Sen. Hagel on Real Time: Petraeus Dog and Pony Show "Dishonest, Hypocritical, Dangerous and Irresponsible"
By SilentPatriot Saturday Sep 15, 2007 9:38am
Nebraska Senator Chuck Hagel appeared on "Real Time" last night and had some tough words for the White House for "sending a military man to do a political job." Hagel also noted that the "Iraq war is biggest mistake in US history."
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Maher: Isn't a dirty trick on the American people when you send a military man out there to basically do a political sell-job?"
Hagel: It's not only a dirty trick, but it's dishonest, it's hypocritical, it's dangerous and irresponsible. The fact is this is not Petraeus' policy, it's the Bush's policy. The military is -- certainly very clear in the Constitution -- is subservient to the elected public officials of this country.. but to put our military in a position that this administration has put them in is just wrong, and it's dangerous."
Hagel's responses to Bill's questions were perhaps his strongest condemnation of the White House and this war yet. The truth is that President Bush had no choice but to make Petraeus the poster boy of The Surge; after years and years of misleading this country, his credibility is at zero and he needs someone with a seemingly objective and non-partisan record to do the political dirty work of selling the surge continuing the occupation. Absolutely shameful. As Hagel makes perfectly clear, the Republican Party will pay dearly for it.
That's all very fine, but I'm waiting to see if he will vote with the Dems when it comes to withdrawal, funding, etc.
I strongly encourage all to read "Impeach or it's Armageddon". A very compelling case that an attack on IRAN is coming within 6 months. Every politician who voted to give the President authority to go into Iraq is responsible if this happens.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/16/05110/6920
Not only is it shameful, it is dangerous. The military has a very important part to play under our constitution, but getting generals involved in this political situation brings us close to being a banana republic.
The Bush administration has politicized everything, now even including the military.
Retirement has its benefits. Chuck ain't runnin' again. Wonder who the machines will choose to take his seat...
Maher "Do you think the Republican Party has been hijacked by incompetents and religious fanatics"
Hagel: "I think it has been hijacked by incompetents"
Note to Maher. Don't ask a senator who was rated 100% by the Christian Coalition http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Chuck_Hagel.htm if he thinks his party was hijacked by religious fanatics. Hagel IS a religious fanatic and he was one of the hijackers. Were it not for Bush's war the religious fanatics might still control congress and that is what really chafes Hagel's ass is that because of Bush the Christian fanatics like himself don't control congress.
Mike.Net @ 1:
Exactly. Like I'm going to pay any attention whatsoever to some Republican fool/tool. These miserable liars are starting to sweat now that Mr. Decider's excellent adventure is seen for what it is:
A total failure.
My advice to Senator Hagel is, 'Shut the Fuck up until your caucus helps stop the crazed loon in the White House.'
Better yet just STFU period.
Petraeus is just like a used car salesman trying to sell you a lemon. The lemon of course, being Bush's latest failed Iraq policy. Bush is just using and hiding behind his best and most credible salesman that he has left (I.E. Petraeus). Don't let the shiney medals and military uniform fool you. A lemon is always a lemon no matter who the pitchman is.
Here's Bush's real plan to save the GOP: Withdrawing 30,000 Republicans from Public Restrooms.
Don't buy this latest lemon the Bush Administration has put on display. Petraeus is just a pitchman. He is no different than any used car salesman out there looking for a sucker.
If the GOP will indeed pay dearly for this dog and pony show, then I will impatiently await my check in the mail....I don't see it ever coming though as the water carriers STILL continue doing their thing. I'm all for giving someone enough rope to hang themself, but in my mind, the Dems are running out of rope, and this is something I never thought I'd say.
Damn!! Why cant these rethug tools open their mouths before its too late??!!!
powell, greenspan and now hagel. All rethugs and all tell the truth WHEN ITS TOO F**KING LATE!! Im totally impressed with all of your loyalty to this country; after the fact!! you all should burn in hell for not speaking out when it might have done some good!! Its just too damned bad that you open your mealymouths when you have nothing to lose or want to profit from a book!
SHAME, SHAME ON YOU ALL!! YOU DISGUST ME!!
The general is being dishonest as well. It was quoted in the UK's Independent on that he expressed long-term interest in running for president. No one in the US media seems to be paying attention.
"Petraeus Dog and Pony Show “Dishonest, Hypocritical, Dangerous and Irresponsible”"
You think?
Why the Bush Administration thinks this latest policy will sell is beyond me. Of course, the 25% that still support Bush's policies will buy anything. Those of us who know a used car salesman (I.E. Petraeus) looking to sell a lemon to a sucker know one when we see one.
