MoveOn’s ad questioning Gen. Petraeus’s credibility was certainly the talk of the town yesterday. Leave it to Chris Matthews on Hardball to get right to the bottom of it by conducting one of the most frustrating interviews ever of MoveOn’s Eli Pariser and DailyKos’s Markos Moulitsas. Is he just congenitally unable to let people finish their answers uninterrupted?
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Markos puts questions of the ad’s appropriateness into perspective:
To me, you know, way out in California, it’s almost amusing to see how in Washington DC, everybody is all up in arms over an ad. You know, we’re in the middle of this bloody war, almost 4,000 dead, half a trillion dollars spent, and people are going to talk about how inappropriate an ad is? I think it’s patently ridiculous. And most people, outside of this sort of Beltway environment really don’t care about an ad. They want to see our men and women coming home, safe and sound to their families.
Markos also lands some solid jabs at the recalcitrance of the Democrats to play a stronger role in bringing an end to the war.
Ezra Klein and Jeffrey Feldman weigh in on the Republican politics of distraction.
6 Trackbacks To “Hardball: The question of credibility“
Usurping the “F”
Moulitsas is dead on here. We the people are trying to talk about a war that has killed probably three quarters of a million people. The powers that be are trying to distract us with nonsense about the “appropriateness” of a God damned newspaper ad. The media should spend their time discussing how appropriate it was for them to collude with the administration in selling us this war, and now the so called surge. They play these games to manipulate us into missing the real point. We’re talking about thousands of dead people because the President isn’t man enough to admit a mistake, and the congress isn’t brave enough to do what they were elected to do.
Killing and dying, that is only about human beings. But political advertising denouncing those who love waging war for profit, why that is sacrilege against the hallowed corporate structure.
The ad sounds like something I would expect from an 8th grader, the repugnacan reaction to the ad is what I would expect from a 2nd grader.
More than a million people have died as a direct result of Bush’s war.
I’m not aware of any battles that General Westmoreland Petraeus has fought in. What battles are McCain referring to?
It’s the new journalism.
Chris Matthews is such a cock knuckle.
“Don’t you think the General is a shit eating, baby molesting, cat rapist, asshole?”
Just typical right-wing tactics…try to deflect attention from the real issue (Iraq) onto a non-issue (an ad)…nobody’s falling for it anymore.
Why doesn’t someone point out W’s personal stake in this war?
He stands to make a lot of dough in the future by speaking to wingnuts, but only if he keeps the war going thoughout his presidency. If he saw the light and bailed on his war, he wouldn’t get a dime from these groups.
They want him to remain the wanker that he is, because they need to be wanked into perpetuity.
Mathews is channeling Bill O in this. he is so angry in this interview at moveon
Why do they never see the hypocrisy of their actions? Demanding an apology from the democrats for an ad that they had nothing to do with while NEVER apologizing for anthing THEY do?
OT I saw Hagel slamming Betrayus in the hearings this morning. Heard there were tougher questions being asked today. Guess thats why its not on all channels like yesterday. Damn liberal media.
Speaking of democrats playing a stronger hand…
They’re now backing away from citing Meiers and Bolten for contempt. Shrewd move, chickenshits:
http://www.politico.com/news/s...../5750.html
The money quote from that quivering tower of crap, Rahm:
“I don’t think anything is going to happen on that for a while,” said House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (Chickenshit, Ill.).
Wouldn’t be prudent.
Nice work, Markos. Hit a lot of points there.
Why didn’t Pariser correct Tweety’s idiotic assertion that the ‘betrayal’ he was punning on wasn’t treason - consorting with the enemy - but simply a betrayal of trust vis-Ă -vis the public, who have every right to expect him to testify honestly about the success or failure of the policy they are bankrolling (both in blood and resources). No one said he was working with al-Qaeda.
Typical of Kerry to play it safe. Weasel.
tweety’s all over the map on this …
suck up to Markos
but paint Eli as pinging the needle all the way over on the kook scale
Going into 2008, the Repubs know their tenuous position, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to give up. The next six months will see an increasing amount of time devoted to MediaMatters, KOS, Huffington, and yes C&L et al. There will be an increasing number of posters decrying the Democrats as spineless, ineffective, and trivial. There will also be many more Repubs switching hats, and running as Dems. They have to do these things, what else have they got?
