are very diminished, and there is real fear for their future. Who on the web has not wondered who is recording their posts, and whether some day a secret court may not ask them to explain their opinion of the 'president'. Or that a newly-formed 'Council of Justice', may not equate their horror at the Nazi-like depredations of the zionists with 'anti-semitism',and sentence them to 're-education'.
There is a possible salvation, that is, perversely, that the very arrogant trampling of our constitution and our forefather's plans and hopes that this administration has engaged in may result in an awakening, a deeply-felt revulsion that insures a future, once we eliminate the travesty which now 'governs' us, in which we do not take independence, freedom, liberty and justice for granted. But in which we make every 4th of July a day to not only celebrate it, but appreciate it, and be alert for any threats to it, for, as this abominable administration has shown, the threats are present, and invidious, and no respecter of truth, or decency, or the 'common good'.
Make that 'insidious', not 'invidious'.
4th of July, hmmm ........ that used to mean something. Today is a day like any other, AFAIC. I'm working today and I won't be attending the fireworks tonight. Nothing to celebrate.
Thanks for nothing, Little Boots.
Both of these are ignoble, small, ugly and even evil, without indomitable good will, a highly educated and well informed populace, and the courage, altruism and compassion to enforce them being the bedrock of culture. Our entire government can turn, and has turned, against us because these things have NOT been upheld and perpetuated. If we don't slap on testosterone patches and swear vows to reinstate the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution no matter what, they will stay token pieces of ancient paper for the Democratic and Republican Parties and everyone whose will they are doing instead of ours.
If you're going to celebrate today, let it be for swearing that vow.
Howard Zinn has the right idea. It seems that the more flag waving that occurs, the more likelihood there is that people will fall in line lockstep to whatever the government tells them. As someone once said [Howard Zinn himself?], Dissent [and thinking critically] is the highest form of patriotism.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/01/2223/
I attended an all-boys Catholic high school in the 60s. When I was a senior, there was a special class that was named Personal Development or something like that taught by a charismatic priest who spent most of the class lecturing off the top of his head about what was going on in the world. I remember him playing a Simon & Garfunkel album and going through the lyrics, which he claimed showed alienation from God, etc. etc. He also lectured on the Vietnam War and disparaged Wane "Mouse" (Morse) and Sen. William "Not-so-bright" (Fulbright) who were two congressman agitating to bring an end to the war. Needless to say, he was a conservative. The funny thing was, though I didn't buy for a second his take on the world, I loved his class because he allowed us to challenge him. he took us on and though nobody won, we at least had the experience of grappling with a man well-versed in argumentation.
He said one thing that I will never forget and this was in relationship to the Civil Rights movement, which he felt was absolutely necessary and morally right.
"This country is an experiment, and it hasn't worked yet. It will always be in danger of failure and we'll have to work to keep it from falling apart."
Over the years, I've had many friends from all over the political n-space. All that is required is that there is that same level of respect and openness that that priest showed years ago.
Fr. Jones is still right - the American experiment still hasn't worked, and it won't until we regain a national will to keep it going. We can't do it without the good will of those conservatives who, as Olberman put it, look to the good of the country rather than the good of their party. Because if they don't, they could lose both.
Happy 4th to all you brave experimenters out there, whatever plitical brand you smoke.
Milo
Well, I was never a big fan of your country - because of your corporate based foreign policy and disregard for the cultures of others. But I use to think at least that the United States was the best the world had regarding "Independence and freedom". Sorry - I don't anymore. Much rather be a Canadian. But thanks for asking.
Perhaps the people at Google are thinking the same way. Usually the letters of Google are turned into some sort of holiday icon; hearts on Valentines' Day, a snowman on Christmas, and on Canada Day there was the Peace Tower instead of the L on Google.ca. Today the logo is pristine; no Independence Day icons, and to the best of my knowledge I'm looking at the American Google. Is that just me, or are others seeing a patriotic Google?
I have had trouble celebrating every holiday since this mf-ing war began.
