Countdown: Dean Will Not Bend Delegate Rules For Michigan & Florida
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Mar 05, 2008 8:37am
NBC political analyst Chuck Todd appeared on Countdown Wednesday to talk about Democratic primary race and the situation with Michigan and Florida delegates. The Clinton campaign has been pushing for both states delegates to be seated and Senator Obama says he's played by the rules and will continue to do so. Keith Olbermann reads a statement from DNC chair, Howard Dean, who is finally making the call -- the rules will not be bent:
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"We're glad to hear that the Governors of Michigan and Florida are willing to lend their weight to help resolve this issue. As we've said all along, we strongly encourage the Michigan and Florida state parties to follow the rules, so today's public overtures are good news. The rules, which were agreed to by the full DNC including representatives from Florida and Michigan over 18 months ago, allow for two options. First, either state can choose to resubmit a plan and run a party process to select delegates to the convention; second, they can wait until this summer and appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee, which determines and resolves any outstanding questions about the seating of delegates. We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time. The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game.
"Through all the speculation, we should also remember the overwhelming enthusiasm and turnout that we have already seen, and respect the voters of the ten states who have yet to have their say.
"As we head towards November, our nominee must have the united support of a strong Democratic Party that's ready to fight and ready to beat John McCain. After seven years of Republican rule, I am confident that we will elect a Democratic president who will fight for America's families in the White House. Now we must hear from the voters in twelve states and territories who have yet to make their voices heard."
Dean is expected to make the rounds on the morning shows today to make this announcement. Voters from both Michigan and Florida want to have their votes counted. Let's hope both states can come up with a workable resolution with the DNC. The candidates need to know what the expectations are so the party can move forward with the primary process and on to the White House.
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FOIST!!!
Come on Dems!!! RALLY! RALLY!!
Don't fuck it up now!!!
Obama's mom hates freedom.
[Deleted. You need to pay if you want to blatantly advertise-Sitemonitor]
I tell you, you can't change the rules once the race has begun. They were warned and did not heed the warning. Granholm is a Clinton supporter so, of course, she wants to seat the delegates the Hillary obtained with Barack Obama NOT EVEN ON THE BALLOT! How fair is that?! And, it's more than a little suspicious that a republican governor (Christ) wants to seat Fl delegates in the Democratic convention. Of course republicans want Clinton as the nominee. All of their oppo research and smear campaigns have been geared toward her for years and they don't want all of that work to go to waste. They don't have much on Obama and he has about the smallest negatives of any of those running. Sheesh, it's not rocket science.
[deleted - over the top. take it down a notch.]
I live in Florida and just for the record, our voting date was moved up by the majority republicans in Tallahassee. As a result, the repubs lost half their delegates and the dems lost all theirs. At this point I think we either re-vote or let things stand as they are. Hillary was down here for "fund raisers". None of the other democratic candidates were here at all. She came the closest to breaking the rules yet she is fighting the hardest to change them now.
I'm in Michigan and I'm pissed. Our county party petitioned for a change from that early date and we asked for a caucus. We all wondered what the game was, especially when Hillary didn't take her name off. It was this game playing that has be swayed my vote to Obama now.
In that primary we were told out votes didn't count. Many stayed home, many tried to think of ways to get their votes to Obama without going undecided, perhaps through Denis K or Chris D (but he dripped out), some recommended voting Republican to mess with them... how was this a true vote representation? Either we don't get counted or we do it over and do it right. This has left a very sour taste in MY mouth.
That statement was meant for Hillary cause she's the one who wants the Michigan and Florida delegates seated, even though they broke the rules and held their primaries when they weren't supposed to.
Play by the rules and charge it to the game since you're losing, Borg Queen. You can't get to the 4th quarter and decide to move the goalpost because you're losing and continuing to lose to Obama.
That net gain of 4 delegates was a big push. /snark
Things should stay as they are. NONE of the delegates should be seated.
They knew the rules when they moved their date. They should live with the consequences.
