Elliot Spitzer says Lou Dobbs spreads venom and hate on CNN!
By John Amato Monday Oct 29, 2007 4:45pm
NY Governor Elliot Spitzer lashed out at CNN's resident immigration-man Lou Dobbs on "American Morning," and called out CNN for allowing him on the air. He's taking heat because he "wants to give driver’s licenses to undocumented immigrants, which of course makes him the devil."
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SPITZER: Look, I'm not going to demean myself by getting into a back and forth with somebody who on TV spews venom, hate and fundamental misinformation. Of course not. He knows it.
As I said, it's beneath me, it's beneath my office, to, in any way, involve myself with Lou Dobbs. And I think his knowing spread of venom is beneath CNN as well.
You can't say he had "no comment" about ole Lou. (h/t CNN's American Morning for the full transcript below the fold)
h/t CNN for the transcript:
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: There is some controversy swirling around New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, first for proposing a plan that would let illegal immigrants get driver's licenses. And then he changed the plan over the weekend, so now there's some new criticism from immigrant advocates who say it would unfairly target illegals.
New York Governor Eliot Spitzer joins be now to talk about it.
Thanks for being with us, first of all, Governor.
GOV. ELIOT SPITZER (D), NEW YORK: My pleasure. Good to be here.
CHETRY: So your original plan would have given illegal immigrants the same driver's license as everyone else. And that was highly criticized. In fact, 72 percent of New Yorkers polled said they were opposed to that plan.
Then you announced a new plan over the weekend. The editorial board of "The New York Times" called it caving.
So are you caving or are you just listening to the will of the people?
SPITZER: Well, in a way, neither. What we are trying to do, first of all, is address a problem that the federal government has created, which is that there are one million people here in New York state alone who are not here with proper documentation, but they're here.
We want security. We want our roads to be safe, which is the initial impetus behind letting them get a license so we know who they are, where they are. They can get insurance, everybody is safer.
Security experts agree with that premise. Seven other states do it.
That is the initial objective.
What we've tried to do is do it in a way that does not create a structure that makes them feel targeted, creates security. Now, what we did over the weekend was reach an agreement with the director of Homeland Security on a structure that he said would make the New York license among the most secure in the nation.
That is what we are trying to do, provide security, documentation, know who is here. And what we have accomplished, I believe, is a compromise that does all of those things.
CHETRY: Unfortunately, you're getting criticism from the other side now because the immigration advocates are saying that because this license that only illegals or undocumented would qualify for...
SPITZER: No. Can I interrupt for one second? Because that is a fundamental misconception. This is a license. One would be what we would call a Real ID license...
CHETRY: right.
SPITZER: ... that would satisfy the federal Real ID statute.
CHETRY: Which they can't qualify for if they're undocumented.
SPITZER: That's right, because they -- but another license that I would get that would be a New York state license that everybody would qualify for with documentation, but it would not be limited to illegal immigrants at all. It would...
CHETRY: Wait, hold on. You're saying you would get the one...
SPITZER: Absolutely.
CHETRY: ... that says right clearly on it, not for U.S. government use? That would be...
(CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: No, no, no, no, no. It would say not valid for federal ID.
And the reason is I have a passport, I have all sorts of other documentation.
The other one might cost more. It will be different, more difficult to get.
There will be two separate licenses. One that satisfies a federal Real ID statute, the other that doesn't. It would not be one license just for illegal immigrants.
CHETRY: So you disagree with the assertion that, hey, if you can get a license that clears you to go to Canada, that clears you to travel with ease, why wouldn't you get that one, as opposed to the one where only illegals would qualify for?
SPITZER: Many reasons. And that has been the record that has been established so far.
A Real ID license that people will get if they want to have perhaps an easier time at an airport. Another one if you already have a passport.
You will not need to pay the extra fees, et cetera. So, two separate licenses. Both valid, both legitimate.
CHETRY: Now, critics are calling the plan confusing and a bureaucratic nightmare. Is it practical to try to implement...
SPITZER: Sure it is.
CHETRY: ... three different licenses?
SPITZER: Sure it is.
CHETRY: And do you know how much it will cost?
SPITZER: It's really two. The third is for the Canadian border contact, something we call an enhanced driver license pursuant to the Western Hemisphere travel initiative, a very separate issue that is a very important step forward for the economy in Buffalo and along the Canadian border.
