SiCKO has Blue Cross Scrambling...
By Nicole Belle Saturday Jul 07, 2007 3:59pm
Michael Moore got his hands on a secret internal memo from Blue Cross (.pdf) worrying about the ramifications of his movie SiCKO:
"You would have to be dead to be unaffected by Moore's movie..."
"If popular, the movie will have a negative impact on our image in this community." -- Barclay Fitzpatrick, Vice President of Corporate Communications, Capital BlueCross
Hate to break it to you, Barclay...
How many different versions of this movie poster are there?
Yeah, Mr Barclay, shining sunshine on dark and dank places will uncover the ugly parts.
If these institutions had behaved in the public's good will... the very public they serve and who pay for this "benefit"... they'd have nothing to worry about. The shame they feel is brought on by their greed and avarice.
To think they can get money from people and provide them nothing in return for it is appalling. What the fuck do they think is going on?! And for how long do they think people will be stupid enough to pay for nothing. The whole insurance based industry should be brought to their collective knees.
Enough already!
Duh.
Serves these dicks right. I am fully "covered" by Blue Cross (Prudent Buyer PPO) and for half a year they routinely refused to cover anything submitted because they refused to acknowledge proof of prior coverage from my previous employer. (There was no gap in employment or coverage; I left the old place on Friday and started at the new place the next Monday.) I had an epileptic seizure late last year and someone called an ambulance on me. Blue Cross stuck the entire $6000 hospital bill in my face and refused to cover a dime of it. My company actually has to hire a patient advocate to deal with these people and that was how I got out of that jam.
That seemed to be a perfectly frank and non-offensive memo to me. You think insurance providers would just ignore the movie and subject what with a Clinton running for office?
I was expecting an attack plan or something for discrediting Moore or undermining the movie, or something mentioning how it didn't matter because their lobbyists have enough power to prevent change. Instead I got a "Well shit, this is gonna make us look bad."
MillionthMonkey @ 5:
One reason working poor can't afford it-loadsa money on the premiums deductible + getting the bill. Why bother? :roll:
This ties in to a comment that I had posted regarding Katrina Vanden Heuvel. As Moore ably demonstrates in his film, Americans will never receive competent health care as long as it is predicated upon insurance companies reaping a profit. As someone said in Sicko, health care in this country should be considered a right instead of a privilege and the only way that can really be done is for the insurance companies to be taken out of the equation.
This memo reads like it was meant to be leaked to try and counter the damage the movie has done.
When you can't denie the truth, you have to distort and spin it to put doubt in peoples minds about the truth.
My wife and I are supposedly fully covered and my health insurance company is fighting me to pay for checkups and sonograms of our unborn child. I'd change insurers, but they'll probably call my prenatal kid a "pre-existing condition" and refuse to pay for the birth.
I'm really worried that we'll have to declare bankruptcy if we have any complications. Why should someone who works hard and pays their dues have to worry about stuff like that?
One thing that bugs me about this memo is that Mr. Barclay is calling our problems related to our "lifestyle choices." That's completely idiotic. Having a kid is a lifestyle choice? I saw a story on NOW about a girl in Georgia who can't get state health care, and can't afford private medical insurance. Her "lifestyle choice?" Type 1 diabetes.
Maybe Mr. Barclay thinks she shouldn't have CHOSEN to be born with a debilitating disease. Maybe he thinks my wife and I shouldn't have CHOSEN to have a child now, even though we're both college graduates who own a home and have good paying jobs. Maybe my wife shouldn't have CHOSEN to have been born with a heart defect.
Hummm...
Michael Moore, Rubber Glove, No Lube . . . . . Must be going to Fist Fuck the gop . . .
Good on ya Mike ... Just don't get any on ya ........................
BCBS was, to my recollection, a quasi-government agency here in Massachusetts before it privatized itself (and almost went under due to corruption and bad management). Someone correct my memory if it's poor.
They should talk.
I don't use them, but my provider denied a prescription for a purified and very effective fish oil. My cardiologist, seeing the beginnings of heart disease, wanted to begin a preventative regime. The denial was based on the provider's remote diagnosis: "Patient has not failed trial of over the counter products".
First, fish oil over the counter may have mercury and other toxins and is not FDA regulated nor precisely metered. Second, how the hell do you fail a trial in this case - DIE?
Meanwhile this same medication is prescribed regularly in Europe where its use has resulted in measurable short and long term outcome improvements.
BCBS complains in their document that the problem isn't their system but the status of American public health. Translation: we can't make enough profit because the population is too sick.
Yet decisions that deny pursuit of aggressive and positive prophylaxis seems contrary to their claim.
My take: they want us to die off or live to take cheap meds until we are no longer a burden on the income.
