Who Wants To Be In Ben Stein's Movie?
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Sep 26, 2007 7:44pmRichard Dawkins doesn't. Especially when Stein and the producers pull a fast one and make a much different movie than the one they pitched to him.
NY Times: (reg. req'd)
A few months ago, the evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins received an e-mail message from a producer at Rampant Films inviting him to be interviewed for a documentary called "Crossroads."
The film, with Ben Stein, the actor, economist and freelance columnist, as its host, is described on Rampant's Web site as an examination of the intersection of science and religion. Dr. Dawkins was an obvious choice. An eminent scientist who teaches at Oxford University in England, he is also an outspoken atheist who has repeatedly likened religious faith to a mental defect.
But now, Dr. Dawkins and other scientists who agreed to be interviewed say they are surprised - and in some cases, angered - to find themselves not in "Crossroads" but in a film with a new name and one that makes the case for intelligent design, an ideological cousin of creationism. The film, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," also has a different producer, Premise Media.
The film is described in its online trailer as "a startling revelation that freedom of thought and freedom of inquiry have been expelled from publicly-funded high schools, universities and research institutions." According to its Web site, the film asserts that people in academia who see evidence of a supernatural intelligence in biological processes have unfairly lost their jobs, been denied tenure or suffered other penalties as part of a scientific conspiracy to keep God out of the nation's laboratories and classrooms.
Mr. Stein appears in the film's trailer, backed by the rock anthem "Bad to the Bone," declaring that he wants to unmask "people out there who want to keep science in a little box where it can't possibly touch God."
I have a t-shirt from Perrspectives that I love, which lists the Conservative Threat Advisory System. I'd say that Stein pushed the threat to "Severe," wouldn't you?
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Frits!!!!!!!!!!!
As I've said in another thread about Stein... Dawkins can easily wipe the floor with his ass in a debate.
Stein is the most irrelevant person I can think of - except for Dubya (maybe).
Win Ben Stein's ethics...
Army of Liars for God.
All my sins will be washed away by the fiery flames of Armegeddon.
if they had any thing to do with Ben Stein then it's their fucking problem. Hopefully they can't be fooled agin, as the preznut has said, or fool me twice, shame on me, as the saying actually goes.
@#2: Not when Stein is the one controlling the editing booth.
ThinkProgress mentioned last week (iirc) that Stein was producing this movie. Right around the time he defended Larry Craig on CBS's "Sunday Morning" show.
Didn't he watch the Fairly Odd Parents? Don't trust the Pixies...I mean Ben Stein.
Mr. Stein appears in the film’s trailer, backed by the rock anthem “Bad to the Bone,” declaring that he wants to unmask “people out there who want to keep science in a little box where it can’t possibly touch God.”
And did you tell Professor Dawkins the same thing Ben?
No? Ben.I would have thought a guy who wrote speeches for Richard Nixon would have been more on the old "up and up"...
ralph @ 7:
That's silly. Why should they be afraid of him? They were duped. that's the story - and it's hilarious. Especially the part abou the guy who was just "toeing the party line."
Who Wants To Be In Ben Stein’s Movie? ...........I DO!
The movie's tagline is hilarious:
"Big Science has expelled smart new ideas from the classroom"
Big Science? What the hell is Big Science? Is he trying to equate it with Big Oil and Big Pharma? Science expels no smart new ideas from the classroom, in fact it exists because of smart new ideas... you just need overwhelming evidence to back up your claims.
The tagline continues:
"What they forgot is that every generation has its Rebel..."
Leading to a picture of Ben Stein - Rebel without a Clue
Bueller..... Bueller..... Bueller.....
I wonder if they bothered to ask Ben about his beliefs in Jesus Christ...I mean I didn't think you could enter heaven without asking for his forgiveness.
Any notion that Ben Stein has gravitas or is to be taken seriously as an intellectual can safely be dispensed with. The money quote on this one is from the NYT:
No, Ben. After your team outright fucking lied to them about the premise of the movie I doubt any of them thought to double-check that they might be getting double-crossed.
Remember next time you want to listen to anything Ben Stein has to say: he's a god-damn liar.
Yes its gotten pretty ridiculous now that all you need to do to attack something is put "Big" in front of it.Just like selling cookies door to door is a plot by "Big Girl Scouts".
It's amazing that teaching scientific facts and observations in a classroom is consider a threat to the far-right wing of Christianity.
Hate to break the news to these people, but there is space for talk of intelligent design and creationism in the classroom - try the philosophy and/or mythology section, where it belongs.
Sarah @ 18:
It can be found in the fiction section of MY bookshelf.
