Rigged Trials For Gitmo Detainees: "We can't have acquittals, we've got to have convictions."
By Nicole Belle Thursday Feb 21, 2008 12:31pmAt the time that we covered the story that the White House had decided to pursue secret trials of six detainees, including Khalid Sheik Mohammed for their roles leading up to 9/11, the comments for those posts were full of accusations of kangaroo courts. Sadly, but not surprisingly, those fears were right, as The Nation has found:
(A)s the murky, quasi-legal staging of the Bush Administration's military commissions unfolds, a key official has told The Nation that the trials are rigged from the start. According to Col. Morris Davis, former chief prosecutor for Guantánamo's military commissions, the process has been manipulated by Administration appointees in an attempt to foreclose the possibility of acquittal.
Colonel Davis's criticism of the commissions has been escalating since he resigned this past October, telling the Washington Post that he had been pressured by politically appointed senior defense officials to pursue cases deemed "sexy" and of "high-interest" (such as the 9/11 cases now being pursued) in the run-up to the 2008 elections. Davis, once a staunch defender of the commissions process, elaborated on his reasons in a December 10, 2007, Los Angeles Times op-ed. "I concluded that full, fair and open trials were not possible under the current system," he wrote. "I felt that the system had become deeply politicized and that I could no longer do my job effectively."
Then, in an interview with The Nation in February after the six Guantánamo detainees were charged, Davis offered the most damning evidence of the military commissions' bias--a revelation that speaks to fundamental flaws in the Bush Administration's conduct of statecraft: its contempt for the rule of law and its pursuit of political objectives above all else.
When asked if he thought the men at Guantánamo could receive a fair trial, Davis provided the following account of an August 2005 meeting he had with Pentagon general counsel William Haynes--the man who now oversees the tribunal process for the Defense Department. "[Haynes] said these trials will be the Nuremberg of our time," recalled Davis, referring to the Nazi tribunals in 1945, considered the model of procedural rights in the prosecution of war crimes. In response, Davis said he noted that at Nuremberg there had been some acquittals, something that had lent great credibility to the proceedings.
"I said to him that if we come up short and there are some acquittals in our cases, it will at least validate the process," Davis continued. "At which point, [Haynes's] eyes got wide and he said, 'Wait a minute, we can't have acquittals. If we've been holding these guys for so long, how can we explain letting them get off? We can't have acquittals, we've got to have convictions.'"
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This just made me sick... Its disgusting to even think so and for someone to say it is mortifying...But I guess every country has done smething equally horrenduous.. we just thought we knew better
Justice is not only blind. She is gagged and bound and held for ransom by this murderous administration. Fascism is on the march.
kangaroo courts?
execution squads?
secret jails?
trumped up charges?
tortured "confessions"?
yeeeeeeeeeppp.....sounds just like freedom, democracy, justice and liberty to me.
glooooooooooooooorrrrryy glory halleluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujah
Andy Worthington has been documenting the horrors of gitmo
If Haynes wants to use the Nuremberg trials as an example then maybe he should consider that the Government itself (in this case, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al) should be placed on trial. They have broken more actual Laws that can be proven, than any of these idiots they gleaned off the streets after 911 and through into prisons all over the world so they could torture them.
So in that case, YES, there should be trials like Nuremberg.
at least the nuremburg trials were public,as these should be.
"...how can we explain letting them get off? We can’t have acquittals, we’ve got to have convictions."
That's why they want to 'execute' all of them before they, Bush et al, are relieved of their duties to protect us.
E
Hey, its the American/Bush Way!
And, hey, Guantanamo was before Georgie started to focus. TGIF Countdown: Fortunately, in 333 days George Bush will no longer "focus on foreign policy," which is what the headline in yesterday's Washington Post said he would do in his final year. What a frightening thought. Think of all the damage he has done abroad for more than seven years without even focusing. Think what he can accomplish once he starts to focus . . .
Show trials followed by executions?
So much for 'Islamofascism'.
This is the real thing.
Sexy? These people are going to be lead to their deaths in a pre-determined trial and they refer to it as "sexy"? Thank you, Col. Davis for finding this as highly disturbing as the rest of us.
I do agree with the Nuremberg analogy. However, I think Haynes will find that it will be his own trial, not the "trials" of the Guantanamo detainees, that we will remember as being reminiscent of the Nuremberg trials.
Remember the dust up about whether Michelle Obama was proud to be an American and all that crap. Well, it's things like this that make me not a bit proud to be an American some times.
