Democrats Debate In Philly: Kucinich Calls For Reality in Iraq and Impeachment Of President Bush!
By Logan Murphy Monday Oct 29, 2007 9:00pm
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After being snubbed for some fifteen minutes in tonight's Democratic Presidential Debate, Rep. Dennis Kucinch breaks his MSNBC-imposed silence by railing on the Bush administration's war rhetoric on Iran. Kucinich not only called for Democrats to reject any movement toward war with Iran, he went on to call for the impeachment of President Bush. If the media was looking for a candidate to set themselves apart from the "front runners," Kucinich did just that.
Kucinich: " Tim, we're here in Philadelphia, the birthplace of democracy. I want to know when this Democratic Congress is going to stand up for the Constitution and hold the president accountable with Article 2, Section 4 an impeachment act. I think that our democracy is in peril and unless the Democrats and the Congress stand up for the Constitution, we are going to lose our country."
Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!
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impeach somebody!
...and watch the congress and MSM ignore it.
Yeah. I never thought I'd say this...but he's got my vote. He's the only one unequivocally against the war. And now, to say the I-word for bush...finally!!! Dennis, here's a vote in Virginia.
Where the hell was the applause on calling for impeachment???
he appears to have the biggest set of balls, but could he win???
Holy crap, Batman!!! Nancy must be having panic attacks in her Georgetown condo.
The mouth-breathing-knuckle-draggers are going to be all over this tomorrow.
Mouth-Breathing-Knuckle-Draggers:see; Republican, Neo-con.
def: One whose views lean towards the
extreme right. A malcontent.
:see; Dipshit.
Yeah Impeach for history's sake and for the future "commanders in chief" so they know there is some limit to what they can do.
That includes democrats too! Stop the madness, we are a nation of laws!
Best person running. Right on Dennis.
Kucinich has been consistent in his message. He has been pushing the impeachment thing. I think that he is right. Nancy and Harry are too wimpy to stand up for the constitution.
Guess what? We're going to lose our country, already have lost it to the Corps & the neoCons. The Dems are part of the problem, just write your "Democratic" about the pressing issues of the day and see what kind of canned response you get.
Kucinich is the sh*t!
john bourne harbour @ 4:
No. The Dems are not wimpy, they're sold out. Keep up a good front of an opposition and let the facists rule and you get a piece of the pie, right?
Kucinich for President!
What's with the end of the 2nd section of the debate.
"Now we're going to have a special section on religion" "Obama, what do you think about people calling you Osama" And that's it for that. Now to a commercial. That was really stupid.
Also, why is every question about Clinton (even the ones directed at her). Nobody can talk about their issues except by framing them in the context of Clinton's. I love that they made Iran such a big issue, but the constant attention on Clinton built into every question is getting really annoying.
NBC isn't doing well at all.
YAH KUCINICH! THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING BOUT YO RIGHT THERE!!
Kucinich is da' man ...........
Vote Kucinich!
The applause was deafening
Right on, Dennis. Also, consider: Laugh Bush out of the White House
Since Mr. Bush has become quite testy in recent days, and since he does not really seem to be enjoying himself much in the White House, he probably just needs a little encouragement to leave the premises permanently.
So if we each take just fifteen seconds every Saturday to laugh Bush out of the White House, it may be the beginning of the end for his miserable regime.
If you're not up to fifteen long seconds of laughter in public, make a little sign that says "Laugh Bush out of the White House" (LBOOTWH) LBOOTWH and put it on your lapel. Put a sign in your car's side window (if it's behind the driver, it won't obstruct vision) or put one in a front window or your house or apartment. Or make and print out a bumper strip on your computer. Or send Emails to young and old, Ha, ha, ha, Laugh Bush out of the White House, ha, ha, ha. This is a great opportunity to practice different kinds of laughs. Low bassy laughs or high snickers, your choice. Divisive laughs. Derisive laughs. Sneers. Remember, "Practice makes Perfect." Many of us have not had much to laugh about in the 21st century; so, maybe, this will be our chance to laugh to take back America.
Eventually, even the extremely dense Mr. Bush may finally get the message and head south to the vast pampas of Paraguay. There is a lot of brush that needs cutting, down there, Sir. Those Paraguayan pampas grasses are very overgrown and could use some serious trimming, Sir.