With their infantile understanding of Democracy, the neo-cons are probably celebrating "In Depends Day."
Vermont Public Television is airing "a Capitol Fourth" twice tonight, so I wrote an email to them telling them there was nothing to celebrate and that they should rerun Bill Moyers Journal, Frontline or NOW programs dealing with the crimes against our democracy by the fascists in power.
No response from them; NPR is part of the propaganda band wagon.
The horizon leans forward,
Offering you space to place new steps of change.
http://poetry.eserver.org/angelou.html
OK...I comment as an outsider looking in.
As a canadian, our southern neighbors have always been our 'big cousins' and as far back as I can remember, we always had a great deal of respect for the example you set for us and the rest of the world.
On your birthday, not only am I, but most people I know, hesitant to wish you any good cheer.
The slime that your hijacked government has buttered the world with, has gone rancid and the sick odor drifts from continent to continent.
Now, on this 4th of July, the repugnant stench of the Libby commutation will hopefully choke our American cousins to their senses.
The entire world asks, "Why have you allowed this to happen and when the hell are you going to do something about it."
This 4th of July is a good time to ask yourselves, "What have I done to rectify this insane situation?"
I was once proud to have you as my neighbor, but as the trash piles up, the stink is really starting to piss me off.
gempei @ 23:
I usually just have Google News up, and had a look - no special letters. Then I went to the main Google page and there is indeed some stars'n'stripes and an eagle.
"All men are created equal."
That's always been a crock of shit in this country, but this year it's been underlined and completely discredited by the actions of our commnder-in-chimp regarding one Scooter Libby!
I have absolutely had it with huffingtonpost. There are a set of bloggers there whose comments are censured - in my opinion - to protect the image of the blogger.
Dershowitz, Efron, Learsy, Hudson, Ridley and more consistently censure comments (non-profane, non ad hominem). It is just astounding that people at huffington will decry violations of the constitution while censuring comments to protect (my opinion) their vanity and egos.
And I defy you to actually contact anyone at huffingtonpost - it just isnt possible.
Well, the left just got its equivalent of the freepers in the libertarian huffington.
I am disgusted
I find it ironic that many of the nations that were under the reigns of Kings when we fought for our independence now are more democratic in nature, with governments and government programs that serve the interests of their citizens and we are now a country ruled over by elites who serve only the interests of their wealthy class, make their own laws, and act like a Monarchy.
I must say that for the first time since I can remember, I don't feel like celebrating the 4th of July. We're staying home from the fireworks this evening. Everything that this day stood for seems to be gone. I like living traditions not dead ones.
I feel outrage with co-workers or neighbors who remain loyalists or worse, ambivalent. When engaging in small talk, I try to shift gears by asking, "What's important to you?" It gives me an opportunity to bring up any number of abuses by Shrub-thugs. My parting words to my vanpool were "Enjoy your freedoms...while they last." Yet so many operate as if they were sleepwalkers or carry on as before with what is happening not even registering as a distant thunder. And I think, so this is how it ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper. I have a hard time connecting what is going on around me with the bold actions of patriots of yor, and it makes me sad.
~
I agree with anon, HuffPo is no longer a site for free and irreverent discourse. It has apparently become a tool for advertising revenue, a sort of pixelated member of the MSM, with a governing board directing that no one be offended by any post.
One cannot speak truth without offending someone, most especially the liars, and those who can neither perceive nor understand reason and reality.
RIH, HuffPo.
Re: #31 - you are absolutely right. HuffPo unfortunately, is a gatekeeper. They pretend to welcome discourse while clearly stifling it.
~
Thanks for the video,I just got in from work and don't feel like doing the 4th thing this year.That video made me fell a little better knowing things can change.
This 4th of July is especially dispiriting, given the Libby commutation. Ever since 2001, the holiday has always been bittersweet, after the Supreme Court's high-handed selection of the country's prez, and then every 4th afterward, as our government piled on outrage after outrage and disgraced itself more and more.
