Not One Red Cent
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Sep 19, 2007 9:26pm
I'm on board, how about you?
In fact, I'm going to take the money I would have donated to Democratic campaigns and donating it to MoveOn so that they can redouble their efforts.
Let those gutless Democrats in the Senate who once again caved to Republican framing know, "I will fight back."
First!!!!
The Democrats in DC are useless useless useless!!! How dare they vote with the right wing traitors against the Democratic base.
Where were these useless wimp Democratic politicians when the Swift Boat Liars weent against "WAR HERO"/Democratic Presidential candidate 04 John Kerry?
Where were they to condemn the right wing liars????
For a second I thought you were referring to the amount of the Federal Income Tax that goes to pay for government services.
Not on board.
We need more democrats. This reeks of "Might as well vote for Nader" and we all saw what happened with that great idea in 2000.
Like it or not, the democratic party are our only hope.
a damned fine idea . . . and interesting how cheesed off the ruling class gets when us common folk speak out.
Speaking (of ) sense:
From: AmericafForGore: THE TWO CENTS CAMPAIGN
Show Al the Money!
If you want to do your part to help convince Al Gore to run for President, join our two cents campaign. All you have to do is put two pennies in an envelope, and send them to Office of the Honorable Al Gore, 2100 West End Avenue, Suite 620, Nashville, TN 37203. You can include a note that you'll send a proper contribution once he announces he's in the race. We believe that Gore and his advisors will take note of this tangible evidence that America needs him to run for president. It is simple, won't take long to do and will only cost you half a dollar including stamp and envelope and, of course, the two pennies. So dive into the couch and retrieve the pennies that will represent your opinion, and let's get Al in the race!
Desperate times, desperate efforts. Well... MoveOn is not exactly a bad alternative.
I'm DEFINITELY on board.
I donated $25.00 today.
I have already made my contribution to MoveOn tonight.
Most of the Senate Democrats are cowards, and I am getting sick of it.
Amazing! I said that today, that I would no longer contribute to any politician, my money is going to moveon and a few other web sites like TPM. The democrats say they don't have the votes for impeachment... could anyone tell me what the vote count was for the impeachment of Richard M. Nixon?
How about donatin' that money to the Dems who oppose the incumbents who voted fer the Cornyn Amendment?
Or hows about donatin' to Dems who voted against the Cornyn Amendment- there are twenty five of those folks.
I hate to increase the competition, but if any of you true blue Progressives out there are looking to change the world with Eli, tomorrow is the last day to apply for their Fellowship.
i have received two emails recently from the DNC asking for money. i replied to dncmemberservices_3@dnc.org that i will not give them one red cent until the democrat-led congress does not do what they were elected to do. doesn't an 11% approval rating for congress tell them that they are moving in the wrong direction?
ME TOO!
And to hell with BLUE DOG AND ALL OTHER BUSH ENABLING DEMOCRATS, in or outside the beltway!
Jim @ 4:
the current situation is untenable . . . we are f*cked if the dems don't grow spines.
> Like it or not, the democratic party are our only hope.
No. WE are THEIR only hope and they'd better start realizing it.
I'm resigned. I'm ready for this country to turn into a fascist one-party state. I don't need false hope.
If you're interested in stopping it and you want my support, you'd fucking better well start DEMONSTRATING the will to do so.
Sorry. Won't be fooled again. Certainly not by the politics of fear.
And Nader didn't hand this country to Bush all by his lonesome...Gore did...the Supreme Court did...Kerry did...we all did.
You know, if Nader had been in Gore's position, he would have fucking FOUGHT.
I sleep well at night knowing that Joe Lieberman never...NEVER...got a vote out of me.
Does your conscience bother you?
Thank you Nicole. That is an excellent idea. Something has got to wake up the Dems. Either they are an alternative to the ReTHugs, or they are the same. Time to step up to the plate Dems. Enough is enough. You say you are different, but go out of your way to show you are the same. Once again, thanks Nicole. Great link!!!