Can you imagine if Erich Kempka, Hitler's driver, had been sitting in the dock at Nuremberg beside Goering, Hess et al?
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, Salim Hamdan.
Shrub has to have these men killed before he leaves office so they won't talk about how they were tortured. Kinda' like Noriega rotting in prison so he won't tell what he knows about shrub's dad. If Noriega were to get out before he dies I wouldn't want to be riding in the same car with him. Accidents (as well as kangaroo courts) happen.
Bangkok Bob @ 5:
I'm with you... these idiots you call out (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al) deserve a trial and when proven guilty very long prison sentences that must be enforced.
Ozguy @ 13:
Exactly! what crime did Salim commit ...having a career as a chauffeur?
Ozguy @ 10:
so can we call it what it is? Americanofascism? or Amerofascism??
I'm not sure where the story is here.
Of course prosecutors don't want any acquitals.
Would there be any outcry
If the defence attorneys claim that they don't want any convictions?
However, the comment, if true, sounds like a presumption of guilt.
I've followed this for a while. Wm. Haynes is a hall of fame bush prick. He is one of the original Vulcans that saw all his pals falling out of the government in disgrace and ferreted himself into DOD. He has been up to evil(and I mean evil) since then. He has repeatedly tried to undermine the JAG system, tried to wrest control of personnel, even challenging promotions in all to gain or maintain political control of the trials. He is despised by all of the military judicial system, but has been relentless in trying to drive out any officers trying to maintain fairness in the system.
One of the best sources on this is Scott Horton, a lawyer that blogs at Harper Magazine. Harper.org/NoComment archives. He writes lots on Siegelman, DOJ and legal issues arising from the tyrant in the white house.
Another thing. The sole reason for crafting these Military commissions to try these guys is because of all the laws broken by bush, rumsfeld, and cheney, they couldn't even try them in a standard court martial or civilian court. So this whole commission is a kangaroo court that allows hearsay, results of torture, and secret evidence not shared with the defendant. Sound fair?
Justice? We don't need no stinkin' justice
The appearance of injustice backfires: Other combatants are enraged, fueled by injustice. The US uses the "reaction to injustice" as a pretext to expand the injustice.
They've got to get convictions on these guys because they can't do it for anyone else. They can't find Osama, (let alone find any evidence to him being behind 9/11) so they have to point the finger at someone to blame since they can't find the real perps. This is sick...
This is the kind of shit Michelle Obama meant when she made her "not so proud to be an American" comment. These fuckers think everyone is so stupid. The red flags are flying everywhere. What the fuck are these freaks trying to hide? Open trials, period. Imagine if the Nuremburg trials took place like this crap.
These poor buggers, guilty or not, are dead. Uncle Sam says so. Ah yes, democracy, civil rights and all that good ol' American pie you can eat.
Pictures snuck out of Gitmo:
http://www.kangaroocourt.com/KC-logo-new.jpg
right on! @ 17:
There are other people in this continent besides the US of A, therefore they don't deserve the label.
Why don't just call it what it is: plain old fascism?
In fact the current batch are even closer to the idea of corporatism that fascism was supposed to lead according to Mussolini et al: the perfect marriage between a totalitarian state and corporations.
Ironically the term "Islamofascism" is fairly inaccurate: fascist and theocratic ideals are fairly contrariwise of each other's interest, one follows a "national unity and salvation" approach to justify totalitarianism, and the other one follows a set of religious rules to squash democratic thought as being opposed to the divine will (I guess god or Allah must be real pricks)
It amazes me that the flag waivers so TOTALLY miss what it is that is unique about this country . . . the rule of law. If we try these people in our legal system, convict and punish, we take the moral high ground and perpetuate what should be the world's premier legal system. Instead, we are no better than the thugs we are fighting. The argument "they are bad people" has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not we have the moral courage to use our legal system to convict. We are pathetic.
Gee, Our Government might rig a trial?
Well, I'm glad I'll be able to go to my voting precinct in November...Hit that Diabold machine...and put a stop to that!!
Scy @ 27:
Which rule of law? The one that applies to everyday citizens? Or the one that applies to corporations and politicians?
the only difference between rigged trial at Gitmo and RIGGED Social Security hearings is that I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN
and why are the criminal terrorists in the whitehouse allowed to
continue to commit crime after crime and just walk all over
the American people and the Constitution of the USA?
dadams @ 31:
When they leave the can they have toilet paper stuck to their shoes?