While I might not state it as forcefully as previous posts, I am wary of most Republicans(and some Dems) saying they want out. Until I see Republicans pressure Bush directly, and vote to bring the troops home, its all just empty words to me.
To Congress: Enough with the limp fish handshake guys, lets get it done please. Enough is enough.
Mike.Net @ 1:
Yeah, he's said that he intends to cooperate with Senate Democrats on a withdrawal bill....will he do it? Dunno.
Yeah, the White House trotted out Patraeus with a chest full of medals to face Congress knowing that he would be treated with kid gloves because of his dedicated military service. Neither Bush or any of his direct henchmen had the nerve to testify.
Hagel is a lunatic on every other subject except Iraq and I'll be happy to see him go.
Still, he's been a consistent critic of the war and deserves props for it.
The real criticism and show of disdain by Sen. Hagel is shown in his refusal to address both Gen. Petraeus & Pres. Bush by their official titles.
Imagine if Tony Blair referred to the Queen as "Liz"? Same thing and so refreshing to get the precise level of feelings Hagel has for his leader.
This man is leaving politics but will be back.....maybe as a Dem in 2 years.
"That’s all very fine, but I’m waiting to see if he will vote with the Dems when it comes to withdrawal, funding, etc."
Well, let's just see how many Dems support Dems when it comes to withdrawal and the cutting of funds. Hagel's words will serve as a special little poison for all of those Republican war supporters. That's a very good thing.
Yet, when Hagel was given opportunities to put his vote where his mouth was, he chose to continue Bush's occupation of Iraq. The sooner Hagel leaves the Senate to go sell shoes, the better.
Keep making these military guys political and before you know it one of them will think coup is not a bad idea then we truly will be a banana republic
konchster @ 19:
Petraeus wants to run for president in 2012. He is already political.
RE: The infamous Move On Ad
Would someone please explain to me why the General should be immune from political attacks when he is clearly performing a political function for the Resident?
Missouri's Harry Truman said it best,"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
Based on the assertion, said with a straight face, the John Kerry shot himself in Viet Nam because he knew that he would be running for President some time in the future, I say that anyone in a uniform is fair game. Especially when they place themselves in the political hot seat. The notion that they "should not be attacked because of their service" is ridiculous and dishonest.
Please post video of Maher's interview with Robert Draper, who wrote the new Bush bio. Very revealing.
What you are watching is not a few top repubicuns having an awakening, but the rebirth of the republicun party as they believe they can sell it to the American public.
Smoke and mirrors, bullshit piled on bullshit, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
It is not all that long to wait (for the election) before we see how many republicuns, ex-republicuns, and flag waiving cheerleaders have really become conscious to what the party stands for. The numbers are all that matter, and if there is one public that can be tricked into voting for the "new republicuns" that would be the American public.
Hagel's right, Iraq is definetely a huge mistake, but not as big as letting the republican mafia steal the 2000 election.
A.Citizen @ 6:
You'd probably be better off if you took your own advice. If you did STFU, you might not appear totally ignorant of the fact that Hagel has been a critic of the war since before the invasion.
But Billy, this admin lies about the war, but with 9/11, they are being 100% honest!!
You lost me Billy. You can't take down only the bottom part of a wall...
Toes @ 21:
So, you're basically saying that Swiftboat operations are OK so long as they are smearing and lying about people you don't like? That engaging in such reprehensible tactics are OK because "the other side does it"? That no word or deed is too low so long as it is for your glorious party? If the answer to any of these is yes, you're no better than the worst Bush zombie Republican.
Godfry Daniel @ 24:
You're absolutely right. And the GOP's biggest mistake (hard to pinpoint among so many absolutely huge mistakes) was letting Rove steal the Republican Primary in 2000.
Republicans won't pay for it, the military will. Just like during Vietnam. The institution suffering the worst loss of public confidence was our armed forces. It took decades to restore the American people's faith in its military.
This is why I'm incensed at Petraeus. He's smart enough to know he's being played, but his own aspirations for greatness overrode defending the institution he has served the last 30 years, the U.S. Army.
Admiral Fallon must have made it clear he wouldn't whore himself out as Bush's poster child.
And if the rumors are right about what he said to Petraeus (calling him a chicken shit) Petraeus' conduct this past week proved him right.
Bush has no credibility. Congress has little credibility. Thanks to Petraeus the military has less.
