60 Minutes: The Pentagon's Ray Gun
By Nicole Belle Monday Mar 03, 2008 11:02am
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What if we had a weapon that could control, subdue and or disperse crowds without causing death or permanent harm? Well, according to David Martin and 60 Minutes, the Pentagon would be wary about using it in a combat arena like Iraq in favor of traditional (and lethal) methods. But we have such a weapon, one that the Pentagon has no problem demonstrating its use on groups like peace protesters. Hmmm....what are we supposed to take away from that?
Pentagon officials call it a major breakthrough which could change the rules of war and save huge numbers of lives in Iraq. But it's still not there. That because in the middle of a war, the military just can't bring itself to trust a weapon that doesn't kill.
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Phasers! set to stun.. err kill... err... heat
THAT REPORT WAS PURE BS.
THE MILITARY HAS BEEN USING THIS WEAPON ON IRAQIS FOR AT LEAST 2 YEARS. DOCTORS WERE SEEING PEOPLE BROUGHT IN WITH BURNS TO THEIR SKIN BUT NOT TO THEIR CLOTHES.....ENTIRE FAMILIES WERE COOKED INSIDE THEIR CARS.
THIS IS A PORTABLE DIRECTIONAL MICROWAVE OVEN.
OH AND WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY GET A LARGE ONE LIKE THIS ON A SATELLITE? THE MILITARY COULD WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE TOWN/CITY
Fascist police state, that's what I think.
I heard of these things. Be interesting if we can miniturize them into portable ray guns, but until then, we're stuck with the NRA.
The question is, "To kill or not to kill?"
the Pentagon has no problem demonstrating its use on groups like peace protesters
Those are soldiers dressed up like peace protesters. I think the "Bush/Cheney 08" signs were being used elsewhere on the base... (iow, I don't think this weapon has actually been used in real life yet.)
I saw this on Sunday and was appalled.
Why are the mock targets anti-war protesters??
pretty pathetic, used to be they would at least vilify people other than fellow countrymen , for mock battles.
So they just showed us how they can use this in the National Guard in say, Seattle, but they claim its for use in combat situation.
cant wait til Jan 09'
Joe Marasmus @ 3:
How many times have you used a gun to defend yourself?
Just curious.
So when we have 2 groups of demonstators facing off against each other, which group will be zapped? The side that agrees with the current administration or the side that opposes it? This looks like a potentially serious threat to free speech.
So the military is basically afraid of it's own people is the moral of this story. The weapon won't be used in REAL battles, but when it comes to protesters/crowd control it's ok. So when does the US military officially take over complete control of the US in the form of a advertised coup?
A weapon like this is a clear infringement of our Constitutional rights to peacefully assemble for a redress of our grievances. It is unconstitutional. Period.
But you won't see any member of Congress saying so. Whether Democrats or Republicans. Because they are ALL treasonous, traitorous snakes.
I would also believe a weapon like that would be barred from use internationally. There MUST be some international treaty we are still a signatory to that would deal with a weapon like this...the Geneva Conventions perhaps? Or did Bush remove us from it too?
God help us.
Land of the free. At least until you become a nuisance to the crooks at the top.
The military just announced that peaceful protest is actionable by the military - but is this new? Remember kent state? Its not new. How better to fill their new role - now that posse comitatus is gone?
There are groups that will be safe from this - terrorists, chinese divisions, russian special forces etc. It will never be used on them.
Not even democrats are going to complain about this.
What would happen if Bush suspended elections? How would he keep people OUT of the streets?
Welcome to the new state.
Obama Supporters Complain That Pentagon Ray Gun Can’t Stop Hillary
It's comin' down, folks. Just a matter of time... they'll be subdueing the citizens and incarcerating people at an ever faster rate. It's appalling to know that the prisons are filling up faster all the time... and for what? Even speaking against those in power... Pathetic!
Cat Atomic @ 11:
You said it! Thanks!!!
Nice subtle reinforcement that war protesters and peace advocates gathering in a peaceful manner are fair targets of a government gone mad. Why on earth would peace protesters need to be dispersed with any form of weapon?
Why peace protesters? Why is the fake crowd not made up of people carrying signs saying "Bomb Iran", or "Kill innocent people", or "Nuke poor brown people", "Tranfer public wealth to corporate shareholders for free" or "I support war for war's sake and the consequences be damned", or "terrorists hate freedom" or "Our foreign policy should be more agressive"?
