The price of the war in Iraq and the 'stuff of nightmares'
By Steve Benen Wednesday Mar 05, 2008 2:12pmThe NYT’s Bob Herbert had an important column on a recent congressional hearing that barely generated any attention at all. The focus was on the cost of the war in Iraq, which is likely to reach $2 trillion, if not more.
On Thursday, the Joint Economic Committee, chaired by Senator Chuck Schumer, conducted a public examination of the costs of the war. The witnesses included the Nobel Prize-winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz (who believes the overall costs of the war — not just the cost to taxpayers — will reach $3 trillion), and Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International.
Both men talked about large opportunities lost because of the money poured into the war. “For a fraction of the cost of this war,” said Mr. Stiglitz, “we could have put Social Security on a sound footing for the next half-century or more.”
Mr. Hormats mentioned Social Security and Medicare, saying that both could have been put “on a more sustainable basis.” And he cited the committee’s own calculations from last fall that showed that the money spent on the war each day is enough to enroll an additional 58,000 children in Head Start for a year, or make a year of college affordable for 160,000 low-income students through Pell Grants, or pay the annual salaries of nearly 11,000 additional border patrol agents or 14,000 more police officers.
What we’re getting instead is the stuff of nightmares.
Noting this, Matt Yglesias added, “Few people seem to appreciate it, but it’s quite literally true that al-Qaeda’s strategy is to cripple the U.S. economy by dragging us into quagmires abroad. Osama bin Laden himself has said this, and it’s the only strategy that makes sense. A smallish number of people with no base of resources can’t possibly defeat us unless we shoot ourselves in the foot repeatedly as Bush and McCain propose.”
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Cultist creed rally here!
Aw, fungo! Don't tell Mr & Mrs Murkin how many kids could be sent to Head Start with a day's Fun In Iraq With Dick And Bush money....tell them instead how many NEW PRISONS could have built here in USA with the squandered funds.
If you have enough prisons, you don't need schools. Isn't that the motto of the Federalist Society?
Boy, ain't that the truth.
Republicans once again prove their greed and stupidity.
2 trillion dollars. Good grief.
Al-Qaeda and terrorism arew none-issues. You should be more worried about getting attacked by a shark inland.
leftminded @ 3:
Or shred ourselves with bias.
This war is such a waste, and I earned the right to say in in Anbar.
I watched "The Valley of Elah" last night. I was confronted with a very realistic portrayal of what can happen to your mind in war. One scene, where a guy is in a phone line, took me right back to Iraq. Fiction yes, but a very poignant story that tells some great truths.
I am sad today for where we are as a nation.
If the U.S. Government was a single individual, it would be like taking out a bunch of student loans, dropping out of school, and spending the borrowed cash on wild parties and simultaneously running up a the credit card. Then one day the credit is gone and that person has no job prospects.
EliteLemming @ 6:
You think terrorism does not exist? Look what is happening in Isreal this very second. The U.S. is hated just as much. If we CAN be attacked, we WILL BE.
Noting this, Matt Yglesias added, “Few people seem to appreciate it, but it’s quite literally true that al-Qaeda’s strategy is to cripple the U.S. economy by dragging us into quagmires abroad."
We (Bush and Congress) weren't dragged; we dove in head first.
$2 trillion in our tax dollars, all to invade the wrong stinkin' country to begin with:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
Steve @ 8:
I'm certainly loathe to say it, but your message was uncclear.
On Thursday, the Joint Economic Committee, chaired by Senator Chuck Schumer, conducted a public examination of the costs of the war.
Kinda torn here because it's not like it's a mystery that the costs of our aggression are astronomical, in the sense of costs both economic and in lives. The real question is what are Democrats going to do about it, besides giving the president a blank check, that is.
I really hope that hunger strikes come back into style (I don't mean the type in which you have very little choice in the matter, which is the case with more and more people these days) because I would really like to see our Democratic representatives actually do something on principal, as opposed to things purely done for political leverage.
nonbeliever @ 5:
Don't worry, in 10 years time 2 Trillion dollars won't be worth all that much.