Supporting primary challengers.
Seize party, insert spine.
what the FUCK is wrong with these fucking democrats? What the fuck? What the fuck are they doing? What the fuck?
I swear I'm going to stay home in 2008. Fuck it all. Those fucking cowards sat idly by while Kerry was swiftboated and now they want to pass a fucking resolution?
Bush politicized Patreus. Patreus is fair game. But mostly, political speech is free.
Kinda reminds me of the ol' saying, "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature." Those democrats who voted for the measure chastising Move-On will come to regret it.
this is the new revolution - fighting fire with fire and encouraging more americans to read.
oops. this is what i meant to say
i have received two emails recently from the DNC asking for money. i replied to dncmemberservices_3@dnc.org that i will not give them one red cent until the democrat-led congress does what they were elected to do. doesn’t an 11% approval rating for congress tell them that they are moving in the wrong direction?
Is anybody making Amero coins yet, we could send them those!
Already there. I sent MoveOn money, won't send any to any dems who are too spineless to stand up for what's right. cowards, every single one of them.
not on board, either.
set the war aside (i know, i know, but follow me here...)
we need more dems to break filibusters on major domestic legislation, like health care...like re-building national infrastructure...like ending tax breaks for the disproprtionately wealthy.
besides, move on will just spend the money on more sophomoric and non-strategic -- even if red-meat satisfying -- ads like "betray us."
luv ya, crooks&liars, get over it...
I just sent my first $30 ever to moveon.org today. I'm glad other people are having the same idea!!!!
I'm in. I just got a packet from the DNC with a photo of the candidates at their "debate". I will put a check in their envelope and send it to Moveon.org first thing in the morning.
I donated $100 today to MoveOn.org and then I called Senator Cornyn and thanked him for inispiring me to do so. I have donated $$ to Move on during the 2006 election, but admit have not sent them any $$ for awhile. What happened today got me soooo mad, that I decided to start contributing again. I think Repugs are very very scared of the power MoveOn has. Thanks Sen. Cornyn. You are a jerk, and because of you, I will make regualar contributions to MoveOn, an organization you, and your ilk are soooo afraid of!
Lucky for me my one Dem Senator is voting correctly but he agreed to the 60 vote requirement for the Webb amendment. I sent the following note by fax to him today:
09/20/2007
Senator Sherrod C. Brown
Constitution and Delaware Avenues, NE
RSOB- Russell Senate Office Building - Room 455
Washington, DC 20510-3505
Senator Brown,
I am writing to ask you why you agreed to the unanimous consent that called for a vote of 60 to pass the Webb amendment, which would have required US troops spend as much time at home training with their units as they spend deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know you voted for the bill itself, however I notice you agreed to required the bill to get 60 votes to pass. I have learned that even if one Senator objected to the consent, the bill would have passed with the 56 it got and it would have forced the Republicans to filibuster.
I hope I don't need to remind you that the Democratic party looks worse when they given in to the GOP without them even putting up a fight. I am getting tired of watching your party give in to the Republicans and a President with a 30% approval rating.
When are you guys going to start acting like you are the majority?
Fuck the Democrats! Spineless little pigs. I'm so far out of the Democratic party they can't even get me on a spy satalite! Oh, BTW, I've been a solid Democrat since 1971. I am so sick of these chickenshit DNC cowards, I'm out!! There needs to be a revolution, period! Don't give me any of that whiney, "it's all that we've got" shit. It is not!! Think!! Think!! It's not against the law.... YET!!!!! FUCK!!!!!
PS I will give every dollar I can give to Moveon.org... they have guts and they speak the TRUTH!!!!
> luv ya, crooks&liars, get over it…
No.
Every time a Democratic fund raiser calls - tell them you now send all your money to moveon.org.
Every time anyone calls for you to answer a political "survey", tell them you vote Republican
Don't go to political rally's
Don't show any interest in supporting a democratic candidate.
Be silent for a year
Let their numbers fall.