What struck me was the fact that peace protesters represented the 'enemy' in the demonstration. The signs were written in English and the protesters spoke English. Combine that with the fact the soldiers were only too happy to portray these 'targets'. Are we to expect this device to be used on Americans exercising their right to peacefully protest? Is the military conditioning it's soldiers to look upon fellow Americans as the enemy?
Talkin' bout ur' ray gun baby!
War millionaires washing there hands.
I have my reflective shield. Get yours ready...LMAO!!!
hedge @ 16:
You're asking the questions we all want answers to... good job! Why peace protesters is right!
Like the Merkava, this too will become a coffin.
it means welcome to the police state.
dissent will not be tolerated.
In Dune they banned Lazguns because they could be used against the user, shouldn't our military know more than scifi writers of the 60-70 and 80's?
I had first heard of this "weapon" as a crowd control tool, last year. But the article had a warning that if aimed at someone with metal on them that the microwaves backfired. Nice weapon Baron Harkonnen Bush!
I heard about this awhile ago - they are calling it a ray gun but it really is just a controlled microwave beam - and it can be lethal if the target can't escape it - it would cook you from the inside out.
But for all you "Tin Foil" hatters out there - take the foil off your heads, flatten it out, glue it to a poster board and stand behind it - not only will it totally stop the waves from getting to you, if your foil is flat enough it will bounce the beam back to your attacker if you are close enough.
Great weapon, can be defeated by the cleaver use of shiny metal objects.
Also, there is no doubt that this weapon was developed as a crowd controller, there needs to be legislation to restrict use to foreigners in foreign countries and should never be used in USA on American people - NEVER.
Shields Up!
Remember how the Eloi were controlled in H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine"? I think I'd rather be shot.
Disperse domestic protesters and you control the message completely. GIs don't like using deadly force on fellow Americans. Good for martial law. This weapon should be easily disabled.
The cops had something that looked exactly like the picture set up during the 2004 RNC demonstrations on 8th Ave between 28th St and 23rd St. They didn't use them but there were there and pointed at the crowds.
Wouldn't a mirror deflect the offending beam away?
LOL oh man when is the Government going to wake up and realize all people want is a decent life!
60 minutes is a year late on this story. This demonstration is stupid. Note that no one is armed and they are completely exposed. One RPG from a building or a vehicle could take it out. But it is more useful for an unarmed demostration, especially one with a controlled, predetermined route.
This device has cost ummm... $20 million if I remember correctly to deveop, but last year the talk was of deployment in 2010.
I don;t know what the unit cost of the system itself is but I'd guess it's in the 100's of thousands.
And I may be wrong but that didn't look like 1/2 mile to me though its hard to tell.
The branding.. Wait for it! the Ronald Raygun..
They call this a non-lethal weapon but they have said that about many so called non-lethal weapons in the past. I can see many instances where death or serious injury could occur. One example could be if a protester had a medical condition that when hit with that beam caused a cardiac arrest. Another thought, what exactly happens if that beam doesn't just hit the skin and hits the eyes instead? My speculation is that protester who was hit by the beam in the eyes is now permanently blinded.
On another track, I can already see people countering this new weapon system down the road. Especially if they know before hand that it will be in use. A light or heat reflecting shield or type of attire might be worn to deflect the beam back to its source or reflect it onto advancing police or military units.
I'm looking forward to feeling the effects of this weapon when the Republicans come to St. Paul this summer. Today is the first day when protest groups are allowed to register to protest in the tiny parade route, hidden behind the dumpsters out back of the CostCo.
Is it truly freedom if you have to register, and can only protest in a meaningless location where nobody can see you?
Keep your hands off of our pie
Zap!
Golly gee, I wonder why our nice government is beginning to make weapons to be used against us? What are they afraid of/planning for?
Oh, the signs say it all. "Love For All"
Yes, that's a sign I've seen at many a protest. And if someone does believe in "Love For All" then by all means, let's cook them with microwaves.
When Free Speech is repealed, we'll be seeing a lot of these gizmos on our streets
The intentions for this weapon are foreign AND DOMESTIC!!!!
Why do those in power feel the need to supress all forms of dissent? Is it because they know what they're doing is sure to cause it?
And the thing is, the 60 Minutes people thought that the weapon was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not one word of doubt about it. They just wondered why it wasn't being used already.
hedge @ 16:
I think that using peace demonstrators as adversaries is appalling. Nevertheless, I recall that they weren't so peaceful. They were throwing rocks, etc., and were an unruly crowd. Besides, I'd rather be zapped with a heat gun than rubber bullets, real bullets, or a firehose.