2 to 3 Trillion dollars is what it cost us...???
What about the cost of rebuilding the infrastructure of Iraq?
What about the Iraqi homes and businesses lost?
What about the 2 to 3 million people displaced?
What about the 100,000 - 500,000+ dead Iraqis? How about the injured Iraqis?
What about the 5000+ dead Americans? (I'm including the ones that died off the battlefield. In Hospitals in Germany and the US that our government DOES NOT count!)
The 65,000+ US injured? Add the Head Injured not counted. Add the 10's of thousands left mentally ill from the experience? Iraqis and Americans.
Thank you Cheney/Bush
...the exact same way we took down the "Evil Empire" in the USSR?
Some years ago Cheney said "Reagan proved deficits don't matter,"
So the huge deficits Regan ran up are ok with conservatives.. and the even bigger ones Bush has run up are ok with them too.....
Well if deficites don't matter then why should they complain about any spending for a Democratic program? Go ahead and triple the payments Social Security pays out, we'll just put it on the magical deficit credit card, just like they do with the war (occupation). Healthcare, welfare, and double the education budget. It doesn't matter, it is all deficit spending!
If republicans didn't pisss their pants everytime they saw a muslim we could have ended the war by now. Republicans are cowards and pussies. Shit talking chickenhawks. If they would enlist, we would have more than enough troops.
And its not my war you assholes, you wanted it, you fight it.
Reality @ 10:
Come on man. It does exist. Is it the threat everyone says it is? Of course Isreal is promoting it, their policies have helped to further the cause. Let me first to say that fear is a better alternitave to a solution.
Bush's programs "Leave Americans Behind" and "More Wealth for my Friends" is working.
signed: Cats Hussein r Flyfishn
Four more years! Four more (disastrous) years! Of course, if McBush is elected, will this country survive four more years?
A very sobering report. Of course, our elected "representatives" in Washington, D.C are doing nothing to stop this national hemmoraging.
It shows that Bin Laden is smarter than our politicians are: they are doing exactly what he wants them to do. And even knowing about this incredible cost to our nation, our "representatives" still sit on their hands.
We really need to clean house in D.C.
Macho Americans fell right into the AQ plan of war spending dragging us into ruin.
Teleken @ 24:
Who's the f#@king AQ?
Reality @ 10:
you can't even spell 'israel' correctly. what's your fucking point, anyway? nobody discounts the existence of terrorists and terrorism in the world. nobody is talking about ignoring threats. those of us who actually spend some time educating ourselves about the realities of terrorism in the world understand that our current approach (and the entire neoconservative ideology) has fostered terrorism and made us less safe as a result.
idiots who continue to believe that our presence in iraq is doing ANYTHING to promote safety here at home or bring "democracy" to the middle east have as much blood on their hands as the neocons who started and want to escalate this debacle.
do yourself a favor. pull your head out of your ass and use it to start reading fact-based information instead of the propaganda you apparently wolf down with relish. the 'lemming' in your user name is so pathetically appropriate, it brings tears to my eyes.
In this regard, al Qaeda and the Bushies are both working to undermine the US economy, although for different reasons. Only the Bushies' aim is to destroy the social safety net, privatize the government and shift wealth to the wealthy.
EliteLemming @ 13:
Then you need to watch the movie.
I watched the movie and found it quite moving. I wanted to see some reviews before I watched it and found that some people objected to american soldiers being protrayed as so blood thristy.
HELLO!!!!! you stick these people into a war/insurgency multiple times and expect them to be the same person before they went to war.
Then you need to give your heads a shake
Al Qaeda. You remember them, right?
Just wondering how the costs of maintaining 100+ thousand troops and military planes, ships etc. in the mideast equals only "14,000 more police officers" ????
litmus @ 26:
Who are you talking to? Me or him? Are you just throwing pies? The facts are the cave-dwellers are of less concern to me than going to the gas station. aS far as my spelling, two-finger typing is a bitch.