BUT WHEN WE ARE ASKED TO VOTE - GO AND VOTE DEMOCRAT.
I'm with you.
jo6pac
May I also suggest the ACLU as a fine alternative to the useless Democrats. Basically, someone who has a record defending the unalienable rights of "We The People"...that basically excludes nearly everyone in our federal government, who have (mostly) committed perjury when the swore to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution."
Jim @ 4:
I'm with you, Jim. I'd at least like to see the dems take a super majority in the congress for a little while. THEN we can start holding their feet to the fire for long term change in this country. But on this site, you'll be called republican-lite and the very thing that is wrong with America for even hoping for improvement before Utopia.
I'm afraid that pragmatism to the left wing is kind of like thoughtfulness to the right wing ... they just don't think it's necessary.
Above a poster says that if things don't change, we're all fucked. I agree. But I think the change starts with getting the republican neocons and social totalitarians out of power. I think some don't consider it change until MLK and Ghandi come back from the dead to lead the socialist movement. (I say socialist in the good, non-propagandist context ... not the scary, commies are gonna get us context)
I thought the Move On ad was a mistake -- that they should have known that it would become the center of the debate rather than what really needed to be discussed, namely bringing the troops home.
Seriously, Karl Rove couldn't have planned it better himself if he had planted operatives in MoveOn and asked them to craft an ad that would become a distraction from the real issue.
But the Democrats have proven to be so spineless, that I'm inclined to give my money to MoveOn instead of them.
Pat Ukaleley @ 33:
Not bad. Making a point without shitting in your own bed. Not bad.
nope.
still not on board.
i ain't persuaded.
move on is "clever" but you don't win legislation that helps kids, the poor, education and the health of the country with "clever."
you can't wield power without having it. that means numbers.
this "tantrum" of a thread is really silly.
move on gave the republicans a gift: dems/liberals/progressives hate the military.
dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb strategy. for a "clever" rhyme on petraeus?
get out of politics. go to frickin' poetry school.
take a chill pill guys...
y'all got hoisted on move on's own "clever" petard.
Call the Capitol Switchboard, ask for Harry Reid and or all the turncoat Democratic Senators that sided with the hypocrite traitors to the US Constitution.
(202)224-3121
Democrats voting yes for the measure were:
Baucus (MT)
Bayh (IN)
Cardin (MD)
Carper (DE)
Casey (PA)
Conrad (ND)
Dorgan (ND)
Feinstein (CA)
Johnson (SD)
Klobuchar (MN)
Kohl (WI)
Landrieu (LA)
Leahy (VT)
Lincoln (AR)
McCaskill (MO)
Mikulski (MD)
Nelson (NE)
Nelson (FL)
Pryor (AR)
Salazar (CO)
Tester (MT)
Webb (VA)
Ok, done! I just donated $25 to MoveOn, and I promise, NOOO more donations to the Democratic Party, not until they earn it!
But MoveOn has a history of capitalizing on anti-war sentiment to support right-wing Democratic candidates. In the end, MoveOn will back any vulnerable Democrat, no matter how sleazy.
PAINT YOUR PENNIES
... ORANGE ...
... PASS em AROUND
... Buy Some Peace
... Put Some On de Ground as U Walk Around
U Know... A Penny 4 Your Thoughts of Peace All Over OUR Earth
" 2 Hell... With War "
" penny 2 end all war "
" bush thoughts arn't worth a damn penny "
.
.
>I’m afraid that pragmatism to the left wing is kind of like thoughtfulness to the right wing … they just don’t think it’s necessary.
The pragmatism door swings both ways. If the Dems can't take our support for granted, then maybe they'll feel SOME pressure to win us back.
What's your alternative? To get a solid 67 senators? That's not going to fucking happen.
Putting up with this nonsense until they get a supermajority is about as pragmatic as hoping that God will Rapture us all up before things get any worse.
No, we have to put the pressure on NOW. Waiting for the supermajority is a suckers' game.