Totally on par for B.S. and his group of loons that claim religion creates a moral society and shoves this kind of crap out the fully suspecting public. I put money on the fact that Dawkins will have his day with this group of trogladytes; assuming they are willing to put their "ethics" on the line. Nah...I don't think so, they knew what they were doing and it ties into some of what Dawkins has argued against. By duping Dawkins, they will now claim they have trapped the "Blind Watchmaker" for want of exposure and money. What a bunch of useless tools and the sad fact is that for some Americans, this is all they care about and want to be sold something so bad that they will believe anything, all the time screaming that the Christian nation is under attack.
Science has supported the hypothesis that the mind can be conditioned at a young age, and this is the type of spell being weaved in our society today. I've often thought why it was that a nun or anyother person of the cloth would be willing to tell parents not to raise their childern a certian way and then turn right around and commit such unspeakable acts as rape and molestation...in the case of a child it was mainly because the trust was abused and they knew exactly what they were doing. Hiding under the thin veil of religion will be the ultimate undoing of some of these hypocrites and I know it will one day.
They might want to take a note from history, it has proven that time and time again when religion reaches untolerable levels in our society that it is usually the younger generation that pushes it back. It seems very possible at this time that the generation pushing back is not only the younger generation, but it is made up of those that actually hold religious beliefs in some form or another.
Who wants to win Ben Stein's personality?
Looks like just another attempt by the Looney Right trying to pervert the minds of good people with non-sense (no offense to harmless religious people, this is targeting the people who are so self righteous that they don't anyone else their freedom of thought and freedom of faith. They always say people are trying to keep god out of it, how can they bring something so personal like a creator into the pettiness of everyday life? Your beliefs should be between you and whatever you believe in (or don't believe in) so to bring God into public life is not only an insult to your fellow humans but also to your God.
Sarah @ 18:
...and while they're at it, the rightwinged fringe might as well mix religion and math. Forget precise measurements! If the Bible says that approximations such as three for pi, and a cubit (length from elbow to wrist) for distance is good enough for God and men, then so be it!
Who wants to be in Ben Stein's pants?
Sounds actionable to me. Hopefully Dawkins, et al will soon make Ben Stein's Money theirs!
From the article:
How nice of the guy to concede that Darwin was probably onto something. Perhaps there should be a game show entitled Find Ben Stein's Brain.
No scientific, empirical fact necessarily leads to any normative conclusion. But to the extent that our moral sentiments are often hinged to facts, evolution ought to inspire feelings of kinship not only with human beings of different races, but with all life on this planet. I wonder how many people who disavow evolution actually understand it.
Blue Buddha @ 22:
Correction... a cubit is from the fingertips to elbow. Actually, wrist to elbow is about the same length as your foot.
slippytoad @ 16:
He was Nixon's lawyer/speech writer, that alone should pretty much qualify automatically anything this Stein dumbass writes or says as a lie.
Sarah @ 18:
Science and facts are to Christianity, as bright light and raid are to cockroaches.
I have one word for these scientists:
Lawsuit.
Ben Stein looks like a monkey, he is the walking proof that we indeed evolved from some primate a few eons ago. Looking at himself in the mirror and coming to that realization must piss off this wanker to extent.
What this movie is -- and most of his opinion pieces can fall into this category too -- is the human equivalent of slinging feces around, much like chimps do back in the jungle. I just want to see how Ben Stein would react to a banana. Seeing his reaction would prove most of my suspicions about him being the sought after missing link.
Jesús @ 30:
It is interesting to note that humans did not evolve FROM apes as is commonly (and mistakenly) said. We evolved WITH apes. There is a rather large difference.
This is what forces intelligent men like Richard Dawkins to consent only to live, unedited interviews.
Ben Stein is a jerk who probably thought Borat was real.
When you support a dishonest ideology the way Stein does, you have to resort to lying and trickery to in order to advance it and full the ignorant base.
Stein is a Nixon scumbag. Do we really expect anything less of him?
He's a tricky Dick head.
My only question is why would Dawkins agree to be in a production promoted by a well-known piece of human garbage like Ben Stein? Google him up next time, Richard.
OxyCon @ 33:
Yes, surely the least respectable President in recent American history.
Save one.
Can we please just give these lunatics their own little country and let them go hog wild with their Christain Taliban vision? They aren't going to be happy until they make that happen somewhere.
With all this new publicity people will want to see the movie to see what ding bat crazy shit comes out in between the interviews with the real scientists. Before all the print about this movie it would have died a quick and unknown death.