Really two. One, if you want to satisfy Real ID, another if you don't.
It is easy. DMV would have an easy time implementing this. The cost would be no greater than the cost of implementing Real ID anyway. And so that is going to be a federally imposed obligation on us, despite what we choose to do.
CHETRY: One of your most vocal opponents has of course been right here in the walls of CNN, Lou Dobbs. He actually went as far last week as to call you an idiot before apologizing for saying that on the air.
Let's hear what he said last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: I really don't care anymore about what this governor, this arrogant abuser of his office -- and the just absolute disdain with which he holds both the truth and the citizens of the state of New York. This man is sitting here putting together a three-tier system in which he is going to give voter registration privileges to people he knows are illegal?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Do illegal immigrants get voter registration privileges?
SPITZER: Look, I'm not going to demean myself by getting into a back and forth with somebody who on TV spews venom, hate and fundamental misinformation. Of course not. He knows it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with voting. This is something seven other states do for security.
The director of Homeland Security has said we improve security by knowing who is there. As I said, it's beneath me, it's beneath my office, to, in any way, involve myself with Lou Dobbs. And I think his knowing spread of venom is beneath CNN as well.
CHETRY: Now, so just that we're clear, though, if you're undocumented you will not be able to vote even if you do get this ID?
SPITZER: Of course not. Voting is limited to citizenship. This is getting a driver's license so we know who is driving so that fewer accidents and more security.
Security is what we are about. Understand, we got into 9/11 because people wanted to ignore the problem. We're not ignoring the problem of the million people here in New York. We're confronting it.
Confronting it by saying they're here, let's know who they are, give them licenses, let us forge a system that permits us to improve security, which is precisely what the federal government has said we would do. Seven other states have done it.
The sort of racist venom that has underlined much of the criticism I think is shameful because what we are really talking about here is security and how we run our society.
CHETRY: Governor Spitzer, I'm glad you came on our show and had a chance to share your side. We appreciate it.
Thanks for being with us.
SPITZER: Thanks. Thank you very much.
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bravo to the gov
I love Elliot Spitzer
Sorry but Dobbs is right on this. If you don't believe we're giving illegals too much slack, visit any other country on the globe.
Finally! A Dem willing to take Dobbs and his racist minions on!
let there be video...
Awesome.
I just don't understand why more dems don't trash the wingnuts and their apologists on a daily basis. It makes all the difference in the world.
What?
Helloooo.... "REAL ID"? Has everyone here missed the point of what he's trying to do? Pushing forward the "REAL ID" plan in this country is about 8000gazillion times more scary than any pissing match he's having with Lou Dobbs!
Lou Dobbs is the only person making any sense on this issue. Plus, why's it racist to report that the bank of America is giving accounts to illegal aliens without any identification?
"bravo to the gov"? brilliant. Let's see...
1.He conjures up 9/11 for the Drivers Licenses issue (most if not all hijackers had drivers licenses).
2.He says them having licenses will mean less accidents. (I'm sorry...what?)
3.He keeps refering to the 7 other states that have approved this, but not the many others that are refusing to participate in the Real ID Act as a violation of our Personal Liberties (not just Lou Dobbs).
4.He acts as though it is all about security (when it will do nothing for security) but what it WILL do, is create MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of NEW INSURANCE CUSTOMERS FOR THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY IN NEW YORK. (you know, the industry that paid so much money to help him get elected?).
5.The "Progressives" are on board with the BUSHCO and AEI guys. Why do you think that is? Human rights? or a steady flow of CHEAP LABOR to drive down wages (look at the real money income numbers over the past 6 years) and drive up PROFIT MARGINS. Hmmmm? Think someone is being used?
Dobbs has marginalized himself into a one-trick pony. He kowtows to Tancredo, Hunter, and other pathetic GOPers who pout hatred for Hispanics, because they share his view about illegal emigrants.
Elliot Spirtzer go home. Let Lou Dobbs Speak the Truth.
willyloman @ 9:
I was just glad the way he refused to let CNN frame the debate. You make many good points, guess I am not informed about this issue. However, I do think the REAL ID program is a scary prospect.
Holy Shcneikes! Regardless of how much I'd agree with him otherwise, I wish more people would so frankly call out the pundit class like this.
SPITZER: This is a license. One would be what we would call a Real ID license… that would satisfy the federal Real ID statute.