The pragmatic thing is to hold their feet to the fire NOW...not with the expectation that they'll stop Republican obstructionism, math being math, but to fight them.
Fight them.
FIGHT THEM!
FIGHT THEM! FIGHT THEM! FIGHT THEM!
Why not fight now? Do you really think the Democrats will HARM themselves by standing up for what they believe in? Do you really think that those of us who support them do a service to this country by not demanding that they do so?
What's pragmatic about that? "Just wait...just wait until the next election...just wait until this report...just wait until that hearing...just wait until I finish this strongly worded letter."
I. Am. Done. Waiting.
We must call the turncoats to voice our displeasure :
Call the Capitol Switchboard, ask for Harry Reid and or all the turncoat Democratic Senators that sided with the hypocrite traitors to the US Constitution.
(202)224-3121
Democrats voting yes for the measure were:
Baucus (MT)
Bayh (IN)
Cardin (MD)
Carper (DE)
Casey (PA)
Conrad (ND)
Dorgan (ND)
Feinstein (CA)
Johnson (SD)
Klobuchar (MN)
Kohl (WI)
Landrieu (LA)
Leahy (VT)
Lincoln (AR)
McCaskill (MO)
Mikulski (MD)
Nelson (NE)
Nelson (FL)
Pryor (AR)
Salazar (CO)
Tester (MT)
Webb (VA)
MoveON/DNC, no difference. Well, at least the DNC makes less of a pretense of being anti-war.
The GOP used this vote to drive a wedge between the "moderate" democrat (aka Rohm's NAFTA candidates) and the base. I say, thank you GOP, it's about time Dems cut those DINO's loose. I got a fundraising letter from the DNC 5 weeks ago asking for money, I sent it back with the words, "Not one dime until Impeachment" with a big black sharpie.
My money is going to MoveOn.org!!!!!
Look at the 2-3 year old interview with K. Vonnegut on PBS. Its available on the Internet. He calls the 2 party system in the U.S. ridiculous. Both sides are rich and on the side of the rich so the winners in the U.S. cannot lose. Its just that
the Rupublicans are more on the side of the rich than the Democrats.
I.e.,
DAVID BRANCACCIO: Well, you write in the book you say that the last election, the two leading candidates were two C students from Yale, as you put it.
KURT VONNEGUT: Two members of Skull and Bones at Yale, for God's sake. If I mean, that's what a charade the combat between the Republicans and the Democrats is. It's rich kids. Winners on both sides. So the winners can't lose. And, of course, the losers have no representation in Congress or whatever.
But look, yeah. We had to choose between two members of Skull and Bones? What about if we had to choose between two members of Sigma Chi at Purdue? Wouldn't somebody have said what a minute. What the hell happened here?
DAVID BRANCACCIO: But you're saying you don't see senior political figures really, anybody representing the interests of people who are struggling?
KURT VONNEGUT: No, are not representing the American people. And, so there are people who made a hell of a lot of money one way or another. Making it during the war, incidentally. As you know, maybe the war is a bad idea. But some people are making a ton of money off of it. And they want to hang on to whatever they've got. And so they bank roll political campaigns for both Republicans and Democrats. Look, we're awful animals. We can start with that. You know, it's a whole human experiment, if that's what we are.
DAVID BRANCACCIO: That heart-- at heart, we're awful?
KURT VONNEGUT: Look, we after two World Wars and the holocaust and the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and after the Roman games and after the Spanish Inquisition and after burning witches, the public-- shouldn't we call it off? I mean, we are a disease and should be ashamed of ourselves.
And so, yeah, I think we ought to stop reproducing. But since we're not going to do that, I think the planet's immune system is trying to get rid of us.
http://www.maclife.com/article/10_worst_apple_commercials
I signed up as a member at MoveOn.Org this evening after reading about the bullsh-t the Senate did. My pennies will go to MoveOn.Org, not any politicians that can attack citizens speaking out in a day yet can't stop an illegal war based on lies given months to try.
