Never thought I’d say this, but the ’50s and ’60s were the height of the America experiment - and the beginning of the end..

Moderately intelligent people have known for years that UNREGULATED CORPORATE CAPATLISM MUST INEVITABLY LEAD TO THE IMPOSITION OF A FASCIST DICTATORSHIP IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN THE EXTANT RULING ELITE IN ITS DEATH GRIP ON POWER….
What is the surprise here?

So long as the ‘free-market fanatics’ are making a quick buck NOW they couldn’t care less whether or not Friedman Policies work! This is the US, remember— the land of what’s-in-it-for-me-FIRST! and What-Have-You-Done-For-Me-Lately. Unfortunately, Ms. Klein’s sound advice and insights will fall on deaf ears.

Marcus Aurelius @ 1:

Never thought I’d say this, but the ’50s and ’60s were the height of the America experiment - and the beginning of the end..

Might not have been the beginning of the end if the Kennedys hadn’t been murdered.

Highly recommend this five video series on
http://dandelionsalad.wordpres.....on-videos/
incredible, and scary, origins of the present US government, got it first from Winter Patriot.blogspot.com
Kennedy assasinations JFK and RFK, probably the most likely and thought provoking analysis in documentaries that I have seen.

Tom Friedman has a platform. He thinks, therefore, whatever he says is correct. More important, MSM affirms his commenting.

Friedman is a jerk. A high-paid jerk.

Oh, and what a worthless piece of dung.

Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - Part 1 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka3Pb_StJn4

Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - Part 2 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3mpRkaz8g

Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - Part 3 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og2gYUVURAI

Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - Part 4 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvuGLM_Pe4

Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - Part 5 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FcoU0LLUU

Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - Part 6 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG_xRZW32X0

There is of course a sane way of recovering our economy. Not the obvious, impossible one where someone magically waves a wand over the people selling our country out to anyone holding a sack of money.

No it’s the one where somebody waves a wand over our military addiction and frees up all that money we shower on the defense budget. What’s it for? So the NSA and the NRO can count the pimples on our asses as we sleep?

Shit, stop shooting our economy into low earth orbit. It’s not worth what we get out of it. Give me the money they spend on a single satellite and I’ll find out what any government on the planet is up to. You do that with on the ground intelligence, gathered by people and clever machines that don’t cost you a single percentage of your economy.

Still think that 19 flight school rejects and a dialysis dependent cleric in a cave 5000 miles away pulled off the attack of the last 50 years?

Reichstag 1933 - false flag attack by the Germans, passed the enabling act, finalized Nazi stranglehold on government

9/11 - ????, passed the Patriot Act, the Military Commission Act, Presidential Directive 51, anthrax attacks, waterboarding-torture, renditions, warrantless surveillance of phone,mail, email, and internet, mercenary army empowered, etc, etc.

just a coincidence.

What is wrong with Milton Friedman? He was a good guy.

I agree completely. But the second blood-chilling point Klein makes in her book is that blind devotion to Friedman economic policy isn’t powered by Free Market ideology at all. It’s all about cold-blooded greed. It’s about creating chaos with a country in the guise of creating Democracy so that multi-national countries can feed on obscene profits. It’s about helping corporations like Enron get their hands on limited resources like oil, water and electricity. The deaths of human beings is merely the cost of doing business. Torture and murder is just another way of controlling costs. It’s economic rape and pillage on a global scale. It’s obscene and it’s been going on for decades under the guise of foreign policy. Add this groundbreaking book to the two books by John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hitman and The Secret History of the American Empire) and you get a compelling picture of what the Corporate World has been doing while the Fourth Estate, which it owns lock, stock and barrel, keeps lolling us to sleep with stories about Anna Nicole’s baby and Britney Spears’s lack of underwear. It’s time for Dorothy to stop looking at the big talking head and finally see what’s been going on behind that damned curtain.

George @ 10:

What is wrong with Milton Friedman? He was a good guy.

Naw…you’re thinkin’ of his brother Morty.

Let’s spend our money on things we want. Like roads and bridges and jobs and health ands levees!!!
The corporatists have been in the cookie jar long enough.

