Ford went back on H&C last night to defend his “center” strategy of the DLC which is clearly not where America is. Right wing talkie, Laura Ingraham made more sense than he did on this front.
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Ingraham;….And, not to defend the Daily Kos, when you’re constantly targeting the middle or the moderates as Harold called them…it’s pretty tough because the middle is always shifting…it’s shifting to where the left or right is more persuasive. It’s not like the moderates are an identifiable group—-identifiable positions on a number of key issues. They kinda move to either where conservatives or liberals guide them either successfully or not so…I think targeting the middle is a very risky political strategy and I’ve got to say—at least the Daily Kos people are honest with what they want.
I disagree with some of her phrasing, but she did sound much more informed than Harold. And I ask you…what the heck is the middle? Karl Rove envisioned a country that would be a one party/Republican majority for all time. Ford is completely out of touch as a Blue Dog. A memo to the DLC: I supported Harold Ford when he was running. They never responded to my email either…Bob Beckel showed his disdain for the netroots later in the segment…
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There was a time when I was ready to give this guy the benefit of a doubt. That time is past.
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Why in the world is anyone watching hannity and colmes?
Ford is a moron leading a ship of fools. The DLC is so 10 years ago. He and his sycophantic ilk have been taking it up the rear from the Rethuglicans for so long, they think it’s normal. They traded their souls and their integrity for a dullwitted strategy to win elections. Bush 41 was such a doofus, Clinton beat him, and when they served up Bob Dole Bob Dole, the Republicans were asking to get their butts whipped, just as the Dems begged for a horsewhipping when they tossed up Mondale and Dukakis for consideration.
They thought it was their “lean to the middle” strategy. IT wasn’t. It was the strength of the candidates. It’ll be the same in 2008, unless the Rethuglicans put a fix in, again. The DLC were never that important or insightful. They need to disband and get with the program. If they don’t, the USA will swing into overshoot and die-off. If you want to see your grandchildren starve to death in some transit camp in eastern Oregon, continue driving your SUVs, living in McMansions, and eating food grown 1500 miles away. Go for it. Let them die for your convenience.
Tweakerbell
It would be nice if Mr Ford actually behaved like a Democrat… He is like Zel lite. He just doesn’t get it.. Keep going on Faux News
St. Vitus @ 2:
They watch FOX so you don’t have to.
John you’re right. Ingraham actually makes sense with this one. And I also supported Ford last year and felt they used the southern strategy to defeat him once he was pulling ahead of that empty suit Corker.
In the Tennessee Senate race last year, Ford vs. Corker was like “Would you prefer to be hanged or shot?”
There are few real choices on the ballots here. Living in Tennessee can be very depressing.
Greg @ 5:
Damn! You stole my response.
Sorry to be ageist but the thing that strikes me about Ford, aside from the beltway delusions, is that he doesn’t look old enough to _be_ president, much less have a lifetime of wisdom on how to advise a party to get one elected.
The Blue Dogs seem to be the last vestiges of the conservative Democrats that didn’t get a clue in the 70s and switch parties.
The objective of the DLC is not to woo the center, but to marginalize the left and move the country to the right. All one needs to do is take a look at the money behind the DLC.
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463
The DLC and its close associate, the PPI, receive grants from many Fortune 500 companies and various right-wing foundations such as the Bradley Foundation. According to the a 2002 study by the Capital Research Center, corporate contributors to the PPI have included the AT&T Foundation, Eastman Kodak Charitable Trust, Prudential Foundation, Georgia-Pacific Foundation, Chevron, and Amoco Foundation. The Third Way Foundation, an umbrella group of the New Democrats in the DLC, receives funding from the Lynde & Harry Bradley Foundation, Howard Gilman Foundation, Ameritech Foundation, and General Mills Foundation. According to John Nichols in the Progressive, the DLC has had funding from Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, and Raytheon (Progressive, October 2000).
What is the Bradley foundation and why on earth would a far right wing foundation give money to a Democratic group? Think about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....Foundation
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/gener.....?oid=11219
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/bradley.php
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind.....Foundation
You think the Bradley foundation, or any of those corporate interests funding the DLC are interested in the fortunes of the working/middle class, the poor, minorities, civil rights and liberties and the environment? You name it, whatever the Democratic party is supposed to stand for, these folks are against it.
The only purpose of the DLC is to subvert the ability of the people to democratically use government as a tool to protect our interests from creeping oligarchy and corporate dominance.
Ye shall know them by their droppings.
And so the DLC begat Harold Ford.
(It had to be said.)
Two words for anyone who will side with a right-wing Republican harpy over a moderate, even DLC Democrat.