Please feel free to copy and spread this message across America: from Sea to shining Sea. Let America return to being Beautiful again.
john bourne harbour @ 4:
Yes. He can if he gets the nomination. After President Constitution Shredder there is not one Republican who can beat any Democrat for President. Vote for Kucinich in the Primary and watch Congress wake the fuck up!
AMEN SISTA
We seriously need to get this guy in the White House.
The only horse in the race that gets it right! Impeachment isn't about getting Bush it's about protecting America and the American way of life!
Yeah. Kucinich is rapidly rising in my estimation.
And Hillary can go get fucked. Triangulating milquetoast.
"Oh! He is unelectable."--You say.
Yeah most people are idiots. I am voting for him anyway. At least my conscience is clear. May the best man win.
Stay strong Dennis!
"Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it."
-Einstein
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears. To be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool. To be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. To be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to. To be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery."--OCTAVIA BUTLER
Alright Dennis! Vote for him in the primaries!
I Completely agreed with what he said. He is somewhat similar to Ron Paul in the Republican side. I wish them both Good Luck in the Election.
+1 for Kucinich
"let freedom ring"... the Man is on fire!
kaT @ 10:
............ along those lines I sent an email to Harry Reid's office imploring him to uphold the hold and explaining that there is a separation of powers and you have caved into the White House repeatedly, I muss've mentioned Senator Dodd's name several times. I got a response back and the canned reply was about SIGNING STATEMENTS and Reid's objection to them. I juss get the feeling that they don't even care what the rabble thinks and that Congress is now of by and for the corporations and their interests and constitutional protections are how would Abu Gonalez put it? QUAINT.
rtemp @ 22:
hear hear my brotha'
Finally.
Kucinich has a nice FLILF.
First Lady I'd like to Fu#$
[deleted - please don't post the same thing in different threads.]
xoites defends Constitution @ 20:
Ron Paul would beat Hillary. The closest race would be between Paul n Kucinich.
I hope he doesn't fly on any small planes.
kaT @ 10:
Your right! it's gotten to the point where the only way to save our democracy is to wipe it out, not violently or anything like that but clear the slate - get rid of the Dems and the Repugs and start fresh...Tabula Rasa - then we start not by eliminating the separation of Church and State but you add a separation of Corporation and State. This would stop lobbyists this would stop corporations from being considered persons, this would stop the direction our burning country is headed in and it would give us hope...
hope...the one thing that corporate America and the political parties don't want us to have.
Kucinich: ” Tim, we’re here in Philadelphia, the birthplace of democracy.
Reality check.
The concept of democracy first appeared in Ancient Greek political and philosophical thought. The philosopher Plato contrasted democracy, the system of "rule by the governed", with the alternative systems of monarchy (rule by one individual), oligarchy (rule by a small élite class) and timarchy (rule by one race or nationality over another).
other than that it was refreshing to hear some say impeachment :)
Truth Be Told @ 36:
I find it diffucult to fathom the Republicans nominating Paul.
Thank you Dennis Kucinich! It's about fucking time somebody started speaking the truth at these so called "debates". Why the hell isn't the debate being shown on the networks? I think I know the answer to that question, but Bill Moyers will have more info about that on "The Bill Moyers Journal" on PBS this coming Friday night.
Gekke @ 39:
Perhaps he meant to say, ”Tim, we’re here in Philadelphia, the birthplace of American democracy."
ahhh..the voice of one crying in the wilderness....falling on deaf ears...be prepard...bush and cheney arn't leaving...
Both Kucinich & Ron Paul seem to be the reasoned candidates. Ironically, both are deep outsiders. What does that say about the state of politics?
Such a shame that the "gate crashers" of the progressive movement spent the summer convincing their readership that Kucinich is "unelectable".
Gekke @ 39:
I think he meant modern democracy, but you have a good point.
I wonder what this country is going to do if these two knuckleheads in power try and pull a presidential coup? I know nobody has any idea what to do if that happens, Bush and Cheney could certainly do it (it's not beyond them) and they have a private army to fight for them, a private army that could be in a lot of trouble if these two boobs ever leave office. not to mention the 23% who will stand by these criminals no matter what!