$13.1 million for this thing is "chump change"? Give me half that and I'll wire together a bunch of RadaRanges to zap them dirty effin' hippies.
hardrain77 @ 35:
see
opressionidential order 51 and the FEMA charter for your answer. Also the PNAC manifesto is a great reference.The article says that this is being delayed in deploying to Iraq.
Does that have anything to do with the fact that THEY ARE ATTACKING PEACE PROTESTERS AS A TEST?
Make no mistake. This has no use against a vehicle at a check point. Look for yourself and you will see that the mechanism can't move fast enough to target anything that isn't a pedestrian. THERE ARE NO LARGE AMOUNT OF PEDESTRIANS ATTACKING US IN IRAQ.
This is for use against YOUR MOTHER. YOUR DAUGHTER.
Or didn't you hear the point in the report where they say that anyone who resists this ray can be assumed to be "intending" to do them harm, (and therefore will be shot).
They even make the claim that this allows them to see into the hearts of people and know their intentions. (like Bush did with Putin?)
CoIntelPro @ 37:
Agreed. That is the intention. I was also thinking that this new weapon may pose a serious draw back which will be more than the merely obvious. With this new weapon in use a peaceful protest could very well turn into a full scale, violent riot pretty quick and it will be this weapon that caused it.
Rob @ 38:
Well, the average earnings of the du Ponts for the period 1910 to 1914 were $6,000,000 a year. It wasn't much, but the du Ponts managed to get along on it. Now let's look at their average yearly profit during the war years, 1914 to 1918. Fifty-eight million dollars a year profit we find! Nearly ten times that of normal times, and the profits of normal times were pretty good. An increase in profits of more than 950 per cent.
Now we need to invent some kind of Large Portable Mirror that can reflect this beam back at the sender.
The reason this is designed for crowd control is exactly the weakness that has been pointed out. It is easily thwarted by a determined attacker wearing a tinfoil suit. Or a metal assault vehicle. It's not an alternative combat weapon nor was it designed to be.
But logic says that if you're on guard duty in a hostile environment and a group of people are converging on the gate to your forward operating base, the microwave blast disperses the crowd. The guy that doesn't disperse because he's shielded is the one that is an actual threat. That's the guy that gets to be on the receiving end of the reality of the phrase "Deadly Force is Authorized."
Properly employed, this will save the lives of servicemembers and innocent protesters alike, reducing the probability that a problem of targets in a crowd of innocents is solved by the wide dispersal of bullets or that a suicide bomber reaches the gates because a young guard was unwilling to fire into a crowd.
I'd rather be microwaved than shot, personally.
Rusty Shackleford you can't even repair your own Zippo.
Stop frontin'
LORIS JAKES @ 24:
Fine! Then I suggest that Penguin missiles only be used on ships with American crew members/ passengers. How do you like them apples?
So what makes one think that this will not be used against our own citizens who protest a criminal government?
ConcernedCanuck @ 9:
The message is clear, the military is threatened by Peace. Peace and Love is our enemy.
Yeah, this thing has "mission creep" written all over it. That's the problem with non-lethal weapons. They're actually more prone to abuse than lethal weapons. Look at the recent wave of Tazer abuse. This thing is just a ginormous Tazer.
Yeah, I commented on this one in the other 60 Minutes thread. It was a real propaganda piece, or at least, naive. It seems the reporter (Pelley?) consistently believes whatever he's told by authority figures. Despite the way the test "crowd" was outfitted, he never once asked if it would be used on protesters in the States, or what controls would be in place to prevent that. Nor was the effect of the ray on contact lens wearers - potentially fusing the lens to the cornea - ever discussed that I recall. Meanwhile, the idea that that would "solved" Fallujah is questionable. A crowd control weapon's usefulness against IEDs, rockets, and in searching houses door to door ain't exactly clear. As for funding, the military has more than enough cash to use to develop this if they wanted to.
Its meant for us.
Nothing like a boot on your neck to make you feel safe.
DON'T TREAD ON ME
Albatross @ 33:
Ah yes, the Orwellian "Free Speech Zones."
"What rights have you lost?" they say.
PHread01 just gave up his rights as an American.