This license will end up serving as your passport to Mexico and Canada. Allowing for "free unrestricted travel" across borders. For us; for Mexicans; for Candians. Welcome to the North American Union... and you guys are all for it?
The more Lou Dobbs talks the more I'm for full amnesty and for adding a star to the flag to make Mexico the 51st state.
Lou Dobbs is one the most biased idiots with a TV show. He bases his show around one issue and then censors his guests on it--not letting them talk about the real effect of undocumented workers on the economy and on our society. Randi Rhodes did a good job of explaining all the things that she was never allowed to say and why she no longer appears on the show.
Dobbs twists facts and outright lies. He gives hours to non-issues like those boarder guards who are in jail. Then he puts up online "poll issues" that are written in a way to get 98% of voters to agree with him, which he always gets (something I doubt O'Lielly could get from his audience). He puts up this facade that all Americans agree with him, but, of course, if these workers were sent back, our economy and way of life would be drastically effected for the worse. But, "oh they're sucking up free healthcare and schooling and other benefits." Go meet with the migrant workers, observe their way of life--really study what they add to our society vs. what they take from it and Dobbs ends up looking like a racist, xenophobic fool.
Whew, bank tellers are going to love this.
Are we talking about the same Lou Dobbs here? The guy does NOTHING but rip on Bush and neocons, yet some here think he's one of them?
The guy is against illegal immigration. The guy cares about accountability and the average working American. I don't hear righties talking like him.
Give me a break guys. I usually agree with the majority of you 9 times out of 10. This one is too much. I like Spitzer but he's wrong on this.
I'm not much a fan of either man. However any National ID like "Real ID" is another nail in the coffin for Democracy.
The people in this country who are already here... you know... I don't want to see someone loaded up in a bus and shipped out.
But this completely open boarder thing will kill our ecom=nomy (whats left of it).
Kucinich has a good plan:
1.Border protection
2.repeal NAFTA
3. Unilateral trade agreements with Mexico that forces these companies to pay real living wages in Mexico, rather than .38 cents per hour.
That will help their economy and ours. The only people it will hurt are the CEOs who are currently making an average of 500 times what their workers are making...
I think that is the best way to deal with a bad situation.
Is there such thing as illegal capital? US corporations transfer capital back and forth across the US and Mexico (thanks to NAFTA) like they do between Illinois and Indiana. If you aren't willing to stop the free flow of capital you shouldn't think of doing the same to labor. Economists as far back as Adam Smith have said how immoral and wrong it would be. If you're on the right it's obviously not economically efficient, find me a SINGLE economists who says it is. If you're on the left it gives immoral advantage to capital (corporations) over labor (workers). Letting capital go across borders freely and holding back the flow of labor makes no sense on any level, other than emotional. If you are in favor of "free trade" there should be no such thing as a legal or illegal immigrant any more than there is such a thing as illegal capital. What I find interesting is the conservatives who are most in favor of “free trade” are the most outspoken against immigration of all kinds. If any of you had any guts you'd challenge you representative about their support for NAFTA, but you won't. You'll just bitch as Mexicans try to find a better life.
When I watching the interview this morning, I kept thinking here it comes, just wait.....and BINGO!!!
He pulled the race card and screamed racist. I'm sorry, but when is it racist to NOT give illegal aliens a drivers license. Since when is being concerned about you nations sovereignty racist???
When are people going to stop cowering when they hear the word racist?
I completely agree with Willyloman.
willyloman @ 9:
What's wrong with more money going into the insurance system so that my rates don't go up? So you'd rather get hit by an uninsured driver who you can't collect on (since you admit that they drive anyway)? That doesn't make sense.
What do undocumented workers get from a license that you are so scared about? It must simply be the sense of legitimacy because, in all other respects, New Yorkers benefit from having drivers on the road who are insured and who actually passed a US drivers test.
I'm listening to Dobbs now. He just ripped the Bush administration on toy safety and he also is against the war.
He also has Jack Cafferty come on and do those great rants.
GLA says: "...if these workers were sent back, our economy and way of life would be drastically effected for the worse."
and this is really the problem.
People think that some corporation is operating at COST and if the wages for the employees go up to a LIVING WAGE or even minimum wage, then they will charge more and we will pay.