It's either too early or I'm too pissed to edit carefully the first time. ;) Corrections in bold. (Apologies to Chris Dodd... he doesn't drip.)
tunnelbrat @ 6:
ouch... too early in the morning to edit i guess.
There was too much fishy business going on. They should do as Dean says. The process becomes corrupted, otherwise.
I think that the votes should be counted, but it's not fair to let them be counted as they are now. The Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign in those two states (except for Hillary, who perhaps saw this mess coming). The fact that she campaigned there was a sleazy but crafty move on her part. FL and MI should do a caucus or something, a do-over! Then again, that just costs more money for both campaigns, while McCain focuses his funding on the big prize.
pissed off patricia @ 5:
And, over the weekend, Gov. Crist "misspoke" when he said he was all for a re-vote. Once the DNC told Crist that we taxpayers in FL would have to foot the bill, he balked.
I'm wondering if the state rethugs were in cahoots with the RNC when they voted to move up our primary date. If so, the DNC proved what suckers they are for deciding to disallow ALL delegates while the rethugs counted 1/2 of their delegates.
It's complete garbage to ask for those delegates to be counted. If the parties from those states truly wanted their votes to matter, they'd have followed the rules.
I will vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, but she's making me feel less and less that I want to. This week when she said she brings a lifetime of experience to the table, John McCain brings a lifetime of experience to the table, and Obama brings a speech he made in 2002 to the table, it was just awful. So what, is she endorsing John McCain?
I'm starting to believe her scruples aren't a whole lot better than the republicans that are in office now.
FastMovingCloud @ 4:
You know my BIG problem with all of this crap? I, as a resident of Florida, have been manipulated again into a situation where my vote has either been negated, dismissed or just not counted. Virtually every election in Florida since 2000 has been fraudulent somewhere in the state, and usually over most of the state.
And here we go again. I don't care if Dems or Repugs did it, the fact is this: all the politicians think our votes are commodities for them to manipulate and I am sick of it.
I don't care which party engineered this, it's bullshit. And that line about, "They knew the party rules"? Excuse the fuck outta me, but does the party serve the public or the other way around? Nobody asked me, the voter, what I wanted here. My choice was to vote or not to vote. And if a state chooses to hold primaries when they choose, who the hell are a few die-hard members of the DNC, DLC, RNC, RSCC- whatever - to say our votes shouldn't count? They are political bodies, not legislative, not judicial, how can they argue that their rights to make rules of expediency that benefit their momentary political machinations supsercede my right to have my vote count - as long as my state holds the election in conformance with election law?
As long as the elections are held in compliance with election law - not party rules - the parties should submit to the law and count the votes. Period.
randy @ 13:
The dems in Tallahassee were outnumbered by the repubs and the repubs decided the date we would vote. By moving the date up, the repubs knew what would happen to the dems delegates. There wasn't a hell of a lot the dems could do about it.
roooth @ 15:
And here we go again. I don't care if Dems or Repugs did it, the fact is this: all the politicians think our votes are commodities for them to manipulate and I am sick of it.
That my friend may be the quote of the year...
pissed off patricia @ 14:
As Rachel Maddow said on "Countdown" the other night -- Hillary's comment was made by someone who was campaigning to be McCrazy's VP choice.
Why don't we hold new 2000 and 2004 elections while we're at it? Or get the Supreme Court to step in and make the decision about who the Democratic candidate will be?
There is now no WAY to hold new caucuses or primaries in Michigan and Florida so they'll turn out as they would have if they hadn't moved up the dates and disqualified their citizens' votes. IN the event of "new" caucuses/primaries, will they include ALL the candidates on the ballots who were running at the time? John Edwards could get a few more delegates, I dare say.
I know that Hillary did do some fundraising in Fla. but it must also be said that Obama bought TV ads to run nationally at the time and they ran in Fla. He says he had no control over that. I call BS on that. It could also be said that Obama has lower negatives but that could be because he is a neophyte and so far, everyone has refused to ask him any questions until just the other day and he blundered his way through them and left abruptly. This man is a politician - he does not have angel wings under that suit.
