Saudi Arabia's atrocity
By John Amato Tuesday Nov 20, 2007 11:01am
This broke a few days ago, but I wanted to post it. With most of the 9/11 hijackers coming from Saudi Arabia and their treatment of women in general---you would think compassionate conservatives like Bush & Cheney would have attacked them instead of Iraq. (They love war) Oh, wait---the Neocon branch of our government doesn't give a shit about that.
A Saudi Arabian human rights attorney is asking the government to allow him to represent a woman who was gang-raped -- and then sentenced to prison for speaking out about the case.
The attorney, Abdulrahman al-Lahim, had his license revoked last week by a judge for speaking to the Saudi-controlled media about the case, al-Lahim told CNN.
The judge more than doubled the sentence against al-Lahim's 19-year-old client because she spoke to the media about the case, a court source told Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper.
The woman -- who was initially sentenced in October 2006 to 90 lashes -- had her sentenced increased to 200 lashes and was ordered to serve six months in prison under Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic law.
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Yes and the UK recently rolled out the red carpet for the king of saudi arabia, and had prince charles meet him off the plane, makes me feel sick.
where is the condemnations ? we know that if this happened in Iran it would be all over fox news etc.
You'll never hear the neocons talk about things like this. It's one of their dirty little secrets. It's one of the future policy changes they've promised to the xian death cultists in payment for their support.
90200 lashes?i'd be lookin for a way to off myself ASAP.
You see, "compassionate conservatism" only applies to rich, whites and the few brown people who have oil reserves.
Apparently, we can't criticize a country when we suckle hungerily at their enormous oil teet.
That's just par for the course for the Saudis. Consider this excerpt from a report by the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom:
"In one case, the Commission was told of a foreign domestic worker who had become pregnant after being raped by her employer. She was subsequently imprisoned because it is illegal for female foreign workers to become pregnant in Saudi Arabia if they are not married."
http://www.uscirf.gov/countries/region/middleast/saudi/saudiReport.pdf
And if the ruling of that judge amazes you, guess who he looks to for controlling legal precedent:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7645118/
Saudi society is saturated with this crap. It's truly endemic:
http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
According to Michael Moore, Saudi's have $860 billion invested in this country. This government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation isn't about to speak against its owners.
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giantpeach @ 4:
According to what I read in the Chicago Tribune, the 200 lashes will be meted out over a period of several days because "no one could survive 200 lashes at one time".
See. They are compassionate after all.
Stories like this pretty well debunk the myth that we are invading countries to bring democracy, how can that be true when we prop up such tyrannical regimes as the saudis.
Another thing about the saudis, the 9/11 families one tried to sue saudi arabia for links to 9/11, guess who defended the saudis ? James Bakers lawyers, they even got there own office in the white house to fight the 9/11 familes case against the saudis.
With respect to you. Find a psychiatrist ASAP, and keep your two-fer BS away from grown up talk.
This story just breaks my heart. A woman was gang-raped and then blamed for seeking justice. Her lawyer has been penalized too.
This transcends partisan lines. If this is Islamic law in action and we, as a country silently condone it, what does that say about our commitment to our own Constitution?
hug the moon @ 9:
Take off the foil hat.
Saudi Arabia is run by a bunch of lunatics. Jesus, I suppose the woman would have been sentenced to death by stoning had one of her attackers died of a heart attack while raping her.
Apparently, the Saudis are waaaaaaaaaaaaay conservative.
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Religious fundamentalism by any other name...
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Why do we continue to be dependent on oil from these jerks? Wouldn't the $2 Trillion for the Iraq war have been better spent on energy independence?
The problem is one of diplomacy, the United States is in bed with Saudi Arabia in more ways than one. Outright condemnation might risk that delicate relationship. We need the oil they produce; they need the cash and, yes, weapons the U.S. sells them.
Don't you feel better knowing this?
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I despise Sharia. But as usual the neocons anger selectively overlooks their buddies Saudi Arabia who are one of the worst practitioners of Sharia. Where are the cries of Islamo-fascism against Saudi Arabia?
So what are we going to do about this? I see we're all appalled that the media isn't covering this. But what can we DO? I pay my Amnesty dues, sure. But I want to smite these bastards and free their women. Tell me how to actually effect a change in a f'ed up land thousands of miles away.
