McCain jumps into autism controversy, rejects science and evidence
By Steve Benen Sunday Mar 02, 2008 6:30pmI can appreciate that this is an emotional issue for some people, but if we limit ourselves to evidence and science, it looks like we have yet another issue in which John McCain doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
At a town hall meeting Friday in Texas, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., declared that “there’s strong evidence” that thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative that was once in many childhood vaccines, is responsible for the increased diagnoses of autism in the U.S. — a position in stark contrast with the view of the medical establishment. [...]
McCain said, per ABC News’ Bret Hovell, that “It’s indisputable that (autism) is on the rise amongst children, the question is what’s causing it. And we go back and forth and there’s strong evidence that indicates that it’s got to do with a preservative in vaccines.”
As is too often the case with the senator, his comments were ill-informed and misleading.
ABC News’ Jake Tapper ran a helpful report that cut through the spin and presented people with the evidence -- all of which contradicts McCain's remarks.
This is not just a problem of another Republican leader who has little use for evidence and reason. As Kevin Drum noted, McCain’s confusion, when shared with large audiences, can have public-health consequences.
The odds of thimerosal being responsible for autism are now slim and none, and perpetuating this myth does real damage — both to the cause of autism research and to the millions of parents who hear this and decide to keep their children from receiving the normal complement of childhood vaccines.
So what happened here? Why did McCain perpetuate this rubbish without even a smidgen of doubt in his voice? Was he pandering to some constituency or other? Was he just making shit up because he didn’t really know anything about the subject? Was he misinformed by own staff about this? Unfortunately, my guess is that the correct answer here is “making shit up,” a quality that McCain has shown an unfortunate weakness for in the past.
I know reporters love the guy, but the reality is that John McCain tends to say whatever thought pops into his head, without much regard for whether it’s true or makes sense. As Mark Kleiman added, “The best one can say for McCain’s behavior is that it marks him as a fool, willing to flap his jaw about important topics based on ignorance.”
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That's OK they have a cure for Autism now. Some people are even taking the drug recreationally cause it helps them concentrate and shout out the outside world.
Problem solved!
Next topic?
the rise in autism cases is due to over-eager teachers, psychiatrists and doctors with a vested interest in prescribing as many kids as possible with medication and clinical visits, for as long as possible. the rise in autism is a rise in false positives. the rise in autism is due to the pharmaceutical-industrial complex that nobody wants to admit is alive and well.
and wtf are we taking msm and physicians with a vested interest in positive PR for pharma companies at their word that the levels of mercury in vaccines are "safe".
sorry C&L - I'm not a McCain fan, but I find myself agreeing with the man here. you tsk'ing him is not unlike FOX reporting tsk'ing your viewership question what "really" brought building 7 down. - but Popular Mechanics debunked it! =\
Shut out. Not shout.
the current bush is delusional and lives in his own reality,
what are we to do mcfucked-up when his delusional mind
makes up some bullshit and he pushes the "mushroom"button
without cause.
we don't need another fucking irrational idiot in the whitehouse !
This is the problem with many people in today's world. There are no facts, only opinions. It could be that McCain is simply misinformed - lots of people are - but let's watch to see if anybody in the MSM picks this up and asks him about it again.
man my grammar sucked in that last post. guess I must be autistic. I'll have to mull that one over while I munch down this tuna fish sandwich.
;)
It was the vaccine preservatives that brought down building 7? Shit we solved two problems!
What else, the repugs don't believe in science.
McCain's "Reagan moments" are getting deeper and more frequent.
He is a very frightening man.
Well yes, when the MSM reports on it, it IS the truth.
burnt @ 2:
as per your blogname, your brain is also.
Wait until someone asks him about the affects of depleted uranium. He'll claim that it is a known cure for the bird flu, but only if you take it rectally from a Halliburton made turkey baster. Brilliant!
This site would do well to "look at the science" and question the science backingup the government and vaccine manufacturers claims. It is wrought with conflicts of interest.
The government just concede a case in the Vaccine Court. There are ~4.900 pending.
Ron @ 8:
you are so right. most of them have fallen off the edge of the flat-earth.
http://io9.com/349956/one-pill-makes-you-autistic-++-and-one-pill-change...
Oh here's the link to the article on the autism drug.
Maybe McCain could take it in front of a crowd of supporters while being waterboarded to show them both are A' OK.