Roberts. Alito.
Who will Hillary nominate? Who will Mitt?
Get those coat hangers ready, kids.
There is no “middle”, that’s the real problem with that strategy. People may be “in the middle” on certain issues, but those are generally the issues they don’t care about. And like Jim Hightower said: “There’s nothing in the middle of the road but a yellow stripe and dead armadillos. “
Incidentally, Ford’s odd attempt to smear Daily Kos in the talk with Markos Moulitsas by alleging that Daily Kos was unpleasant to ‘Jewish-Americans’ was surely a thoroughly dishonest reference to the part played by Daily Kos in denying Joe Lieberman a win in that famous primary (and I suppose to the photo O’Reilly goes on about).
Of course, they understand it.
It’s the only reason Bush has won.
It’s the only reason people watch Fox.
How can the DLC not understand it by now?
You cannot win by not taking a stand!!!
You cannot win by not offending some people!!!
You cannot win by waffling!!!
You cannot win by playing all sides!!!
And you certainly cannot win by being Republican, only not as much so!!!
gummitch @ 14:
I think that’s what Ingraham was getting at in her brief moment of lucidity.
I think Ford is a paid FOX analyst…Can someone check?
This is why Obama doesn’t get to me at all.
He is playing to some phantom middle.
“The democrat party”?
Fox News is a national disgrace.
John, Google “harold ford fox news” and the firstsentence of the first article (from Fox’x site) reads as follows:
“Harold Ford, Jr. is a political contributor who will provide political commentary and analysis on international events and the 2008 election.”
He works for Fox, clearly.
Yup, she’s right…er…correct.
Ford is the old-guard of Dems; and his kind of spineless middle-of-the-road-republican light politician are the kind we progressives and liberals want out of the Democratic party.
The Dems will win elections because they will STAND FOR SOMETHING.
Yeah Harold, by all means keep going on Fox News–that will win over the Dems!!!
The whole “moderate” card is a ruse. What of these so-called “moderate” positions do the American people support? Limitless occupation of Iraq? excluding human and rights, environmental standards and labor rights from trade deals to be written by corporate interests behind closed doors? Shipping well paying American jobs overseas to cheap, unprotected labor? Allowing corporations to pollute the environment unhindered. Government spying on peaceful domestic opposition? Corporate corruption of government? The selling of our democratic system to the highest bidder? The conglomeration and concentration of our publicly owned broadcast spectrum into the hands of a few vested corporate and elite interests?
I say, none of the above!
Poor Harold Ford. Hammered by both the left and right. That’s one problem with triangulating to the middle. You wind up with no true core values and come off as wishy washy. Harold is trying so hard to please everyone, he’s pissing off everybody. This is a lesson Hillary ought to take to heart.
Ford sounds like a radical right wing operative to me.
“And I ask you… what the heck is the middle?”
I don’t know if I can answer that, but I’m pretty sure crooksandliars.com doesn’t occupy it.
Condor @ 27:
I’d they they do more so than you.
^say
That’s what happens when I’m typing in a dark room.
Tell Laura inkham that it’s the Democratic Party not the Democrat Party….
In the case of describing the DLC, Laura is probably right to call it the “Democrat” party. The DLC is nothing but contemptuous of real democracy. They exist to usurp it from the hands of the people, not to win elections.
Who the hell is this Harold Ford idiot? Maybe someone voted for him, but I didn’t, so could he kindly stop talking like he speaks for anyone but himself.
Anyone who gets so much uninterrupted face-time on Faux News cannot be a real Democrat. Murdock simply does not let anything other than rightwing bullshit go out on his ‘news’ channel.
Good God, hell must have frozen over.
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Bob Beckel showed his disdain for the netroots later.
That’s because they (media) can’t control the netroots and not having control of the dialog drives them nuts.
I don’t know.
It just seems to be another good reason to never watch this crap.
And this complaining about repubs calling it the “democrat” party is a sure fire loser. It’s thin skinned, whiny and worthy of the religious right.
Do you honestly think that’s gonna win people over to your side?
I mean, these people are perpetuating real injustice and atrocities.
whiteline @ 13:
You got that right.
Meanwhile if rich Republican girl in Utah gets raped, daddy can fly her to San Francisco for an abortion if it is outlawed in Utah. If abortion is outlawed nationally daddy can fly rich little Republican girl to a foreign country. The poor and middle class won’t find that option quite so easy. Rich Republicans are going to make sure they get theirs even if they restrict options for the rest of us.
Lovely caption underneath, “Karl Rove’s decision to resign marks the end of an era.”
I’m sure they meant “error.” Or, more accurately, “terror.”