Anyone else want to disappoint the Founding Fathers?
anyone?
the man @ 49:
*lowers head in shame*
Yeah, this is totally going to be abused by those in power. But there is no way to stop technology, if it can be done, it'll be done. So done waste energy bemoaning how to stop it. Better to figure out how to use it to our advantage or figure out out to nullify it.
I mean, if it causes no damage, seems to me some protesters could cause a lot of havoc if they got their hands on one of these.
I remember hearing about a crowd-control device the government had supposedly been working on the
60s. This device could allegedly generate a low-frequency sound 'beam' at, of course, peaceful demonstrators,
the frequency supposedly being the resonant frequency of one's anal sphincter, and if it worked, it
would cause the said peaceful demonstrators to shit themselves, and thus break up the otherwise peaceful
demonstration.
I think they must've tried it on Cheney, Rummy, Condi and the preznit, because they are always shoveling out loads
of some kind of manure all the time.
I know a better way to subdue war protesters: End the war. But then, if they did this, I'd be stunned.
If we left Iraq we would have to worry about it.
Their concern is there will be a whole continent full of bankrupt, re-poed, and idle former WalMart shoppers, many of them with half of their skin tattooed and many of that bunch all revved up to "roll heavy and gun up" against the folks who screwed them.
Arm Ray Guns!
Ready!
Aim!
FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dale @ 61:
That is one way. Another is to arrest the criminal Bush regime and hold it accountable. Well, maybe not. The people then would turn into a lynch mob with pitch forks and torches.
Just cross your fingers the Bush Administration never invents a ray gun that turns people into crude oil.
Ed in Socal @ 40:
That was a pack of lies spewed by the media. The police have been initiating violence as a policy since 1968 Dem Convention. Citizen footage as caught police plants hidden among the demonstrators initiating incidents which were then blamed on demonstrators. Routinely in the USA, demonstrating organization work with police to plan logistics of demonstrations. There reward for trying to be peaceful was to have the media demonize the demonstrators or trivialize the cause for the demonstration and even to underestimate the numbers. And any violence is ALWAYS blamed on the demonstrators and is permanently linked to the reasons why there were demonstraqtions in the first place.
At the last repug convention in NYC, after people accepted being herded into 'protest zones' the police still instigated violence against citizens and arrested close to 3,000 and held some for as long as two weeks.
Don't start that "everyone has a part in this" garbage. you live in a police state. Denial and ignorance can cost you your life. The evidence is right in front of you.
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"... as long as it's used properly..."
... On antiwar protesters?
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It's scary indeed, but when you have soldiers coming back from Iraq feeling completely disenfranchised and helpless, not even they can still buy into the bullshit. They're losing and they know it, and now they're going to have to pay the price, but they'll go out trying to stoke the fire as much as possible. Totalitarian rule isn't so easy when you can no longer control the disinformation, that's why Internet neutrality is so important.
Make your signs big enough to crouch behind and cover the backs with foil, and your good. Model them after those Spartan shields.
Joe O. @ 45:
The crowd of people writhing on the ground in pain will be assumed to be resisting a justified, "authorized", proscribed police procedure. then they can be shot.
I think they are planning to deploy the weapon on election day.
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This was intended as a slick propaganda piece.
War is good, antiwar protesters are bad.
Ray guns don't kill... if used properly and Antiwar protesters throwing rocks are a danger to armed troops.
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Max-1 @ 67:
on ANY group of people
Personal Ray Guns with MP-3 Player. 3 Designer Colors.
This weapon will not be available for deployment in Iraq until the Whitehouse RayGun Perimeter Fence is completed. And of course they need a few hundred for the Fortress of Cheney.
Bangkok Bob @ 47:
Or take the mirror sunglasses off the cops and use them against themselves!
The military also has an acoustic weapon, that blasts crowds with sound waves. I guess weapons trump dialog and diplomacy, eh? I mean all protesters want to do is stage violent coups, right? They're not trying to bring injustices to light to be discussed, they want anarchy to reign, right?!
The video says it best: (paraphrasing) "It's a catch-22. You can't get it fully funded until it's field-tested, and you can't field test it until it's fully funded".
Well, I can see it coming. It will be field-tested, right here at home, in crowd-control environments, i.e. on protestors. The excuse will be that the crowd seemed to be getting a little unruly, and so, you know, we just had to use it for their own good, dontcha see?