Would Mr. Barclay like to call-out the "lifestyle choice" pushing corporations that have spent the last 50 years telling us to drink Coke, eat McDonald's, etc. How about he tells the companies who force their products on our children daily in their schools to stop and perhaps contribute a year's profit to the coverage of those 45 million Americans without coverage who are also the most likely to be eating cheap fast food before going off to job number two of the day.
“You would have to be dead to be unaffected by Moore’s movie…”
No movie critic could have said it better.
BCBS should also stop harassing and filing lawsuits against doctors in America treating American citizens with Lyme Disease. BCBS sues doctors after state medical boards harrass them. Lyme patients are going without care in America in the year 2007. We all personally thank BLUE CROSS>
Mark Richards,
What they REALLY want is a nation of healthy people just paying them money and they dont never have to pay out. Dang pesky
illnesses make that impossible, so now they can't just take the money and invest it in making them richer. They actually have to take care of you.....Mr. Barclay seems to have forgotten thats the purpose of the insurance in the first place. In the eyes of people like him, the insurance company is there for his financial benefit.
We need national, guaranteed health insurance. No more denials based on pre existing conditions. Health care should be a human right. If I go to my country of birth, I see my doctor for free and any prescription I get is free. Free because the government through my fellow citizens pay for it through higher taxes. So what?
Those that keep singing the same old song about American's having a better standard of living should really put a plug in it. We have a better standard of living in America only if you factor having bigger cars, more tvs and bigger homes into the equation. I.E. We have more things in America, not a better standard of living.
Why don't we all get ol' Barclay's email address and let him know that his worst fears have already come true and that were not gonna take this bullshit anymore. Let's let him know that we've seen the movie, we are disgusted, and hell, most of us were disgusted BEFORE seeing it. My worst fear about this movie is that it will end up being no more effective than Fahrenheit 9/11, will end up being talked about and/or lambasted at the watercooler for a couple of weeks and then it will be back to business as usual. I get pretty emotional when something moves me and this movie had tears streaming down my face the whole way through at the sheer inhumanity of what's going on. It made me feel that I really have to do something but I really don't know what, but this cannot be tolerated.............ideas???
Speaking specifically about Blue Double-Cross. I was in anaphylactic shock, treated at a local hospital emergency room on a Friday night. They denied the claim, contending I, “should have waited to see my network doctor on Monday”. At the morgue maybe.
We need a lot of things. A whole bunch of internal memos from every federal agency and the White House would be nice. Seems secret memos from the business world are easier come by.
Looks like loyalty oaths amount to something, but only for The Dick n Bush show.
The likes of sociopathic CEO's can be hung in the third inning, after the opener hanging of all neocon traitors in the maladministration, the second inning following up with Mann Vulture and Bill O'Leilly types. Build the gallows and pass the popcorn already!!
GOT ROPE?
Sure their worried now, but next month when regular Americans don't remember even seeing this movie, it will be business as usuall.
Back in the 90's, health insurers had snitfits, saying "bureaucrats will tell you what doctor to got to!"
Fine, now we have heartless bean counters doing that.
I love my medical insurance--it's called Medicare.
Unfortunately, I had to become disabled at 45 to get it [and don't get me started on the 2 years--sick and without income--that I had to wait to be eligible for SSDI].
This look at U.S. health care by the numbers includes comparisons of the American health care system relative to other countries and between the states, plus data on the uninsured, rising health care costs, the woes of Medicare and Medicaid and more.
For all the details, see:
"SiCKO Required Reading: U.S. Health Care by the Numbers."
Thank you for posting a thread on Sicko and a great American, Michael Moore.
I sent Mr. Moore a personal thank you for his work.
The Blue Cross Blue Shield "corporate communications" is absolutely typical of the kind of propaganda and garbage that exists in today's larger corporations. I worked in one of these places (their parts are "inside" every computer...UGH), and the comms department (part of Human Resources) is nothing but blatant propaganda.
Furthermore, the people who work in these departments know exactly what they're doing: brainwashing the ranks within.
THANK YOU Michael Moore for exposing these third-party monopolies who trashed our healthcare system, inserted themselves as middle-people, and are draining our pockets to line their own.
rainyseason @ 18:
Barclay's cellphone number is listed in the memo. I figured he must have changed his number by now, I called. His mailbox is full. There is an option to page him however, and that's what I did! Cellphone number is 717 329 3648. While his memo isn't incriminating in itself, I've got a list of good questions to ask this scumbag. Anyone??
MillionthMonkey @ 5:
Heh heh I just dug this little gem out of my Sent Items folder: a quote from my initial desperate email to them, a little censored:
My PPO (Blue Cross of [state], "Prudent Buyer" Plan) is refusing to cover any of my medical costs other than routine prescriptions. The denial codes indicate "additional information needed" and the code on the denial form provides a deadline of 45 days or else it warns the claim will be permanently denied. When I call Blue Cross, the person on the phone indicates that I need to send or fax information about prior medical coverage. Presumably this refers to the Certificate of Group Health Plan Coverage from [previous employer] which I have here, dated [date], stating that my previous coverage began [years ago] and ended [two days prior].