None of the Democratic candidates, except possibly Hillary made competitive efforts in these states since they were officially discounted from the primary process. For anyone to now turn around and say the few votes cast are legitimate toward selection of our next Democratic candidate is unfair to all Americans.
What were the original dates for the FL and MI primaries? Is it to late to allow those now go forward? Or reschedule so all (both) candidates have equal opportunity.
As long as the elections are held in compliance with election law - not party rules - the parties should submit to the law and count the votes. Period.
Ummm . . . horseshit.
Unfortunately for you, primaries are held by the respective parties (that's why they follow different rules, for example - with the Republican contests often being winner take all and the Dem ones usually allotted proportionally). If a state knowingly violates these rules and is told what the consequences will be and holds the election anyway (without the candidates campaigning in the state and the voters told repeatedly that their votes won't count), then no - those votes do not count. Sorry. Elect better representatives, or seek to change the system itself (which I readily admit is far from democratic - look at the superdelegates, for example).
But don't seek to change the RULES in the middle of the game because your candidate is losing. That's a real republican-type move.
Dr. Acula @ 18:
It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he and she did something like that. God, what a mess that would be. Rush would explode and make even a bigger mess.
Oh, and there's this:
Crist told CNN's "Late Edition" on Sunday that he supported holding another primary to resolve the dispute. But Wednesday, he said the state would not pay for a second contest.
The Florida Democratic Party estimates that a new primary could cost as much as $18 million -- and Sen. Bill Nelson said the DNC should pick up the tab.
"There's no way the state legislature is going to fund another election when they are in economic cardiac arrest right now," said Nelson, a Florida Democrat. "They are cutting payments to health care, education, social services and payments to the cities and counties.
"There's no way that they're going find an additional $18 million to fund another election, nor should they. This shouldn't be the burden of the taxpayers of Florida -- this should be the burden of the Democratic National Committee."
Party officials have said they will not pay for Florida to hold a new primary because they warned the state not to move up its primary.
"The Democratic nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules," Dean said. But he emphasized that his goal was to maintain party unity, and called the statement by Crist and Granholm "good news."
"We look forward to receiving their proposals, should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans, and will review those plans at that time," he said.
But Nelson said the party's stance was unfair, since it was Republican lawmakers in Tallahassee and a Republican governor, Crist, who decided to move up the state's primary over the opposition of Democrats.
And if the state's decision to move the primary remains controversial, it pales in comparison to a bill two Florida state senators are discussing. Sen. Nan Rich, a Clinton backer, is proposing that the state remove the party's eventual presidential nominee from the state's ballot unless it seats Florida's delegates.
I think it's up to the states to run their own primary, which they did even after the DNC said it would count, but they voted anyway just in case that they would count.. The canidates knew this was going on and they were on TV all this time and Florida and Michigan were watching... Obama was running national ads that were running in Florida, this was not accidental... The will of the people in those states has been spoken and they should be accepted by the DNC and the canidates and the people in other states have no authority to overturn the will of the people in Florida and Michigan... There was an extra high turn-out in both states which shows they took it serious at the time...
Unfortunately Rachael Maddow and Keith Olberman, two people I've admired so much, have fallen into line at MSNBC and now have their lips planted firmly on Obama's backside so I take anything they say now with a grain of salt.
The spin that Clinton was "endorsing" McCain is ludicrous. She made a statement of fact. McCain is perceived by many thanks to the spin on TV of being a maverick, a moderate and with a lifetime of experience. That is a true statement. Obama will have a tougher time against him in Nov. than Hillary IMHO.
One reason so many dems voted down here was there was an issue on the ballot whether or not to raise homestead exemption from 25 thousand to 50 thousand. A lot of Floridians wanted that to pass. I was not one of them.
Rules schmules, anything to win. Principles are for high schools.
pissed off patricia @ 14:
One thing the Clintons share with the Bushes is an acute understanding that winner takes all in our elections. And they will do what has to be done to win. Otherwise, why bother? I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying.