One of my kids used to say that she hated America, and I always disagreed, feeling that there were good intentions at work somewhere, running against our heartless and often criminal actions, and that we the people were responsible for putting representatives in place who would make decisions and implement policies that would justify love of country. And I remember even further back, arguing with my dad during the Vietnam War, because saying "My country right or wrong" and supporting our government's actions no matter what didn't seem right. Instead I thought we ought to follow our consciences, speak up and take action when we disagreed, and fight to make our country live up to its ideals.
As Milo said, America is an experiment, always teetering on the edge of failure, that requires people of all political beliefs to care more about keeping the experiment going than about having it turn out their way (e.g., Rove's permanent Republican majority). So this 4th of July is going to be a quiet one, for reading blogs instead of setting off sparklers. It feels like we've got a lot of work to do before we can wholeheartedly celebrate our country and its birthday again.
I guess what we are celebrating is Scooter Libby’s independence from our Judicial system. Since the Bush family is related to the Queen mum (W is a 13th cousin once removed), it seems with that and all else we clearly still live under the very same monarchy we claim to be celebrating “Independence”™ from.
Have a Great Scooter “Independence”™ Day! Eat some Freedom Fries™!
Huffingtonpost is an absolute joke! Half the stories don't even allow you to post, lest you should say something that might get picked up on by Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh. Adrianna Huffington enjoys her guest spots on the TV talk shows to let her web site get discredited by the likes of people who want to freely express your opinion. I don't even visit that shitty site anymore!
In the meantime, however, please visit this site and spread the word!
http://www.dogsagainstromney.blogspot.com/
It's a cute site and we need to remind the world what a doushbag Mitt Romney really is.
A lot of good points raised in the links. TPM tries finish on a good note and state that he believes America can regain its former status in the world.
I am not so sure. In the "big picture" of history, empires rise up, peak, and begin a slow rotting from within from which they NEVER recover. The Greeks, the Romans, a the British, have all risen to a peak of influence, highly respected in the known world, and then declined. Every single time, the decline is due to powerful figures exploiting the empire for their own ends, and eventually weakening the empire to the point where a much smaller enemy could finally force the dissolution of the empire. What evidence, if any, is there that America hasn't peaked already, is now declining, and will break the historical trend and regain it's former greatness?
For too many Democrats and Republicans the pressure is too great. The question is whether to keep their careers, or sacrifice themselves at the mercy of the Republican smear machine for doing what is necessary to preserve our Republic for future generations?
Survival fear kicks in and their fear of the ruling mafia (oops I mean "elite") forces them to lie, cheat, and steal even when they know the hopelessness of their actions.
And that is pretty much where we stand today, with nearly ALL politicians in either major party in a disgraceful state of dishonor with a public that doesn't believe in their word, doesn't trust them, and has grown cynical about the very morality of their profession itself.
The "New American Century" Is going to morph into the "Post-American" world faster than we are willing to believe it can happen.
Pitifully, we are going to throw tantrums and sling bombs around in frustration at our very powerlessness.
We are not going to be able to nuke our way back to greatness, although I'm sure the ruling mafia (oops, I mean "elite") are going to try.
Happy 4th!
hi Again,
Just read the anti-HuffPo rants. I agree.
I first noticed it when I commented on an Arianna post. My comment never appeared. I resubmitted, making sure I was properly logged in - no go. It said there was a waiting period for approval (suspicious sounding to say the least, but I gave the benefit of the doubt). So I waited a day, and looked up the post again.
What I found appalled me. EVERY SINGLE accepted comment was an agreement with her opinion, and lots of the comments were nothing more than flattery ("Arianna - you're the greatest on the web" and so on...)
I was shocked. Arianna had censured every single view that contrasted with her own.
That's when I began to see what she is really like. Now we all get blasted with the latest video of Arianna on some mainstream media show, supposedly representing the left, but not really ever saying anything with any power. No big push for impeachment. No calling Nancy Pelosi on the carpet for refusing to impeach. No calling Hillary the carpet fro kissing up to AIPAC and endorsing a hundred billion dollars more with no strings attached for a war that she publicly endorsed for years.
