Hardball: The Assault On Free Speech In America
By Logan Murphy Tuesday Sep 18, 2007 11:45am
On Tuesday's Hardball, Joe Conason from The New York Observer and Medea Benjamin, co-founder of Code Pink had a lot to say about Monday's controversial tasering of a University of Florida student and go in depth about the state of free speech, or lack thereof, in America today. The discussion of free speech zones and political expression took an interesting turn when Benjamin claimed to have been pulled out out of a Hillary Clinton rally for wearing a shirt that read "Troops. Home. Now."
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Benjamin: "I got pulled out of a Hillary Clinton rally for wearing this shirt."
Matthews: "No."
Benjamin: "Yes."
Matthews: "Pulled out of the rally --
Benjamin: "Pulled out of the rally."
Matthews: "Who were the pullers?"
Benjamin: "She has goons, just like the Republicans have goons and they drag you out of there and they say, no signs other than the signs that we hand to you. The Republicans and the Democrats do the same thing."
8)
Good for Hardball for having this discussion. Next they should address the abuse of the Taser by cops in this country.
there's no difference between bush and hillary. just watch and see if she gets elected.
of course they do the same things.
they both answer to the same polls, handlers and corporations.
DUH-Shit.
As much of a boob as Andrew Sullivan is, he said that Hillary reminded him of Nixon. The secrecy and all that. When was the last time most politicians hobknobbed with the unwashed masses? Even most of the campaign appearances are limited to donors or those that volunteer.
NOW HERE’S THE KIND OF ‘FREE SPEECH’ THAT SHOULD BE TASERED
I saw that and it is ridiculous that anyone - including the present administration and future wanna-bes - try to control the voices (and clothing) of their supporters
“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies – one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left – is a foolish idea. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can throw the rascals out at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. The policies that are vital and necessary for America are no longer subjects of significant disagreement, but are disputable only in detail, procedure, priority, or method.”
Carroll Quigley, Tragedy & Hope
wait, the dems have goons and are just as bad as the republicans? who woulda thunk it?
This all reminds me of the line from The Clash's "Know Your Rights" when the brilliant Joe Strummer wrote-- You have the right to free speech. Just as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it!
Of course both parties do it. It's called "staying on message," and it's sui generis to any political strategy. If a protestor disrupts the party, that takes the politico off message.
Considering that Rev. Lennox Yearwood was tackled for wearing a button saying "I love the people of Iraq" at the Petraeus hearing... I'm not surprised.
I saw something like this yesterday on the NBC Evening News. They mentioned Sally Field being bleeped out at the Emmies, and the tasering in Florida, but then had to insert a story no one heard of, of a man trying to give a pro-war speech at the lectern of an anti-war demonstration.
On top of that the male anchor asked the female anchor what she thought, and she responded like maybe the kid who got tasered had it coming.
The idea of tasers armed cops were sold in Dallas as the last non-lethal way of diffusing a situation since choke holds were killing people, and cops only use guns to kill. They were never intended to become just another way of taking someone down.
Apparently the only difference between Hillary and Bush is that she, uh, has a bush.
Rejoice America! At last, all your decisions will be made FOR you.
"Tasering people because they're obnoxious."
I've watched several versions of that video by now, and the guy just didn't seem that "obnoxious" to me. Excited, maybe. But never rude... at least not in any of the footage I saw.
Come to think of it, rushheads, and malkinkins have been making death threats against Hillary, so she does have a security detail. However, that's not like local party officals misrepresenting themselves as security or police pulling dissenters out of boosh's rallies.
It appears that Hillary is as much of a narcissistic control freak as Our Dear Leader. How refreshing!
Seriously, Hillary is the ultimate beltway insider. Same tactics. Same results. Same big money. Same beholdin'.
ysbaddaden @ 17:
HRC has Secret Service protection for the rest of her life, being married to an ex-President.
Are they going by this Code Pink's word alone? How does she know these are Hillary "goon squad" and not counter demonstrators?
Also, was she tasered or any way roughed up? If not that almost makes it almost irrelevant.
Sounds to me like she's trying to make Code Pink more relevant and edgier-seeming instead of the auntie-war comelatelies.
“She has goons, just like the Republicans have goons and they drag you out of there and they say, no signs other than the signs that we hand to you. The Republicans and the Democrats do the same thing.”
VERY sad, if true.
20 Joe Klein’s conscience
They've amped it somehow since the threats.
That Hillary has goons that remove people from rallies is an extremely promising and happy sign.