Teachers are hired to teach a curriculum. Those who cannot in conscience do so should protest and if necessary resign. Those who would opt to substitute their personal convictions for the curriculum they are obliged to teach should be fired. It only becomes a matter of academic freedom when a teacher is restrained in how to teach the curriculum regarding matters of fact or accepted standards of professionalism.
Gee dishonesty from xians? That's new.
It's really good to see them so terrified that their little sponge minions might hear something new and start *gasp* thinking!
Oh WOE are the holy folks! Why must the great gord in heben test their faith with all these annoying FACTS!
Mean old science! Why can't everyone just believe in the scary stuff we tell you and OBEY!
This isn't unique to this situation. "The Global Warming Swindle" also used similar tactics to get well respected scientists to "disprove" global warming then used pundits to put the "science" in context.
I am an atheist, but I have no problems with any religion; however, when religion gets in the way of science then it is a problem.
Fantastic. They made an enemy out of Richard Dawkins - the man who earned the name "Darwin's Rottweiler." I'm going to laugh as he intellectually castrates them.
ben stien would suck the foreskin off an orangatang and come back for seconds!
Further evidence of the GOPs War on Science/War on Public Education.
One fact that the Ben Steins of the world choose to ignore is that if Charles Darwin had never been born we would still be teaching evolution
in our science curriculum. It was not Darwin postulating on his discoveries that led to the discovery of evolutionary processes as much as objective scientific methods of inquiry that later proved Darwins theory currect.
BTW Evolution is a general term that refers to various methods of species modifications through time.
I, along with a few others, have been hammering the crackpot creationists over at the IMDB message boards.
These crackpots are not scientists, they are not interested in anything scientific. They are only interested in promoting religious bullshit through science classrooms in a desperate attempt to save their invisible sky genie politics from total obsolescence.
Funny how some people are talking about how terrible public education is in this country, but are found out to be the ones responsible for cutting funding. And the only time they add money to the public school system is to promote their religious ideas as science. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think taking quotes out of context in order to promote an opposite view warrants a lawsuit. The misquoted scientists should sue to get all their clips and insane extrapolations from their claims taken from the movie.
We were all born atheists and most people are brainwashed into believing in a god. The catholic church even has the gall to state that if they've trained someone to believe by age seven they've got em for life.
Dawkins is right in likening religious faith to a mental defect. Maybe humans have developed this defect after so many thousands of years of this crap being shoved down their throats, almost an evolutionary change developed by repitition.
It's 2007 wake up world, we know better now.
If your out of Xanax and having trouble sleeping, just listen to Ben Stein for a little while. You'll be unconscious before you know it. The guy looks like a crooked CPA.
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We have a criminal President who lies through his teeth, a Government that trips over itself trying keep it's people blind-folded and gagged and ultra-fundamentalists still trying to stuff intelligent design and creationism down peoples throats whether we want it or not. The ones who really suffer.....the kids. They are growing stupid and confused. It's part of the plan. Keep people just smart enough to read and follow instructions so they can work for the rich people at six dollars an hour, but not so smart that they will question their masters. If things keep going the way they are, people of this country will end up being drones that exist solely to serve the rich elite.
Neither Dawkins nor I were told that Ben Stein had anything to do with the movie (and Dawkins did not have any idea who Stein was, even after he was told). They had a fake web site with a different movie listed to cover their butts and hide their true intent, so googling did no good.
They planned their deception very carefully and very thoroughly.
xoites defends Constitution @ 31:
I guess I meant simians, mea culpa. Although whether we evolved WITH or FROM apes is still open to discussion, BTW.
A libertarian was trying to tell me that Ben Stein would make a great president. This is a guy who cannot stand the religious-right. He could not believe Ben Stein was a suck-up to the religious-right.
Ben Stein is little more than warmed-over phlegm.
Thou Sall Not Lie.
Following up on Otay at #51: since when does Ben Stein throw his lot in with the I.D. charlatans, anyway? He's a pseudo-intellectual jackass, but suddenly he's an Intelligent Design advocate? It seems uncharacteristically desperate.
Jonathan Frakes looked about as laughable hosting the alien autopsy 'documentary' on Fox. With any luck, Stein's career will follow a similar trajectory.
Ben Stein is a complete sleazebag - ask any girl at Pepperdine or anywhere else in Los Angeles whom he has invited to his house under some lame ass premise just to chase them around and hit on them relentlessly.
Complete and utter sleaze - i have first hand experience with this guy. Another 2 bit, moralizing right wing, hypocrite.