Freekin' Jeebus, this is scary. But it's the government that's getting out of hand, not the protestors. And I can see another thing coming -- sooner or later somebody will take one of those ADS trucks out by using an RPG (or something similar), and then what've you got left to defend the troops? Why, BULLETS, of course! For your own good, of course.
I've only got a few years left until retirement age. I'm seriously considering leaving this country at that time.
Metal-meshed cloths = Faraday cage = blocked EM energy = obsolete ray weapon.
It took about 3 seconds to figure out a counter to this weapon. Next!
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We wouldn't have bombed Fallujah with phosphorus... had we had this ADS?
REALLY?
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Are large crowd of protesters the biggest problem we have in Iraq?
In the meantime bring your microwave popcorn to your next protest as a handy snack. It will also serve as a canary.
kulshan @ 8:
5 years 2 months and a day.... does that count as an answer???
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WHAT...?
No mention of it's "OTHER" effects when not used properly?
If used on a large crowd and people fall and get trampled, or are wounded and can not move fast enough, what happens to them...
... NOTHING?
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I think musharraf would have loved to have a weapon like this.
Israel could cook those pesky Palestinians from across the wall.
China can make 'protester' eggrolls.
Putin would not need poison.
ETC............
60 minutes was talking about using it on insurgents, but it showed peace activists?
redratio1 @ 76:
Perfume!
redratio1 @ 76:
patent it!
I'm ordering 10 now for my family.
E_I @ 82:
peace activists = domestic insurgents
"Besides, I’d rather be zapped with a heat gun than rubber bullets, real bullets, or a firehose."
You're missing he point. The TASER was developed to replace shooting people with bullets. I'd rather be tased, bro, than shot. But notice what happened - instead of merely replacing guns when possible and thereby saving lives as it was first advertised, the TASER is now used when a gun would NOT have been used. Because it's "safe."
End result is it ESCALATED the amount of violence instead of reducing it. People are now being tased that would not even have been hit with a billy club in the past.
This thing will end up being used when rubber bullets would NOT have been used. When it would look too bad on the news to see peaceful protesters being shot with rubber bullets or hosed down, it will look nice and clean.
No fuss, no muss... it just looks like the protesters "changed their minds" and turned and left. And its safe! You couldnt even see anything! Gosh, it should be used against those nasty evil Critical Mass cyclists to "safely" make them change their minds and go home so I can get to Starbucks faster!
This was clearly a staged warning. When The Thugs cancel elections and protests erupt,You have Been Warned.
good counter with the farady cage.
I'm concerned about the Time, Dose, Fractionation equations, and Radiobiological aspects at the cellular level (how many rads, roentgens,or watts=tissuedamage or mutation)
anyway, for all you citizens really curious about the ADS and other programs, go to
https://www.jnlwp.com/public_affairs/fact_sheets.asp .
Aack, Aaack-aack!
While this version isn't portable (yet), the movie Mars Attacks! provides some examples of what this weapon is capable of.
In the 60 Minutes segment, do you recall that they repeatedly mentioned "half a mile" for every demonstration? Well, electromagnetic energy diminishes exponentially by distance from its source.
At close range, this weapon will cook you!
If the military has this weapon, it's a pretty safe bet Blackwater does too. Think about that for a minute.
You’re missing he point. The TASER was developed to replace shooting people with bullets. I’d rather be tased, bro, than shot.
I tased a man in Reno, just to watch him fry.
this was about economics...you could probably make 20 of these gizmos for the price of an Abrams M1 tank (not including the enormous amount of gas or shells that a tank requires)...where is the profit for the military industrial complex in that???
I found it peculiar that as their victims they chose anti-war placards instead of something like: pro-war placards, or pro-lifers(like the ones that murder and bomb health care workers and buildings). Just like the tazers there are cases of death or injury. But it sure would be nice to have a war where people are not killed but forcibly persuaded to go home and not fight. Have a war and nobody shows up-what a concept!!
Just what bush needs to stay in power. If anybody thinks that a general election is going to take place better think again. Cheny won't give up his power and neither will the oil companies, period.
It ain't gonna be pretty folks.
Live free or Die!!!!
Impeach cheney and bush @ 93:
Yes I thought fair and balanced was the new mantra.
Rob @ 18:
In answer to your last question...yes, apparently so.
So much for free speech. How long before they deploy this in the US? Surprised Dubya doesn't have a few with him wherever he goes...
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The United Nations has already declared tasers, weapons of torture.
10 to 1 they'll include the ADS soon too.
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