Oops! Wrong link...that was to the 10 worst Apple commercials. Here you go....
Vonnegut told the truth...
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcriptNOW140_full.html
You know, I've re-thought my position. I just went to the store. I saw a protester named Joe with a sign in the parking lot that said, "Impeach the war criminal Bush!"
I walked up to him and told him how much I admired his moxy. I then wrote him a check for $1000 (the $1000 I was going to give to the Dems' effort to win the white house) and I asked him to run for president. Fuck the democrats. We're not going to change this country until we all band together and vote for Joe. Until then, we may as well have Bush/Clinton for the rest of time. Because there really is no difference between the two major parties.
Joe in '08!
... or maybe I'm being sarcastic. (thank you captain obvious)
Jim @ 4:
If that were true i would have no hope. We have Democrats who should be in office and Democrats who should get out of the way already and let us have our nation back. The ones who voted to condemn Move On today should start counting the days they have left in office because right now they should have a solid date to look at.
Jim @ 4:
WIth ya Jim - just as soon as they grow a spine and a set. Not before then.
I mostly lurk this site, John, Nicole, you do good work.
I am fed right the fuck up with this horse shit we have in our house and senate. This occupation is unjust, illegal, and a goddamn sin by shrubbie's god's eyes, yet, they still want to send our kids, our parents, our grandparents, and I bet in some cases great-grandparents over to piss off the rest of the goddamn world.
Shrubbie's little oil/ego war is the worst thing that's happened to this nation (and the world) in the last 100 years in my humble opinion.
I wouldn't piss down their throats if their lungs were on fire.
If I could've afforded more than $300, I would've given it.
move on gave the republicans a gift: dems/liberals/progressives hate the military.
I agree. The ad took the attention off Petraeus' testimony. Not only that, but I think many good, solid Democrats who don't read blogs and are just honest hard-working folk, think it was over the top. I talked with a group the other day that was working on a mailing for a Democratic candidate for state senate in Virginia who thought it was childish.
Now, I've read that my congressman, Tom Davis, is going to look into whether the NYTimes broke campaign laws by selling ad space to MoveOn at a discount.
Too late... I've already donated $120.... To Ron Paul.
Just left a message with Harry Reid's DLC office. I told him that I was motivated to make a donation to MoveOn.org by their actions, and I would never EVER donate to the Dems until they get their heads out of their asses.
These politician thugs make me SICK!
JasonS @ 44:
The answer to your questions ... No and no. I don't think the dems would harm themselves. But they obviously do; nor do I expect them to in the short term. No, it is not a disservice to demand that they change. We just disagree over what can be accomplished by '08 and '12. I'd love it if we could all get off of our lazy asses and storm D.C. But it would take a couple million of us. Again ... lots of shit that needs to happen, that I'd love to see happen, but won't happen. Our disagreement is over whether trying for more seats would be at all productive.
I hate them too ... pretty much all of them. But I've never before seen the kind of scary shit that I've seen coming from this administration. IMO, the American people need to send a message to the neo-facists first.
Time to put the money where the mouse is: I sent MoveOn a goodly (by my standards) donation. Money is the only thing that most of the shills in Congress really believe in so lets see how they feel when their "condemnation"---not much sting to it when you consider the source---turns out to be the biggest fund raising event ever for MoveOn. Send the spineless stooges in DC a message and a check to MoveOn!!!
This is almost identical to a suggestion I'd made a week ago in a post linked by Buzzflash, "The New Democratic Symbol: The Finch." I'm getting kind of tired of being remembered by these Democrats only when their campaign coffers need refilling.
Or when they need another vote, despite people like me making up the nearly 90% who disapprove of the job Congress is doing.
But giving money to Moveon... Don't they also hand out large amounts of money to Democrats (which is probably the only reason the good ole boy network on the left side of the aisle tolerates them)? How do you know the money you give them won't go to someone undeserving of it?