But, on a positive note, I believe in my country and my countrymen (don't ask me why) AND I believe that a presidential coup would be the end of the Republican party for ever...and that's not to bad a deal.
Beelzebud @ 45:
Hmmmmm. You got to wonder why?
Operation Mockingbird come to roost again? Cointelpro-like DLC-sponsored keyboard commandos?
And this is why the Presstitutes always try their hardest to minimize Kucinich's time on the air. They know that the more people hear him, the more people will vote for him. And that scares him all the way down to their kneepads.
er, him -> them
All I heard was "Constitution... International law... Impeachment... Constitution..." Wash, rinse, repeat. What the hell does intl law have to do with the Constitution?
Kucinich is a loser and has the support to prove it.
Kucinich sees what's going on and he wants to bring back the country our founders imagined.
Forget Nancy and Harry for help. They've already sold out.
BC @ 43:
Absolutely nothing. It speaks volumes on the media that ignores them and Gravel.
Stan @ 50:
When our government signs a treaty of international law, our Constitution states that it becomes the law of our land.
That's what it has to do with the Constitution.
ecthompson @ 9:
He has been consistent, but this statement is a rarity to hear in debate.
Web Geek @ 53:
Show me that treaty.
stan, why do you hate america? im sure your radical muslim brothers would welcome you back to the mutha land.
I am a huge bigot when it comes to short people, or, as I like to call them, shorties. They are all guilty until proven innocent. Dumbya is one, and he turned out to be a nearly human-sized douche nozzle. DK is "one of the good ones." He could be like Napoleon, but a good guy.
Nice to see someone have the balls to address the elephant in the room (ahem :-) ).
So now we'll get to see whether the MSM reports Kucinich's comments or not.
Which do you think is more likely:
A: The MSM note Kucinich's comments and start a discussion of the war and impeachment.
B: They report Kucinich's comments but state they're a left-wing fringe view that can't win and most Americans don't support.
C: They ridicule Kucinich, but for other comments or behaviors ("He believes in *space aliens* - and he thinks *Bush* is crazy!"), thus implicitly ridiculing his position on impeachment and the illegality of the war - but carefully not mentioning it at all.
D: They ignore Kucinich completely.
E: Something else
I'm hoping for A. :-)
Thanks for modeling leadership and character, Rep. Kucinich. Every time someone - any of us - does that, we reclaim a little bit of our country.
BTW, Bush is easily diagnosed as mentally ill - just lookup "antisocial personality disorder" and "symptoms." Diagnosis code is 301.7 in the DSM-IV.
Ha! I love America, and would hate to see it wasted away wtih statism from socialists like you and neocons like Bush.
Stan @ 55:
Article VI, paragraph 2 actually stipulates on the issue: "...all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution [of any State] or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
[deleted - Sitemonitor - now now, little winger, please read the commenting policy.]
stan, it sounds like you hate what this country stands for... your kool-aid carrying form is perfect! I'll give you a 10!
Yes!! Dennis is the ONLY Presidential candidate who is in tune with this country. But because of the way television and the papers work, he'll get shunted aside and we'll end up with the same shit we've had since 2000, only with a different name and party label.
web_geek @ 59:
I know the Constitution. Show me the ratified treaty that takes away our sovereignty in the name of international feel-goodiness.
web_geek @ 59:
below_me @ 61:
I stand for the same things our founders stood for... free markets and free people, free from government intrusion, which you guys have no problem with as long as it comes from a Democrat.
Stan @ 63:
Look up the UN Charter. It was and is an illegal war.
I think Dennis would have a good chance if he had a 10mil war chest. I would pledge a $100 if he could collect 10000 more pledges of $100. If he could start somthing like this I think it would take off. Look at Dod he stood up and raised 15000 over night. And to think Cliniten sold out for 87k to the telcoms. Cheep cheep.
Vote your hopes in the primary and your fears in the final one!
Dodd for President!
Stan @ 65:
When did Republicans get addicted to glue?
Stan #63 you seemed confused. Any treaty we engage in requires that we takeit seriously, andif we chose to ignore it to express our "sovereignity" then we break the law. We've signed an international treaty that we wont torture. We're now breaking that law.
Stan @ 65:
Bullshit again, you don't read this blog much do you?
