Bush admin: Never mind, the sky isn't falling
By Steve Benen Sunday Feb 24, 2008 7:15amSince the expiration of the poorly-named Protect America Act, the White House and its allies have gone to great lengths to argue that we should be absolutely terrified. Those mean ol’ Democrats in Congress have refused to give the president everything he wants, and the consequences, they’ve claimed, will likely be catastrophic. Congressional Republicans even created their own ad on the subject, “with the very straightforward message that the Dems will get us all killed by the gun-waving Muslims.”
Well, as it turns out, I have good news and bad news. The bad news is, the administration and Republicans on the Hill appear to have been proven wrong. Again. The good news is, the sky still isn’t falling.
The Bush administration said yesterday that the government “lost intelligence information” because House Democrats allowed a surveillance law to expire last week, causing some telecommunications companies to refuse to cooperate with terrorism-related wiretapping orders.
But hours later, administration officials told lawmakers that the final holdout among the companies had relented and agreed to fully participate in the surveillance program, according to an official familiar with the issue.
The closer one looks, the more it appears the administration’s fear-mongering was unfounded. Who would have guessed?
Also, Jay Rockefeller, Patrick Leahy, Silvestre Reyes, and John Conyers — the Democratic chairmen of the House and Senate intelligence and judiciary committees — had an op-ed in the WaPo today on the subject today.
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"The final holdout among the companies..." means that the last company that wasn't breaking the law decided illegal evesdropping is ok??? Or did I read it wrong?
Sounds to me like a back room deal was cut. Chimpy told them he was going to give them all a blanket pardon so you don't have to worry about those law suits. So feel free to break the laws.
I would also not be surprised at all to see the FCC hand out some billion dollar freebies real soon.
Some group here in Fla. is running a tv ad that basically says if you don't call your Dem. representative and tell them to give the president what he wants, we are all gonna die. At the end it says something like the president needs this action to keep us safe. The way the guy says safe, it sounds like a parent talking to a little child.
I forget which telecom didn't go along with the wiretapping, but I wonder if they got a lot of new customers from overseas recently. If this is such a big deal they probably shouldn't have published the name of the company not doing it. Just a thought. If I were one of the "bad guys" I might be changing my phone service right about now.
I have to wonder, since congress had passed a bunch of fisa shit that gave bush what he wanted, why was a telco holding out? What grounds did they have to hold out? Are we talking about Qwest that refused the gov't after 9/11? That was a long time ago. They've been holding out all this time? Does it mean that since they held out, the other telco's (and the bush admin, but thats a given) have still been breaking the law? If so, what did the changes to fisa that the congress pass actually contain?
Help me! I'm drowning in a sea of contextlessness and I'm too lazy and stupid to find these answers out myself!
FCC official stance: Boobies = Bad / Law Breaking against American civilians = Good.
Please...Bush and Co. have been proven wrong so many times by now that anyone who believes anything they have to say simply isn't bothering to use the brains that the Powers That Be gave them.
If this FISA mess doesn't get sorted out, we'll end up (if we haven't already started to move in that direction) in an American version of the film Das Leben der Anderen (The Live of Others).
The difference is, the American version is computer automated and uses AI (Artificial Intelligence) to do the snooping. All any spy agency would have to do is place the equipment in a secure room and flip the switch.
Mike McConnell says they have lost valuable intelligence because they are unable to gather it. CNN's John King asked him, "If you're unable to gather the information then how do you know you lost it?" Classic. McConnell changed the subject.
I'm not sure why no one said the following:
"The mere fact that Republicans and the Administration LETTING THE TERRORISTS KNOW that they feel they effectively spy on anybody they want amounts to treason. Why do REPUBLICANS hate America so much?"
pissed off patricia @ 3:
They are doing the same thing here in CT, and probably everywhere else. In my state I noticed they are targeting the Rep. whose district was the most hotly contested. Perhaps they figure he is likely to cave on this to get re-elected.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
Qwest. It's CEO was convicted in federal court of insider trading. Legal scholars who have reviewed the case have labeled indictments "specious." Seems he didn't fold under the boooosh admin's threat of a lockout from fed gov't telecom contracts. That folks is called extortion. Just like the Mafia. Sounds like a RICO (racketeer influence corrupt organization).
The group who are sponsoring the ad I mentioned in my comment (#3) is Defense of Democracies. Here's their website.
pissed off patricia @ 13:
Defense of Democracies? LOL -- Another Orwellian gem from the wingnuts
marco @ 12:
Wow, that's coincidental isn't it? The one company that didn't bend over and now one of their own is having legal problems. Who woulda guessed it? Hell, we all woulda guessed it.