I agree that we should take the money we'd planned to contribute to democratic candidates and, instead, send it to MoveOn.org so they can continue their outing of the fraud and criminal activities ongoing in this administration.
That and registering as an Independent, that is! When you do you will be unbelievably reprieved of the anger of these sycophantic, spineless, and now "complicit" democrats who are betraying the people day by day.
In 08, the I's will have even greater power. We are now at 35% - dwarfing the number of registered Repukes at this point by some 7 percentage points. The MSM will soon be forced to reckon with the Independent voters because we will soon compete with the number of registered democrats and may even eclipse them, if this "do nothing" congress continues to ignore the protests of the people.
That goes without saying for ALL candidates. There is no way the I's will fall for a candidate who refuses to listen to the people so overtly right now with their calls to end this war immediately. Ron Paul is beginning to gain traction with Independent voters and some disgusted democrats. He'd make one hellova Veep for Michael Bloomberg though and this pair could really clean up with 35% of I's and even some liberal republicans....could make the election very, very interesting.
My prediction is that none of the candidates on the radar right now represent THE PEOPLE which is why the people can't get excited about any one of them - on both sides of the aisle.
Just wait until Bloomberg throws his hat into the ring next Spring though. Then we'll see some rock 'n roll!
Check
Fook those backstabbers.
Read Wes Clark's opinion of the MoveOn ad:
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1467
H a l l e l u j a h !
This is not about the war in Iraq; it is not about respect for the military; it is not about terrorism; it is certainly not about patriotism. It is about Free Speech and nothing else (well, maybe a little hypocrisy). It is about the United States Senate deciding that it can penalize private citizens and groups for expressing their opinions.
You are sooo right, Nicole. I created a simple graphic message that everyone can use to let their feelings be known. It's a take off on the MoveOn ad. Help yourselves...
U.S. Congress Or U.S. Betray Us?
Are you guys crazy? Don't you understand that you've just been divided and are now in the process of being conquered? This is how the Republicans could win in '08, at which point I may seriously consider moving to Canada, or the Independent Republic of Vermont, if it exists.
MoveOn has become what it was created to destroy. It is the ultimate, sad irony. MoveOn has become FoxNews. That's right, the ad was a gift delivered on a silver platter that even Rove couldn't have better designed. They made the headline more powerful than the message, and when you do that (see FoxNews every minute of every day) the actual message (read: THE TRUTH, aka THE FACTS) get brushed aside, obscured, even omitted all together. Nobody cares what MoveOn was actually trying to say (the legitimate point that Petraeus was making himself a political lacky at the pleasure of the President), all anyone sees is that they were calling a well-respected General a traitor. And that my friends IS stupid. It's the kind of stupid I would expect from Fox and the Coulter crowd. But how sad to see this kind of irony.
You all have got to stick together and try to understand this all from the Democrats' perspective. Yes, they have a majority in both houses, but it's a small and virtually meaningless majority. They are not going to be able to correct the entire disastrous clusterfuck that is the past 6 years overnight. It's going to take years. So please, for America's sake stick with them, they won't be able to deliver any real results until they have the larger majority AND the presidency. Don't give up on them. I'm telling you, you all are making Rove smile and masturbate himself senseless to this bullshit.
STICK TOGETHER. STICK TOGETHER AND AGITATE, AGITATE, AGITATE.
Many of us must be having similar thoughts today. I received a request for a donation from the Democratic party and I turned them down and told them why.
Then I visited the MoveOn.org site and donated the money I would have given to the Democratic party to MoveOn.
There is one democrat that is unlike the others who is running for president. That is Dennis Kucinich. He is honest and the others are doing their best to keep him in the background. Media is cutting news concerning him, cutting him out of photographs etc. We need to take a longer look at Kucinich. He is straightforward and continually fights for the rights of the citizens of this country. He is worth at least looking at to see what everyone thinks and if you like what he stands for start to make noise that the others can't cover up!