She doesn't represent the left. She represents the softer side of the elitists, who want to rise to power themselves, but want to have the veneer of leftness.
We aren't fooled.
Freedom. First you have to free yourself.
Then when you know what you're actually talking about, what freedom truly is, things fall into place automatically.
A fabulous little read for everyone is: "Freedom From the Known," by Krishnamurti (maybe 100 pages). Free yourself first!!! (I've read it 6 times and will read it again, lifelong.)
If everyone does/did it, there would be no problem: Bush would never have/could never have gotten this far. We start by fixing ourselves first. Yes, lots of stuff about fear and longing/wanting in this above book.
Not only have we lowered the intelligence, education, and moral standards for recruits for our armed forces, but after seeing our Iraq ambassador, Ryan Crocker, it's obvious we're sucking at the dregs of the State Department (or perhaps he was drafted from the janitorial staff at DOJ).
What a doofus!
On this special day, I thought to post something that represents what our founders felt back in our nation's infancy. This is a passage from Rose Wilder Lane's book "Democracy":
"Educated men, they had studied the many attempts to establish democracy. The results were known twenty-five hundred years ago in Greece. Democracy does not work. It can not work, because every man is free. He cannot transfer his inalienable life and liberty to anyone or anything outside himself. When he tries to do this, he tries to obey an Authority that does not exist.
It makes no difference what he imagines this Authority to be — Ra or Baal or Zeus or Jupiter; Cleopatra or the Mikado; or Economic Necessity or the Will of the Masses or the Voice of The People; the stubborn fact is that there is no Authority, of any kind, that controls individuals. They control themselves.
Anyone in a free group can decide to give up his own idea and go along with the majority. If he does not want to do this, he can get out of the group. This is a use of freedom, an exercise of self-controlling responsibility.
But when a large number of individuals falsely believe that the majority is an Authority that has a right to control individuals, they must let a majority choose one man (or a few men) to act as Government. They will believe that the majority has transferred to those men the Majority-Right to control all individuals living under that Government. But Government is not a controlling Authority; Government is a use of force, it is the police, the army; it cannot control anyone, it can only hinder, restrict, or stop anyone's use of his energy."
Many people may not know this, but the founding fathers never intended our country to be a "democracy". They intended it to be a "republic", whereby the rights of every man could not be usurped in the name of a majority rule or person. As such, instead of our current system that sees 51% rule the remaining 49%, it was supposed to be a system whereby 99% could not violate the individual rights of the remaining 1%.
Something to think about...
Does Burger King still hand out those cheesy paper crowns with a kid's meal? Let us all scarf some up and send them to the Occupant of the White House (you know the address as well as your own, I suspect). The emailed copies on the Constitution don't seem to be making an impression. 'Course the crowns might actually give that boy the wrong idea. Message from the base and all.
I tend to go with the idea of freedom as-- having accepted your deterministic nature and environment-- the progressive attempt to learn about your nature, impulses, tendencies and grow from them, as well as to learn about the world, other people (perhaps the 'human world') and to grow in context of that. Not that the two are mutually exclusive paths.
The 'joy' of freedom, to me, and something that not everyone 'can' enjoy in the same way, is the confidence that I can make my own choices and succeed in my goals if I maintain the courage and determination to pursue them. It sounds simple enough, but I have to say that I do not hold to the idea that nice ideas, being ideas, are instantly theoretically accessable to all within the realm of idealism. As has been noted throughout the ages, equality, be it economic, political or otherwise has often seemed as though it was within arms reach, as if civilisation could reach out and grasp it, yet it has never eventuated. One part of this conquerable human nature, the other half, less subdued entirely.
Freedom for America from Britain is a little like moving out of your parents house. You no longer have to put up with their seemingly arbitrary rules, but you now have to pay your own way, work a job to keep up your standard of living, and live up to your own expectations, and perhaps more daunting, those of your children when they come along.