But we claim to be a Democratic & free nation.......holding free & fair elections.
GOT BRAINS ????
The world sees, that we are no better and no light than others in the world
Gee, what a shocker! Honestly, is anyone really caught off guard by this?
"Sentance first! Trial Later!" ----Alice in Wonderland
we are through the looking glass folks.
The only way we can demonstrate that the America is different than our foes and that the Constitution is not just a scrap of paper is for extensive investigations and prosecutions once the Shrubbies are gone. Even if the Shrub hands out pardons left and right the pardoned should be brought before the proper forum and made to publicly testify under oath; they will either tell the truth or go down for perjury: the Shrub can't give them immunity for future crimes.
The sheeple are deluded into thinking that the moment we have a new president, this nightmare will automatically end overnight. They forget about Alito and Roberts who will continue to claim "it's all classified for national security reasons" --Javol mein Herr! ---and will stonewall every conceivable war crime and investigation. This nightmare will remain and all crimes will be covered up for generations unless the dumbed down sheeple rise up and demand true justice, which will never happen in our lifetimes.
As long as Israel is safe, that's all that counts.
ysbaddaden @ 18:
The difference is if a prosecutor doesn't have a case he can win, he lets the suspect go. That ain't happening here.
38 mystic
This sheep knows it's spelled jawohl.
Additionally, I've been talking about the fact that the next president might appoint two, possibly three justices, to those botniks who say about the primaries, my guy or the highway.
Joementum @ 39:
That's not an acquittal but prosecutorial discretion. The former is when someone's found not guilty; the latter is getting rid of the case due to lack of evidence.
This sheep knows it’s spelled jawohl.
Additionally, I’ve been talking about the fact that the next president might appoint two, possibly three justices, to those botniks who say about the primaries, my guy or the highway.
Achtung!! From your mouth to god's ears. Of course President Lieberman will not do that he's the VP who will inherit the presidency after President McCain dies of metastatic melanoma or old age or both).
42 mystic
Have you been paying attention the the news about mccan't the last two or three days?
Oh yeah, I only whisper sweet nothings into the ears of goddesses.
Heads will roll for this one. This is a sterling example the way the Shrub Maladministration operates. The sonofabitch needs to be impeached, tried for warcrimes, and hanged in the Hague. I'm done with even the slightest hint of civility towards the ruthless, murderous motherfucker.
ysbaddaden @ 41:
The six coming to trial are being prosecuted as a group. There is some nasty boys in this group, but there is also some highly dubious charges against others. The other thing; they are from different arrests at different times in different countries. So how can there be a sensible prosecution?
ysbaddaden Says:
"Have you been paying attention the the news about mccan’t the last two or three days"
Diebold doesn't pay any attention to any news like that. If anything he is emboldened.
Tyler Durden @ 26:
I agree with Tyler, but would go further and say that they(especially indignous) don't even deserve a label based on the name of a European explorer on this non-European continent.
RightOn: How about good ol' Yankee Fascism?
Col. Morris Davis should have our appreciation and gratitude. There are many fine people in the military and I think it is they who are keeping the lid on the "Crazies" in the WH right now.
This will just be a waste of time publicity stunt timed nicely for the end of the Bush admin's reign.
Disgusting.
And a genocidal war criminal like shrub will likely never face so much as damn parking ticket.
This is the Bush administration, just because there can't be a resonable prosecution put together doesn't mean that they won't be convicted.
This is not the only place where there is NO DUE PROCESS - cross examination, witnesses, exhibits, Rules of Evidence, appeals, etc. The republicans have been rigging the court system for years and they do it at the lowest level.
I commented under a McCain article at #176. I really hope for feedback, so I'll post this here.
These cases are rigged from the start - there are networks that work in the Court system called Father's Rights Organizational Groups (FROGs). They pay for cases and bonuses for exclusive winning.
The Government runs a pedophilia/child internet porn ring through the family court system. Most of it is done with Children and Youth - they take kids from poor women, young women - I have three women and I found the nonprofit my local County uses. They manufacture court records that moms are unfit - mostly they are just poor!
Another racket is called the Custody racket - where the court gives the kids ONLY to the Father - who the court already knows has incestuous sex with the child. The Courts use psychologists who claim it is the Mother's problem for thinking something is wrong with the sex abuse. http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/dallam/2.html
Mothers who do say something about the sex abuse lose the kids! The kids are given Threat Therapy and told to like the abuse or they will lose their Mother. They charge a lot of money to give Threat Therapy. They even put kids in Institutions for not obeying to receive intensive therapy.