I'm so disgusted with the spineless Dems that signed on to Cornyn's bullshit resolution I can't even see straight right now. They make me sick.
I am unemployed, and under $30k of credit card debt.
Yet I am so fed up, I am so angry, I am so quite frankly MAD at the democrats, that tonight I made my $10 donation to MoveOn.
Following this, I sent two emails to the DNC to let them know that I took the pledge to donate EXCLUSIVELY to Moveon from now on every month and to boycott the DNC. I also made a phone call to my senator and my house rep let them know about my decision.
I invite you to do the same: give $$ to Moveon, but also DO CALL the DNC to let them know about it.
I am sorry but we do not "let" the Republicans go apeshit. They do that whenever challenged. Wes Clark is wrong and that is his problem, not mine.
The Dems will get paid when they stop getting played.
Until then, nada.
I have been giving money to candidates for years by going thru Emily"s List or League of Concervation Voters. It is not foolproof, but it helps the candidates to know that their backers have specific issues that they rank above party loyalty. I always send back the DNC stuff with-I give thru Emily'sList scrawled across it. By the way, go Dennis!
> Are you guys crazy? Don’t you understand that you’ve just been divided and are now in the
> process of being conquered? This is how the Republicans could win in ‘08, at which point I may > seriously consider moving to Canada, or the Independent Republic of Vermont, if it exists.
So, your breaking point is a Republican victory in '08...at which point you will bail.
No one is driving me out of this country and no one is dividing me from my conscience. I will support the Democrats if and when they demonstrate a willingness to lead.
Of course they have a razor thin majority. Of course the Republicans will obstruct. No one is expecting them to overcome that.
But laying DOWN to it? Feh.
We're not in an election year. They have time to win us back. Throwing this "tantrum" a few months before the vote would be destructive of their chances.
Without pressure from their base, they will never do anything and the next president will inherit a bigger mess than she otherwise would.
This is not petulance. This is not taking our toys and going home. This is not allowing the Rethugs to split us. This is stating, clearly, what we need to stick together.
You want pragmatic politics? You want reason? Okay, reason with this: losing your base is no way to win an election, and tarting yourself up to be more presentable to Rethug voters is contemptible and unprincipled.
Give us something to vote for. You have time. No one is in a voting booth yet.
But don't demean our anger. Don't dismiss our disappointment. And don't condescendingly tell us that we have to vote the way you want us to.
And yes, I'd rather let the Republicans run everything into the ground than support this kind of naked capitulation. Pull up. You're heading for the ground.
Win us back.
DO SOMETHING!!!
Let's especially remember how the presidential contenders voted:
Clinton - nay (I suspect the HRCs vote was political after she spent all that time gushing about Petraeus; still it would have been easy to vote "not-voting" or even nay)
Dodd - nay (The more I see about Dodd
Obama - not voting (No points for wearing gloves so you don't leave finger prints, oh spineless one).
Biden - not voting (He's not a credible candidate anyway; not even for VP though I guess he could be the Democratic Quayle).
To all of you who compare this effort to voting for Nader, let me explain something to you: Our system occasionally provides the public with democratic channels so they can indirectly "participate" in the decision making process. When these channels open up (i.e. election day), by all means, vote for a top tier Democratic candidate. However, for grassroots efforts such as these, election day is everyday. Supporting progressive causes will not only popularize the best politicians, but it will also put pressure on the Democratic Party to do the right thing.
How is this possibly a bad thing?
MagnificentAppendage @ 65:
Wrong. Nobody on the democratic side is losing sleep over this ad, it's just there are some who think it was a bit much and some who don't. Nobody's opinions on the war have been changed.
"Betrayus" was a malapropism that the troops who served under him came up with. It's word play, and it was catchy, and the ad worked better than anyone could have ever imagined.
Most of the media has dropped this story by now, except for you-know-who.
Right on. This "shut up and trust our leader(s)" mentality is what has reduced the Republicans to their current sorry state and I'm not interested in goosestepping down that road.