Next, I hope she loses the general election, but takes office anyway. Then I want her to go on to direct the most corrupt and incompetent administration in the country's history. I want her to conduct her affairs with a secretiveness and a maliciousness that shocks even her most ardent supporters. And when she starts having her political enemies "disappear" to secret CIA prisons I'm going to get out my checkbook for her reelection campaign.
Pinochet's America
I smell GOP agents provocateur.
Rusty, the first quarter of the show yesterday was about tasers and the event in Gainsville. No one supported what was done to the student and they questioned what was happening in our country. It was a positive and good discussion.
Did they have "goons" when Bill used to speak at gatherings?
Rollo Tomassi @ 15:
Freedom of choice... is what you got.
Freedom from choice... is what you want.
Democans & Republicrats.
Two sides of the same coin.
No matter which side you choose, the result is the same; politicians are all corporate puppets, bought and sold a dozen over or more, and they're taking money out of the public's pockets and putting it into their own.
Even when you think you're selecting the lesser of two evils, you're still choosing evil.
Swashbuckler @ 22:
why would you doubt what she said?
I knew we were losing the right to free speech.
I didn't know that people were now being banned from traveling to certain public places. I think we can expect to see more restrictions on this front. There is talk of restricting visits to Federal Property like National Parks, IRS offices and Federal Courtrooms to people who have valid passports. If that passes. We can expect that passports will become restricted also.
As we slide down the peak oil slope, rationing of certain items like gasoline will likely depend on party affiliation.
We are becoming the USSR.
tasered are not non lethal. We had a man killed by a cop with a a taser this year in baltimore. That lethal force can be used in this situation is insane.
http://granitegrok.com/pix/question%20by%20Rockwell.jpg
imagine the man in this Norman Rockwell illustration being tasered. No one thinks this man is standing up because he agrees with government, the whole point of free speech is to express disagreement. Thats what makes
C'mon people. There's PLENTY of opportunities for free speech in America. Ya just gotta do it right...
(obligatory blogwhore: http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com )
Your right, ysbaddaden,
unless you've had you head cracked open, you have'nt been oppressed. And waterboarding is not torture, and neither are "stress "positions, in the nude, with electrodes on your nuts.
I am sure you can show us some quality oppression, huh??
Ys (21), those same thoughts ran through my mind. I would like a little more confirmation on what the code pink lady said. Has it happened to anyone else at a Hillary, or for that matter any of the other Dem candidates, gatherings?
Blue Buddha @ 12:
yep! goons in congress and the senate!
richard roe @ 29:
I think Michael Moore put it once: "You're choosing between the evil of two lessers."
I've been trying to tell you people for sometime now.
The Bush's and Clinton's are friends. Research Bill Clinton's involvement with BCCI, The Contra cocaine and Iran Contra. Mena Arkansa and Barry Seal.
Most of the Democrats and Most of the Republicans. Left foot Right foot and their agenda keeps on moving.
You just can't fit a round peg into a square hole.
We are all round pegs, don't you see?
What is wrong with my ears, Chris was defending free speech? I couldn't believe what I was hearing in this interview. He sounded like he was sincere too. Shit! Maybe he see Keith's ratings and is figuring something out.
Conyers? What did Code Pink lady say? Does Conyers really kick them out? I was not shocked about Hillary Clinton's goons. I am sick of this too! I posted yesterday;
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I no longer recognize this country. Democracy and freedom are dead.
pissed off patricia @ 35:
If it happened to Medea Benjamin at a Hillary Clinton rally, I find it hard to believe there isn't video of it out there somewhere.
The assault on free speech isn't just in schools, but in public life. People who dare ask questions are "assumed" to be up to "no good." The problem is when a simple question is used, incorrectly, as the basis to "charge" someone with being up to "no good."
The real issue is that had there been no videotape, the security at the university would likely have lied about what happened; and misrepresented the events, putting the burden on the student to defend himself against false charges. America has turned into the land of baseless accusations and the shifting of burden of proof. This is a needed wakeup call: America's security institutions are not adequately overseen, and have mandates they are not competent to manage, handle, or properly perform. This leads to abuse. The end result is more abuse of innocent people and intrusions into their private lives. This was foreseeable: When US troops get deployed, there are fewer people stateside to competently backfil the police functions and lower level security requirements.
Thank you Congress and George Bush for your recklessness in mismanaging this Iraq war. Where is DOJ OPR on this investigation; and when will Congress broadly review the incompetence. Federal funding goes to local security through transportation and DHS/DOJ Grants. Congress has a role.