You're obviously a Ann Rand-cryto-facsist, who wants to derail this thread. Ignore him please.
Beelzebud @ 44:
Yes I noticed that Beelzebud and could not understand it. I suppose he will not be "allowed" to be nominated or if he is the same type of people who took care of JFK and Bobby will make sure he comes to the same fate.
Bless him for at least saying it like it is.
Seeing a UFO means that you saw an object flying that you couldn't identify. Nothing more or less.
[refers to deleted post]
so its much more logical to impeach a prez for lying about a bj in the oval office and allowing a gaggle of crooks who have raped the treasury of this great nation in order to enrich a few of their pals and have used an illegal war, torture and illegal wiretaps to do it
god, you wingnuts fuckin kill me
every single one of you is an evil bastard who rejoices in the destruction of this once great country
Utterly impeccable logic, and the scum on the stage with him just shrug it off as quaint populism.
CHIMPEACH!
Stan @ 50:
Treaties are the highest law in this country.
That is what int'l law and our constitution have to do with each other.
...and Kucinich has won at every level, local, state and federal and has served in all three branches!
He is not ever a loser.
...think about it for a bit.
The UN Charter is a treaty granted... but active defense of a nation is very legal, based upon what was known then. We can't arbitrarily and retroactively make things illegal.
And what's wrong with freedom... as in free markets and free people??? How is that fascism?
Stan @ 65:
So does Kucinich. Wake up. Corporate greed is not free market economics. And we are slaves to the corporations. Government is the tool with which we must reclaim our sovereignty. If you think keeping our drinking water clean is not the job of our government, then Ron Paul is your guy. That's why Libertarians are out of the loop and Kucinich is a Democrat.
Kuch looked much more presidential tonight. He was animated, yet focused. I'm glad he didn't whip out his pocket constitution this time. But the media has already marginalized him and the sheeple will doze on.
it nice....but dennis is just trying to get noticed
so he will get tons of air time tonite and tomorrow as the wingnuts say that he cant be trusted with the nation's security
and listen closely as they start a new domino theory
iran goes nuke, then the saudis, then egypt
the fact remains, as shown in the frontline special, it is the bush administration's fault that the current regime is in power....and they wanted it that way, for the only way to continue the military industrial complex is to bring back the cold war
Article 2 Section 4 sez: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. My only beef with Kuncinich is his "f" rating with Gun Owners of America...meaning he's following the Constitution in response to the criminal Executive, yet complicit with the gun grabbers on the 2nd Ammendment??? Please vote for Hillary so that we can all feel like background actors working with Richard Burton in "1984", he he..Vote Ron Paul..
Ain't any other candidates going this way?
No, well then the little man with the pretty wife gets my vote and my money.
If it ain't impeachment it ain't shit.
STAN meet RANDY, RANDY meet STAN.
Little man, big balls.
Hillary is part of the problem.
Hillary rhymes with Bush, the establishment candidate and choice of big businesses all over the world.
Stan @ 50:
You need to read Jefferson's writings on treaties and international relations.
I'm proud to have a Kucinich '08 bumper sticker on my truck window. He's the ONLY real politician who serves his constituents. Go Dennis! You should be the next Prez!!!!!
Yes, but Kos said "Ugh"! Didn't you get the memo?
Stan @ 63:
Sovereignty? You're a horse's ass.
Here's a beginner for you:
The United Nations Charter was concluded “to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind” and the United Nations was established with the purposes:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
Article 2(3) requires that all members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered and Article 2(4) requires that all members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
The ICJ in the Nicaragua case was in no doubt as to the status of the prohibition on the use of force: [9]
“The Court finds that both Parties take the view that the principles as to the use of force incorporated in the United Nations Charter correspond, in essentials, to those found in customary international law…. They therefore accept a treaty-law obligation to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations…
http://www.globelaw.com/Iraq/Preventive_war_after_iraq.htm
I'm not doing your homework for you tonight.
Che's Lounge @ 81:
Government should be limited. I fear an Orwellian state, which has no competitors, versus huge monopolies where competition is at least possible and they don't have the force of law. Your Marxist rhetoric is unsettling... Stalin, Mao, Castro, they're all horrible.
Kudos to Kucinich for calling for impeachment. I'm tired of the excuses people like Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders use against impeachment