The fact is that the market will bare what the market will bare and the only thing to be affected if you pay someone a honest wage, is the profit margins of the corporations.
and besides, I would rather pay a few more dollars for a product, than think it is being made in a sweat shop. Just look at what the GAP did this week.
Human @ 19:
Have to have One Nation State. None of this individualized drivers licenses and license plate stuff.
(My inner Cynic)
GLA says : "What’s wrong with more money going into the insurance system so that my rates don’t go up?"
Once again GLA is ONLY concerned about his pocketbook.
When we illegally invaded Iraq, they said "cheap gas"... where are the profits going?
You think insurance companies are going to pass on the savings.... or Pocket the Profit?
Trolls out in force, I see.
Lou Dobbs LIED AND PANDERED about "leprosy" and never apologized or corrected his knowing lies.
Gee, I wonder why that is.
Meanwhile, NOT ONE of the heroes trolling this thread have mentioned that Bushco is CURRENTLY allowing every Mexican semitrucker the free rein of the US.
They never seem to mention that. Because it's only fun to attack the poor -- actually attacking REPUBLICANS LIKE DOBBS for their inability to bite the hand that feeds them, that's off the table.
C'mon, Dobbs is a HE-RO. He attacks the poor with lies, calls them lepers, and ignores the semitruck (full of who knows what) which comes to his front door, having not been inspected by anyone. Our saviour!
The Populist @ 18:
He rips on both parties. If you really pay attention to his issues, he's more about getting loyal viewers and pretending to be a real populist, but he never supports politicians who are real populists. Because of his single focus on undocumented workers, many of the politicians that he is chummy with with are actually incumbent republicans (who, on labor issues and foreign policy, you'd think he be against if you took Dobbs at his word). Yah, Dobbs is really progressive.
The Populist @ 25:
Wow, if he wasn't a BIGOT, he'd be a great guy, eh?
willyloman @ 28:
Sure they pocket money. However, if you look at cities that have the highest insurance rates (like Detroit), you'll find that they have the highest number of uninsured drivers. It's an obvious correlation.
What many people fail to realize is that giving DLs to illegal immigrants will help the economy as it will reduce accidents by allowing them to be properly trained, more will take drivers ed. and road tests to get their license instead of driving without a license (assuming they've never had one at all, outside the US or inside). But, above all, this move will save the average New York tax payer hundreds of dollars as the insurance premiums drop. Remember, when an unlicensed, uninsured driver gets into an accident the insurance companies have very little recourse and they end up footing the bill. With illegal immigrants having DLs, the insurance companies have more information about the drivers involved, their bank accounts, where they live, how much property they own, etc. The only losers in this case are the racists and the xenophobes.
PS: If the 9/11 hijackers couldn't get DLs they would have traveled by train, bus or acquired fake licenses.
willyloman @ 20:
How?
justabill @ 15:
Right on! This xenophobic crap is out of control.
Spitzer does not have the guts to debate Dobbs.
Why?
Look at the polls, New Yorkers are on Dobbs side.
Jerry @ 22 "Since when is being concerned about you nations sovereignty racist???"
Since when did DLs have anything to do with sovereignty?
"When are people going to stop cowering when they hear the word racist?"
When Republicans come back to power in 2040.
Joe for Unity08 @ 3:
Ummm, touch of irony there "Joe for Unity"...
besides which, if every other country was fascist, does that we should be too?
It's funny how the immigration issue brings out the bigots who frequent C&L, but are against the war and against the fascism this country has adopted as of late. But, bring up immigrants, and the bigots come out of the woodwork.
The truth is that lou dobbs is the real coward and he knows it
Paul, do you object to the rights corporations now have thanks to NAFTA? I'm not saying you don't, but when I hear people on the right (not saying you are or aren't) complain about Mexican truckers and say nothing about US corporations and their connections to NAFTA I get angry. Americans have no real morals. They could care less about exploiting countries like Mexico, they simply want to rig it so they get a share of the exploitation and get mad when their politicians don't come through. Allow corporations to ship capital across borders? Sure, as long as we get a piece of that capital concentration and as long as only the "legals" are let through, who we say is ok. What a racket.
Look, Dobbs can talk all he wants about open borders. The fact is, he doesn't have a solution.
Spitzer is entirely right when he says Dobbs is "spewing venom." Illegal bashing gets ratings.
The fact is, Bush's government does nothing to attack the root of the so-called problem: the companies and individuals who hire illegals.