Nothing will be done until the American People pull together and start demonstrating in masses outside the White House and marching in the streets of our cities. That of course won't happen. There are too many who are scared of this piss poor excuse for a government. That's why our 'elected' officials can so easily get by with blatantly ignoring the voices of their constituents. That's all part of the plan. It's O.K. if the people hate you, as long as they fear you. As long as that fear factor is there, We as a People are not citizens, but servants of the State.
Nice to see a neocon admitt Booosh screwed up....But he's still a neocon........
Hagel sucks but today on MTP McCain showed what complete denial of reality looks like.
He believes that but saying success, success, succcess enough times in every sentence we can myteriously makes it true.
He's clicking his heels together like Dorothy in Wizard of Oz, pretending we can all go back to Kansas if we just believe hard enough.
Why can't the Democrats talk like that?
I remember this and it may have something to do with how hagel votes in regard to the war and ultimately why he is retiring.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/02/capitol_getting.html
This was before a big vote about the war.
After this, they all sided with the prez. ugh.
marcos @ 27:
Perhaps Toes means ....since the repugs have been practicing this tactic for so long now..decades...They should be able to take it.....I do agree that this type of political discourse is not serving the country well..in fact it's destroying the country from the inside out.....But I do find it odd that the repugs reject their own tactics.
Not incompetent! Bush & Co. are doing a good job wrecking the government and replacing it with corporate power and privilege. The pro-corporate plan is working! Hegel is wrong. It takes more than a sound bite to take back your party and if you can't see what is wrong, you can't begin to fix it. Ditto for elitist Dems. Not working because it's wrong. P.S. Reagan was the borrow and spender, Sen. Hegel.
JOHN EDWARDS: Our troops are stuck between a president without a plan to succeed and a congress without the courage to bring them home.
Does anyone know when 5S General Fallon (Patraeuss' Boss) is going to do that interview with Time and MSNBC? He was really pissed when I saw the short blurb about Patraeus being a "chickensh*t boot-licker". I sure would like to be a fly on the wall when those tow see each other.
chlorocardium @ 4:
Hagel is full of shit. He's a lying asshole who is knee deep in election fraud. Goodbye Chuckie, and while you're at it........go fuck yourself.
marcos @ 27:
Ummm...no.
He's just saying that because a guy wears the uniform doesn't mean that he can't be criticized.
I say that as a veteran. I also say fuck Oliver North.
The minute you start selling out your own country, your citizens don't owe you anything other than scorn. Hide behind the stars. Hide behind the medals. Hide behind the uniform. You're still a traitor.
wolf blitzer would suck off a neocon with a highly contagious social disease to get bushes nuts out of the fire, what a douchbag !
Yoo Hoo! General Betrayus!
and yes....there was a massive demonstarion in washington dc...but was it covered here at C&L???
the answer is NO!
It didnt get any much needed publicity!
tyree @ 38:
Yeah, his name means something like Wolf Lightning ... but there isn't much spark in him for going after the truth.
Jerry @ 29:
Too many are scared? You should start doing stand up. No, the real reason is that most of us are apathetic if something doesn't have an immediate impact on our lives. If there was a draft, then you'd see mass protest. If gasoline jumped to $10/gallon there'd be rioting in the streets.
And for those that aren't apathetic, it's too easy to just put most of one's effort into posting comments on blogs to register one's discontent, instead of making a sign and going down to the street corner and waving it around. The internet has become the equivalent of yelling at you TV.
mudshark @ 34:
I just carefully read the entire ad word for word and i can see no comparison to swift boating.
Rosanne @ 9:
I couldn't agree more. In a way, I actually have more respect for the idiot true-believers, like Doug Feith. At least he was actually moronic enough to believe the crap he was peddling, on some level. These guys who come out after the fact and essentially say, 'yeah-- I knew it was a pending disaster built on bullshit all along' really piss me off. They knew what it would be, what decided not to do anything when it might've actually made a difference.
tyree @ 38:
Wolfe was trying to get Cuba's 3rd highest official to endorse Hillary and Obama. I am yelling at the TV, "It doesm't matter who the guy likes. He doesn't vote."
Rock-ribbed righty, wrong on almost every issue but Iraq, dead right about Iraq, and who has worked with the Democrats to get us out of Iraq. In some ways, it is quite the shame to see a Republican with integrity go, especially give how few of them there are in Congress. And it would be a bigger shame if Bob Kerry weren't able to pick up this seat, as it would mean that Nebraskans would probably vote for a GOP Senator who would toe the party line on everything! For us, that would be a definite minus.