Steve@8
I salute you, for what you did for your country(you stood up). I hope you find some peace now that you are back in the US
Its not the governments job to give your kid head start, or "make college more affordable", what the hell does this mean anyway, community college in California is like $17 a credit hour or something like that, everyone can afford that. Stop bitching of how this money could be used to social programs, this money is DEFICIT spending, meaning we borrowed it, we should have never had this money in the first place!
Leslie @ 27:
Beyond the short-term accumulated wealth obtained from defense contracts, the Iraq war is destroying wealth - not shifting it to the wealthy. By attributing everything to some grand master plan requires one to believe that Bush and his advisors are deviously intelligent folks. I tend to doubt that. Stupidity is what is guiding Bush.
Reality @ 10:
Btw, what is happening in Israel because I would like to know how it is that Israel justifies the killing of innocent people (I deliberately did not say 'women' and 'children' because adult males don't deserve to die without cause any more than anyone else does) way out of proportion to ANY attacks against them.
And besides, some in that region would say that the greatest impediment to peace are the actions of Israel.
Tbs, get over the childish notion that people 'hate' us for our freedoms or some such nonsense. One reason people dislike our government is that we do a lot of undermining governments all over the world (which is the primary reason Iranians dislike Americans).
Though you would know that if you, like many Americans, you didn't allow your knowledge of history to fall down the memory hole (thanks to Noam Chomsky for the 'memory hole' reference, btw).
.
How many "ZERO'S" in a Trillion?
~ 0 = G. W. Bush
~ 0 = R. B. Cheney
~ 0 = C. Rice
~ 0 = D. Rumsfeld
~ 0 = D. Feith
... It goes on a while...
.
By the way, those of you who want to, stay scared.
Oh, is the daily war cost equal yearly police salaries?
Perhaps day/day or year/year comparisons would be clearer.
DOW12089.16 -165.83 -1.35%
NASDAQ2233.24 -39.57 -1.74%
S&P 5001310.12 -23.58 -1.77%
NYMEX CRUDE OIL... US@CL.1 105.42 0.90 (+0.86%)
Foreclosures Hit a Record
Jobless Claims Fell Last Week But Remain High
Fed Must Act to Stem Crisis, Pianalto Says - The global credit crisis creates big downside risks to an already softening economy that require bold action from the U.S. central bank, Cleveland Federal Reserve President Sandra Pianalto said on Wednesday.
--------------
But I'm sure that busch and his buddies are doing well enough.
deebee @ 30:
Good point. Cheap police, or numbers really fubar?
.
ThinkProgress has a good one on the PROFITS of TWOT.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/06/kbr-taxes-cheney/
.
chris @ 33:
The better educated the masses, the more efficient and profit making corporations are. You don't want people with just a high school diploma trying to make capitalism work, do you?
since bush and mclame want to and are shooting us in the foot,
perhaps we could aim higher and shoot their balls into the wind.
When the US economy is controlled by oil companies; when the middle class is no more; Bush can finally say, "Mission accomplished!" and, "Welcome to Saudi America."
Unsean @ 35:
Thank You. The CIA causes more problems than they solve.
unfrozencaveman @ 34:
If they could ever get those darn brown people to lay down and die, there is a TON of money to be made in Iraq for decades to come, thus, wealthy getting wealthier. Bush and his gang ain't stupid. There is no such thing as a stupid rich person.
Right, it's the government's job to spend money for unnecessary wars; on no-bid multi-million-dollar contracts with companies that the government has political and financial ties with; on tax cuts for the wealthiest...I could go on.
Why would we want to spend our tax dollars on collapsing bridges and infrastructure, rebuilding drowned American cities, medical care for veterans and children, etc. Are there no workhouses, are there no prisons.
CoIntelPro @ 39:
I was one of those optomistic ones who thought we would avoid dollar panic and crawl our way back slowly. The writing is on the wall now, the dollar is going to crash. The burden of rocketing oil and food prices falls entirely on the dollar. This ends badly.