Yet another injection of anti-McCain! Soon the body politic will be totally immune to him. Stick 'em again, John!
the rise in autism cases is due to over-eager teachers, psychiatrists and doctors with a vested interest in prescribing as many kids as possible with medication and clinical visits, for as long as possible. the rise in autism is a rise in false positives. the rise in autism is due to the pharmaceutical-industrial complex that nobody wants to admit is alive and well.
With all respect, that is a pack of horse shit. My niece is autistic, my neighbor's son has Asperger's, and I work with autisitc kids at my school all day. Spend a day with us, and get a clue.
You don't know what you're talking about, other than you might be more accurately talking about ADHD.
As for McCain, as dumb as he is, I think the jury might still be out on the vaccine angle.
The U.S. is SO behind the world in science and technological development there are many that think we'll never catch up. Pur fear of the knuckle-draggers and their 6k year old Earth and Intelligent Design idiocy have sunk us. The bananna republic that is America is all the remains. Fortunately, Europe and much of Asia isn't so ignorant and scientific research their abounds. As long as the work is done, I suppose. Pathetic that we will probably never again do it here. Why? Cause we gotta sit in our pick-em up trucks and wait for JEEBUS!!
Soory about the spelling there. I was pissed off a bit...
Let's not forget that RFK Jr. was one of the strongest proponents of this whole thimerosal-autism conspiracy theory. I'm not sure if he's had anything to say recently since the data proved he was wrong.
I don't think you can pile on on this one. IIRC, that thimerosal study is still fairly fresh. That McCain wouldn't have known about the study doesn't surprise me at all.
And, maybe the question was *GASP* not pre-screened! Not that I'd vote for McCain, but a break from recent Republican tradition would be...refreshing!
sent the post to the entire family..
...check out crooksandliars.com
Please pass on or forward to every expectant mom you know
or every parent dealing with an autistic child.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88...
Feb 28, 2008 08:35 AM PST
Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - mercury-containing vaccines
After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD),
the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.
Category: SCIENCE/HEALTH
As many patriotic nurses say - we need an FDA that protects people - not pharmaceutical corporations
There was just a recent case where the gov settled with the parents of a little girl who was fine until she received the six or so infant immunizations. She became manic and then autistic. By the way the Amish have a no autism in their community and they do not immunize.
You can read the details of the lawsuit here
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.immunology/browse_thread/thread/9...
Autism aside, vaccinations have gotten out of control. There are more than twenty recommended by the government for kids. I know we had some horrible diseases in the past but this is getting ridiculous and may have an adverse affect.
A vaccine against chicken pox! let the kid's have the disease. It's rarely fatal and it builds character. Shit it may even have a purpose we don't understand.
curtilingus @ 1:
I think you are confusing ADHD with Autism. Unless you are being sarcastic and I am missing it?
burnt @ 2: The pharmaceutical industrial complex will protect its own.
I think the chimpster owns a lot of stock in pharma companies...
my friends.
as stated somewhere above, yes, he is VERY dangerous.
my friends.
ASS ... ??? ... Hole in the Ground,
you see the difference here john?
It's too bad people choose to politicize this issue. John McCain included.
STEVE you should really look at this issue deeper.
You are belittling a health controversy you don't have enough information on either.
The use of thimerosal (the same stuff as in the old Mercurochrome) in vaccines was STUPID, and could easily have led to a range of neurological illnesses.
That said, the embrace of pharmacology involved in "the normal complement of childhood vaccines" is one of Kevin Drum's classic mealy-mouthed utterances. There is plenty of reason to be concerned about FOR-PROFIT immunizations in some sort of 'normal' complement.
Health problems resulting from arguably unnecessary vaccines (MMR is one, and more will be developed) remains a concern.
Explain to me again Senator McCain, how a sheep's bladder may be used to predict earthquakes.
I'm exaggerating a little fanon.. They cured autism in mice and german researchers experimenting with the drug are able to induce an autistic state. They feel this will lead to a better understanding if not a cure.
Oh and to everyone: stop filling your children with so many drugs, vaccines included!
curtilingus @ 24:
[Emphasis added.]
Yeah, it's a warning that if you live close enough to another species for long enough, you share viruses with them. And it can be uncomfortable and/or deadly to do so.
The Smiths @ 22:
I think there is a wing at gitmo for people who say such things.
steve you really should do some research.
This is not a Republican issue. The leading proponent of the mercury in vaccine causes autism theory is RFK Jr. and he continues to promote that theory, and support lawsuits based on this theory, even though the scientific evidence has seriously undermined it. McCain is wrong but not because of some general Republican distrust of science.
