Marc Ambinder has the scoop:
“We are committed to working with the DNC, the Florida State Democratic party, our Democratic leaders in Florida, and our two candidates to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated. Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.”
I thought the mail-in idea was worth considering. Oregon’s similar system is one of the safest and most efficient in the nation. They did have a decade (instead of a few months) to perfect it, though. Dean really needs to start flexing his muscle and enforcing the agreed-upon rules. If the states refuse a re-vote, split them down the middle.
Kos gets it right:
Here’s how you seat them — you cut them in half for breaking the rules, like the GOP did, and then you assign them 50/50 each to Obama and Clinton. Presto! Issue solved.
Would work with Michigan, too.
States and future candidates need to know that the rules will be enforced. If they are not, there’s no way we can enforce a new calendar without New Hampshire and Iowa at the head. They’ll break the rules, and candidates fearful that the results will count will have no choice but to campaign, defeating the purpose of the new calendar.
No Trackbacks To “Florida House Says “No” to Primary Re-Vote“
What’s the point of cutting them in half if you’re just going to split them 50/50 anyway?
There’s already been discussions a Solomon type solution about splitting the delegates and awarding to each half.
However, expect controversy over equal number over proportional, over who actually won them in the first place.
This would require at least half the delegates to vote against their voters intentions.
Oh man
But if they ultimately end up ‘Re-Doing’ Florida, Why Not Also ‘2000′?
Don Davis @ 4:
They’ll probably be a remake of 3000
It really pissed off the Persians.
Why don’t we rotate the states that go first each election? Who says is always has to be Iowa and New Hampshire/ Maybe have five states that go first on hte same date.
This crap about NH and Iowa going first each time is long overdue for major change.
If Florida was swept off to sea, would anyone really notice (or care)?
Yes, split them in half… to heck with the actual VOTERS in Florida. The people in charge there made a decision without consulting them, so to heck with the voters! They should have risen up en-masse and destroyed their evil overlords and held their primary on schedule, even if they have no actual say in the process!
Disenfranchise them! Poke them with sharp sticks! Who are they to think THEY matter? They’re just innocent VOTERS, to heck with them! It’s not like they matter or count! Then on to those evil Michiganders! We know what they’re up to! Disenfranchise them too! Their rights don’t count either!
(RE: typos. Man, my typing fingers have a mind of their own today.)
I disagree with Kos. The Democratic voters of Michigan and Florida should have their say. It’s not their fault that their state representation screwed up. Particularly this is the case in Florida where the Dems are in the minority in both state legislatures and the governor is a repug. By cutting the delegates in half, you effectively take Florida’s Democratic voters out of the candidate selection process.
You want to remove Florida from the them and expect them to show up in November? Fat chance.
Re-vote Michigan and Florida and not by a mail in or caucus either.
I think the dlegates should be split in half. If anyone believes that voter fraud won’t go on during a mail in revote then they are living on Pluto. The clintons and the republicans would love nothing more than to steal this election from Obama. You can tell by the party insiders who have come forward with a plan to raise money and pay for the election. As if these politicians don’t have trouble in their own respective backyards. Crist? A Republican who wants to see Clinton get the nod so that McCain can wipe the floor with her.
One thing I firmly believe is that Obama is only responding to Clinton in his bid to become president. He doesn’t want to tear the party apart. He is the stand up candidate. I don’t know what the hell kind of candidate Clinton is. I think she’s a neo-con personally. When this democratic primary contest is settled and I hope very soon and Obama wins it all Obama will fight fire with fire.
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 9:
Fill up your cup with more joe.
uhhh, maybe you haven’t heard? The freaking governor of New York stepped down. If this guy was a republican, you guys would tripping over yourselves to comment with lurid detail and disgust. show some pine and call it what it is regardless of party: sad and disgusting. or..delete my comments…….
Ryan @ 1:
Because it punishes them, cut them in half and they have less delegates and less super-delgates. If you just split them 50/50, there is no real punishment.
Like it matters. Obama is the next President - regardless of what racist statements the Clinton campaign continues to endorse.
let the widdle baby have her FL MI dewagates, even with them she’s still 100 behind, unless she wins 100 delegates in pennsylvainia, then she’s out.