Jay Severin Has a Small Pen1s @ 10:
Man, I need to get my coffee working....I meant:
“The mere fact that Republicans and the Administration are LETTING THE TERRORISTS KNOW that they feel they can't effectively spy on anybody they want amounts to treason. Why do REPUBLICANS hate America so much?”
Also...the fact that Bush can say he actually obeys Congressional oversight (i.e. laws passed by Congress) with a straight face makes me laugh.
Filthy Harry@5
It's worse that you think...
Qwest refused to paticipate in the shredding (warrantless spying) of the 4th Amendment about six months before 911 even occured!
This is when the first (request) demands for such illegal spying were made by cheney's (crypt) office.
Add to that the FACT that building 7 was a complete (shock and awe) demo... and you can see that it would be appropriate to take your children and run for your lives!
If you only had a compound in Paraguay (such as the Bushes and Moonies have) to run and hide in.
This is going to be a very interesting year!
Back to the Ghost Dance
Here's everything this website is built on: Crooks and Liars!
CBS aired its long-awaited feature on the prosecution and imprisonment of former Alabama Governor Don E. Siegelman this evening at 7:00. In a stunning move of censorship, the transmission was blocked across the northern third of Alabama by CBS affiliate WHNT, which is owned by interests of the Bass Family.
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002487
So, the Democrats finaly show courage and lose anyway? I don't understand!
We are simply one f*&k%d up country.
The President is a clown.
Bush's spy powers have been expanded to what exactly?
Leslie @ 22:
He finally received the mail order X-ray glasses that he ordered from the back page of a comic book.
Leslie@22,
That's a damn good question...
My sources tell me that God will soon be indicted on insider trading charges for the refusal to cooperate with cheney's office!
That f__ker is damn scary!
Leslie @ 22:
I think the spy powers he has are only limited by current technology. In other words they can't be expanded, he does whatever he wants. The current issue now is about getting away with it. And they're doing well.
Yesterday McConnell said that if they discovered the phone number of a suspected terrorist now, they couldn't plug it into the whatever they were using to track terrorist phone calls. The computers wouldn't know to pick up that particular number when they were tapping calls. Sounds a little on the lame side to me.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
They'd change if they could, but even Al Qaeda feel naked without their iPhones.
pissed off patricia @ 26:
Well, could be true...I mean the mightiest country on the planet couldn't catch the most wanted man on the planet...that Osama guy.
But if there's a faulty telecom satellite about to fall outta sky, we got that covered. We sure are good at blowin' shit up.
Just a thought but if you were a bad guy, would you use methods of conversation that could be tapped or bugged? Maybe they're smarter then we give them credit, granted some thugs are stupid, a major player in bad guy operations with his/her shite together would not fall for the banana in the tailpipe would he?
Interestingly enough Jay Rockefeller's top contributor to his campaign is AT&T, ever wonder why he would pass a bad bill?
Bluestocking @ 7:
The Powers That Be did not give me my brains. In fact all evidence suggests they wish i had none.
vix @ 29:
Our government is broken. Period. It's just like living in a neighborhood with declining property values. No one is interested in fixing it, no one is interested in changing it, the powers that be are sucking whatever they can out of it until it turns into a slum and then abadon it.
It's simply time to move.
I guess the feds finally paid their bill. The telecoms were cutting the government off for non-payment.
sundog @ 8:
You mean like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein
Kevin @ 33:
Or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
Well, when I start growing pot in my basement to pay of student loans, I'll remember that when an officer shows up with a warrant, I don't have to cooperate... Oh wait, that's right... Corporate citizens have many more rights then us lowly independent citizens.
What will REALLY SUCK is if there is another even MODERATE attack on the US, Bush will be jumping up and down for joy, and the populace will capitulate easily. They'll blame the democrats, people will believe them, no matter how incompetent and corrupt the DOHS and other useless hastily built bureaucacies are. They're foaming at the mouth for more Americans to die.
DavidtheDuke @ 36:
Ain't that the sad truth. What wouldn't I give to be a blissfully ignorant child once again. [CAUTION: May still be ignorant.] But the populace has been fooled for generations, and greed and selfishness is the only thongs that seem to resinate. *sighing deeply*
Thongs? Damn!
How many of you clicked and read the WaPo Op-Ed? If you had, you might have noticed this little gem:
"Companies that provide lawful assistance to the government in surveillance activities should be legally protected for doing so."