I keep faxing them this thing and they keep refusing to acknowledge its receipt. They are still denying new claims and attaching the same "information needed" code to each denial. According to the people who answer the phones at Blue Cross, this information (the certificate of prior coverage) should be faxed to the "correspondence office" at Blue Cross. This office has a fax number: [(XXX)XXX-XXXX]. It is purposefully not equipped with telephones, in order to circumvent a claimant’s ability to receive acknowledgement of a fax transmission (I’m just telling you what they said). Furthermore once something has been faxed to this correspondence office, they will only consider that original fax copy of the document to be valid, and will immediately throw into the circular file any subsequent copy of the document that is faxed to them. They said this document policy applies even if the original has been lost in their office. If that happens, a claimant’s only recourse is to have them find it. (Again, I’m just telling you what they said.)
These people were a big help; it took them a couple weeks to get all these notifications forcefully propagated through the labyrinthine structure of Blue Cross to all the little endpoints that needed them to resolve dozens of denied claims, but despite serious resistance they did it. I can only assume it required intimate knowledge of the emaciated patient rights still afforded by law. I could have never done it myself; I was really lucky.
Memo reads like BCBS is -not- a for profit insurer... haha pull the other one.
I have blue cross. No complaints yet for me.
[deleted--off topic. Please limit your posts on topic threads to the actual topic. There is an Open Thread for general discussion]
Good, maybe they will actually have a heart and help all people in the country get good affordable healthcare.
ive had blue ppo. yea you won't have complaints until you actually try using your insurance. then you start learning all this sht. sure blue ppo monthly plan is affordable. until you get hurt and need medical attention. you still pay up the ass and they refuse coverage on a lot of things.
joe! @ 30:
This reminds me of so many German citizens during WWII who said, "I'm not a Jew. No complaints yet for me."
I live in NY and worked for a co. based in Missouri, and hence was "covered" by BC of KC.
I needed to file complaints with the Missouri Dept of Insurance to get them to do anything.
I could make my own documentary about them alone!
Everyone should get to know his/her own state's insurance dept. and don't ever hesitate to file complaints against the bastards.
The argument that Blue Cross is not-for-profit, and therefore less inclined to limit coverage than private insurers, doesn't hold water.
The American health sector is dominated by private insurers and HMOs. in order to preserve their profits, they have to exclude sick people from their client pools, and restrict coverage wherever necessary to prevent "excessive" insurance claims. The private health insurance business is effectively a filter designed to restrict payouts (cost) so that the maximum amount of insurance premiums (revenue) can be retained as profit.
Not-for-profit insurers have to follow the same restrictive criteria, in order to avoid the burden of paying for the treatment of all the people deemed by private insurers to constitute an excessive insurance risk.
What I don't ger
Scarecrow @ 34:
That's way over the top Scarecrow.
Wow... this is an ugly commenting system.
http://www.bp.com/genericsection.do?categoryId=3000109&contentId=7002614
So we're all about to e-mail that address listed within the memo and tell him to go to hell right?
I tried to get medical coverage through BCBS a couple of years ago, but they wanted me to pay well over $500.00 per month because I had a pre-existing condition with my knees. And the therapy required for my knees would cost $130.00 per hour if I tried to get the treatment directly. What did I do? I said I'll continue to use them until I can't walk anymore. I'd rather be on crutches for the rest of my life than face bankruptcy.
Like the oil companies, they're "working on", and "improving", and "progressing" on new systems and programs that will do nothing more than put a band-aid on a bullet wound. 40+ million people without health insurance is a crisis. You can be perfectly healthy and get ran over by a drunk driver and watch the medical costs pile up. One of the little features they're adding to their current service does nothing to address that issue. And the fact that you do bill your clients hundreds of dollars each month tells me you are apart of the problem, and not apart of the solution. The fact that I have to pay for ANY emergency service is immoral and unethical.
If we have money to KILL, then we have money to HEAL!
It won't take any effort for the reich-wing media to make Moore look like a raving osama hugging communist nut. The sheeple will nod approvingly and go back to their private hells assured in the knowledge that stirring up the master is only going to make it worse.
Since "Sicko" has been out, I have noticed some interesting "letters to the editor" in Phoenix newspapers complaining about the dangers of socialized medicine. Today, the Az. Republic has a letter warning about "doctors from other countries who could be terrorists" and conflating that with socialized health care.
I wonder if this "letters to the editor" campaign is happening around the country? I'm guessing these letter writers haven't even seen the movie.
A couple of really good simple points in Sicko that we can share with people who just don't get it.
Libraries, fire depts, police, and education are all socialized in our country. Shouldn't medical care ALSO be so?