JDS
While it's true that the Amish have a low autism rate, it's not true that they have none. Plus, people often think that 'autism' is the extreme example usually used (no, or little, connection to the outside world). Autism actually covers a whole host of behaviors and diability. Kids that would have been considered "different" when we were growing up may have actually fallen along the autistic spectrum. The increase in diagnoses is the development of better identification of these 'different' kids. The Amish may be more tolerant of different behavior in their community than the mainstream and may only identify their extreme cases.
Thimerosal has not been in children vaccines for a couple of years and yet Autism continues to be a problem.
Perhaps it is time to look elsewhere for the cause?
Does anyone know what the Eurpean's position is on this? I trust their judgement much better than ours. They dont prescribe anti depressants to children under 18 because it is unsafe and wrong. We prescribe them to children to grant the pharmaceutical companies as many customers as possible.
Not to take McCain's side, but you are speaking of the same "medical establishment" that listed homosexuality as a brain disease until less than 1/2 of a generation ago, right?
I would have respected McCain more if he had reflected a little bit and then responded that he didn't have enough information to comment. I don't expect politicians to be experts in everything. But, I sure don't expect them to jump into a controversy over which some experts are still in disagreement about.
A women in the article was quoted as saying they were "waiting for a responsible answer" and I guess the still are.
I vote for a healthy helping of distrust for big pharma and ABC news. How's that?
QuakerDave @ 17:
Vaccines? Trust science? Yeah right! McCain is probably right on on this one. I wouldn't and didn't put a single vaccine in my children and neither have most of the people I know.... it's frightening what they put in there - bits of monkeys - who the frig knows? I don't trust the vaccines nor the pharmaceutical companies nor the scientists who spout their data - not one iota.
You guys all missed the boat on this one. The reason McCain is spouting off on this subject like he knows what he is talking about is because he heard all this from Imus. As you know Imus and his wife have been claiming for years that this particular additive to vaccines has been a cause of autism. I have heard him go after McCain and others time and time again over this.
The real eye opening aspect of this story is that the guy who thinks he should be the president gets his medical and scientific advise from a narcissistic, egotistical, ex cocaine addict. In all of McCain’s entire statement there is not one thought that someone hasn’t placed there for him.
There's is a whole bunch of crazies who are convinced that vaccines are the cause of autism in their children. It doesn't matter that there is no evidence for it, these people have their emotions and their infallible paternal instincts screaming for a scapegoat.
It's all fine and dandy until enough people don't get their shots and screw it up for all of us.
Dementia and autism are different diseases. How can McCain talk about one when he suffers from the other?
Radically Moderate @ 37:
Better update your source
several vaccines still have itfor preservative use (Flu shots, Some tetanus, Japanese Encephalitis)
thimerosal was removed for PRESERVATIVE use but still remains in residual from the manufacturing process
It is still being injected into kids.
As far as research on thimerasol compare toxiciology studies to the epidemiological ones used to justify it. Epidemiology looks at numbers and each of these studies have questionable data sets which "water down" the result.
These Repugnicans are the ones who still think that marijuana is "the Killer Weed" and send kids to jail for smoking reefers(not to mention chronic pain and cancer victims) But alchohol is okay because that industry contributes big bucks to political campaigns. As a former nurse, I've seen too many people dying from alchohol related problems. I've never seen anybody bleed to death out of their esophagus(esophageal varices) from smoking pot.
Oh, well; a country of BS laws is a country full of lawbreakers.
dadams @ 4:
Just give him his mushrooms and change his bedpan?
#440, thanks! Mmmmmmmmm....shrooms...
;-}
curtilingus
The Europeans have been involved in large sized studies over the past few years exzploring the possible genetic causes of autism. They have also debunked the thimerosal-autism link as have the Institute of Medicine, WHO, CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics. Interesting link http://www.fumento.com/disease/kennedy.html
The Smiths @ 22:
Think I'll go with the Center for Disease Control on this one. Since Thimerosal was deleted as a preservative in 2001 there has been no reduction in the incidence of autism. Thimerosal was removed because internet rumors regarding it's effect was leading to reduced rates of immunization. http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm
Every word that mercury causes some autism is true, but it doesn't cause all autism. There is a link between mitochondrial DNA damage when mercury is introduced along with the dead and live viruses in the third set of mercury containing vaccines. 3 times the recommended dosages. You should really research all the facts it's not easy to take that they are doping your children with all this crap. The vaccines are easily poison, it's just that manufacturers make a killing. Just look at the results with the HPV farce. It does nothing to curb HPV and causes cancer and other ailments. Anyway here's a helpful recent article. Imagine the lawsuits. Due to it's mercury content it allows the led in the ethyl group to easily bond to tissues in the brain causing lack of oxygen and kills nerve dendrites. This kind of infusion also destroys the chance of pathways in the brain forming correctly after the shot is received. Mercury is toxic in any form.
Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - Now What?
David Kirby
Huffington Post
Thursday, February 28, 2008
After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.
The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff's identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.
The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases.
[Snip]
Many people look forward to hearing more from HHS officials about why they are settling this claim. But whatever their explanation, they cannot change the fundamental facts of this extraordinary case:
The United State government is compensating at least one child for vaccine injuries that resulted in a diagnosis of autism.
And that is big news, no matter how you want to say it.
NOTE: Full text of the government's statement is posted here.
David Kirby is the author of "Evidence of Harm - Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic, A Medical Controversy" (St. Martins Press 2005.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88...
[Sorry to delete so much of this, but bandwidth costs... Next time please limit it to a few paragraphs and the link. Thanks! Site Monitor]
McCain for the first time has said something I might agree with.
Mercury has this report card:
In water, 2ppb makes the water undrinkable.
In fish, 1000ppb makes the fish unedible.
In vaccines you get 50,000 ppb per jab.
If dropped on the floor, the vaccine becomes a hazardous waste
( >200ppb).
100 bucks from me cash for the first adult that is willing to take the equivalent adult dosage of mercury laced vaccines given to infants.
curtilingus @ 38:
Other countries removed it before our country increased the number of vaccines given children. The Danish studies used to refute a link fudge their data and is done by a vaccine institute which would have liabilty.
Now the WHO is trying to promote mercury use claiming it is cost effective
Mike @ 20:
I checked his web site and although he there is nothing new about thimerosal-autism he certainly has not taken down his 4 articles that claim a link between thimerosal and autism.
Radically Moderate @ 37:
Doesn't sound like it. This from http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1)
Even extremely small traces of mercury can't be good for the brain or nervous system. Mercury is not supposed to be in our systems at all. Scientists proclaim all sorts of things... until they find out how wrong they were then they backtrack.
Perhaps mercury is passed down from vaccinated parent to child in utero... don't know, wouldn't surprise me.
Of course, people get mercury in their blood stream from many sources - dental fillings, eating fish, etc.
The need for thimerosol is to preserve vaccine material in a multi-use vial. It makes the distribution more cost effective (cheaper and thereby more profitable). If it were removed, vaccine makers would have to use something else or supply the vaccines in single-dose packaging. They get around the problem now by reducing the concentration to a level considered to be a "trace" amount, add a ton of aluminum as an adjuvant, and can thereby can claim that vaccines are "mercury free" when they are not.
Autism is of course a neurological disease and methyl mercury is a potent neurotoxin. So it's natural to draw a parallel. But thimerosol is only one of a wide range of other chemicals and genetically altered biologic material that is titred into the bloodstream. What is suggested by those who have followed this issue closely over the years is that the one size fits all vaccine policy in the US, one that does not at all take into account any genetic predisposition for adverse reaction, is partly to blame for such close tracking between vaccine rates and a broad spectrum of neurological disorders.
With the loss of the basic universal legal premise of "informed consent" I see further disaster to follow.
Inquiring minds might ask simply whether the potential risks inherent in all medical treatment (a vaccine is indeed a prophylactic medication) is offset by a far greater benefit. Looking carefully at the disease statistics that all of the vaccines are supposed to prevent might give one a clue. This is the secret truth: the vaccines are not necessary except to maintain resistance. But what happens when the bugs become resistant to the vaccines? Some scientists believe this is happening, just as it is with antibacterials.
Of course, there is the "herd immunity" argument and the other one that says "vaccines work". Both are indisputable. But what deserves scrutiny in the necessity for so many vaccines (I call them convenience drugs) delivered with a cookie-cutter policy.
It is difficult for the Physician to examine their own navel. It's even more difficult when vaccines are a huge profit-center for the medical-industrial complex. Of course, such examination will not happen in the current climate, but still I have to say it's long overdue. What's even more important is to not lose the doctrine of informed consent. When this goes - which basically says we no longer have control over what goes into our body - we're indeed screwed.
chewbacca @ 46:
You are correct about thimerosal in adult vaccines, but it has been removed from child vaccines.