Economics 101 would tell you, where there's a demand, the supply will follow. If you create the demand for illegal labor, no amount of border security will stop the supply from flowing across the border.
Why don't they go after the companies that hire illegals? The farms that hire migrants? Because they are our bread and butter.
So all border security does is makes it extremely dangerous for our workforce to get to work. No skin off the corporations' noses.
I'llbeFrank @ 33:
What you might not realize is that NY gave out DLs without regard to citizenship for DECADES until the previous NY admin, which played the race card and the Nine-eleven card like they were nipple rings.
CA has also given out CDLs for a long, long time, without any downside other than the thought that maybe having to pass a driving test is a good idea. Only the unelected Austrian Goon was able to finger his nipple rings and, yah, try to turn the state into a stadt.
getalife @ 36:
Do you have a link to those "polls"?
Spitzer's already explained his stance regarding Dobbs and I admire him for standing up to Dobbs and his hatred and bigotry. Dobbs is a vile person errrr .....phlegm. No offense to phlegm.
Dang! Spitzer is good. I like the idea, and it makes sense. But the rightwingers are obviously going nuts over this because it's a policy that puts no brown people in jail, so it must be bad!
I'm a New Yorker - and I'm with Fitz on this.
@ 34 I'llbefrank says : "How?"
The truck drivers the guy above mentions is a good example. He is right. The North American Corridor is all about shipping and tarifis. Getting products moved around cheaper, for large corporations....
but ALSO to bring the products in from China or where ever, to the NON UNION ports and docks in Mexico, then put them on NON TEAMSTER trucks to ship them all oer the country.
Now, do you know any truck drivers or dock workers? Their jobs are going to either be lost, or they will be forced to work for much less in order to keep the shipments coming in.
Are they Super Rich? No, they are just MIDDLE CLASS people working everyday to provide for their families. Soon to be replaced or forced to live on much less.
Resturant industry wages down... Construction industry wages down... manufacturing... farming.... ect.
You think it will stop there? of course not. Been done in Chile... European Union... all kinds of places.
yo @ 41:
I oppose NAFTA and CAFTA. But my beef in this regard is the monitoring program -- which asserts that it inspects LESS THAN FIVE PERCENT of those trucks.
• IF we have to allow the trucks in, INSPECT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, and add that price to the goods.
People actually watch Lou Dobbs? Even if you actually agree with him on immigration how can you stand watching this poster child for monomania rant on and on about the same damn thing every day ad infinitem ad nauseum? It's amazing how many downright peculiar people have become "experts" and "authorities" simply because some apparently equally weird programming boss decided to put them on TV regularly.
goal @ 40:
Attacking the poor is one of the most cowardly acts there is.
Demonizing immigrants with false disease scaremongering is so despicable that Lou should be tarred and feathered and ridden around town on a rail.
You notice how alot of people will immediately throw out the "bigot" charge and the racist label, without really discussing the root of the problem.
Being concerned about national security does not make someone a "racist".
and maybe you should look into Dobb's home life before leveling that cliche charge.
getalife @ 36:
Huh. And why do you think that is?
Could it be because Dobbs has a soapbox every night for an hour shouting "illegals are ruining our country!"?
Why wouldn't it be popular, in a time of economic instability, to blame immigrants?
You don't think this continual drum beat affects polls?
Meanwhile, Spitzer gets the typical U.S. newsbite to explain why it makes sense.
willyloman @ 14:
Thanks for not sleeping.
willyloman @ 50 "Being concerned about national security does not make someone a "racist"."
Yes it does, and you are one too.
You can't talk about the semitrucks -- just not your issue. You're all about trolling hatred for immigrants.
Dobbs married a Latina. So it appears that if you will have sex with him, he'll look the other way about the LEPROSY.
Willy, do you care about workers in general or just US workers? How many workers have been screwed in Mexico by NAFTA as well? Did you morally object to their treatment? If not, a tear won't be shed in Mexico for US workers. If there's no solidarity across borders it's everyone for themself. The AFL CIO can be blamed for this as much as anyone. In the US they've fought for some good things. In other countries they work, many times with the NED and USAID, with the most reactionary, right wing elements to make sure workers in other countries are denied the same rights the AFL CIO are fighting for in this country. This is what "free trade" is. If you don't like it join the fight against it, don't just selectively pick and chose what parts you don't like based only on how it effects you.
getalife @ 36:
Live in New York before you say that... I doubt highly Lou Dobbs has a lot of fans in upstate even, let alone the city. The country just loves Rudy, until you ask an actual person who lives there.