What’s the use of having punishments if you cannot enforce them?
Splitting them 50/50 will seat them(delegates), but not award them for breaking the rules.
Clinton should be ashamed of herself…but we know she is not.
PrincetonPDX @ 14:
Hedging your bet eh?
[Deleted. Turn off the Caps lock key-Sitemonitor]
nonbeliever @ 10:
You speak as if the race for a candidate is a dead tie. It’s not, as much as the MSM would like you to believe. Obama crushes Hilalry wioth big wins. She squeaks by win narrow margins. Look at Nevada for crying out loud. Great she got the popular vote, but he got more delegates than she did.
Florida and Michigan WILL show up in November. Why? Because they knew their votes weren’t going to count. That is why only 1.7 million Floridians voted. That may sound like a big number, but for Florida it is a tiny turnout.
Take half of them away, split them in half. The only fair way to do it. A re-vote is going to open up the pandora box again (2000 anyone?). If they re-vote and Hillary loses, she come up with another excuse, if Obama loses they will cry foul as well.
L.A. Confidential @ 17:
I don’t uderstand how the KOS thing is a solution. A tie is just like zero,zero so then why seat them. A the DNC and Florida Democrats should sue Florida Repugs for interfering with democratic process.
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 7:
Umm. yes I would…livin here and all…that would kinda suck.
Though, I’ve said the same about Cali.
I think their voices should be heard and it was heard. We know they voted. We know how many voted. We also knew they violated the law. The people of Florida had a choice. Make sure they had a paper trail even if that meant that they would move the primaries up or keep the primaries in place and no paper trail in the GE. They chose to move the primaries up and have a paper trail in the GE. The DNC told them not to move the process up and like bad children they decided to thumb their noses at the DNC as if rules don’t matter. Everyone agreed to the rules on all sides. Now they want a do over?
That’s like a bank robber robbing a bank then promising to bring the money back if the law won’t put him in jail. You think that’s not gonna happen. They broke the rules and now they don’t want to pay the price for violating the rules. What good are rules if you break them.
No do overs. Split the delegates evenly like the GOP and seat them.
At first I was really pissed at the FL representatives that allowed the republicans to screw us up, then I found out they voted with them. Then I found out that the republicans basically blackmailed the dems into voting to move the primary date up by throwing the much needed paper vote on the back of the bill.
So the DNC should pay for a revote since it’s not the people’s fault and if the bill needs to be split it should be the governement of FL and the DNC paying, thanks for screwing the voters again Charlie Christ…you knew this would happen.
As for Mich, they must have a revote, all the canidates were not even on the ballot, that’s not an election, sorry Hillary you can’t jump on that!
Unfortunately, the voters have to live by the rules of the party they choose to affiliate with. Rules are rules. Stick to them or democrats will be seen as just as corrupt as republicans.
If Florida’s democratic voters don’t like it, they can be more careful about how they vote in the future, especially related to who’s controlling the party in their state. That’s the way the republic we live in works, baby!
PrincetonPDX @ 14:
lets please not get that shit started up.
You got it C & R. Clinton and her republican freinds cannot change the rules at half-time because they’re losing.
Split the delegates 50-50. Let clinton drop out. And let’s call it a primary season. Turn the force on the real opponent. Or is clinton a republican and we’re already fighting the gop?
Dean needs to start flexing his muscle and tell Florida tough shit. You don’t break the rules. Sorry.
EliteLemming @ 21:
They can’t. They voted for it. The Republicans slipped the primary move into a bill requiring a paper ballot for every electronic vote. If the Democrats voted against the bill, then there would be no paper ballot for a electronic vote. It’s not like the Democrats didn’t know what they were voting for.
Nice of kos to take votes away from Hillary and award the votes to his candidate.
He doesn’t live in either state, and he was telling Democrats in Michigan to vote for a GOP candidate.
vincie @ 18:
Fairness is sticking by the rules. It was soo funny seeing Hillary claiming victory over Florida….I mean sad and pitiful. The Obama ads were part of a national distribution and was approved by the DNC. Once again, he was playing by the rules. Is it sooo hard to play by the rules????