If Osama wanted to destroy America economically by hitting the World Trade Center. He unfortunately just may be succeeding. That is sad to think how easily we played into those hands. Why did we go into Iraq? Who benefited? Do these multi-national corporations have any loyalty to America or the American people. Do these corporations run the White House and Congress in a a way that our only representatives in this world are in fact more loyal to these multi-national corporations or business interests, Halliburton, Carlyle Group, etc., then they are to the American people.
It's time we really reflect on our situation here, and talk about or determine an appropriate course of action.
I'm voting for Obama, because I think he is the less beholden to these establishments and corporate interests than the other candidates, but I am under no illusion that he can save us as a country. Our currency is weakening. Lou Dobbs just went on The Alex Jones Radio show today saying we are in a crisis. I hope we take this stuff seriously. And all work together to bring about the solution. Damn.
ConcernedCanuck @ 42:
No But I don't want a give me culture either, you want a degree, work for it, like I said, community college in California is doable.
Besides, brick layer, mechanics, plumbers, these are the people that did not go to college, we need them.....
ConcernedCanuck @ 45:
There is such a thing as a stupid rich person - they are called scions. Bush is one of those.
Remember, folks, it's not a war -- and it never was. It was and remains an illegal, immoral invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with 9/11. It is a gargantuan crime that needs be redressed.
That was so easy to write. Why can't any Democrats just step up and say the same thing?
It's not a war crime, but Bush and his gang are war criminals. They deserve execution, if not long prison terms.
unfrozencaveman @ 47:
It's an even worse picture when you see how much we import. And china has not really upped their prices yet, so the hammer really has yet to fall. Walmart will become unaffordable.
chris @ 48:
Not with the construction industry in the tank you don't. I'm curious though. You advocate capitalism in it's purest form every time you post here. The US is more capitalist (or was) than any nation on the globe, and yet is up to hock to it's taxpayer's ears with no end in sight, and yet the rich remain and get richer, the poor poorer, and STILL the rich and corporate get tax breakes. Is that not proof of the failure of your ideas? Look at the debt. You blame THAT on social programs? Hell, you have no social programs compared to my country, and we are not anywhere near in debt like you.
unfrozencaveman @ 49:
Bush wouldn't be able to get himself elected to a third grade presidency without the rich and powerful backing him. Look behind the curtain. People give Bush way too much credit and blame. He isn't pulling any strings. He prob can't even do up his own zipper.
State of NJ wants to end aid to municipalities.
Who says that the american people are not sharing the cost of the war?
ConcernedCanuck @ 53:
DIEBOLD is all busch has ever needed.
"Noting this, Matt Yglesias added, “Few people seem to appreciate it, but it’s quite literally true that al-Qaeda’s strategy is to cripple the U.S. economy by dragging us into quagmires abroad. Osama bin Laden himself has said this, and it’s the only strategy that makes sense."
We should throw the above quote to some of the right-wing bobble-heads @ Faux News whenever they keep on asking which presidential candidate would OBL be most afraid of.....
chris @ 33:
I got news for you, Chris, that's exactly what government is for (and I would be quite happy if any taxes I paid went toward providing health care and affordable housing for all Americans too). And btw, how do you have any idea that anyone could afford $17 per credit.
Selfish and arrogant, what a combination.
What government isn't for is to support those that don't need it. Corporations and rich folk fall are in that basket, btw.
enor @ 16:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb245/index.htm
Osama Bin Ladin couldn't have gotten a better ally in his attempt to cripple America's economy. Bush played like a fool in a Casino and bet the pile (our pile) on the war the NeoCon/PNAC group sold to him. The cake-walk, where they greet us as friends for bombing the crap out of their country.
All this secrecy in this administration is for good reason. If it were all bared on the table there would be war trials.
And now bush wants to fire the one guy (again) with any brains about the military (Fallow).
Meanwhile bush's minions are busy trying to pass bills to stop the recording of this history.