Last night I was watching Tweety and Timmuh, and the other increasingly irrelevant talking heads, actually saying that it will come back to haunt Hillary that she inferred McCain was more prepared than Obama.
How, they asked, could she argue for either him as her VP or her as his when she has said this? And I'm thinking, here we go again, another episode of "Short Attention Span Theatre". They have all apparently forgotten and therefore missed the obscene irony of Bush welcoming McCain to the White House and giving McCain his support.
Have they all forgotten the things Bush said and did to McCain in 2000? Now it's all sunny endorsements and whether or not McCain sould align himself with the floundering Bush. No note of the ugly slander of 2000's Rovian anti-McCain attacks. No mention of McCain's half-black love child or his wife's drug and alcohol problems. Slander worked, Bush won. McCain read the writing on the wall, swallowed his pride, left his family honor twisting in the wind and sucked up to Bush. In return, now it's all about how wonderful a president McCain will be. And no one in the media will rehash the ugliness used to stop McCain. Only winning mattered.
That's politics, and the Clinton's get it. And so does Obama. You don't learn sucessful grass-roots community organizing, as Obama did, without learning how to win the battles you need to win and keep working with the people who were trashing you yesterday.
It's only media chaff to fill airspace.
Bluesage
The ludicrous thing is that McCain has more Washington beltway "experience" than Hillary herself, so on the basis of "experience", he wins over Clinton.
VegasDem @ 11:
Get your facts staight...Hillary did NOT campaign in Florida or Michigan. Yes, she
did attend a "thank you" rally AFTER the election and in fact Obama also was in
Florida BEFORE the Primary, but neither of them "campaigned" because the DNC
prohibited such...
pissed off patricia @ 5:
I live in FL too, but Obama did have ads running on national cable & Internet, I saw a few run of CNN.
The rule sales NO CAMPAIGNING. Private fundraisers are not part of the DNC FL rule.
FL is the 4th state with the highest population in the nation. HOW can it be that our votes don't count? It's true that the Republican-dominated state congress moved up the date and we FL voters got the backlash for it - FROM OUR OWN PARTY! I don't understand why we have to be punished for something we FL Democrats had no control over.
Charlie Crist has even sugessted to put 10M of state money to redo a Democratic primary again, at the suggestion of FL Democratic party. I say LET'S DO IT!
Anney@24
And if the state’s decision to move the primary remains controversial, it pales in comparison to a bill two Florida state senators are discussing. Sen. Nan Rich, a Clinton backer, is proposing that the state remove the party’s eventual presidential nominee from the state’s ballot unless it seats Florida’s delegates.
What????????? That's one of the most insane things I've ever heard. The FL State House is a lunatic assylum!
pissed off patricia @ 23:
It isn't really too far fetched. There is the Repub Party, the Dem Party, and the Clinton Party. They are very good friends with McCain, offer him endorsements over Obama, and admit that they wouldn't go dirty if they ran against him. 'Nuff said.
Bluesage @ 26:
I totally agree with you. She did not endorse McCain whatsoever. She just made the statement that in terms of experience, she has a better chance than Obama against McCain.
SM @ 35:
She snarkily endorsed him over her inexperienced rival, and yes that is exactly what Republican supporters would take from her little dig.
pissed off patricia @ 27:
I did not vote for that, now Charlie Crist announced that $350 million will be cut from school funding thanks to that law. It was a bait & switch.
Shana,
They bought their tickets.
They knew what there were getting into.
I say, let them crash
SM @ 35:
Yes, and she will probably stick to that speech for the rest of the campaign. Ironic, no?
SM @ 37:
Most of us knew the state was already in financial trouble but a lot of Florida homeowners allowed greed to overcome their good sense.
POP
Is it possible that people voted on the homestead exemption law but didn't vote for a Democratic presidential candidate at all because they thought it wouldn't matter anyway?
Is this FISA?
WASHINGTON (AP) - The FBI acknowledged Wednesday it improperly accessed Americans' telephone records, credit reports and Internet traffic in 2006, the fourth straight year of privacy abuses resulting from investigations aimed at tracking terrorists and spies.