I've got lots of cases where Judges know Dads are filming themselves having sex with their children - the Judge blames the Mother. The Judges are getting paid bonuses for each child.
There are men (Fathers, Abusers, Theocrats) who believe it is their right to abuse women and children. They believe the Bible is a greater rule of law than the constitution. Regent University is training lawyers in practice the Bible not the Constitution. They use networks like The Christian Legal Society to train lawyers to rig cases. The government is giving grants to universities to omit abuse, pedophilia, alcoholism, promiscuity - from all research on families and fathers. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Then the research statistics show up on places like familyfacts.org - a Heritage Foundation website promoting the Christian view of families.
The DOJ has been shutting down any investigation for years.
I've got a lot of research, proof and victims.
Any ideas???
Dead men tell no tales. That's the bottom line.
Yes indeed.
A scrupulously fair trial - followed by a first-class hanging.
Thank you for posting on this. Don't forget Scott Horton on it:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002460
isn't it odd how during the Bill Clinton administration they were able to convict the Blind Sheik in a transparent court...AND he's still in prison today! wow! Bill Clinton must have super-powers or this never could have happened right?!?
This reported today on Democracy Now!
CIA Admits Used UK Territory For Rendition Flights
The CIA has admitted the United States used the British territory of Diego Garcia during two extraordinary rendition flights in 2002. For years the U.S. had denied ever using any British airspace or territory for the secret flights but a recent US investigation uncovered two flights that stopped in Diego Garcia. The CIA continues to deny allegations that the US maintains a secret prison on the island in the Indian Ocean. British Foreign Secretary David Miliband broke the news to MPs on Thursday.
David Miliband: “Contrary to earlier explicit assurances that Diego Garcia had not been used for rendition flights, recent U.S. investigations have now revealed two occasions, both in 2002, when this had in fact occurred. An error in the earlier U.S. records search meant these cases did not come to light. In both cases, a single U.S. plane, with a single detainee on board, refuelled at the U.S. facility in Diego Garcia.”
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown expressed “disappointment” about the news.
Gordon Brown: “Well the United States has expressed regret that it did not know at the time of these renditions through Diego Garcia. The foreign secretary has made a very full statement in the House of Commons about the circumstances surrounding it. He’s also ordered further investigation into what may or may not have happened and will report back to the House of Commons and we’ve got to assure ourselves that those procedures will never happen again.”
Opposition politicians in Britain said the case undermines the credibility of the British and U.S. governments. Conservative Party politician Andrew Tyrie said that the matter QUOTE “will leave the British public unwilling to trust other assurances we have received from the U.S.”
It's just a continuation of the US and Britains lies regarding the islands of Diego Garcia. Our pathetic history....check this sad video
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thedude.com/images2/indian...
.
“… we can’t have acquittals. If we’ve been holding these guys for so long, how can we explain letting them get off? We can’t have acquittals, we’ve got to have convictions.”
R E M E M B E R:
The convictions come with the death sentence.
All good dictators understand the need to cover one’s tracks. In this case, how can a dead man speak truth? And how can that truth shed light on the events of 9-1-1?
Will it always be 19 box cutters?
Will 3.5 oz. of shampoo always explode?
Will being Muslim always make me the suspect?
.
just like the old days!gas grass or ass nobody goes for free!
Jo @ 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrSssTL_c5c
.
Bill Kristol and David Frum seem to be seriously underemployed right now. Perhaps they could earn a few dollars writing the scripts for the upcoming trials. It's the sort of work that gives their expansive imaginations scope to explore their real creative talents.
Railroad prisoners and execute them before Bush leaves office. Disgusting.
Where's Kafka when you need him?
I read the leadin paragraph to this thread and the first thing that enters my head is that old 'pledge of allegiance' thing we use to recite in gradeschool.... I don't think the schools do this anymore, don't know that for sure but I know it was just normal part of the beginning of a school day for me way back in the dark ages... And the final line keeps going thru my head...'and justice for all'......
That was a nice thought to hold... justice for all... regardless... So much for that... Still seems like a nice idea to me.. (Sigh). Just another thing the Bush administration has broken apart and shot to hell for their own twisted purposes.... Neuremberg? the Hague? War crimes trials??? Hell yeah.. Otherwise, really.. Why the hell did the leaders of the nazi regime pay the ultimate price for their crimes against humanity and these motherfuckers gets a walk with tax provided perks for the rest of their worthless lives? Huh? What the fuck is up with that?????? JD
Didn't Judge Roy Bean once say something to the effect of "let's hurry up with the fair trial so's we can proceed to the hanging"?