And I think it was the example from England, the doctors actually make more money for showing progress/results in preventive care such as lowering cholesterol and blood pressure. What a concept!
Wow.
A lot of people aren't happy with their insurance. Almost makes me glad I don't have any.
I'd love to see a documentary on Veterans who are denied health insurance because they were treated for PTSD while in the service.
Hell, they could start be interviewing me!
Peace
I just sent this email to Mr Fitzpatrick: I'm sure he'd like to hear from you as well!
Dear Mr. Fitzpatrick,
My wife and I just came from a viewing of Mr. Moores newest film. My wife has Ataxia and is currently using a cane to walk. Needless to say we were viewing the film with intense interest. It did not escape our attention that one of the disqualifiars that scrolled across the screen was Ataxia. Indeed it seems that any condition was sufficient to deprive an American citizen of health care. Your memo seems to imply that your company is innocent of such procedures; perhaps, but not likely. I'd like to suggest that this is an excellent time for some soul searching on behalf of your industry. This is indeed a time of intense greed and we are all guilty of it and quite likely to pay severe penalties for our actions as a society. We all need to examine our place in the commonwealth and how our actions affect others in the Global community. This is not a job for the lazy or morally bankrupt and as the saying goes- What goes around comes around- and it has come around to rest on your industries doorstep. I do hope you think beyond yourself in solving this problem. It's been nice chatting and now I must contact everyone I know about a compelling new movie that I've just seen............
Bob Kasprzak
Musician/Fine Arts Painter
Fox News Alert @ 37:
The hell it is.
43 million people without insurance.
It all starts with "No complaints yet for me".
Take your blinders off.
We don't need health insurance. We need health care. [Rinse and repeat.]
The only way I've ever gotten Blue Double-Cross to do anything is by filing a complaint with the California Attorney General's Office, Dept. of Consumer Affairs. I'm not sure the Office does anything, but getting that cc seems to galvanize the Double-Cross trolls into understanding that 2+2=4. Don't know if it would work in other states.
re #42, atrox: fact-free letters to the editor, huh? That's actually a tactic the Rovians / right wing noise machine got caught at when spreading BS about the Iraq war. We need to get readers to send them all in to one place where they can be compared. (Identical letters from Billings, Montana and Poughkeepsie, NY, are kind of a giveaway.) Here at C&L? Or maybe Josh Marshall's TalkingPointsMemo?
quixote @ 47:
Yes, you're right.
It's like calling Iraq a "war" instead of what it is: An occupation.
BCBS certainly has no claim to self-righteousness due to being non-profit. I'm now covered by Health Net, which is for-profit, and have far better coverage, response, and help from them than I ever did under BCBS. They're far from perfect, but just because a company is non-profit doesn't mean they're going to care about you or not try to screw you over.
[Deleted. Do you have something to contribute here, or are you trolling for a flame war?-Sitemonitor]
These comments give me hope that we will get our act together on Healthcare in the near future. We need to make noise and hope our voices and votes can compete with their (Insurer's) dollars.
Good health.
There's a right way to say something and a wrong way to say something. Scarcrow's Nazi analogy is saying it the wrong way.
That said, we've got a huge problem with the current model of health insurance being provided by employers and not universally available to citizens regardless of employment status. If you have a decent job with health insurance benefits, there is no health insurance crises. But if you are as Scarecrow points out, one of the 43 million Americans without insurance (or one of many that are under-insured), you are screwed.
Universal coverage is not a question of if, it's when. In addition, we'll all got to watch our diet and get some exercise or it will be very expensive.
Scarecrow @ 46:
Yep! Look at the big picture, PEOPLE! Remember the Sheople that said, "I support warrantless wiretaps. I have nothing to hide."
Nearest theater is 87 miles away (according to Mapquest). Still waiting for it to be a reasonable distance away.
Of course Blue Cross is worried how this movie may affect their image. However, this does not prove how "bad" these companies allegedly are. Blue Cross, among many other insurance companies, are merely planning for the movie's fallout. The reason this movie requires planning and courses of action on the part of the insurance companies is because these companies know how sheepish and mindless the majority of people are when it comes to the reasons why the healthcare industry in the US is so bad.
Most people will simply conclude that the insurance companies are "evil", "cold", "profit seeking" enterprises with no regard for human life. They will not bother to look deeper into the problem of exactly WHY the healthcare system is like this, and at the same time why the shoe industry say, is not like this. There are thousands of profit seeking industries in the US, and the majority of them are honest and legitimate. Why then should the healthcare industry be any different? Of course there is a very good reason why the healthcare system IS so bad. It cannot be profit seeking, because ALL companies operate in this respect and do much good for the population.