The breach occurred before the FBI enacted broad new reforms in March 2007 to prevent future lapses, FBI Director Robert Mueller said. And it was caused, in part, by banks, telecommunication companies and other private businesses giving the FBI more personal client data than was requested.
Testifying at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mueller raised the issue of the FBI's controversial use of so-called national security letters in reference to an upcoming report on the topic by the Justice Department's inspector general.
An audit by the inspector general last year found the FBI demanded personal records without official authorization or otherwise collected more data than allowed in dozens of cases between 2003 and 2005. Additionally, last year's audit found that the FBI had underreported to Congress how many national security letters were requested by more than 4,600.
anney @ 41:
Sure, it's very possible. I did vote for a candidate, but I'm sure there might have been others who did not. If I recall, independents could only vote for the homestead exemption and they received a ballot with no candidates name on it.
Concerned Canuck - I respectfully disagree. Don't fall for all the spin and ask yourself why she would "endorse" McCrazy. She would not and did not. I'm not normally one who thinks conspiracy but it's getting really hard to understand why so many of the pundits seem to be doing Obama's bidding with their spin. Just like the race-baiting, much of which has come directly from the Obama camp and then the spinning starts and they have taken two people that no one has ever considered racist and made them racist. It's deplorable. And I have trouble understanding why 90% of black people are voting for Obama and yet no one speaks of that as a race issue. My heart was broken when John Lewis, another person I've always admired greatly, caved and changed his vote to Obama. Many of the black super delegates are saying that they have been badgered and threatened to get them to change their vote but this is not a story anyone seems to want to touch in spin world. I really hate all the division and much of this I lay at Obama's feet. His wife Michelle says many things that could be considered race-baiting but no one calls her on that either. There is a double standard here and it's wrong.
pissed off patricia @ 40:
Whoops, I misplaced my post.
This state is STILL a national laughing stock. It’s sad. The whole property tax reform issue was, IMHO, bullsh*t. During the heydey of rising real estate values here, municipalities were running HUGE budget surpluses. Where did all that money go??? Why is this state in such a fiscal mess? Could it be our former governor Jebbie?
I am a Michigan voter and I am pissed! Its not the voters fault the primary was moved up; its the govenors fault! So dock her a years pay but don't punish us for crying out loud............no it shouldn't be a given for Hillary either. Michigan of all places should have a say in this election; look what our federal government has done to our jobs just in the last 4 years? We have been punished for having a democrat in office and so have alot of workers here who are now out of jobs. You count all states and do it over so the whole population has a say.Thats what a free election is!
You don't have to be in Florida to campaingn in Florida, they don't live in caves... I live in Texas and I made up my mind long before the canidates got here...
ConcernedCanuck @ 36:
She did not! People are reading into this too much. It wasn't like she said that she'd vote for McCain if Obama was the candidate. She pointed out the truth.
McCain is definitely more experienced than Obama and that is one of the things Obama supporters have to eat bitterly. Obama is a toddler in pull-ups compared to McCain's military experience & 20+ years in the senate. At least Hillary can chip away at some of McCain's legacy with her experience and senatorial career somewhat.
Obama's strength is the ability to inspire the change needed in Washington. That's wonderful and great but when you throw that against a POW, military veteran with 20+ years in the US senate, it looks substantially weak.
Another thing is that Obama is more of a lover not a fighter. He fumbles and stumbles and falls apart when thrown difficult questions and controversy. Same with John Kerry, who mirrors McCain's experience, if not more, and look what they did to him! Kerry fumbled and stmbled with the Swift-Boat thing and should have been just as irate and angry as Hillary was when Obama's campaign put out the Harry & Louise part 2 ads in Ohio.
Hillary's pitting him against the wall for his experience, is NOTHING compared to what the Republicans have already started on him. I have do doubt in my mind that Hillary will rip John McCain apart and will be able to withstand and fight back anything they throw at her, kitchen sink, bathtub, china cabniets, whatever.