Life seldom goes on without rules, and for the average person the rules are not generally actually made by them. Your society, culture and parents informed the constraints of your situation more than you realised after you moved out. Freedom is choice. If freedom is choice, it relies on the ability to know there is a choice. That is one reason few of us are in favour of the two entrenched parties dominating the scene at the moment. Not just because they remove the choice, but also, by their domination of the media the awareness of choice. And even they arise from institutional factors.
I wish the US a happy independence day, but as repugnant as the Bush administration is and as fantastic as their removal might be, freedom has to be renewed constantly, not with the blood of patriots, but by inward and outward questioning and growth, and that process does not end with them.
Signs in the video around 2:10
American Side: Nix on Geo III
Royalist Side: Your're okay George!
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun!... Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?... I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry
**sigh** I remember those July 4ths when I'd get a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye, my hand over my heart that filled with pride as I watched the American flag run slowly up the flagpole. I sang "My Country Tis of Thee" believing every word.
This year I went to no bar-b-ques and I was too sad and digusted to go see the fireworks. I didn't even take Dad's Veteran's flag out of it's case. Instead of a lump in my throat and a tear of pride in my eye ... I feel a hollow sick feeling in my stomach and tears of grief are in my eyes.
I agree. I could really care less about the 4th this year.
My daughter said yesterday that Red, White and Blue actually make lavendar or light purple. Something to think about.
To protest Bush I hung the American flag upside down today and drove the family to the pool in the EV. It's the gasless car we have with all the anti-Bush stickers on the back. Not that anyone would notice. But I think I might just leave the flag upside down till Bush is gone. That could be quite awhile yet.
I can't lie either. All this bullshit and corruption has taken the fun out of something I have celebrated my whole life with great vigor. I am saddened for my country.
I can't help but recall the words of Sean Bedlam: "I'm proud of being really unpatriotic."
But really, it's decades like these that cause you to question just what exactly is the point of making such a big deal over a nation.
"Oh, yeah, we beat the British!"
I mean really, big deal. In the end, does it matter whether the government is centered in D.C. or London? Whether it marches at the will of a king or to the drum of a political party? Maybe in the end there's only bad government vs. halfway-decent government, whatever form that takes.
I guess I've come to resent the crazy idea celebrated every 4th of July that we got things "right" (and so need to circle the wagons and shoot at the "liberals" who want to change things), and our mutual reassurance of our "specialness". These are semi-religious ideas, not rational ones. And nationalism is the most dangerous religion of all.
GRAVITY
The flags aren't flying like they used to.
They're not riding on cars, fastened
To newly bent, molten beams
Wafting in the prickled air
Where gray spines of steel sliced
Open our fortified tranquility,
Where the most we had to fear
Was ourselves.
“Where is the wind?” we call out.
“Why do we still bury our poor
children in the flag draped caskets
of a rich man’s war?”
Have our principles plummeted
Into the craven jaws of gravity
Where a once proud people reveled
In the reasoned hope of humankind?
Where is the wind?
The pennants to their flying?
They’re not waving red, white and blue.
They’re not beaming over the living,
Or wafting in the haggled air
Where bodies coursed downward,
Hands empty of symbols.
© 2007 mrp/thepoetryman
http://www.burbankdemocraticclub.blogspot.com/">
I had thoughts eerily similar, posted on our Burbank Dems club website. Check it out.
What a pathetic listing of gripes & complaints by an obvious group of losers.
[...] at Crooks and Liars puts it well: It’s ironic to be celebrating Independence Day during a time when we have a virtual King who [...]
[Deleted. No 9/11conspiracy stuff here, and you know it-Sitemonitor]
55 Greg
What a pathetic listing of gripes & complaints by an obvious group of losers.
Sad isn't it, even you get to benefit from free speech, as thoughtless and ignorant as it may be? People are showing genuine feelings of loss...it's called being human Greg, you ought to try it.
Thanks Frank.
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