The answer of course is that they have a privilege bestowed upon them by law-making authorities who either turn a blind eye to the corruption going on, or they outright pass legislation that allows money sharing between the companies and law-makers. The question then becomes WHO should we blame? We should blame those who are responsible naturally. In this case, the guilty are both the government officials who pass the laws and regulate the industry in order to benefit themselves, as well as the industry who lives and obeys those laws and thus benefit themselves at the expense of others.
If the government really did its job, if it did what it is supposed to do, then any and all faulty claims denials, corruption and fraud would be ended. Just as the shoe industry is prevented from engaging in fraud by government laws, so too should the insurance industry be prevented from engaging in corruption.
THIS is the proper analysis that everyone should be done here. It is detrimental to ourselves if we simply make the easy and superficial conclusion that it is nothing but "profit seeking". Profit seeking is not inherently evil or bad. It is the fundamental cause of progress in an advanced society. If we simply say we need universal healthcare, then the same corrupt government officials will then be in charge of our health. Yikes. You may argue that it works in other countries, so why can't it work here? Well, I've already said it before, it may work in the short run, but it is unsustainable. Over time, inflation will operate in the healthcare industry (as well as all others) and hence the costs will become simply too high to be able to be provided for. This is why it is so bloody expensive in the US. To any extent that it is cheaper in other countries, it is only temporary. Costs are rising in those countries as well, and when they become too high, universal healthcare will end abruptly, or the quality will plummet. Either way, it cannot work long term because it goes against human nature and human choice.
What we need to do is solicit those in government to change the laws and stop allowing the insurance companies to benefit themselves in this way. Of course, the easiest thing to do (Occum's Razor) would simply be to eliminate all regulations in the healthcare industry except of course those regulations that prevent fraud and theft. But alas, many politicians simply are too greedy and corrupt to change the laws as it benefits themselves to keep the status quo going. These politicians just love it when ignoramuses approach them to advocate for more regulation and laws in the "evil" healthcare industry, because this of course is the reason they are involved in this sick game in the first place. They WILL make more laws, but since the current generation of lawmakers are Constitutional bastardizers, the laws that get passed will benefit the same people all over again instead of being based on sound economic, philisophic, and moral grounds. We THINK we are making things better by giving the government more power, but this is a very dangerous game to play, and I don't think anyone here believes that our current government is moral or honest enough to make things better. WE need to make things better. WE need to take care of our own problems and advocate for total and complete freedom in the healthcare industry. Yes, "same old" free market crap again!
If anyone here thinks it is the free market that caused this malady, basing this conclusion solely on the fact that many corrupt people are making money, they need to get their heads examined. The healthcare system in the US is certainly NOT a free market in operation. It is entirely the opposite. It is corrupt people milking an ignorant public and getting away with it scott free. They have rooting for them: on the one side (leftists) who think it is the evils of capitalism itself that is to blame. This is not the reason things are bad and so the left is harmless. Forget about them. On the other side (rightists) who think that any money making, regardless of how it is made, is moral and righteous, so the industry should be running fine. If it is not, then it is because of the leftists who are trying to "turn the country into communists". This also is not the reason for why things are bad and so the right is also completely irrelevent. Is there anyone left? Yes, but this line of argumentation probably loses about 95% of the population's interests because 95% of the population think that left and right are the only approaches to economic problems. If both the left and right are wrong, what is right? Answer: You. Me. Each and every single person in the world. Liberty.
"There’s a right way to say something and a wrong way to say something. Scarcrow’s Nazi analogy is saying it the wrong way."
Wait, wait, wait.
Who said anything about Nazi? I didn't. You did.
Some people, such as yourself, skew the substance of what is said; they skirt around the truth.
Here is a poem for you, from Wikipedia. You can focus on the Nazi part all you want, but that is not the real focus:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
"This reminds me of so many German citizens during WWII who said, “I’m not a Jew. No complaints yet for me.”
I define that as a Nazi analogy.
Too bad you are so self absorbed in your hyperbole that you don't realize that we basically agree with each other.
Icelander @ 10:
This "life-style choice" comment really pissed me off, too. Since none of these fucking corporations EVER stand up for regular people - despite being uniquely positioned to do so, how dare they blame the health care "crisis" on all the fat people that the fast food snack food alcohol industry has carefully cultivated over the last three decades? Yeah, its still "our fault" for buying into (and buying) all this shit, but the HMO's, the AMA, the insurers could have all been banding together with funds for PSA's warning people that the next big-ass buffet they go to could kill them or push them over to Type II Diabetes, and maybe instead of that DQ banana split they should have an apple and a three mile walk. Fuck 'em. They stayed silent. They now deny claims when they knew how Americans were morphing into Bovine Sloth Nation and could have done something about it. God Bless Moore for being an agitator who makes people think. G****mn those who compare him to Coulter.
Scarecrow @ 34:
My reaction exactly. God, I hate people like Joel.