Yes, I agree. And the ones who comply with ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES should be held responsible for their complicity.
NO RETROACTIVE IMMUNITY!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver
Medford Tim @ 39:
Of course, domestic terrorism isn't a right it's an obligation acording to the Declaration of Independence(providing abuses by the current government). Foriegn terrorism is another matter.
And here in FL, the GOP is airing the despicable tv commercial berating the Dems for allowing the bill to "lapse" causing the country to now be unable to "listen to al Qaeda phone calls".
The GOP should change their name to LCD, because that's exactly who their base is -- the Lowest Common Denominator.
The whole issue of America’s “Public Domain Electromagnetic Spectrum” and the FCC has been and is a combination of a long time Political Cultural Corrupt Play Ground. For decades, masked, hidden, covered up, gamed, by most all of the front line Journalist in those round table discussions, Hardball or Dodge ball with Chris Mathews, Tim Russert, Cookie, or George Will that always reduces down to hypocrisy, with long analysis pulling recipes that adds flavor to a contextual twist to what was really said and thought about by some other person.
George Will made the most important comment: in the sense of gaming the system. From my perspective George as one of the first line long time Journalist, an award winning Journalist General with Pulitzer badges or Nobel citations tells America about the Game being played?
When we know George is and has been the key player in major corporate dodge ball that has been screwing the electorate for decades with misinformation covered up through Bush and Companies favorite theme “National Security Secrets” hidden with billions of fresh money, in spider holes, the merit prize to ink the paraphrased corporate legal ease that guide the general television programming laws. Powerful secret money that can carrot and stick even Huckabee to get payment for services to the paradise islands for making a living through the transparency of modern day profiteering.
What American’s are finding frightening is a huge abuse connected to the patriotic secret wire tapping that appears to be so oh connected to a mess that “Is hard to believe in”. A long time money and corruption storm swarming Obama now, that once was the across the board mainline Journalist army that always blasted the Clintons is now aimed at Obama, and, Obama, has no clue how to cure it, or really doesn’t understand the tsunami political wave coming at him. The question is will Obama save himself, or be the one that will bring balance to the force.
The Republicans sniff an increasing truism that Obama is some what of a racist, and a cold fish, with the best messianic accolades ever presented, to move a crowd of the ignorant, supported quietly by an army of young Republicans so called college special’s flooding Caucuses creating the specter of a win, and rallies appearing to be with Obama’s new wave of change. However, pressured by experienced Republican parents the college crowd will likely say, sorry Barack, but we changed our mind. McCain is the best way to go.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
WHY? Qwest will and MUST comply with LEGAL wiretaps. The only people who have something to gain by using Qwest are political enemies of the Boosh admin -- war protesters, Democrats, and libertarians. Those groups are likely being spied up illegally. As I said before though, if a call goes through an AT&T, Verizon, or Sprint switching office, it doesn't matter if you're a Qwest customer or not as Boosh people can still pick it up. Even without Qwest's cooperation, they're still probably able to illegally intercept 75% or more of the domestic calls in the country.
Filthy Harry @ 5:
I couldn't figure that out either. At first, I thought they were talking about Qwest. But now I think they're talking about how some of AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint balked at the idea of continued warrantless taps after Congress failed to pass ex post facto immunity. But whichever one was holding out, that company is now back in line. My guess is that is it Sprint because they are in the worst shape financially, with the lowest profits last year and would be hit hardest by the lawsuits. ATT and VZ make so damn much money they'll hardly notice.
pissed off patricia @ 15:
sarcasm No way! Everything's a coincidence! You must be nutty or something! /sarcasm
There's a mafia in DC. It's called Pee-NAC. I'm sure the conversation with the former CEO went something like this:
Boosh amdin: Hiya Joe. Wow, this sure is a nice company you got here. Nice fiber optic network. It would be a shame if sumptin were ta happen to it. Now Joe, we need complete access to your company's network. Is that ok?
Nacchio: Well I can't let you wiretap without a warrant. It's against the law. It's not right for me to do that, and it would expose the company to numerous lawsuits were it to be found out by our customers.
Boosh admin: Joe, I'm sorry that you feel that way. OK. [Looking at diagram of Qwest fiber optic network] Wow, that sure is a nice network. I hope nuting happens to it Joe.
1 year later, which Nacchio is taken in for insider trading....
Boosh admin: You see, Joe, that's what happens! That's what happens Joe!