Isn't it amazing that around 550 BC a Greek politician named Aristagoras jovially pointed out "War fever was an intoxication to which democracies appeared peculiarly prone." Nuthin much has changed.
xoites defends Constitution @ 43:
Having just read the article too.......There is no way they can claim this is like what happened to Kerry(swiftboating)that remains an alltime low.
Good morning, Muddy!
Yeah, you make a fair point. We Republicans are pretty disappointing when it comes to showing a little intestinal fortitude when under fire.
But I beg for a little understanding. I'm working hard to wrap my little brain around the concept of voting for Hillary next year. Choosing between Hillary and any of the GOP candidates is sort of like choosing what diameter dildo you want to get reamed with. I guess the most positive thing I can think of is that at least Bill will be there and part of the team. In this analogy, Bill represents the lube, I guess.
leftie @ 40:
Not entirely correct. They did advertise it here several times. I was there yesterday. Whereas there weren't anywhere near the 100,000 that ANSWER claimed to have showed, there were indeed at least 10,000 on the street during the march. And this was the first of many to come.
oh ...thanks for the link X
You're welcome.
mudshark @ 47:
So, the defense is that it's not as bad?
marcos @ 48:
Lets just say.....HC's would be more flexible
marcos @ 48:
What kills me about your statement is that Hillary has been pushed in our face as a foregone conclusion for two years now. Why have we been taken out of the political process and why do we pretend that we haven't?
A.Citizen @ 6:
Hagel has already voted with the dems several times on Iraq, and worked hand in hand with democratic senators on several resolutions. Why not give the man his due (or, if you do not have the facts, just keep quiet)?
marcos @ 51:
Have you read the article?.....read it.And compare it to what happened to Kerry
Hey, I think it is a foregone conclusion by now, unfortunately. I'd even rather have that commie guy with the hot wife than Hillary. But I'd rather have Hil than any of the GOP frontrunners.
marcos @ 51:
No, the ARGUMENT is that the swiftboaters lied and smeared John Kerry. Move on is telling the truth and pointing out a lie. Can you tell the difference?
Oh, it's no where near as egregious, Muddy. So I'm willing to call it Swiftboat Lite, if that'll make you happier. It's still a distortion.
Uh-oh, he invoked FDR's name as a comparison to bush's spending excess, "at least FDR had an excuse." Next thing you know, the GOP will be calling for Hagel to be burned at the stake as a heretic.
Isaac @37,
Amen to that.
marcos @ 57:
Would you PLEASE point out the distortion?
xoites, moveon is distorting the facts rather than telling outright lies. So, yes, I can tell the difference.
Anyway, we're not going to come to an agreement on this this morning, of that I am sure. I've got a shit load to do today. =/ It'd be more fun to argue shit with you and muddy. Both of you have an excellent day!
Marcos....xoites...has got you cornered......you can't win in this debate.......but do try.....it's entertaining.
marcos @ 60:
Again, i ask: Which facts are being distorted? If you can't point to them YOU are distorting the facts by IMPLYING someone else is withouth backing up your statement with even a direct reference.
Marcos could get a job at swiftboat.sham
fafnnir @ 18:
Not true. He took these opportunities several times (check his voting record this year, easy to find), and started being very critical of the war a while back, long before it became cool for many to do so, and a time when many democrats including presidential candidates were still extremely cautious. The man is a conservative (not a religious fanatic by the way, as somebody else here has said), and I disagree with most of his views on anything but Iraq. But I respect his right to have these views, and I respect him.
Even the MSM is saying that Gen Petreaus has his facts wrong.......
wil rudy run an ad against this republican senator asking for an apology to the general. hell no. do repubes even hear the republicans speaking out. hell no. blame the dems blame the dems. evil ad ecil ad. that is all they hear and want the public to see. dont look behing the curtain.
marcos @ 60:
Talk about Cut and Run...
fafnnir @ 18:
What you say is just NOT TRUE. Why don't you check your facts before stating something? This is so discouraging, really. If liberals, as I assume most people here would describe themselves, cannot listen to people that are not 100% on the same side, and instead throw out unsubstantiated insults, we are better than the intolerant right lunatics!
defending the indefensible......well......
powell, greenspan and now hagel. All rethugs and all tell the truth WHEN ITS TOO F**KING LATE!!
Well, I'll give you Powell and Greenspan, But although I disagree with Hagel on other issues, He HAS BEEN CONSISTENT in his fervent opposition to the Iraq war, and I respect the hell out of him for that. Some of the comments he has made about the Iraq war were more compelling than those coming from the spineless "opposition party" democrats who have run away from this issue for fear of loosing thier seats in congress. I wish the democrats would be willing to sacrifice as much as the troops in Iraq and Afganistan (i.e. everything). If they were courageous enough to do so we would have Impeachment BACK ON THE TABLE (this means you spineless Nancy) and the FUNDING FOR THE BUSH WAR IN IRAQ CUT THE F*#K OFF!! SHEEESH!