Fox News Alert @ 57:
All Germans were not Nazis. You are wrong on many levels. Learn history before you leverage it.
Fox News Alert @ 52:
Actually, if you are unfortunate enough to get a very srious disease, such as cancer, you are screwed even if you do have "good" insurance. I watched my mother go through it. Despite being meticulous about finances, the insurance company found all kinds of creative ways to avoid paying, then cut her off completely leaving her to foot the bill alone. She avoided bankruptcy by the skin of her teeth, and after she went into remission and was healthy again, it took a year to find work so she could start paying the staggering debt. You know why? Because she was uninsurable because she had cancer.
Universal insurance coverage is nothing but a gift to the insurance companies. What we need is to go single-payer and eliminate the health insurance companies altogether. As it is now, they are just a money suck from health care and provide nothing of value in return for the cash.
Universal health insurance: NO (unless you really like the system we have right now), single-payer: YES
#54-HDon
It is a long trip but seeing this important film should make the journey worthwhile. My wife and I traveled a hundred miles to Portland, Or. last year to see the films Why We Fight and Who Killed the Electric Car and we felt that traveling that distance was definitely worthwhile after seeing those outstanding documentaries.
I hope Sicko above all raises the question of where the priorities should be in our government, whether our government should prioritize taking care of us or whether our government should prioritize defending us against threats of terrorism.
the BCBS dude is right about one thing: that lifestyle choices are a major driver when it comes to health care costs. i don't care if you live in a country where universal health care is available or not-- it matters, and Moore should have addressed it in his film. it would have only made the film stronger. but he does tend to skew issues sharply toward whatever point he is trying to make, and i believe that does weaken his films.
given the fact that BCBS readily admits that health and wellness are crucial issues for Americans, why don't we yet have insurance coverage for things like massage therapy, accupuncture, and other so-called "alternative" wellness modalities, as Canadians do? i really wish Moore had explored that issue in the film.
Private Freedom...
Still upchucking that same old libertarian BS eh?
First and foremost... private "for profit" health insurance are at the root of the problem. One third of every health care dollar goes to feed the massive bureaucracy necessitated by the insurance companies, a bureaucracy with one purpose… to minimize their losses, reduce their risks and maximize their profits by denying patients coverage.
It is a simple equation:
Deny coverage = maximized profits
It’s the only industry that turns away almost 40% of the people who apply and have the money, but get denied for pre-existing conditions. BC&BS of California got fined a million dollars this year by the states Inspector General because they were dropping women who got pregnant and individuals who got sick.
The last time you posted this:
“Please Mr. Amato, you can’t support Michael Moore and what he is doing, and then deny the existence of the only solution that is possible if we frame the debate in his terms. He is complaining how 50 million people don’t have health insurance. So what? Why is this a problem? See, many poor people from around the world come to the US in search of prosperity. Compared to what they had before, a life in the US without health insurance is way better than before. The fact that so many people don’t have insurance is a reflection of how many people, rich and poor, want to be in the US.”
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/01/mtvs-kurt-loder-does-hit-job-on...
It’s a problem because according to the study done by the Institute of Medicine 18,000 Americans die every year of diseases that were treatable but they didn’t have access to health care. We are one of the last major industrialized nations who don’t provide universal health care.
Frankly… your position that it is not a problem is the problem! It is blind self serving ego-centrism and as a direct result causes the death of 18,000 Americans and drives another 440,000 who had health insurance into bankruptcy each year. It is statement worthy of a sociopath!
Your other position that it is government is the problem is equally inane, it is an ideological stance driven by your libertarian philosophy and not substantiated by the facts. The average HMO in the US has an overhead of 17%, while Medicare runs with a 3% overhead efficiency rate.
A corporation is neither moral nor immoral… they are amoral in that they have one responsibility to their share holders… to make as much money as they can for their share holders. They are what they are and “risk management” for them is deny services and denying coverage. They do not belong in the heath care because of that fact.
If you haven't seen this movie, please, go see it. The thugs and crooks are lying to you and taking our money to pay those who do not need it. What a bunch of crooks. If Republicans didn't lie to you, they would have nothing to offer you.
seepeesate @ 61:
Why not universal. OF course it should be universal. Otherwise you get the seemingly "not-for-profit" who in reality, if they truly were not for profit, they would have the only intention of putting themselves out of business, by getting their members well, not looking for profits. Of course not-for-profit organizations look for profit. Get with the program, the only difference is that the not-for-profit do not have stockholders or board members who DIRECTLY benefit from the profits. The money is pooled back into the organization. FOr a company that does nothing except take in money and look to NOT spend money, where DO the profits actually go, in a not-for-profit. and why do they state, as from the letter:
"1) The Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) and the 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield
companies are committed to improving the U.S. healthcare system for our nearly 100 million members through continuous innovation that reflects the ever-changing healthcare landscape and the needs of the consumer. "
HELLO! Healthcare is NOT a consumer item. It is a need. Moores' movie puts it all into perspective, by aliging it with police, afire and libraries. All perfectly socialized processes that ALL UNIVERSALLY have come to use and expect.