PS hug-the-moon, you can hug my nuts.
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=10670
Yes and where do we have the moral authority to tell them this is cruel and inhuman?
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hug the moon @ 19:
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That's but one of a hundred stories, supported in their massive article via evidence, that I thought I'd share with you. I won't get into the others, because after seeing the obnoxious assholes at Maher's show, I'm simply not interested. It's off-topic, but you're a loudmouth so that doesn't bother you, now does it?
Now, go and educate yourself before coming back. Though I'd prefer if you didn't.
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The Saudis are pigs. We are dealing with people with a Medieval mindset and we look the other way because they sell us their oil. We should knock these kings and playboy princes off their thrones and replace them with good ol' American stooges.
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hug the moon @ 24:
I take back my snark, then, too. But this isn't the place for your particular brand of theorizing, and as a consequence you look like a crazy person yelling on the street about the Second Coming to anyone who will listen.
Even the stuff mentioned above about jet fuel and steel is based on black-and-white assumptions that thousands of engineers can easily debunk. Again, I encourage any of you buys into the hype put forth by these desperate-to-be-relevant, smug assholes spends a few hours going through the mountains of evidence presented at Popular Mechanics.
Oh, yes. Our friends and allies in the war on terrorism. The Saudis.
First, they bullshit us into a war in Kuwait, and now Iraq. And they are the prime source for personnel for fundamentalist terror groups. Quoting Brant Parker and Johnny Hart, "The King Is A Fink". For the medieval mysoginist nature of his regime, he is also a PIG. Fuck him and the oilmen in the White House that allow this to go on.
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want to know what is even more crazy about this story?:
- Where does the taliban come from? Saudi Arabia
- Where do 80-90% of foreign fighters in Iraq come from? Saudi Arabia
- In what muslim country do women have more rights than Saudi Arabia? IRAN
Go figure. Neoconservatives make make no sense at all.
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Clytemnestra @ 27:
Yes and where do we have the moral authority to tell them this is cruel and inhuman?
Are you for real? Even THEY know it's cruel and inhuman. They do it anyway because the woman and her lawyer are of the minority faction in Saudi Arabia. There are different kinds of Islam and they are part of the minority.
I would hope that everyone with any common sense knows that beating someone who was raped is cruel and inhuman. That doesn't stop people from doing it!
Saudi Arabia is a prominent international adjunct of the Bush Crime Family.
Commander Bunnypants has blood and oil on his hands. He should be tried for war crimes.
That first sentence was meant to be a quote, of course.
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CNN actually covered this quite a bit yesterday (credit where credit is due though I'm loathe to give it) on The Situation Room. (Grain of) salt of the earth Cafferty even had a nice little rant about it in the "roundtable".
equilibrio @ 38:
Say what you will, the Masonic IHOP serves up a mean Belgian Waffle. But you have to know the special handshake to order it.
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Iran is an absolute feminist paradise compared to Saudi Arabia. I get really upset when people dump on Iran for their treatment of women -- they have women in Parliment, as engineers, they can drive, etc. They have conservative idiots who blow a gasket when they see women dressed "immodestly" but they are nowhere near the same level as the Saudis.
There is either a huge irony here or something deeper. Our activities in the region have steadily worsened women's rights. The one good thing about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is that they really believed in gender equality -- so we help the mysogneists overthrow them. Perhaps the only good thing about Saddam is that he, too, believed in gender equality and had women in high places. Now we are going after Iran whilst turning a blind eye to the Saudis.
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Saudi Arabic is just a back-asswards country.
This is what the nightmare of theocracy looks like. Do you really think we'd be any less screwed up if we were run by our own state religion?
Nobody ever talks about why the Al Saud family has encouraged the Wahabist(sp?) whack-jobs. The royal family is so corrupt they had to placate the religious fanatics somehow. If they ever focus their attention inwards they'll find as much within their own country to be pissed about as they do in the rest of the world.
equilibrio @ 38:
The confusion lies in confusing irony for confusion.
Jon Stewart: "Saudi Arabia.. a whole 10% of the 9/11 Hijackers were not from there"
Wow. [Deleted-Sitemonitor] Just wow. [ :roll: -Sitemonitor]
Has Hug the Moon mooned himself?