I thought their responses were dead on, the only thing I didn’t like hearing was Kos saying everyone has given up. It’s a change in strategy that we are wanting. We’re not giving up on the troops or our effort to stop terrorism — the only thing I can see people giving up on is this administration. I wish he would have been more clear as to not fall prey to the misused sound bite.
Of course they’re pissed about the ad. They’ve spent the last six months trying to create an image for Petraeus as some great military mind whose conclusions should be beyond reproach. They tried to give him an aire of infallibility. Naturally, they don’t mention he was in charge of training the Iraqi troops who were going to stand up so we could stand down. Nor, do they mention the missing 200,000 weapons while he was in command. Petraeus is a tool just like Powell. Too much hard work has gone into image creation to have it jeopardized by the truth.
personally i think it is glaringly obvious–
patraeus is serving at the direction of the white house. he is simply following orders to present an obvious spin on what is happening in iraq. his ‘prestige’ is on the line, and the white house has cornered him into giving a glowing account of the change in tactics. (why do people keep calling it a strategic change, anyway?), which has failed. he and bush are in the same basket and have to support each other in order to save face (not that bush has “face” left). in all, the white house has treated him like a pet gerbil.
the statistics are skewed and misleading. the GOAL of the surge has failed. and yet patreaus says “the surge is working” and every MSM news model is quick to report what? ah yes, the surge is working. the news media has learned nothing from its failures.
to me he has proven to be GOPatraeus.
and, from the waaaay back machine, here is gen petraeus from a wash post oped (notice that this was right before the ‘04 election. coincidence? i think not):
“Now, however, 18 months after entering Iraq, I see tangible progress. Iraqi security elements are being rebuilt from the ground up.
The institutions that oversee them are being reestablished from the top down. And Iraqi leaders are stepping forward, leading their country and their security forces courageously in the face of an enemy that has shown a willingness to do anything to disrupt the establishment of the new Iraq.”
3 years ago petraeus “saw” progress. tangible progress, nonetheless. and now he tells us the “surge is working.” does michael gerson write patreaus’ propaganda?
WASHINGTON - September 10 - Rev. Lennox Yearwood, Jr., president of the Hip Hop Caucus, was attacked by six capitol police today, when he was stopped from entering the Cannon Caucus Room on Capitol Hill, where General Petreaus gave testimony today to a joint hearing for the House Arms Services Committee and Foreign Relations Committee on the war in Iraq.
After waiting in line throughout the morning for the hearing that was scheduled to start at 12:30pm, Rev. Yearwood was stopped from entering the room, while others behind him were allowed to enter. He told the officers blocking his ability to enter the room, that he was waiting in line with everyone else and had the right to enter as well. When they threatened him with arrest he responded with “I will not be arrested today.” According to witnesses, six capitol police, without warning, “football tackled” him. He was carried off in a wheel chair by DC Fire and Emergency to George Washington Hospital.
Rev. Yearwood said as he was being released from the hospital to be taken to central booking, “The officers decided I was not going to get in Gen. Petreaus’ hearing when they saw my button, which says ‘I LOVE THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ.’”
Capitol Police are not saying what the charges are, but an inside source has said that the charge is assaulting a police officer. Rev. Yearwood is scheduled to be transferred to Central Processing to be arraigned tomorrow morning.
The incident was recorded by an observer and is available on YouTube WhyNotNews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiradc…
For further information contact: Liz Havstad at liz@hiphopcaucus.org or 510-206-6749.
Bit NOLA @ 10:
Somebody made a good point about W pulling out of Iraq. They said if he did, the 30% dead-enders would still support him and I believe that’s true. They’re sold on W no matter what he does. If he did pull out, they’d still worship him and criticize us for still not following him when he did what we wanted. Of course, they’d be deaf to the issue that we lost thousands for nothing, but that’s wingnut mentality for you.
They’re not Republicans. They’re not conservatives. They’re Bushites.
dasein @ 17:
Wrong.
Hardball is breaking the formula! Don’t they know they are supposed to have someone from the extreme left and someone from the extreme right? Only then can we get the bickering and overtalking that is “NEWS” today.
Rep Bohner (read boner) is going to introduce a resolution in the house to say that the Dems do not support that ad. :roll:
I saw this on the C-span crawl today.
pissed off patricia @ 25:
Why would Boner do that?
Tweety wasn’t as bad with this interruptions as he usually is. But you’re right; it’s very frustrating to watch/listen to one of his shows. You want to slap him to make him shut up.