In fact, it kind of reminds me of this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IfSDrKXvrC4
Nice editorial. I could just see those guys cowering while they wrote it.
Yes, exactly. Telecom cooperation with Bush's illegal domestic spying is all about the millions they're making off the government contracts. It has nothing to do with "patriotism" or catching the "bad guys." Bush doesn't pay the bills and the telecoms shut down the program. Maybe when the article talks about one telecom holding out, that's who they mean?
And, Chris, #44, we're all being spied on, not just Democrats. It's one big broad brush. Who do they have listening at the other end, going through the mounds of "intelligence"? Hasn't Bush privatized that too?
the only thing falling from the sky is a load of poo from bush's
and the gop's collective pants......shame on all of them.
Impeach bush and cheney now!
Gee, I don't know anybody that really likes to be sued. To hear them all talk like being sued is no problem leaves one to wonder why so many Congressmen try to hide behind the "Speech and Debate Clause" for things they didn't do on the House floor or in committee hearings.
These right-wing fear mongers are sickening. The original FISA law is still in place and can still be used to gather information for legal purposes. What the president wants is a blank check to break the law by spying on his own citizens. He is not the king of this nation and frankly at this point he is no position to be demanding anything. The president wants immunity for telcoms not only to protect their bottom line, but also to protect his. With immunity there will be no investigations which means we, the people, will never know the full extent of the law breaking that went on the in fabricated fear following 9-11. It's time to stop living in fear like cowards and start standing up, bravely, for what is right...like Americans used to do. Impeach Bush and Cheney and investigate ALL of their wrong-doing now.
Bush admin: Never mind, the sky isn’t falling
The group booshco outsourced the job of shooting down of the killer satellite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flj3SvahA3I
It's a crime to mislead congress.
I would ask for documentation and verifiable information on what was lost.
Otherwise, we got a new crime to prosecute.
Liberal AND Proud @ 28:
Joementum @ 14:
1) Something that doesn't gel to me about wingnut talk of America as the mightiest power on the planet is that this mightiest power faces ONE THREAT ABOVE ALL ELSE, and that THREAT shifts every day, or at most every week depending on what they need to keep the flock in line. I mean, consider..... first, back in Colonial days it was the Natives, then when we started to expand and black slavery became entrenched, in the South it was a nonexistent threat of rape and in the North a threat of subhuman black presence, upon the abolition of slavery it shifted to the Irish in the East, the Chinese in the West, Indians that hadn't been put in concentration camps, and in the South the apartheid system. Later on, it shifted to the Communists about the 1880s-1919, remained anti-Communist (with a strong anti-Semitic overtone), and then for a brief time in WWII the old anti-Asian prejudice flared back up again. After this happened, the Enemy Within became (post 1960s) the blacks, the Wimmins, the gays, the Mormons, and whenever they became enough of a nuisance to remind people they still existed, Natives. Nowadays it is blacks (as evidence: the anti-Obama rhetoric), the wimmins, (as evidence any word out of a right-winger's mouth regarding Senator Clinton), the gays (no evidence needed), the Mormons, the Muslims, and increasingly Jews again. Fortunately for the Natives people have put them largely out-of-sight, out-of-mind again, else we'd be hearing Wingnut hatred on them, too. It's always struck me as odd that a large section of the country must have some enemy to unite themselves against, or they're lost. The xenophobia of the Pan-Homo clade in its ugly glory, I wonder?
2) The easiest way to subvert democracy is to change the definition of democracy. Not that the American political system has ever really been truly Democratic. For a brief, shining moment in the 1960s and early '70s, it seemed as if America might become so. But, that moment passed and '60s idealists became '80s materialists. Unfortunately.
CafeenMan @ 1:
^
|
What he said.
Perhaps I'm misreading this, or viewing it through overly cynical filters, but I fail to see any good news here. The fact that Bush was wrong isn't really significant enough anymore to count as good news. And as for the rest of it, now the telcos will go ahead and break the law anyway?
Uh.
I thought the whole point was to put a stop to the extra-FISA surveillance in the first place.
I don't really see what all the fuss is about. Does anyone seriously believe the Bush administration is going to pay any attention to a little detail like legality? The fact that the Protect America Act (right up there with Clean Skies and Healthy Forests) expired wouldn't bother an administration that illegally wiretapped for years before the story broke. Nothing has changed--a president who broke the law in 2001 isn't going to become a law-abider in 2008.
Basically sounds like the administration threatened the last remaining honest communications companies into participating in illegal wiretapping. Awesome, the US Gestapo strikes again!
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