Rally Squads = Brown Shirts
We've heard and seen several examples of people being pulled from areas where bush was going to speak. The people who had bumper stickers on their car that the bush "goons" didn't approve of, the couple wearing the t-shirts that were pulled too. Hell Chris showed the handbook that told who they should get rid of before a bush speech. This code pink lady is the only case I've heard of where someone was told to leave a hillary speech. Are there others?
I went to a Clinton fundraising bash in NY (2006). Code Pink was there, positoned at the corner and at the tail end of the queue (it wasnt very long). I chatted with them for a few minutes. Very idealistic, which is greatly to their credit but also a bit of a practical liability at times. I told them I agreed with their principles but I was supporting Clinton out of political pragmatism (I've given no money to her since--she's got quite enough!).
I was inside the venue when Clinton arrived. Her security detail was very small (two guys--maybe three)--smaller than I expected for a wealthy Senator/former Fisrt Lady. There was one uniform cop, who did nothing but watch. No press evident. Code Pink was not hassled there (that I saw).
Venue/location may have a lot to do with the behaviour of security and police. I could have walked into that venue with a gun--there was no patting-down or metal detectors at all. I don't doubt that Medea Benjamin has been hassled by security sometime or sometimes, but here use of "goons" and her drawing an equivalency with the Republican m.o. strikes me as a stretch.
Still, the issue is there, and Code Pink is there fighting the good fight for a universal and vital principle.
I went to a Kerry rally before the last election. While Bush was requiring loyalty oaths, anyone was let into the Kerry rally.
I don't want to think that Hillary Clinton is copying Bush's tactics.
It seems more and more our dear leaders don't want any unpleasantness - like being forced to hear out their public on issues.
The police need to be reminded over and over again that dissent is an American right. And all too often, those who have the strongest views on issues and act on those views are our children. Too often it seems like the police in their riot squad gear feel disappointed if they can't crack some heads and have to push people around to stir up some excitement.
Face it people, we are NOT free.
"Keeping slaves," they argued, "required accomodation, food, medicine, hospitalization..." In effect a kept slave necessitates similar expense and treatment accorded to the best 'yoked' animals in our business stables and pastures. The employed serf ('wage-slave') can be dismissed at will, works for a pittance under duress, feeds and clothes his family, will happily pay us three times for a mortgaged house over a generation, and will be totally dependent upon the 'Owners of Capital' for his continued mutual survival."
Please God not Hillary. She meets with Murdoch and Bill Clinton spends more time riding around in a golf cart with Bush 41 then Bush 41's own sons do. That should tell you something right there.
GalfromCal @ 40:
You haven't been watching Tweety in the past few months... his head asploded. One day, he's defending Bush, the next day he's back in the reality based community. But it's probably a good thing you haven't been watching him lately, because the way he's weaving back and forth, you'd need some Dramamine. :(
SAD
We have no candidate who will truly represent the people except possibly Edwards, and he's no sure thing.
Bush - Clinton - Bush - CLINTON????
Come on, lets break the pattern with an Edwards, an Obama, or Jim Webb.
If you really think that any of the front runner Dems will immediately stop the War, you're drinking blue Kool Aid.
We are being hustled.
Example: Clinton health-care plan. Give the insurance thieves a new profit center and they pretend to be against it. Then we pass a crummy bill and screw the people again. Here it comes!
We need Universal Health Care paid with TAX DOLLARS, not on the backs of business.
NO INSURANCE COMPANY PROFITS IN HEALTH CARE....PUT THEM BACK IN THE LIFE INSURANCE BUSINESS.
Holy hell!! That kid that got tasered did NOT have his free speech violated! Stop spinning it that you you retards! He violated the forum rules, was asked nicely to go, shooed the cops, they started escorting him (after his free speech was done), and then we know what happened.
Free speech is "what he said" not what he wasn't allowed to say after his time expired or after he was in cuffs and tazed. If anyone would be a candidate of silencing his free speech it was the tech who cut his mic or the moderator who made rules limiting his time speaking...but hardly the police.
You guys make me sad to be a liberal.
Where is it written that we have to elect politicians? Isn't there anyone in the private sector that we could find to break the political lock on the presidency?
Patthemokey @ 53:
Cheney's about to retire.
The new logo for the University of Florida
http://www.photopixels.com/portraits/images/Reddy%20Kilowatt.jpg
Patthemokey @ 53:
Blackwater has a number of well-qualified presidential-types.
Bholland @ 51:
I think that's called Windex.
Chris, it seems like your finally getting it and coming around to reporting on some very important issues we face.
Although I think Bush mastered the screening of political town halls with pre written queastions to the town hall people. It is fascist and Bush wanted to portray all the support and thought it would muzzle those that disagreed.