BCBS is a terrible PPO, compared to United Healthcare I had before. BCBS has these doctors who have never seen you making decisions to overrule your doctor. I kid you not, some guy kept blocking some procedure my doctor ordered because he claimed it wasn't medically necessary, without ever seeing me. I love how the same politicians who ban online pharmacy doctors from prescribing you medicines without seeing you in person allow HMO doctors who have never seen you to contradict and block orders from a doctor who has seen you and is a specialist in the field.
Limitations of the Consumer-Driven Health Care Model
All of which serves to highlight the growing dangers to Americans' health and safety posed by the growing conservative religion of "consumer driven health care" (CDHC).
From "Unhealthy Trends:"
This trend is greeted with enthusiasm by the advocates of consumer-driven health care (CDHC) in the Bush White House and its conservative amen corner like the Wall Street Journal. They encourage new market-based approaches like tax-deductible health care accounts, which allow individuals and families to save towards health expenditures, rolling over unused funds from year-to-year. Cost-conscious health care consumers, they contend, will drive down costs by optimizing their "purchasing decisions" and avoiding unnecessary treatment.
CDHC detractors, however, argue that medical savings accounts and similar plans supported by employers will neither curb costs nor provide for healthier Americans. Arnold Relman of the Harvard Medical School in a stinging critique of the CDHC model rejects the model of patient and provider meeting as equals in the marketplace for health care, arguing:
"...Our health policies have failed to meet national needs because they have been heavily influenced by the delusion that medical care is essentially a business. This delusion stubbornly persists, and current proposals for a more "consumer-driven" health system are likely to make our predicament even worse."
Robert Reischauer, president of the Urban Institute and vice chair of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission concluded bluntly "this trend will shift more of the costs of health care onto the sick, especially those with chronic conditions, larger families, and older workers and reduce the burden on the young, the healthy and singles."
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000654.htm
gene214 @ 14:
Good point. Don't take the critics' word for it. If the insurance industry thought this movie was factually inaccurate it would have sent an army out to broadcast their Ah HA! moments and to villify Moore. But if they think this movie can hurt them then it must mean he was on to something.
Michael Moore's the man. I'm telling you if you watch Fahrenheit 9/11 it is just as relevant today as it was when it was released (except the number of casualties are astronomically higher now in Iraq than they were back then). The only problem with watching it now is it is so depressing to know that even after its release we still had enough ignorant fools to reinstall this guy who is running our country into the ground just like he did Arbusto Energy.
In Canada we have universal, single-payer health coverage. Turns out you can save a lot of money by eliminating all the useless middlemen. In September of 2000 I had brain surgery to remove a large brain tumour. I can't imagine anyone calling that the result of a "lifestyle choice". Thank god it was benign, and thank god my family didn't have to go bankrupt to pay for it. It's absurd expecting you to pay your life savings for medical care when it's random bad luck. With all the tax collected in a rich country like America, there should be enough to pay for a safety net for Americans.
Barbara in B.C. @ 71:
God, that was well stated.
completely agree, Barbara. which is why i'm heading back to Canada as soon as i possibly can, and hopefully for good this time. :)
p.s. the comment i made about lifestyle choices mattering was not to contradict the very salient points that Moore makes in the film; it was only to say that the film would have been stronger had Moore at least thrown a token few minutes towards issues like obesity and fast food consumption. one in three Americans is obese; it's a factor.
rubyinparadise @ 74:
It's definitely a factor, especially when it's a lot easier to get a Big Mac than fresh veggies from the local market. I'm sure most folks would LOVE to have a better diet...if they could actually AFFORD it. There's a reason why obesity and poverty are linked.
rainyseason @ 18:
I am VERY with you on this.
What do we need to do to a) let those in charge know how angry and TAKEN we feel ("Best Country" in the world, my ass!) and b) CHANGE the situation----now?
Barbara in B.C. @ 71:
Harvard University did and extensive study and found that 1/3 of every health care dollar that American's spend went to feeding the bureaucracy that the insurance companies created. They estimated that this comes to about $350 Billion dollars per year and that if we switched to a "single payer" system like Canada, that it is enough money to provide "high quality" health care to every man, woman, and child in the US.
The Health care accounts provided by the Bush and Obama proposals are simply Bushit! They would leave millions unisured because the "for profit" insurers won't cover them because of pre-existing conditions. Those conditions can be as simple as a bout of childhood asthma to even vericose veins.
The LA Times researched this very heavily and found estimates on how many applicants for health insurance were denied coverage and they range from 24% to as high as 40%.