Should people who make statements such as these even be considered attorneys? Aren't they violating their own codes? I don't care if they are military lawyers, they should still uphold basic precepts of law. Why aren't the ABA and other watchdog law groups screaming? It is a sad commentary on the legal profession as a whole that they permit their own attorneys to openly and flagrantly ignore simple justice. Where is the peer review and disciplinary actions from peer reviews? It is time we heard some voices from attorneys about these things, and not some goofy caveat excuses.
@1
Don't kid yourself.
The list of countries that have crimes like this in their history is NOT a long list.
Tyler Durden says:
Tyler for the win...
Ralph Nader said George Bush was just like Al Gore. I believe he said Tweedledee and Tweedledumbass. Shows what that goof ball knows about sociopathic personalities.
Here's another obscenity that they're trying to pull: silencing witnesses.
http://www.miamiherald.com/548/story/405304.html
They're not interested in "protecting state secrets", these bastards want to prevent detainees from reporting how they've been treated.
One has to wonder what the US government has to hide to think this is necessary.
----------------------------------------------------------------
New court can silence captives who tell secrets
A new court at Guantánamo would allow the U.S. military to keep its secrets by cutting off terror suspects' testimony from the ears of observers at the flick of a switch.
BY CAROL ROSENBERG
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVY BASE, Cuba -- On the eve of the resumption of its war crimes trials, the military on Sunday unveiled a new state-of-the-art court capable of trying six alleged terrorists simultaneously -- and silencing them from the outside world, if they try to spill state secrets.
The military offered a comprehensive look at its new court, part of a $12 million razor-wire-ringed legal complex that arrived by cargo plane and barge in prefabricated parts.
[...]
Architecturally, the bunker-style building is a bland structure impenetrable to electronic eavesdropping.
[...]
It also has a 30-seat adjacent room, behind a tempered-glass window, where observers can hear the proceedings on a broadcast basis -- and a kill-switch where a security officer or the judge can cut the sound in case someone divulges a state secret.
There is no blackout capacity or curtain, meaning the media, legal observers, dignitaries and family members who might attend a trial could watch but not listen.
[...]
The agency has classified the interrogation techniques it used on the men -- in secret sites, somewhere overseas -- as national security secrets. Were one to blurt out his treatment at trial, the judge or security officer could simply stifle their voices.
----------------------------------------------------------------
There's a precedent for this. In 1865, eight of Booth's alleged co-conspirators in the assassination of Lincoln went on trial before a military commission (even though Lee had surrendered at Appomattox before the assassination, effectively ending the war, and even though civil courts were operating normally in Washington at the time).
All eight defendants were denied access to their lawyers in court, which meant that cross-examination of government witnesses was impossible. Seven of the defendants were hooded in prison, a torture tactic that drove at least one of them to madness. At least one government witness lied through his teeth about a supposed link between Booth and Jefferson Davis; the government knew he was a liar, but used his testimony nonetheless.
Booth's daybook (often called a diary) stipulated clearly that his intent all along had been to kidnap Lincoln, not murder him. Booth shot Lincoln only after his abduction plot had failed and been rendered moot by Lee's surrender five days earlier. At least half the defendants knew nothing of Booth's change of plans. But all eight were convicted, and four were hanged, following a notorious kangaroo court proceeding.
Substitute "Muslim terrorists" for "Confederate rebels" and you can safely predict the outcome of this upcoming trial.
So state sponsored murder of innocent people.
Wow.
"Ain't that America, something to see ya,
Ain't that America, for you and me ya,
Ain't that America, home of the free!! Ya ya ya.
Little Blood Red houses for you and me..."
I really don't think America is coming back, I live in Canada and it's still to close. My family is thinking about Europe to avoid supporting that Murderous Cartle/Reigme in Washington.
John @ 69:
I'm at the fight or flee stage. I can't just watch my great country of Canada becoming the gas depot of the American War Machine as it tramps across the globe.
There is just too much going on to be a conidence. Like Austria was to Germany, Mexico and Canada are the new fuel for the warmachine.
Stop it or ... Or I don't know what but we simply are on the 'verge' here. At wits end.
Reminds me of the Doonesbury skit about the 'Gang of Four' trial invitation letter Honey got from the Chinese government;
"PS: please be advised, defendants are guilty."
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