As for Harold Ford, does he ever seriously question why he lost? If not, he better get by himself in a dark quiet room and do some in-depth soul-searching.
One of the major problems (there are several) with old weird Harold’s middle of the road premise is that you simply hand legislative victories to the right.
Legislating is like haggling over the price of something. You want to pay as little as possible (1) and the seller wants to get the maximum price (10.)
So you haggle and dicker, and end up somewhere around the middle (5.)
Under OWH’s theory, you stake out the middle. (5) But the seller still starts in the same place (10) so you end up halfway between (7.5)
Democrats should run to the left and work to persuade swing voters to follow. Then when negotiating with the GOPers in Congress and with the White House, they can compromise on something that accomplishes part of what they want.
Assuming that the Democrats gain seats in Congress and capture the White House next year, they can steamroller the GOP on every issue, or they can do what was SOP until the GOP took power - they can try to build bipartisan consensus in enacting legislation.
I certainly hope that the Democrats don’t do like the GOP and try to freeze the other side out of the political process. That’s Rovian politics.
Reich wing shill Laura says Dailykos folks don’t want a country like Laura wants. What kind of country exactly is that Laura? One saddled by record deficits? One alienated from our allies? One where endless lie based trillion dollar wars are the MO? One where torture, illegal wiretaps, lies, deceit and divisive politics are the MO of the White House? A country that as looked at as as a bully, not a beacon of democracy and freedom by much of the world? Correction Laura, that is what you, the GOP, the anti-America FOX News viewers and Australian douche bag Ruppert Murdoch want for this country. Not kos people.
Sorry to say, at this point Republicans win in 2008.
The people from the Democrats that turn up on these shows are just unconvincing little punching bags…
Jim @ 20:
Worse than a disgrace. A Reich wing propaganda organization that is a threat America.
Here is a perfectly observed article by George Lakoff of “Don’t think of an Elephant” fame. His take on “centrism” is that there is no “center,” nor are there centrists. You have total conservatives and total progressives as well as what he calls “biconceptuals”: progressive on certain issues and conservative on others.
Progressives, according to Lakoff, have to speak to these groups using the issues where they share the same values. In contrast to the DLC types, which try to split the difference, and end up looking like the spineless opportunists that they are.
Link follows. Highly recommended.
http://www.buzzflash.com/artic.....utors/1237
Some people wonder why Harold lost. Wrong question. The DLC is designed to lose while giving the illusion of democratic representation and a multi-party system.
Mug @ 40:
I hope to God no democrat leaning voter thinks Fox is ‘fair and balanced’ or watches it other than to remind themselves why they lean democrat in the first place. As such, anyone who watches it seriously deserves to diagf & will surely be naturally deselected. Pity evolution takes so long.
American Macaca @ 43:
I saw the Lakoff article earlier, but I think it misses the real point of the so-called “moderate” stance of the DLC and what it’s meant to achieve. It isn’t about winning elections for democrats. Politics is about ideology, it’s not a sport where you are just trying to win and have no constituency with economic interests. As we have seen in the last two decades, the DLC is remarkable mostly for its ability to lose elections for Democrats. Mostly they attack principled and ethical Democrats in the Democratic party and collapse in the face of Republicans. That’s what the organization is designed to do.
Take a look at my comment @11, check the links and see if you don’t agree that there is more to the DLC than meets the eye.
It’s hardly original, but I’ve long been convinced the DLC is a GOP front, created to infiltrate and corrupt the democratic party. An eminently successful one, too.
Laura is still a boob. Her argument is so typically repug, cut and dry, black or white. If they don’t count in numbers, why bother with them? Although I can’t think of one thing I like about repugs or their stance, there are still things I don’t like about the dems. Basically moderates are neither repug or dem.
For instance, if this blog brings up anything ethic, especially about African-Americans some so-called progressive and/or democratic people tend to let their conservative slips show.
As others have noted–something about Harold Ford really made me uncomfortable during the 2006 election campaign. To be blunt he really comes across as a phony. It gave me the creeps to hear him use the phrase “I daresay” on Meet the Press yesterday and lo and behold it pops up again in this clip. Maybe smchris’s comment (#9) has something to do with it. I gather that Ford hasn’t really had much of a life outside of politics (the family business) and maybe in an attempt to sound older and more learned he has adopted this affected manner of speaking. Listening to him I feel like I’m being spoken to by some salesman whose shtick isn’t nearly as smooth as he thinks it is. The other thing that upsets me about this “centrist” strategy is that it seems so motivated by fear. “oh my god if we’re not carefull…” Goddamnit speak up!, be strong!