I’m voting for Dennis in the primary. Jus’ sayin’

I read her book, too, and found it pretty good. But unfortunately, the shock-doctrine/method is nothing new. It’s been exploited by EVERY cultural and economic revolution, regardless of the ideology behind that revolution. It was the reason Communism was able to take hold in Russia, Cuba and China. It was the reason the French revolution took hold, ditto for Naziism and Fascism.

It’s just ironic (but not surprising) that the ‘Corporatists’ have copied the methodology so successfully.

Besides being right, and damn smart, Klein is a hell of a lot better looking than Friedman.

nanderson @ 12:

George @ 10:

What is wrong with Milton Friedman? He was a good guy.

Naw…you’re thinkin’ of his brother Morty.

But he WAS a good guy. At least when he was so nice about driving Miss Daisy around, and all that.

solid @ 14:

Besides being right, and damn smart, Klein is a hell of a lot better looking than Friedman.

But then again, THAT TOO is part of the shock doctrine, isn’t it? The myth that only fat, ugly, middle aged men who wear glasses so thick they could set fire to ants, can have truly great ideas. Just look at Cheney. He spun himself into $200 000 000 and an assistant Emperorship on the back of that myth.

klein is brilliant. up there with chomsky and zinn, even.

Well, Freidmanism “works” if you want to create an oligarchy. So, move along, people! Move along! There’s no story here!

The “Free Market” captalism is anything but free market - like “clean air initiative”. It violates too much social and natural law to lead to anything other than a feudal economy. It is predatory and built upon injustice. A free market economy invariably leads to the corporate or aristocratic welfare system that serves only the rich and the powerful while impoverishing and diminishing all others.

Ever notice how the thieves, the plunderers, the ravagers and others among the corrupt powerful always find distinguished, honorable or noble-sounding euphemisms or titles for the harm they unleash and the crimes they commit? Thery wrap their activities in obscure or impenetrable made-up technical jargon to give their doings a veneer of legitimacy amongst the gullible, and they’re off and running. You’d think we’d learn.

Disaster Capitalism

November 29, 2007; Page A1

MERCED, Calif. — One day in late July, Jim Dawson happily returned home. He had spent the previous five months in the hospital battling an infection that nearly killed him. The phone rang shortly after Mr. Dawson and his wife, Loretta, entered their house.

It was the hospital. California Pacific Medical Center was calling to remind the Dawsons that they owed it $1.2 million.

Society has laws governing the actions of its people regarding murder, theft, arson, rape and assault because people simply can not be trusted to govern themselves. So too can organizations of people (whether corporate or otherwise) not be trusted to self regulate.

Also, if small governments actually meant less power in government then why do the words monarchy and dictatorship go hand-in-hand so often throughout history. If the size of government meant anything, it would show that power distributed among many people in a larger organization means no one official would have too much power.

The reality is, the size of the government is meaningless as long as they do not separate themselves from or place themselves above the people they serve.

Truly, Libertarian politics are as socially naive as Communism is economically naive.

Ayn Rand can kiss my ass.

It is an excercise in 1st year economics to show that ‘free market capitalism’ doesn’t work. Externalities, when the cost of producing a good or service is not reflected in the price, make free markets fail (that’s one example). The modern example of this particular ‘little’ is popularly called global warming, though it should be more accurately refered to as man made global climate instability. So, yes, Milton Friedman is an asshole. And so are all the ‘true believer’ republicans who actually believe all that BS that republicans sell. The real problem is the republicans who don’t believe it, who know it is BS and sell it anyway. The big issue of course is why do they sell it? And the answer is equally obvious: Self Interest, or the interests of those for whom they work.

Keith has been really building the case, and occasionally even articulating what is really going on with the Iraq War. We are n’t there to find WMD, and we aren’t there to bring capitalism, and we aren’t there make the world safe. We are there for the self interests of the powers that run this country. That includes oil, but is not limited to it. by starting a war in a foreign country they can wrap themselves up in the flag and immunize themselves from any and all questions, or opposition or accountability, and thus ’shock’ the system into giving the corporate oligarchs free reign over this country. Any explanation for what has happened in Iraq that involved ‘incompetence’ is extremely, sadly, naive.