Quick! Bomb Iran!
That makes me want to vomit...
First a poor girl is raped... then SHE'S the criminal? WTF?
If 200 lashes to this young woman is the price I have to pay to continue to fill up my Escalade what's the big deal?
Evinfuilt @ 12:
You don't believe that 19 hijackers conspired to fly airplanes into buildings?
Of the 19 suicide hijackers, 16 were Saudi. The money for the attack came from Saudi businessmen. The ideology behind the attack is promulgated in Wahabbi religious schools supported by the Saudi government.
Saudi Arabia attacked the United States through a terrorist organization. Since Reagan bombed Libya, for blowing an airplane out of the sky, shouldn't we have laid the wood on the Saudis. (It would have been so sweet if, once we had the forces arrayed on the border of Iraq, we had instead turned and invaded Arabia.)
They have $860 billion invested in the States? Since they are a state sponsor of terrorism, I think we are justified in nationalizing all those investments. That would almost pay for the costs of 9/11 and the Mess-o-Potamia.
Have you been watching the PBS piece on democracy in ancient Athens? They define the early nature of democracy - slavery etc - and they define the phrase 'exporting democracy' - which they define to mean the expropriation of property to the citizens of Athens from conquered lands. This is what Bush is doing - he is in the classic Athenian sense exporting democracy. You understand that in this interpretation we are the slaves and the 'Bush' class are the citizens - which would include haliburton, blackwater, cheney etc.
My point is, we are not likely able to save ourselves even without involvements in circumstances beyond our shores. The treatment of women in Saudi Arabia is terrible. But, absent the veil, how do you feel about your wife or daughter being class chattle here in the US? How do you feel about 50 million people without healthcare? How do you feel about a society that doesnt protect its children or aged? This is a long list - which I will avoid enumerating.
Did you know that in the 19th century there were 100 arable acres of land per capita in the US and that by the mid 21st century (population ~ 500 million) there will be ~0.6 acres of arable land per capita in the US? Experts conclude the US wont be able to feed itself. Did you know that the American way of life is destroying the ecosphere? There is a region in the center of the pacific twice the size of Texas and growing of non-degradable plastic. Did you know that 90% of large body fish are gone from the oceans?
I doubt you read this ... but ...
Priorities John ...
As long as western leadership cartels are oil invested, and blocking invention of alternative energies, Muslims will be entertained, and their social customs will be tolerated and overlooked.
Halliburton/Cheney Territory -> UAE, the folks who were going to purchase our port security a couple years ago:
Dubai Ruler Sued in U.S. over Enslaving Small Boys
September 14, 2006 3:36 PM
Vic Walter Reports:
The ruler of Dubai came to Kentucky to buy race horses but ended up being served with a lawsuit alleging he enslaved thousands of small boys as camel jockeys.
Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum was served Monday with the court papers while attending a horse show in Lexington, Ky., where he spent an estimated $30 million on thoroughbred yearlings.
The lawsuit, brought as a class action, alleged Sheikh Mohammed and his brother were part of a conspiracy "to buy boys in the slave trade, hold them in bondage in brutal camps in the desert" as part of a flourishing camel racing sport among Arab sheikhs.
THE BLOTTER RECOMMENDS
World Cup Sex Rate Card
Human Trafficking: From Dubai to Brazil to Germany
Click Here for More of the Brian Ross Page
The lawsuit calls it "one of the greatest humanitarian crimes of the last 50 years," involving thousands of boys as young as four who were prized because they weighed less than 44 pounds.
The Sheikh's personal 747 aircraft was seen parked this morning at the Bluegrass Airport in Lexington, Ky. There was no immediate comment from the Sheikh or from a spokesman at the United Arab Emirates embassy in Washington, D.C.
giantpeach @ 4:
I imagine this is part of their plan.
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Weaseldog @ 57:
hug the moon does not believe that.
And it needs to take off the shiny beanie step away from the foil roll for a while.
This young lady had already been sentenced for being in the company of an unrelated male. Her sentenced was doubled for speaking out about it. So women aren't allowed to be in the same room, unattended, with a man to whom they are not related. Being caught doing so is worthy of a beating and 6 months in jail.
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The less you separate church and state, the more you separate rich and poor.
Funny how that works.