You Hillary haters are pathetic. If the situation was reversed you'd be yelling for the delegates to be seated and blaming it all on Hillary.
Rules or no rules, Mich and Fla held their primaries and the people voted. Not allowing their votes to count is another breach of confidence in our electorial system.
The DNC needs to find some other way to penalize the states and not the people.
Floridh proved worthless a long, long time ago. If we ignore them, maybe they'll just go away.
It isn't the people of Florida with the problem; it's the government of Florida that's totally invested in controlling the voters, even to the extent of committing voter fraud.
pissed off patricia @ 40:
I argued with my dad about this who voted yes on 1, I told him that the majority of people benefitting from the new law will enjoy it for a few years before they drop dead, yet FL students will have to live with the lifetime of an underfunded education, namely his grandchildren. He didn't care at all.
It will not go much farther, this is the latest news.
Clinton scrambles to freeze defectors
By: Mike Allen and Ben Smith
Mar 4, 2008 07:29 PM EST
A behind-the-scenes battle broke out late Tuesday over superdelegates who had secretly committed to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), with Clinton campaign officials scrambling to “freeze” them before they announced support for him.
The battle reflects the trench warfare that both campaigns expect if the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination stretches on to the Pennsylvania primary on April 22.
Democratic officials involved in the conversations said Obama was lining up a package of superdelegates — the party insiders whose votes help select the Democratic nominee — with plans to announce their support as a bloc.
Obama also plans to announce he raised more than $50 million in February, considerably more than Clinton’s $35 million.
The Obama theory was that the separate announcements would convey juggernaut-like momentum if Obama had big wins on Tuesday, and would help turn the page if he had a disappointing showing in the Texas or Ohio primaries.
But aides to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) became convinced by network exit polls and her own data that she would have a stronger-than-expected showing. So they immediately began urging Obama’s prospective superdelegates to withhold their support.
An Obama aide said: "Despite last-minute Clinton pranks, the rumor they're floating about a massive superdelegate rollout tomorrow is not true."
One Democratic lawmaker described “pushback” from the Clinton campaign but did not elaborate.
A senior Clinton aide said her supporters were scrambling to "freeze" members of Congress on the verge of announcing for Obama, and said a good night for Clinton would be key to forestalling the move.
The Obama campaign had an extensive “whip” organization set up to track and woo these officials, including members of Congress.
“We’ll wake up tomorrow and we’ll see where folks are,” an Obama aide said. “We have new support every single day.”
Obama forces responded to the Clinton overtures by telling superdelegates that regardless of Tuesday’s outcome, Obama would retain the lead in elected delegates.
An Obama official said his campaign plans to argue that even if she scored one or more victories on Tuesday, it would be “virtually impossible” for her to catch up in the delegate count.
An Obama statement said: “Three weeks ago, when they led polls in Texas and Ohio by 20 points, the Clinton campaign set their own test for today's primaries. They confidently predicted that they would win by landslide margins and wipe out the substantial edge Barack Obama has built in pledged delegates.
“But what we've seen is that voters in Ohio, Texas, Vermont and Rhode Island share the same urgent desire for change we have seen throughout the country. That's why we're confident that Barack Obama will maintain his delegate lead, leaving the Clinton campaign to explain why they failed their own test and exactly how they plan to win a nomination that, after tonight, will be virtually out of reach.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/8838.html
Bluesage @ 44:
Yes indeed, it is also very hard to understand why the English language and our own ears are so biased against Hillary. Damn the people who came up with this language and the evolutionary methods that gave us our ability to transmit information in the form of sound waves.
After all, we should always believe you and not our lying ears and comprehension skills. When Hillary praised her republican opponent and dished her own party fellow in the same breath. She was in no way, shape, or form doing that. Right?
Idiots....
Sailor Art Thomas, Jr. @ 51:
Thank you for that kind remark. I'm sure everyone who lives here in Florida appreciates your compassion and understanding.
buzz @ 50:
Projection is a very dangerous game.
Hello Patricia!!