Smack_dab @ 35:
I know the perfect place for them. It's called Iraq.
back when Ben had his Comedy Central show, I thought he was just an old-school Republican. Turns out he's kept up with the times and he's as raving loony insane as any modern neo-con.
The way I understand it, there was a common ancestor. It's the difference between cousins and grandparent/grandchild.
Sounds like Stein is using Michael Moore tricks. Funny.
Well, then we arrive at the same spot we always do: can they prove their theory? Can they empirically defend what they see? It isn't valid science otherwise.
Einstein believed in God, but he was smarter than allowing his religion to provide an easy means to an end. To him, the equations had to make sense, they had to stand up to scrutiny. There was no flexibility on this point. God, as master mathematician, would not have allowed it. So what they call a 'conspiracy' probably has a lot more to do with basic academic standards.
I think that's the crux of it; they have such difficulty accepting that God is not the default belief system on those occasions when scientific theories are either disproved or inherently unprovable. They see it as a social-convincing challenge and nothing more; that, as in politics, debunking the other guy achieves the same end as promoting yourself. An I.D. advocate would say: Astrophysicists can't prove black holes exist because we've never gone to one. While technically true, the physics equations still lend support for it.
But either way you cut it, I.D. remains inherently unsupportable bunk. And I think that frustrates them severely. Their belief system doesn't benefit when proposed scientific theories fail scrutiny, and they see that dynamic as an injustice to them.
Dawkins is the opposite of some hysterical anti-theologian. He's more open minded than the myopic and obvious game show host and Nixon bitch Ben Stein, who spent most of the 80's pursuing bad Hollywood development deals.
Ben Stein is a no good sorry Nixon appeaser that worshipped the ground Nixon walked on. He certainly tested the limits as to how far one can put his head up someone's ass.
But he was so entertaining on Win Ben Stein's Money.
I really don't understand him. Stein's Jewish, right? I've always considered creationism to be strictly a fundamentalist Christian effort to impose their worldview. What is it about Christian fundamentalism that the Jewish Stein finds so appealing?
superdude...Christian fundamentalists are a big cash cow that many people like Stein manipulate and exploit. For example -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig
Karen #24:
Once again, you're brilliant. Fine job.
moonsha: I'm aware of the "Left Behind" faction of Christianity's support for Israel, but Jewish support for something that so blatantly undermines their religious freedom is something I have never seen before, not even from Joseph Lieberman.
FUCK ben stein!
Look a little closer. I was walking through an airport when I noticed the front of something like New Scientist, may have been. The magazine said on the front cover: "Science the New Religion". That's just the issue there analyzing the religion with the logic of science is as pointless as analyzing science with the logic of religion. All forms of logical thinking require the ability to follow rule based thinking. And to give credit or entrust there are truths in these systems is in fact faith. Faith in Scientific process, faith in Jesus, faith in Vishnu seem like forms of logic that diverge from one another. Look a little closer, they converge in you. Keep your mind nimble there are truths in many things.
This was just blow back. Science's roots were started in religion and politics. A great process for understanding our developing world around us. It's not the end all. The new evangelical scientist faith seems a bit less humble than the truly valuable tenants of the faith. Of course we see the the same sort from other faiths.
annoy: (#67)
You can drift into the purely theological as so many have before here, and have fun with that.
But I'm not taking the bait. Science says "prove it," and these people in particular aren't prepared to do that in any sincere way, nor apparently is Ben Stein. I.D. has already been revealed as a sham by one of its own chief promoters. (see C&L article: "Teaching Trouble in Texas", S. Benen)
It's an organized political attack by resources exclusively within the right wing and nothing more. Based on what we know about I.D., that's as much recognition of their principles as I think the group warrants.
It just goes to show that Atheists are open trusting people whereas a POS like Ben Stein needs to be bitch slapped by his pool boys Gannon and Bush if he really wants to entertain and bemuse us with his insignificant intellect.........smarmy Stein has already been relegated to community access cable as she/he deserves......I hope that Dawkins sues the snot out of Stein and company as it is the only punishment they understand
Dawkins has a pretty good case for RICO fraud.
Funny. Stein's column in the NYT Sunday Business section is often an honest, heartfelt critique of Republican and contemporary capitalist values.
Mr. Stein appears in the film’s trailer, backed by the rock anthem “Bad to the Bone,” declaring that he wants to unmask “people out there who want to keep science in a little box where it can’t possibly touch God.”
Speaking of little boxes and touching god -- how old is Ben Stein and how much longer are we going to have to listen to his bullshit?
You lie down with dogs, etc.
Stein worked for Nixon, for chrissakes, so why would anyone expect honesty and candor from him?