"Compassionate" conservatives will simply point out that the young woman flaunted the law of the land. Conservatives, of all people, understand that the law of the land must be obeyed. Right? Look at the bush administration. Now, there's a bunch of law-abiders if ever I saw one. Every day, they make me proud to be an American.
/snark off
How nice to be born a fucking MAN in Saudi Arabia.
You can victimize women to any degree and there are no consequences. By golly - the courts will actually make the woman pay for telling about it - then in addition - on top of the shame of the rape that they count on to drive her to suicide - they'll impose physical punishment so incredibly severe that any living person would have trouble surviving it.
When can we start gelding these fuckers at birth?
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Why so many post deletions?
I think the best thing for the middle east is if it was burnt off the face of the Earth.
Here's the REAL shocker that the media completely covered up: it was Dick Cheney holding the whip! His reward for being such a good toady for the sheiks, helping keep the U.S. totally under their control.
Wow, someone missed a troofer post.
Um, yeah.
Hey, dumbass, ever work with steel? You don't need to melt it to bend it. Ever seen someone work in steel? They're not running 3000 degree heat just to make their bends in the steel.
So, who do I believe? A dumbass with no knowledge of how to work with steel? Don't think so.
I wasn't aware that 9/11 had anything to do with Saudi's non existent human rights.
Perhaps that should wait for another 9/11 thread to beat it to death against.
Again.
In relation to the actual topic, Sharia law sucks.
Just an on going example of what religious extremists of ANY religion will do if allowed to run things their way.
I'm sure Dobson's only problem with this sentence is that it's Muslims doing it.
Same goes for the rest of those fundie freaks.
This is an extreme case, but this is how things are done in that part of the world. It's unfortunate, but it shouldn't drive foreign policy. And frankly I wish there were more times the Bush administration would do nothing.
The WH position will have to come from prince bandhar boosh!
NobodySpecial @ 70:
Not everyone knows that steel gains the consistency of taffy, long before it gets hot enough to melt.
um, i dont think this is islamic law. islam and the qu'ran say nothing about punishment for the victim of rape, or at least not to my knowledge. http://www.submission.org/women/rape.html
also, the punishment increased because saudi law offers appeals but a greater penalty if you are found guilty again.
D. Tree @ 38:
Nor does punishing a woman because some man can't keep his penis in his pants. Women of the world unite! And men who believe women should have say over their personal bodies and choices... Perhaps this can be stopped through some international movement that speaks their mind to those in power in Saudi Arabia. It's always escaped me, whatever logic if any is applied, how a woman can be charged with her own rape.
68. how humanitarian...
Trittydi @ 67:
I agree wholeheartedly with you... gelding sounds like the correct solution here.
Richard Peterson @ 58:
Actually, it was 15 that were Saudis. But more to the point, 9/11 itself is just the tip of the iceberg:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
Yes, we should have invaded the Kingdom, and seized all those assets as reparations (and still should).
Bush wants to bitch about how there is nothing to back up Social Security but a bunch of paper IOU's - well, there you go.
Trittydi @ 67:
Right after we geld you.
It is illegal for a woman to meet with an unrelated male under Saudi's Islamic law.
How are they ever supposed to get married and have babies then?
A friend of mine, a nurse, worked in Saudi Arabia 12 years ago. Very weird place.
The streets are patrolled by a religious police force called the Mutawa. They carry long sticks and will arrest or beat anyone who violates dress codes (for women, head-to-toe abayas), socializes with non-family members of the opposite sex, etc.
Westerners who get caught with alcohol are generally thrown out of the country. Usually this means you get put on the first available flight, no matter where it's going. Cairo, New Delhi, they don't care. And if you're a woman, they stamp "Whore" in your passport.
My friend had light hair and blue eyes, and hated wearing her black head covering in 100+ degree weather. Trouble was, unless she kept her hair completely covered, she would be constantly harrassed by Saudi men whenever she left the hospital compound where she worked. Saudis regularly exposed themselves to her and her colleagues at the hospital bus stop and in the markets. The religious obligation to respect and protect women translates in real life into the crudest behavior. Any woman who isn't your wife, sister or mother basically a whore, especially if she's not muslim.