On a personal note, I’m always glad to see someone poke the right in the ribs and make them jump and shout. I would not have run the ad myself, but I’m not sorry that Moveon did.
Dr. Acula @ 26:
To show their solidarity with the Republican Party. they are putting aside partisan differences and issues and coming together by adopting Republican ideals.
What’s wrong with some of you people? Didn’t actually listen? Matthews not only got both of these guys on TV but they made there cases and he agreed with them. He asked perfectly reasonable questions about reactions to the ad. Mathhews clearly hates Bush’s war. He didn’t always but he does now. It is so typical of the left, of which I am a part, to spend more time fighting with the people who don’t EXACTLY agree with them than the ones on the completely opposite side.
Taarak @ 16:
They have to set up the narrative. The minute Kos endorses a candidate, Bill O’Reilly will jump all over it and let his viewers know. I have a feeling that he waged his little battles with Daily Kos and Media Matters to plant a seed in their peabrains.
Dr. Acula @ 26:
distract from the obvious spin emanting from the patraeus/crocker cheerleading section.
also, try to put dems in a spot where they either agree with moveon (which the GOpigs will spin–inaccurately–as anti-military), or they disagree allowing the repubs and the MSM to portray patraeus as even more of a god than they already do.
The ad was successful. It got the attention of the media and has the reich-wing howling. It doesn’t get any better than that. Congrats Eli!
lvogt @ 29:
I have to agree here, the interview I just watched was entirely supportive, and helped both of them look more confident and sure of their answers. Explanations were good and not oversimplified, I call it a win, lets agree and move on.
Funny how the war whores bleat about remembering the 3000 people who lost their lives on 9-11, but when you mention that over 3000 have now died in Iraq, they respond it’s only a number.
It’s pretty bad when your military leaders are considered to be part of the spin machine. And once they become part of that monster, I say that any general becomes fair game. It is interesting that the good general went straight to FOX to remake his spin appeal. Gen. Petraeus could have done a news conference at the Pentagon broadcasted on CSPAN and fielded question from all the press.
In a democracy, the military is a professional class that reports the facts on the ground with transparency toward a stated goal. Petraeus’s numbers are consider beyond review; hence, they are not transparent. Critical minds will treat the reported facts with suspicion. Also, the stated goal of this military misadventure is in constant flux and changes with the seasons — election cycles that is.
Also, Sen. Kerry should have kept his opinions to himself. The poor soul just can’t keep his mouth shut; especially, when he appears not to really know what the details are. Kerry fell in line with the usual Beltway glossarrhea that hits Demo politicians when television cameras are suddenly jabbed in their faces and they are asked about any issues of national security. You know the spiel - “Ah well, what are the conservative pundits saying and I kinda agree to agree with them.” (And to reminisce when I held a campaign sign for him in 2004.)
I don’t know why the hell boner would do it. He’s falling into the trap the repubs set yesterday. They tried to put moveon and all dems in the same boat. Rather than ignore their little trick, he fell for it.
sundog @ 35:
Yup, once the General went on Fox he pretty much crossed the Rubicon.
Petraeus’ Bio
Though he is Ranger-qualified, I can’t tell how much of his career is at the ’sharp end,’ i.e., in the field with the grunts.
At the end Matthews nicknames Markos “Archimedes”.
Not bad!
Kos should have his own show. Enough of the retreads like Abrams and Carlson who have failed time after time in the ratings books
jr @ 41:
They could call it The Daily Kos Show!
I question that the question of crediblity is a credible question.
How about giving Eli his own show. The guy is so good at what he does.
pissed off patricia @ 36:
I haven’t read about this; I must be missing something since Boner is a rethug. Sorry if I’m being obtuse.
Surging with no end in sight. Gee whiz, silly me — I believed Busholini when he said the surge was “temporary”.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITI.....index.html
Marko’s best point was that the troop reduction being touted is a requirement due to tour rotation, not anything to do with conditions on the ground.
The DC lawyers are chasing the ads because that’s their excuse to chase funding. The GOP lawyers have no legal defense to war crimes: Their only hope is to change the issue from crimes to political funding.
Lawyers aren’t defending the Constitution. They’re defending their “right” to have unfettered access to influence legislation without oversight. They can’t win a war; but they’ll defend their right to bribe. Let’s have a war crimes trial. Target the legal counsel complicit with these violations.