CNN invited him on, not the other way around. Where the hell is Dobbs anyway if he's so big and bad?
willyloman @ 14 "This license will end up serving as your passport to Mexico and Canada."
Heh, that's funny, my CDL was ALWAYS a sufficient 'passport' for going to Mexico, until Bush seized power.
Now I have to use a passport, with a biometric strip.
Your claim about a one-nation state is HILARIOUS.
Paul says "You can’t talk about the semitrucks — just not your issue"
Please see comment 46 where I talk at length about the trucking industry and how this is affecting it.
"Yes it does, and you are one too."
and... of course... now I am a racist because.... what? Just because?
Vaden @ 39:
It's funny how you think anyone who demonizes fraudalent documents and people who use the system is a bigot.
OK--this is an opportunity for me to ask a question I have been wondering about for a long time. Just what is it about illegal aliens that progressives cannot resist supporting? Serious question. As far as I have been able to figure out, it might be:
1--If they do get the right to vote, they are unlikely to be Republicans, or
2--There is a misguided humanitarianism at work here, unaware of the fact that most of these people are here to be exploited as non-union low wage workers.
Please somebody, help me out on this. BTW, I am not a right wing troll. I consider myself to be a Scandinavian-style social democrat, but this one has me stumped.
Paul in LA @ 29:
Actually as a truck driver I have watched Dobbs talk about this quite often, as well as the selling of our highways to overseas companies. Dobbs isn't always right on everything he talks about (no one ever is) but at least he does talk about topics that actually hurt the middle class in this country. The dems need to quit sucking up to the mexicans just for votes about immigration. It's amazing how far some people drag the word racism to blanket every argument. Illegal immigration is killing a majority of middle class jobs in this country and all you "lefties" care about is not offending anyone. Wake up and see what's going on around you.
Vaden @ 44:
http://www.wnbc.com/news/14341745/detail.html?subid=10101421
72 % of New Yorkers oppose this stupid idea.
You can blame Dobbs all you want but he is for the people and bashes this administration everyday. Immigration is just one issue he attacks. China, free tade, Iraq, Iran, etc...
The bottom line is this is Congress's problem they will not solve.
yo says "Willy, do you care about workers in general or just US workers? How many workers have been screwed in Mexico by NAFTA as well? "
Please see comment # 20
where I stated Kucinich's Plan is a damn good one: unilateral trade to force companies to pay a good wage in Mexico and carefully monitor working conditions.here it is again...
1.Border protection
2.repeal NAFTA
3. Unilateral trade agreements with Mexico that forces these companies to pay real living wages in Mexico, rather than .38 cents per hour.
willyloman @ 57 "now I am a racist because.... what? Just because?"
Sorry, I confused you with Unity08 and the other trolls here.
"The people in this country who are already here… you know… I don’t want to see someone loaded up in a bus and shipped out."
Bravo for that.
OMFG! Someone who counts finally shoved that racist drivel up Dobb's ass! Money to him!
getalife @ 61 "72 % of New Yorkers oppose this stupid idea."
A supposedly stupid idea that was law in New York for decades before Pataki made it unallowed.
So you're suggesting that until Pataki NYers were stupid?
72% might agree NYers are stupid, but that doesn't make Pataki's idiotic hatemongering policy correct.
Paul in LA @ 65:
Huh, this is a new proposal.
getalife @ 61:
Worry about your own state and your own governors!
Deport Lou!
Whitey @ 60 "The dems need to quit sucking up to the mexicans just for votes about immigration. It's amazing how far some people drag the word racism to blanket every argument."
Most of you cats ARE racists.
There are two kinds of racists: those who are out, and those who hide in the closet (or in their cab), and only let the hatred slip out in various phrases.
You watch Lou Dobbs? Then WHEN DID HE REPUDIATE THE LEPROSY BULLSHIT? Ever?
He's a racist, regardless of his populism. Btw, "populism" has TRADITIONALLY involved virulent racism and hatemongering.
Why bother being a Republican if you don't want to be a racist?