Folks...this is real simple....
Richard Dawkins - 2 PHDs in science & philosophy, been a scientist his entire life
Ben Stein - BA in economics, law degree from Yale
Richard Dawkins - currently holds the prestigious Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford.
Ben Stein - currently the host of VH1s "America's Most Smartest Model"
I REPORT....YOU DECIDE....
You wanna teach intelligent design in schools, claiming your "freedome of inquiry" is violated? Fine, then teach the "alternative theory" that the holocaut was a hoax. Discuss.
Blue Buddha @ 25:
Correction... a cubit is from the fingertips to elbow. Actually, wrist to elbow is about the same length as your foot.
If that's as big as your foot, you've got some big freaking feet!
Just for fun here's lil' Ben's "Expelled" web site. Be sure to read the comments where Ben gets reamed again and again. Stein is a whore I knew that when i saw his ass-holary seafood commercial.
First, it was "Win Ben Stein's Money". All that gave us was Jimmy Kimmel and "The Man Show"
Now, it's "Who wants to be in Ben Stein's Movie?"
I say we follow this up with "Who Wants to Whip Ben Stein's Ass?"
Creationists can't compete in the realm of science (peer-reviewed papers, journals, etc.) so they have to resort to lying and trickery in the realm of public opinion. Pathetic.
Ben Stein the eyewash guy? I see his interests are wide ranging.
Proof that right-wing zealots will stoop to any level, no matter how low, to promote their radical agenda.
annoy @ 67:
This is a common misconception. Many individuals are hysterically trying to assault science/atheism by dubbing this all a 'new religion,' even though atheism in and of itself is the antithesis of organised religion.
I don't need to have faith in science, because "faith" is belief without evidence. We have an incredible amount of evidence. And what's more important is that science is rooted in healthy scepticism, with individuals constantly attempting to challenge what we believe to be fact. It evolves as we do. Science is literally synonymous with knowledge.
brantl @ 76:
If that's as big as your foot, you've got some big freaking feet!
"Big Science"
Thank god for Stein... I too am sick and tired of this Big Science "theory" (and it IS only a theory) of gravity suppressing my god given right to fly from my 12th story office building to avoid all of the gridlock on the freeways below (how many of those cars are being driven by illegal aliens BTW).
Come hold hands with me Ben and together we will FLY!!!
On the Ben Stein website, some of the Xians have written how glad they are that a movie will support their idea of, get this, "intellectual freedom". The longer they hold on to their foolish superstitions, the weirder and more dangerous they become.
revko @ 84:
I'm sick of the theory of relativity that is being pushed on us by Big Science. Sure, GPS units need it to work, but why should we have the ability to navigate reliably using crazy scientific theories when we could just navigate by the sun as it orbits the earth?
bob h @ 71:
Tailoring the message to fit the audience. Stein is a shameless huckster, he has said so himself on NPRs Motley Fool.
Willy Kristol use to sandbag on many "liberal"shows until he could not keep the charade going.
All of these neo-cons tailor their message for their current audience, and can switch 180 degrees for the next audience.
The entire Faux Noise propoganda machine was more moderate in the beginning than it is now.
Case in point: Bill O'Reilly created a following by saying he was an Independant and carried his audience of sheep along with him as he continued to swing further to the right.
I was an early Bildo watcher until I noticed what he was doing and I baled on his ass.
Watch Faux Noise now and you will not find a moderate or liberal or progressive with a coherant and appealing message.
I would venture that Cavuto and Beck were sandbaggers early on too.
Thank God I'm an atheist
Rusty Shackleford@86 and others...
Since I now know the earth is flat, am I on the "heads" side or the "tails" side? Inquiring minds want to know.
annoy @ 67:
I see this argument a lot, that we have "faith" that science is true. This definition of faith, that you can't truly prove anything as fact, is flawed as it is so broad that it loses all meaning. I don't have "faith" that when I drop a rock, gravity pulls it down. This is such an established phenomenon that it transcends faith and does indeed become fact. It really begs the question how do religious zealots distinguish between fact and faith? They have faith in god, but also state that it is a fact he exists. They use conflicting definitions to describe the same thing. If you truly believe god is a fact, then it is no longer faith. If it is faith, then you don't know it for a fact. It's either intellectual dishonesty or a severe lacking of proper language skills.
Every time they come up with that faith thingy, we should ask them, "Well, how often did you drop God?"
stonicus @ 90:
Actually, faith is belief without evidence. As in, any evidence at all.
Any time anyone, anywhere encounters Ben Stein they are commanded to make monkey sounds. That's the rule!!
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