Remember Bush's Social Security campaign across the nation. Bush was paying people to show up and ask prepared questions. Odd enough Bush would have the prepared questions prepared answer. But it was seeen through and our media was failing us over that.
So when Democrats have crownd control goons as the Republicans. I suggest that the Republican payroll provides for Democratic distubances. Still no excuse for tasering someone.
Politicians better understand that they have been trying to over rule a nations people and going against the Nations will. Like removing civil rights in the name of freedom. America is no doubt angry and our politicians best confront this anger. Not order us away or muzzle us..............................
Weaseldog @ 31:
Chertoff gave the example of access to a national park when pitching the REAL-ID system a couple of weeks back, suggesting that if you didn't have a REAL-ID compliant ID (as a number of states are rightly questioning the effectiveness of the system), you would need a passport to enter a national park. (And U.S. passports now come with RFIDs, so they're already integrated into the surveillance state.)
But it's far more insidious than getting into Yellowstone National Park. They could use the REAL-ID excuse for any government service, state borders (especially with some states resisting the change), and we'll eventually have to show our IDs just to open our mouths (even in a 'free speech zone,' it's the ultimate goal of the surveillance state to know who is speaking out).
Mugsy @ 16:
Agreed. The real question here is -- Why can't six cops subdue an unarmed suspect who isn't posing a threat to them or himself without resorting to a taser? Isn't that kind of admitting that they are worthless as law enforcement officials?
This issue (and similar ones yet to come) may be what finally gets complacent college-age people off their ass and into the political fray.
Code Pink has the absolute right to a total F-ing embarassment to the left. As John Stewart said on his regular segment...You're Not Helping.
Al B Tross @ 34:
Are we discussing our personal lifestyles now?
ironchef @ 52:
Piffle.
I actually am shocked by this, although my wife isn't. Yeah, I know it is one of our taglines that Hillary is no different than Bush but my god -- this is pretty shocking. I had hoped that Bush was an abberation that we would get over.
As the clip says -- look at Iraq. That is practice for what is coming here. Consider that much of the "security" is being done by private armies like blackwater with no accountability to anybody other than the CEO and you can see what is coming.
I have always figured that we must nominate someone other than Hillary because she can not win -- and it is imperitive for a Democrat to win in order to restore our rights. However, if what the woman here alleges is true then I don't even think that I would want Hillary to win even if she could.
This is pretty depressing.
Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 60:
Yep. Those were shitty cops. They deserve to be fired, and probably sued.
Actually, this is becoming common place at events other than political rallies. I was in an auditorium with 500 people at an amatuer comedy night. Most of the performers were great but one sucked. I booed once, and the guard told me if I did it again I'd be asked to leave.
Total crowd control from start to finish.
We as Americans do not live in a "FREE" Country. Oh, you would like to think you do. As our civil liberties, free right to speech and peaceful protest, as our country is becoming a Dictatorship, we do nothing. As the rich become richer, the middle class slowly dwindling, our food supplies and trickets come from third world countries, our jobs are being outsourced, people are losing their homes by record numbers, as our economy is slowly deterioating, as our elected officials bankrupt our government, we do nothing.
I will not vote for Hilary Clinton, she is a goon. Look at her voting record and that will tell the story. You believe she will serve this country better than Bush? Think again!!!
Americans wake up!!! Lets stick together and get our country back before it is too late. Mark my word..if we don't do something now, to save democracy, the right wingers, the goons will be there to take our freedoms away.
OK, I think we all should stop saying that our country is GETTING worse day by day.
I say its time to say that fascism is here and now. For how worse does it have to get before we say we are fascist? We can't even wear certain T-Shirts anymore now?
Fuck this, we are fascist and its time to admit it. WE ARE A FASCIST NATION.
ironchef @ 52:
why are you calling people 'retards' for not agreeing with your non-liberal, authoritarian POV?
ironchef @ 52:
"There ought to be limits to freedom."
-- King George the XLIII
Since when does breaking the rules at a public forum justify the use of a taser?
I'd always thought the taser was a non-lethal alternative to having to draw your service pistol and park a couple in the subject's ten-ring, not a convenience for subduing a loud-mouthed college student.
By the way, if free speech is 'what you say' and not 'the manner in which you say it,' then I assume you like the idea of free speech zones?
Free speech is freedom of expression, not marching in a single-file line like a bunch of zombies. Your world would have anyone who dared to dance a step or two rather than trudge get tasered for their misbehavior.
I guess its a good thing the cops had a taser, otherwise they probably would have shot him!