Gary, this one "has you stumped" because the Democrats have decided to garner the voting block by embracing this issue as one of Humanitarian Concerns...
when the reality is exactly what you said... people are forced by sub-human wages in Mexico (created by NAFTA and US companies moving down there to pay nothing in wages) to walk up here for starvation wages!
This brings the standard of living down for everyone... Except Walmart and the CEO Class.
Well, guess what? Bill C signed NAFTA and Hillary was on Walmart's Board of Directors.
It ain't just the Republicans cashing the big checks.
This proposal is voter fraud and will take professional driving jobs away from New Yorkers and give these jobs to illlegal immigrants.
Geez.
L.A. Confidential @ 27:
"Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
'course this like other parts of the Constitution are violated by Congress and the Executive are violated on a daily basis.
Peace
Gary @ 8:
And my daughter tried to open an account when she was in High school and 18 years old. Because she lived with me and the utilities were in my name and all she had was a high school ID with her picture on it, even with a birth certificate she was denied and My father was born here, I was born here and of course so was my daughter. Looks like the only ones who will have a difficult time opening any accounts is the US Citizen!
AND, Dobbs is fairly BUG-EYED over the whole episode...because he is "alien obsessed" and trying to make his own name over this issue...believe me if he would rationally pursue his legitimate positions and have actual CONVERSATIONS with people perhaps he could do some good...now calling Spitzer "PRINCE ELLIOT"...so mature...
I have to agree with Lou on this one. Take a fraction of the budget spent on
the Iraq war, and build a manned wall using the Army as the armed guards. Dig a moat and stock it with alligators, for God's sake! If the Chinese could build their wall and Hadrian could build his, (by hand, I might add) surely we can secure our borders. Then, we make anchor-babies illegal back to 1989, and start the roundup.
While doing that, we fine and jail employers using illegal underpaid labor to pay for the processing and deportation of the millions.
In all seriousness, folks, I legally immigrated to Canada years ago, paid my dues, jumped through the hoops, and did it right. My girlfriend immigrated to the U.S. from Ireland a couple years ago, legally, paying her dues and jumping through the hoops. Do you people with the bleeding hearts for the "poor illegals" understand how the rest of us who followed the rules feel when you want to just ignore the laws and regulations we all so slavishly followed to proudly become citizens of our adopted countries??? Please, i am as liberal as they come on most issues, but this is insane.
Why can't the Immigration and Naturalization Agency just round up every last illegal alien protesting at their marches and take them all to the airports and ship them HOME!?! Congress and Bush are tripping over their dicks trying to make these people legal to try and be the first ones to get their votes, and THAT is why the will of the people will NEVER be heard on this issue. If you don't believe that, take a look at the gyrations politicians go through to court a few hundred thousand Cuban immigrant votes in South Florida. That is the exact reason we don't have normal relations with Cuba to this day. It has nothing to do with all the foo-fah about communism or human rights violations. It is about carrying South Florida in elections. Wow. What a bunch of loosely connected rants. Oh, well, TTFN.
Boy this head cold got me writing in circles. I meant to write violated once. 'Course maybe it's because I feel so uhm....
This is a hard issue, because at it's heart are people just trying to make a living.
I will repeat what I said earlier... we need to repeal NAFTA and have a unilateral trade agreement with Mexico to provide fair wages in Mexico and decent working conditions.
We need to stand by our Teamsters and say no to allowing Mexican Over the Road drivers to run their trucks on our soil.
And we need to find some way to allow people who are already here to come out of the shaddows and become legal, in time, so that they can earn what should be a fair wage in the States for their work.
And we need to limit the corporate greed in this country. Is that all? simple, right?
The hell with Dobbs and his lapel flag. I'm so sick of the jingoism and nationalism that have infected this country since 9/11 ...
Will I ever get to hear "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" at a World Series game again? Or will it always and forever be the mawkish, treacly (and offensive to nonbelievers) "God Bless America"? Complete with war toys and huge flags and all sorts of religious/military pageantry?
It's amazing just how much we've lost.
Lou Dobbs has it right.
Eddybaby @ 75:
Michelle Malkin is that you?
Gary @ 59 "Just what is it about illegal aliens that progressives cannot resist supporting?"
That's fairly easy. Choose from this list:
• Undocumented aliens are generally NOT a major crime problem.
• Many undocumented aliens from the southern border do NOT want to live in the United States. Closing the borders has simply made the problem worse.
• Most undocumented aliens are TRYING to get leg