I’m glad this segment happened w/out some loud mouthed counter panelist there to interrupt. This totally explains the insurgency and exposes the fact there is a country up for grabs and the last man standing will have it.

Fortunately, the type of government trying to push forward can never last… everyone wants to see what they can get so they can spend it. In the 21st century, there are far too
many pleasures, luxuries, and dreams for sale. Once the foot soldiers get their hands on the cash they’ll search high and low for ways to phk it all up. After they are broke, the loyalty ends.

L.A. Confidential @ 20:

Disaster Capitalism

November 29, 2007; Page A1

MERCED, Calif. — One day in late July, Jim Dawson happily returned home. He had spent the previous five months in the hospital battling an infection that nearly killed him. The phone rang shortly after Mr. Dawson and his wife, Loretta, entered their house.

It was the hospital. California Pacific Medical Center was calling to remind the Dawsons that they owed it $1.2 million.

“I do not deny that our charges look insane,” says Dr. Pont, CPMC’s chief medical officer. But all hospitals operate the same way, he says. “It’s the reality of the industry.”

L.A. Confidential @ 24:

L.A. Confidential @ 20:

Disaster Capitalism

November 29, 2007; Page A1

MERCED, Calif. — One day in late July, Jim Dawson happily returned home. He had spent the previous five months in the hospital battling an infection that nearly killed him. The phone rang shortly after Mr. Dawson and his wife, Loretta, entered their house.

It was the hospital. California Pacific Medical Center was calling to remind the Dawsons that they owed it $1.2 million.

“I do not deny that our charges look insane,” says Dr. Pont, CPMC’s chief medical officer. But all hospitals operate the same way, he says. “It’s the reality of the industry.”

From a story in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal about out-of-control hospital costs. . . . the man who is the focus of the story was charged $791 for stockings designed to improve blood circulation that are sold on the Internet for $12, and charged up to $6,675 a night for an oxygen mask to help him breathe while sleeping (rentable from outside medical supply at $250).

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....lenews_wsj

But, we liberals and progressives will have no part of a draft. A draft would preclude the privatization of the military and expose every college kid to reality, as we were during the Viet Nam mess. Who among us counsels our children to aspire to serve the country in the military? Thus, we turn it over to the American Christian Militia. We have done the same thing with police forces. Who wants their kid to be a cop? Thus, the police forces are recruited, in large part, from the same portion of the population that gives us criminals. (Tip of the hat to GV) It has been the America electorate that has spent years worshiping the economic policies that made Import Plaza a fortune, and sent our industrial capacity off shore. As Pogo said, “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

Skoobah13 @ 23:

I’m glad this segment happened w/out some loud mouthed counter panelist there to interrupt.

Couldn’t agree more!
Of course, any bright Canadian like Klein, wouldn’t appear on the US media under any other condition.

I don’t believe one word she says. However I might be convinced over a candlelight dinner and wine.

Just finished reading it…..I have to say that The Shock Doctrine is one of the most important books I’ve read in the last 10 years. After you read this you’ll feel like the clouds have parted and you can finally see things as they really are…but the downside is that the truth will make you mad as hell. I’m still trying to answer the question, what can I do about all this knowing what I know now? But that’s better than remaining ignorant I suppose. Read it!

It sounds to me like she’s trying to use the no-bid contracts, the cronyism, corporatism (which is a form of big govt) etc… in Iraq to bash free market capitalism, and the two are unrelated. Thats the impression I get, I havent read her book though or know much about her theory.

Another great book about how capitalism is failing us read ‘The End of the Line’. Depressing, but shows how and why western economies are a) being hollowed out and b) left very vulnerable. Might want to take an anti-depressant first though. Trust me.

Jonesy @ 30:

It sounds to me like she’s trying to use the no-bid contracts, the cronyism, corporatism (which is a form of big govt) etc… in Iraq to bash free market capitalism, and the two are unrelated. Thats the impression I get, I havent read her book though or know much about her theory.

Read the book. She’s not out to “bash capitalism”. That’s about as weak an argument as is any criticism of Bush being labeled “Bush bashing”. Lame.