Ruthless People @ 5:
exactly! just because he's against the war doesn't make him a good person. if you have any doubts about that, look at ron paul's platform. despicable.
marcos @ 25:
Thanks for the sanity :-)!
mudshark @ 30:
Not a neocon, a conservative. Two very different species. Neocons are lying scum, conservatives can be honorable people.
"I want my party back!!"????
Motherfuckers, you GOT the Republican party you deserve, so FUCK YOU, every last one of you family values, kill em' all, intolerant, fear-mongering jingoist assholes. Fuck you!
Azor @ 72:
hagel is not an honorable person. look at his voting record... doesn't matter how you classify him.
Azor @ 72:
Having reviewed his voting record....I would call him a neocon....Just because he is speaking out against the war NOW......doesn't change his voting record.
marcos @ 42:
Yes I do carry a placard along with a small group that assembles at least three times a week, sometimes more, early in the mornings. Yes People are scared. Most won't admit it, but they are. That's why the WarPigs play the fear card as often as they do, because it works. The ones that are scared are always the ones who yell at us, call us names and go out of their way to argue with us. Our little group is getting bigger though.
So, this is what even Bush has admitted about how the surge is (not) working to accomplish the 18 benchmarks of success. Let's take a look at which ones weren't so successful and what that tells us about how things are going...
1) Unfortunately, reducing the level of sectarian violence in Iraq and eliminating militia control of local security DID NOT HAPPEN.
2) Unfortunately, Iraq failed to enact and implement legislation establishing a strong militia disarmament program to ensure that such security forces are accountable only to the central government and loyal to the constitution of Iraq.
3) Unfortunately, the Iraqi Security Forces are not providing evenhanded enforcement of the law.
4) Unfortunately, the number of Iraqi Security Forces units capable of operating independently did not increase (which may not be such a bad thing, see #3).
5) Unfortunately, Iraq's political authorities are still undermining or making false accusations against members of the Iraqi Security Forces.
6) Unfortunately, enacting and implementing legislation establishing an Independent High Electoral Commission, provincial elections law, provincial council authorities, and a date for provincial elections, DID NOT HAPPEN.
7) Unfortunately, providing Iraqi commanders with all authorities to execute this plan and to make tactical and operational decisions, in consultation with U.S commanders, without political intervention, to include the authority to pursue all extremists, including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias, DID NOT HAPPEN.
8) Unfortunately, enacting and implementing legislation to ensure the equitable distribution of hydrocarbon resources (why don't they just say OIL revenues?) of the people of Iraq without regard to the sect or ethnicity of recipients, and enacting and implementing legislation to ensure that the energy resources of Iraq benefit Sunni Arabs, Shia Arabs, Kurds, and other Iraqi citizens in an equitable manner, IS NOT HAPPENING.
Seems to me, the surge has been less than effective in bringing Iraq any closer to political reconciliation, which is what even Bush admits need to occur for us to "win the peace" in Iraq. Enjoying your breakfast this morning, Mr. Bush?
With all of the laurels being heaped on Petreaus, about what a great Americam he is and his great service in the military I keep thinking...what rank did Benedict Arnold hold during the revolution?
Why I think he was a general.
Hi, My name's Chuck Hagel, I'm really just another scumbag conservative trying to cover my political tracks playing 'paint the weasel' at a time when there's a lot a of paint and a huge weasel.
Chuck Hagel's voting record:
Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Rated 87% by the US COC, indicating a pro-business voting record. (Dec 2003)
Voted NO on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Rated 0% by the LCV, indicating anti-environment votes. (Dec 2003)
CYA Chuck, CY effing A
mudshark @ 75:
Well... I do not know, to be honest I find it neocon difficult to define properly. In my mind it implies being blinded by ideology, whihc IMHO Hagel is not. His votes often make me cringe, because I confess I like the man. But he has a mind of his own, has voted against party line on other issues besides Iraq (Medicare bill for instance), and is willing to cooperate across the isle on substantial issues.
As for speaking against the war now: he started speaking against for several years. Compare his pre-IWR speech (yes, I know, he voted FOR it in the end) to say the one Clinotn gave. Sorry, no links handy.
One Year Wonder @ 79:
You seem to know that Hagel is retiring from the Senate, right? In which case, what political tracks are you exactly referring to?