The one place where my friend could relax was the beach compound at her residence. This was a walled area on the shore of the Red Sea, restricted to foreign workers only, where expats were allowed to wear swimsuits. One day, some idiot fisherman complained about the evil people in bathing suits, which caused the Mutawa to show up. They broke into the compound, where they were supposedly not allowed, and started beating the western nurses and doctors with their sticks. My friend had her CD player thrown in the ocean by some screaming fanatic. She thought she was going to be arrested and stuck on the next flight to Damascus in her bathing suit. Instead, the expat beach was closed and the evil infidels were confined to the residence. So to amuse themselves and stay sane, the nurses brewed up some Jeddah Juice - bathtub hooch made out of fruit juice and yeast.
Saudi Arabia is basically the 12th century with crude oil.
I think the punishment is commensurate with the crime.
The judges are justified in protecting the public at large more than the victim in this case. If this were to happen in the US, I would hope that the current administration and the justice dept would do the very same thing, and view the safety of the public at large more than individual right's for personal vendetta. And I am glad that we are moving in this direction. PUBLIC SAFETY should be first and foremost.
The judges, our justice, and the police have taken an oath to protect the public first and foremost. Individual's liberty to create havoc and raise a ruckus, as done by the victim in this case, must be limited and curtailed with force if necessary.
DJ, Arlington Group
Does anyone else find it interesting that the US demonizes the most socially moderate Islamic countries like Iraq, Iran and Syria and yet the harshest islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan are our "friends"
When are you people going to stop undermining our efforts in the ME? You should be supporting the President and our troops.
(I know this is a non-sequitur, but I've been programmed to say it at every opportunity)
Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man...
Hunh? A private matter that was not observed by a man? Such as what? Going pottie? What does this mean?
NobodySpecial @ 70:
Dude, the towers did not melt or bend...they collapsed into total pulverised rubble. lolololo
Sexually abuse women (or young boys in some cases) then employ the draconian powers of the state to silence the victim, inflict additional punishment on the victim for speaking out and quash the ability of the victim's legal counsel to fairly represent them.
Isn't this every neo-con, fundamentalist, conservative Republican nutjob's gooey wet dream?
The two countries that should be invaded in a war on terror is, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan.
Iraq, Iran, Syria are all just distractions on the overall plan. Maybe eventually once the US has control over much of the oil in the Middle East, it can cut ties with the Saudis. Since the US is ADDICTED to oil, and Bush wants to reduce the need for foreign oil, holding the oil in the Middle East through US Military control, then it will be termes an 'interest' or 'asset' to give the guise that it is a US owned/local establishment. Being under US control may give them the oppourtunity to remove the term 'foreign' from this oil, resulting in no longer depending on 'foreign oil'.
So, maybe we should have pateince like GWB says?? HA Maybe their real goal is regime change in Saudi Arabia?
Not to mention that oil has hit $99/barrel now. I'd like to invest in oil, but my concience won't allow it.
Big John @ 87:
Right, nothing got bent in the collapse.
DJ @ 83:
Wow. Dude, you need some serious help.
michelle l @ 60:
Yep, but no one beats the Saudis in the race to the bottom. Here's what the author of their official grade school textbooks had to say about slavery:
http://www.arabiaradio.org/english/article.cfm?qid=132&sid=2
And the State Department has designated them a "Tier 3" offender when it comes to human trafficking:
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/
That would be the worst possible category.
Ghost Hacked @ 89:
We might see $200/barrel by this time next year.
And now, of course, Hillary is trying to capitalize on it.
Remember, according to the admistration the Saudis are "Our eternal friends."
9/11/2001, 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi Nationals. No Iraqi Nationals.
Let's invade Iraq!!!!
Trittydi @ 67:
Did you read the entire article? The attacker's sentences range from two to nine years in prison and 80 to 1,000 lashes each. You can debate that the punishment isn't severe enough. Hell, I would agree with you if you did but to say that they got away with "no consequences" is a tad inaccurate.
Oh, and gelding men at birth would only be a temporary solution. I'd say about a generation or so.
Ghost Hacked @ 89:
If you trade oil on the commodities/futures market (where that $99/barrel figure comes from), there's no problem, as the whole futures market is nothing but a global casino.
TBC, the woman in question was sentenced to 90 lashes for "being in the car of a strange man."
Although the British establishment might have fawned over our Saud