@ The Smiths
It still is being put into the formula. It can be found on the packaging label. If you want to be certain, you need to check the formula labels of the actual bottle to see what the preservatives are listed.
Dutch Delight @ 44:
I agree there are some important vaccines out there, but how many did you give your children? Do you and your family get a flu shot each year? If not, could you be screwing it for some people. The flu can kill an elderly person. We must not take any chances.
Proud2bHumble @ 48:
Portobello or blue ones? Time for a field trip to the frontal lobes.
I have a science and an education background, and it has become increasingly difficult to make sense of either discipline anymore.
Meanwhile, let's not forget that scientists and doctors sat on the info that smoking tobacco caused cancer--for a good 10 years.
Bald Face Lie @ 52:
Link your garbage, please. A dropped immunization is considered toxic waste? Really, are we going to call inthe Hazmet team?
curtilingus @ 24:
Please tell this story to the parents loosing their kids to your character building excercise, oh and to the people ending up with permanent facial scars.
Nothing like a little extra mercury for developing young nervous systems, in any case! You can request mercury free vaccines, but they cost a little more. I wouldn't want my immune response perpetually diddled for the remainder of my life, but I had little choice as a child.
Thank you Mark Richards for your information. If I had small children now I don't know what I would do about vaccinating them. Vaccinations were scary 20 years ago, now they are even worse!! I firmly believe that the vaccines are responsible for autism one way or another. It's a mothers instincts. And I cannot believe anyone here is even thinking about trusting the pharma industry to do the right thing when all they care about are profits?
Peter G @ 30:
McExplain writes back:
Well, my friend, it's not really the bladder; it's the stomach, and not just the stomach, but the heart, liver, lungs and other ingredients that make up a haggis, my friend. And my friend, it's not really the haggis, my friend, but the haggis is the precursor that requires the imbibing of large quantities, my friend, of Orkney Skullsplitter. It's not unusual, my friend, for the ground, my friend, to move violently upwards within one to two hours as a common conclusion, my friend, to the process, my friend, and unconsciousness often ensues shortly thereafter, my friend. My friend, I thought everyone knew this...my friend.
Dutch Delight @ 64:
Losing their kids to chicken pox? How many a year is that? In the USA? It's hardly that fatal....And I've got a few of those facial scars- most people I know well enough to have looked closely at have had those scars, too. Barely noticeable.
Or were we talking about the filoviruses?
Dutch Delight @ 64:
Perhaps nature designed this and other diseases as a way of controlling a population explosion........like the one we are experiencing. Living on a planet that is 70% water means the population can only get so big. Disease is supposed to kill off the weak. Playing God has caused more damn problems and different diseases and birth defects than what it has cured. Take the flu shot. Everyone I know that gets it, is sicker than I am every year.
Proud2bHumble @ 67:
I really hope that you get a page for the McCain names that you can link to. I don't think the site will dig it much when you go all crazy with bandwidth concerns when you paste the entire list here. But it'll be a link worth following! ; )
SWoods @ 66:
probably because some posting are paid to troll for pharmica
But remember "my friends", a vote for me is a vote for a McBiologist!!
Fanon @ 63:
Doctor's Offices and medical labs treat it as HazardousMaterials just read the MSDS on thimerosal
Peter G @ 61:
I like to mix them together in my hash
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browns...
You could use the fiber, by the way, champ. ;-}
Radically Moderate @ 58:
CORRECTION
It's PRESERVATIVE use in childhood vaccines has been dropped but it is still left over from the manufacturing.
It hasnt been completely removed
hadenuf @ 62:
and lead
and absetos
ConcernedCanuck @ 72:
Or is he, in this case, your friendly McPharmacist, consulting you on contraindicators?
And what ever became of McAbel? Just askin...
If intelligent people on here want to believe in science - then you have to look at the data. The thimerosal research has not shown any correlation to autism. This may change but for now it shows no connection. If you're also going to say climate change is happening because of the data - then the same standards need to be kept for this kind of research. You simply cannot cherry-pick scientific data - and McCain is wrong on this issue. He's not talking science. Carl Sagan has been truly missed these past 8 years...
Andy K @ 70:
I emailed John re that very concern last week, but I'm starting to think he may have missed it, so I'll try again. Right now I'm posting is late at nite on the Open Thread on Mondays and Thursdays so it's pretty much out of the way and posting links in to it in other threads. That reminds me...
chewbacca @ 73:
Thimerosal hasn't been in childhood vaccines since 1999. The MSDS is for thimerosal, not the vaccination that may have included thim