Further, these accounts do nothing about cost containment. Healthcare cost are projected to double in the next ten years. Right now 440,000 families buckle under the impact of a medical crisis in the family... they went bankrupt and 75% of them had health insurance. How many more families will fall into poverty when these costs double?
Sicko is truly a masterpiece. It ties in almost all the issue Progressives have been fighting for decades.
Sicko is the movie that ties all the other Michael Moore films together. We see that uncontrolled capitalistic greed has deeply demoralized the USA. Money goes to the biggest dogs and scrapes are left for the rest of us. I wonder how many people would get proper health care if we didn't throw money at a missile defense system or the newest laser guided bomb.
Let's get this agenda pushed down the throats of Congress: Free Health Care, Free Education (Pre-school to College), Free Retirement (a basic living standard for all elderly).
There's no reason that Americans need to be living in fear, stress, or lack of feeling that the country doesn't give a shit about them. Like the British MP said "living in fear, or demoralizing, or basically stupid, a voting public can be controlled." (something to that effect) Democracy is the opposite of this. I like what the expatriated American in France said, "In France the government is afraid of the people; In the US you have exact opposite."
Also for good measure, the government should provide Free ISP for the Internet. It should be the Constitution. Insurance for a people powered democracy. ;>)
sundog @ 78:
Here's another one for the Chickenhawks!
I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
---Dwight D. Eisenhower
"If they've gor nothing to hide, they shouldn't be worried about it." Right??
Hmmm Mr. Barclay you deny simple blood test too not just expensive test you also don't care much for family medical histories unless you can use them to deny a claim. If Blue Cross of California had done a simple anti-body blood test for lupus as I requested in 1990 instead of waiting till Jan of 1991 my son might not have suffered so much pain and the crippling effects from Dermatomyositis-not to mention the years of fighting for treatment after he was diagnosed. Your company wanted to send him home after his second day in Children's to let "his mother and let his take care him" right... let him die at the ripe old age of 13 was the real message. What's that phone number again?
sorry the quote should have read "let his mother take care of him"
My favorite part of all of this anti-Sicko crap is that they say Moore presents no solutions to the Health Care disaster we have in this country. What they really mean is that they don't want it, because he does have a plan, it's just that it means insurance companies won't exist anymore.
The game is up.
Here's another horror story: My wife's little brother, a great 13 year old who's forgotten more about insects than I'll ever know and can beat me at any video game we play, has muscular dystrophy. About two years ago he became unable to walk due to muscular degeneration.
Capital Blue Cross, the same company Mr. Barclay works for, DENIED him money for a power wheel chair. My mother-in-law, his caretaker, had to go buy a folding wheelchair for the year that they said a power wheelchair wasn't "necessary."
In the meantime, his posture degraded (in part because of him not being in a properly sized and fitted wheelchair) to the point where he had to undergo a risky surgery to fix his scoliosis. By this point he was on public assistance, and WE THE TAXPAYERS had to foot the bill for this surgery, which was made more expensive and more painful because of the actions of Mr. Barclay's company.
I guess Mr. Barclay would say that my little brother-in-law shouldn't have made the lifestyle choice of having MD.
You mean Sicko might cause me to think that they are even worse than the souless, unprincipled, thieving, dishonest gangsters I already believe them to be? That I might think even less of them who profit from people's misery than I already do? That I could hold them in even lesser esteem, they who never complain when they take a sucker's money but scream bloody murder if they are compelled to live up to their obligations? You mean that they're afraid that I might add child molestors to the list of lowlifes (which includes drug dealers, lawyers and evangelistic preachers) that I'd rather be forced to share company with in preference to themselves? You mean that they're worried that I might come to regard them as something wosre than the social-fucking-parasites I view them as currently being (I'm not sure what that is, but I'm sure I'll think of something)?
Damn! If these scumbags are worried, it must be a really informative piece of work! I'm going to have to go see Sicko immediately, so that I can recalibrate my assessment of these slimeballs to more accurately represent an opinion of them that they more truly deserve.
c. atrox @ 42:
c. atrox,
They've seen the movie. The letters to the editor are part of a industry lead swiftboat campaign. The memes and talking point are universal, whether it coming as phony news and analyses from FOX Noise or whether it's emanating from the propaganda sheets and blogs or whether its coming from "concerned readers" writing into the editorial section. The uniformity of the "arguments" indicates a top-down orchestrated campaign.
sundog @ 78:
I totallly agree. Those were two of the most memorable quotes in the entire film. I actually paraphrased the French gov't is afraid of the people and in America the people are afraid of the American gov't quote when telling one of my friends whose husband is in Iraq that we were going to raise hell here since he's living in hell there because this surge thing isn't looking so good.
I also like that quote from the British guy about a fearful and ignorant people are easier to control. As Hitler once said, "How good it is for the government that the people don't think."