Iraq was intended to be a (capital-L) Libertarian’s Utopia come true. But it turned out to be a good example of the disasters that happen when the “free market” runs wild.

For years I have referred to Milton Friedman (and only Friedman) as “the Anti-Christ”.

James Bishop @ 26 “Who among us counsels our children to aspire to serve the country in the military? …Who wants their kid to be a cop?”

These are fictions. PLENTY of Democrat parents want their kids to be cops, and plenty of Democrat parents want their kids to serve in the military. For the most part, those are good jobs for kids who don’t want to go to university.

What they don’t want is some maniac ruining the military career with an illegal and immoral war of conquest.

I always liked Milton because he was for the decriminalization of marijuana as was as was Bill Buckley. Two conservatives with a sane concept I can get behind.

Marcus Aurelius @ 1:

Never thought I’d say this, but the ’50s and ’60s were the height of the America experiment - and the beginning of the end..

I guess you weren’t alive back then, because that statement is HILARIOUS.

Marcus Aurelius @ 1:

Never thought I’d say this, but the ’50s and ’60s were the height of the America experiment - and the beginning of the end..

You were right, I was there. It’s over, they own or control everything now. We are doomed. The elections are fixed by the 2 parties. The MSM shuts out anyone that would upset the apple cart. They will soon put a stop to the free wheeling internet. It’s only a matter of time before, after some incident, they come for your guns, the only thing they have to worry about.

How would we even know if free markets work? We haven’t had a free market in America in 3 or 4 generations. Perhaps it started in 1886, when a supreme court decision initially gave corporations “citizen” status.

Ever since then, the corporate interests have never lost an opportunity to petition their government.

Today, the market tilts, unequivocally, in favor of corporate interests. The individual citizen, more and more, is treated as little more than a (potential) revenue unit. I personally resent being treated like this.

Friedman’s theories gave rise to the Reagan “Trickle down” theory of economics.
In my personal experience, the only thing that ever trickled down, in any economy, was debt load.

We don’t know what a free market economy is.

We haven’t even come close to a free market economy in at least 100 years.
And as long as corporations are allowed to exert undue influence on our government, we will NEVER know what a free market economy can do in America.

Nicole writes:

FRIEDMAN. POLICIES. DO. NOT. WORK. PERIOD.

Actually Nicole, I’m afraid that in the eyes of the followers of Friedman, the policies are working exactly as intended. These a**hats have absolutely no desire to sustain Democracy and are quite content if it can be replaced by an oligarch, as long as they are members of the ruling class. As for the rest of us, they could not care what we do or think as long as we maintain or role as members of the proletariat.

I can’t stand Tom Friedman, but he is not wrong about the “flat earth” economics at play. Remember, he didn’t invent them… he just pointed and said, “Hey, look.” (and made money extending that thought for 300 pages or so.

However, Naomi Klein is also correct - they are the undoing of any type of democratic government.

As others have mentioned in this thread, the experiment is over and it didn’t work. Money begets money and all the rest really doesn’t matter.

Doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to change things, of course, and I do hope for the best. I guess I just tend to have realistic expectations.

Anyway, Howard Zinn, Amy Goodman, Bill Moyers and all the rest have been talking about this stuff for decades.

Once the corporations succeeded in ruining the education system in this country, they won. As great as public education was - and can be - it is also the Achille’s heal of our system.

While the premise may already be a given to many people, it is still well worth your while to read this book. Klein is indeed an exceptional writer and thinker. The through line she builds in this book will be insightful, even to the fully indoctrinated. I happen to know her husband Avi Lewis - though not really well - and have had the priveledge of meeting the two of them a couple of times. Avi is a CBC News broadcaster and they are quite a remarkable duo. They also made an amazing film together called The Take.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Take

It’s great to see she is becoming so widely read.

AbbeyHoffmansGhost @ 28:

I don’t believe one word she says. However I might be convinced over a candlelight dinner and wine.

She’s married. I checked. Damn!

The interview on MSNBC was extremely interesting. I put Kline’s book at the top of my wish list right away. Fascinating.