I agree the kid was obnoxious and behaved like a self-important jerk, but as Donald Rumsfeld once said, "Freedom is untidy." I think there were other ways to handle him other than violence. Rachel Maddow said on Countdown yesterday that the cops should have been better trained to handle these kinds of people who are at every open political forum.
This is just something new we all have to get used to.
The taser is now a viable form of communication.
It can be used to communicate phrases like:
"Stop talking."
"Your time is up."
"I don't agree with you."
as well as many others.
Biggus Diggus @ 72:
And the thing is, these were university cops. You'd think that of all people they'd know how to handle a disruptive college kid safely and competently. But not so much.
and dozens of others saying the same thing.
So just don't vote - they're all the same.
Or find a third party that won't draw 1% of the total and vote for them. But wait - should they get elected, they be corrupted within months.
So - just don't bother to vote, American Idol is way more important, but don't tell anyone you're glued to it watch Simon trash someone for a cheap laugh. Or gnash your teeth over all the print that's wasted on Spears and Lohan.
But shriek about Hillary or Barack or John or Bill or anyone toi the left of Rudy and tell people they're all the same.
Then cry copious tears when Fred Thompson is installed by Scalia after another 50:50 election.
Will the left never learn? perfection is a myth.
Holy Heil!!
Hillary is running the most contrived calculated campaign ever. This should come as no surprise to anyone. I hope it backfires because she is the least likely Democrat to win the general election. The sooner the DEMs toss her to the curb and concentrate on someone that can win, the better. Hillary is the medias choice and the DLC/Beltway choice. The voters across this country want to win and they don't want Hillary.
Curtilingus @ 71:
That's what folks were saying yesterday. They said tasering him was better than putting a bullet through his head.
That is the choice if you break the forum rules. Tasering or execution.
Arizona @ 68:
Absolutely 100% spot on, Arizona!
The Republicans and the Democrats do the same thing???? NOoooooo. Reeeaallyy??
Medea Benjiman is an idiot. I had an email conversation with her about her lavish praise of Comrade Chavez, and well, I was not impressed. However, I do support her and Taze Bro in their right to free speech. Kerry once again shows backbone after the fact...
Freakaloin @ 3:
Sheesh, I thought the whole Naderite "not a dime's worth of difference" meme was dead and gone.
I'm no fan of Hillary (she's at the bottom of my list of preferred Democratic Presidential candidates), however if you think that Hillary would nominate mouth breathers like Sam Alito to the Supreme Court or appoint unqualified cronies like "Brownie" to important government posts, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn you can buy.
"Fair and Balanced" Dave @ 82:
My God, some of you guys have really short memories.
The abridgment of free speech in the United States is becoming a crisis, along with every other thing the regime of BushCo has touched.
It is no longer acceptable to be silent in comparing this atmosphere to the atmosphere that existed in Germany, when Hitler was grooming the populace for a dictatorship.
The free speech that the college student was engaging in happens and should continue to happen on college campuses across the country.
John Kerry walked away without a fight, and our country was put in the hands of a wannabe dictator.
We deserve an explanation...or history will repeat itself.
ironchef @ 52:
You just used the word "retard" in a conversation. Who cares what else you think?
"You just used the word “******” in a conversation. Who cares what else you think?"
You got that right.
Yet another reason to write in Kucinich!
RIP, Bill Hicks.
Actually, it's corporations that are in control, not government.
Frank Zappa said, "Politics is the entertainment branch of industry", and it's true. Government is the tail and Wall Street is the dog. So of course HRC and all the other Dem candidates for Preznit are all just part of the same corporate-backed farce.
But it's turning around. We in the grassroots are taking back the Democratic party, and there's definitely a difference between the parties. In a generation or so, we can win.
See, one party at least tries to make an attempt at looking like they're trying to do the right thing.
The other doesn't give a fuck.
I'll vote for, and support, the one that at least makes an effort at it.
By the way, if you think HRC is wrong and Benjamin is right, then don't bitch about Clinton, join Code Pink, show up to rallies and protests, write letters, send money, get involved. They're great people and they do great work (and they're not all women, IIRC, so guys can get involved too, if you don't mind wearing pink).
ironchef @ 52:
YOU make me sad to be a liberal. That kid was not a physical threat to anyone.
richard roe @ 29:
These are the exact words of RN.
That's why I voted for Ralph Nader. Democrats keep voting for Democrats(DINO), expecting different results. Yes, I know...he is unelectable...ONLY IF YOU KEEP VOTING FOR DINO'S LIKE Hillary.