Not for all the bridges in Minnesota.
Trust? Never again. Verify? Always.
And if your party needs a super-duper-extra-special-ultra-majority to get the barest thing done, then go hire Karl Rove.
joecitizen @ 76:
Actually, the first ten times i heard his name on the radio i thought i was hearing "General Betrayus." I had a hard tim figuring out what kind of cruel joke was being played on us.
Now i know.
I don't think it's wise or right to penalize Dennis Kucinich on this one. He speaks truth to power, and he gets the middle finger from corporate media.
On the bright side, I sent this to my republic senator, Gordon Flipper Smith:
Phantom @ 75:
Not a bad thing at all. But most of the haters don't advocate voting for a top tier democrat on election day. They hate and criticize, then they suggest that there is no difference between the Democratic party and the Republican party ... which IMO is an absurd comment.
I'm all for constructive criticism and activism inside the party. But the venomous hate directed at dems that is exhibited in threads like this is only rivaled by the most devisive right-wing haters.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding all of the hateful sentiment, and all of these people will indeed come together to defeat republicans in '08. But to read their comments, it's not a stretch to assume they advocate defeating Democrats in '08. I'm convinced that would be counter-productive.
Just donated $100. Put up, or shut up!
I hope we shall crush in its birth
the aristocracy of our monied corporations
which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength,
and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Thomas Jefferson
damn straight Nicole
spending mine on nookie
JasonS @ 77:
Dude. Never, never, never, nerver, never, never have I ever suggested anyone shut up and trust our leaders. My only point is, don't fuck yourself out of a chance to at least make an improvement. There isn't a single person running for office whom I trust. Not one.
So I say don't shut up. Don't trust anyone. But for the love of God, please do what it takes to get rid of the neo-fascist, social totalitarian republicans. And I'd like to know how you define "barest thing" and just what the hell Karl Rove has to do with accomplishing anything in congress as far as the Democrats go. Karl Rove was a lying propagandist. What does that have to do with the hopes that we can pull this country back from the edge by securing enough votes to keep the wolves from stopping us? That's like saying, "If your checking account needs a super-duper-blah-blah-blah deposit just to pay the barest expenses, the go hire Ken Lay."
tyree @ 84:
I'm with you, ree ree! Best idea so far.
>Maybe I’m misunderstanding all of the hateful sentiment, and all of these people will indeed
>come together to defeat republicans in ‘08. But to read their comments, it’s not a stretch to
>assume they advocate defeating Democrats in ‘08. I’m convinced that would be
>counter-productive.
No, I'm advocating that the Democrats stand up for what they say they believe in.
If this war is as WRONG as we all think and they all say they think it is, then to roll over like this is unconscionable.
I *want* them to do the right thing. I *want* to vote for the Dems. I *want* to believe that they're not just one of two franchises in the War Party.
But I'm not seeing what I need to see.
I'm not calling for anyone to do anything but vote their conscience. There is a strong, principled argument to support the Democrats. But there's also a strong, principled argument to withhold support for lack of action.
I know the Democrats will govern better than the Republicans, and I want to give them that chance.
I'm just not willing to sell my soul to do it.
It took thirty years of underhanded bullshit shenanigans by the neo-cons to get where they are now, unfortunately changing things back will not happen overnight; our system is designed to move slowly. It is going to be a very long slog to get back to even a resemblance of normalcy in this country. It is stupid to give up on the Democratic party now when they've started to make inroads. It is the war, not any individual battle that matters.
Heretic @ 81:
Put up or shut up? Really? Is that what putting up really is nowadays? I don't mean to demean your contribution, or your motive. But is that really what putting up is? If only ...
That's a little like saying you support the war, and that it's the most important war in a generation. Then driving around in your '91 Fort LTD with fourteen "patriotic" bumper stickers and telling everyone to put up or shut up.
beat you to it.
i don't donate anything to anyone except votevetsDOTorg, IAVA and move on. well the animal shelter but political, you know.