It seems so obvious to me. If the states will not pay for a new election then there will have to be caucuses. The primaries that were held cannot stand. It would be equally unfair to the voters who didn’t vote as to the voters who did vote if they seat the delegates as they stand. Instead of arguing about whether these results should stand a tsunami of public opinion should overwhelm theses states for a fair election or caucuses. And soon. These states could and will decide the candidate for the DemocratIC party if they look forward and don’t stop arguing about the past.
Bluesage @ 26:
It sounds to me sir, that you will let anything come out of Hillerys mouth, and not question her motives.
If Obama is such an easy win for RePUGs in the elections, how come Rush-bo and a few other folks in Neocon Radio wanted rank and File RePUGs to vote for Hilliary in Ohio?
Before you make pronouncements about Oberman and Maddox, perhaps you should pull your head back out, so you can see better.
buzz @ 50:
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. FL and MI knew the rules before they changed the dates and did it anyway. They took the risk---and lost. And now Hillary wants to change the rules ex post facto because she benefits from it. As Dean said, he isn't changing the rules now. The rules apply to everyone equally, including Hillary.
Good for Dean! If Michigan and Florida politicos can get their act together, then they should re-submit plans. I agree the voters there have a right to be counted in a fair election, which plays by the rules.
Off-topic: But one of Clinton's strategies has been to repeatedly tie a Chicago defendant, Tony Rezko, to Obama. Only the Clinton's and their supporters have also received Rezko or Rezko-tied monies.
From Margie Burns [also more at TPM Election Central]:
pissed off patricia @ 43:
If independant were offered ballots with no candidates name on it and the democrats were told that their votes wouldn't count, the democrats should have been given a ballot with no candidates names on it. I would say the situation is being manipulated. I thought Kathrine Harris was out of office.
"After seven years of Republican rule, I am confident that we will elect a Democratic president who will fight for America’s families in the White House."
I also hope that the Democratic president will not fight only for America's families but for all American citizens and especially protect the Constitution that this Congress has trampled like garbage.
The Dude @ 57:
So Dude, can I call you Dude/
How dangerous is projection? and do you think that with your statement you are projecting yourself?
Don't you think that there are lots of Citizens who wish to vote for some person who doesn't fly to different extremes every day, unlike Hillary?
SM @ 49:
The funny thing is that all that "experience" talk by Hillary is utter nonsense. For starters, "experience" is a neutral concept. It is neither good nor bad. For example, an old crackwhore and a nobel price are both very experienced people. It is the context of their experiences that makes the difference. And if we are going to review Hillary's voting record... we can see that her "experience" is not really that good.
Ironically, if she ends up being the Dem nominee, the GOP will be able to neutralize her "experience" claims in 2 seconds flat. All that will happen is that McInsane will run an ad with Hillary endorsing him saying how he is "experienced." And then they will frame her "experience" with the actual real term for what this greedy idiot is trying to make us forget: she does not have "experience" she has "baggage."
So those of you so concerned with poor Obama being fed to the GOP wolfs. Be careful with your own advice. Because Hillary is much, much, much weaker... no matter how many hissy fits she throws at her fellow Dem opponents.
Because, at the end of the day... would any of you care to tell me where was that fire in her belly during her past 2 terms in the senate. I guess her experience is to kiss Bush's ass, and throw a temper tantrum at her fellow Dem.
I don't particularly care about that "experience" that much... But I guess that for tastes there are colors....
I, like others hear will vote for the Dem candidate. Hill or Obama. They are both too far right for my liking but so it goes. Neither one could fuck up this country as much as Bush has. Nobody could. Well , if McCain gets elected all bets are off. He is as capable as Bush it looks like.
Captain Kangaroo @ 58:
Hello right back at cha!
Funny thing is, I don't hear democrats down here talking about the election and what should or didn't happen. The only place I hear about it is on the national news. I think most people here in Florida have accepted what happen and are ready to vote in November.
natisman @ 64:
I recommend you read up on what projection is...
Regarding experience: In the last few days, Hillary has repeatedly acknowledged that McCain has more experience than her or Obama. Way to go Hillary!