How does an invisible, probably dead, smalltime terrorist with few supporters worldwide, have anything to do with the US spending billions upon billions in Iraq and Afghanistan? He has nothing to do with this, even if he is alive somewhere. I don't buy this line of BS and I never bought this line of BS. I guaranDAMNtee you, if you killed someone, there would be a nationwide search for you. They would hunt you down like a dog, with dogs even, until they caught you, OR the trail got so cold they couldn't track you. They've stating right from Sept 12th 2001, they KNEW where OBL was. IF he truly was guilty of any of this (and the gov't really gave a shit), they would have used global sympathy, and sent 150,000 troops to any and all parts of the world they thought he was hiding. Did they? NO.
Thank god, the WRITERS haved a union.
ConcernedCanuck @ 60:
Do you have a vote?
ConcernedCanuck @ 52:
Ireland has the most economic freedom, then its Hong Kong, we are 5th, or somewhere around there........ http://www.heritage.org/Index/topten.cfm
The reason the rich and corporate get taxes break is because these are the people who own the business, thus we have to give them an incentive to invest, the other reason is because THEY PAY ALL THE TAXES!!!, who do you think funds this country, you and your $50,000 a year?? NO! Bill Gates and Exxon Moble.. I don't know what country you live in but does it have 300 million people with our land size? that makes a difference...
EliteLemming @ 62:
Thats what i thought ... hack.
Can someone please find the video of a 2004 debate where Darth Vader scoffed at Edwards when he said the price of the war could be $200 billion? Everytime I see the dollar costs of this royal fuck-up I think of that debate.
EliteLemming @ 64:
What does THAT have to do with anything? You don't understand my point, or are you just playing dumb?
chris @ 63:
Yawn.......I've read this spam before Chris. It was wrong and utter bullshit before, and it is wrong and utter bullshit now. You are deluded in your thinking. If your wonderful capitalist eutopian ideal worked, the entire world would be awash in money, glorious money. There would be no war, no poverty and no need to post the same thing over and over that is still proven false.
Forget all those experts.
How can anyone possibly come up with the total cost of the war?
Until the last penny is repaid to China, or whoever is financing this fiasco, interest will accrue.
Imagine you have an interest-only loan with a balloon payment to pay off the principal. Until that balloon payment is made, the total cost of this loan will rise.
ConcernedCanuck @ 67:
OKay so I'll take it your conceding defeat to me :)
let's see....
for $2trillion perhaps we might have had over a decade...
a working fusion reactor and energy Independence for the nation.
once we had that we would have a budget surplus and a export/import balance finally in the black.
OPEC would be eating sand and the terrorist networks would dry up from lack of funds.
domestic funding could rise and debt could be paid off and ss secured and universal health care enacted with nary a pain.
hydrogen powered cars could be built powered by fusion generated hydrogen and the co2 levels would benefit.
but no...we had chimpy the decider....$2trillion spent and still the meatball can't hit the bulls-eye on osama's forehead.
Of worthy note in Bob Herbert's article above(in blue entitled "important column") is
para number 9. Much, very, very much, of the cost of bush's war in Iraq does not
got thru "normal" budgetary process, but is often referred to as "emergency or off-
budget" monies, so the 2 to 3 trillion figures may be "soft", and who is paying for all
of these costs? The taxpayers today, but of equal importance, our grandchildren
and great grandchildren will be still facing this debt when they are adults.
ConcernedCanuck @ 60:
So WHY is your government medling in Ohio?
Foreclosures Hit a Record
Jobless Claims Fell Last Week But Remain High
The only reason for job claims falling, folks have used
up their 26 week of checks, and are no longer on the list
as being unemployed.
Unsean @ 58:
Fine the, we can make a separate tax system, if you want Socialism and the higher taxes, stand over here, if you want to be a responsible adult, stand over here.........
Who decides what "affordable" housing is, I love when dems throw that word around. It does not matter what program they had it would never be affordable, the USA would also have someone who was on the streets or poor..
Government is not here to support anyone, "rich folk" are supporting themselves........