Palooka @ 28:
I’ not to empathetic for Michigan, but I do think Florida got screwed by the GOP in thier state on this matter.
biff @ 13:
Excuse me, take it down a notch or take it walking. I know it’s hard for you to believe, Biff, but there are other more relevant things to discuss right now than letting you get off on some sex scandal. We are processing the video of Spitzer’s resignation (a story we’ve covered before if you were actually smart enough to scroll down the page a bit) and it will be posted when we are good and ready, not when we get some snotty off topic and poorly spelled post tries to challenge us.
Now either comment on topic or leave.
biff @ 13:
Call this conservative crybaby a waaahmbulance. You might notice that Spitzer is not the topic of this thread. I’m sure there were plenty of jokes in the rest of the Spitzer threads. Get a grip.
The voters need to return to the polls. At the time of the vote, voters were not as familiar with Obama since he did not campaign there at all, and time has passed giving him momentum. Clinton had name recognition and already works well with Latinos. But much has changed since that vote, and the odds were severely stacked in Clinton’s favor at the time. To seat them or even seat them 50/50 based on the existing vote is incredibly unfair. Revote or don’t be included.
PrincetonPDX @ 29:
That some sneaky shit, but there had to be a way to fight it.
EliteLemming @ 26:
EliteLemming @ 36:
I agree
First of all this race isn’t tied, it’s not close. Each side is presenting their case but the facts are in the math. Math can not be nuanced. Obama is ahead in every category. Period.
The media is spinning everyone and some of you are falling for it. They want this thing to go on. It doesn’t matter what she does, the will of the voters are in play and there is clear evidence that Obama has won.
You think if obama had been down 12 states, he’d still be in this race? No! The MSM wants you to believe that she is still viable. She can’t win unless she convinces the SD to overturn the will of the people. and what would that look like? Republicans. 2000. 2004. If Dems want this then they look just like Republicans.
Off topic, but awesome. Boing Boing’s Joel Johnson gets subversive on AT&T’s own show, “The Hugh Thompson Show”, criticizing AT&T’s apparent intention to “filter” user content that passes through their servers. Enjoy!
Here’s how you enforce party discipline without disenfranchising the voters. If a state breaks primary rules, you: 1) Unseat that state’s super delegates and 2) allow the election or caucus to continue.
How come they can’t vote on the phone sans American Idol? We have the technologie.
The whole situation just sucks. For Florida, you have Democrates who sacrificed their primary for paper a trail so we don’t get another election decided by the supreme court like in 2000 or questionable the results of Ohio in 2004. I have no idea what Michigan was thinking. 50/50 sounds fair if your an Obama supporter since it would almost guarantee him the nomination. For Hillary to stand there and claim the delegates of an invalid primary is just her wanting to bend the rules in her favor and get the nomination at any cost.
Howard Dean will have to do his job and anger one group if there isn’t another re-vote and impose a solution.
Why cant we all just come together?
I hope the voters of those states remember who changed the rules on them when it does come their time to vote again (can anyone say Republican governors?).
The Kos thing is a viable solution in that:
A. Cutting the dels in half reduces the number of people who get to go to the convention. Trust me, for delegates, thats what the whole thing is about. Thats the punishment part.
B. Splitting the dels 50/50 between Obama and HRC isn’t a perfect solution but its the best you can do without re-doing the primary AND the 50/50 split makes the delegates pointless, further punishment.
Regardless of where you stand on who gets to have a primary first, I hope you’d agree that there at least needs to be some control to keep them from starting earlier and earlier as they leapfrog each other trying to be first.
Solution @ 41:
That’s like getting sent to your room for punishment and having a tv, cell phone, Playstation, Wii System, drum set and ordering from Papa Johns. Gimme a break.
Only thing is, it’s the voters of Florida and Michigan who get screwed. Don’t they get a voice? Love the way Kos and others disenfranchise them. How self-righteous and hypocritical can he get?
Clinton says that the delegates don’t matter but she is trying to do an end around to get Obama’s delegates and or close the gap by using FL and Mi to get them. So if they don’t matter then why does FL and Mi matter?
The delegates matter because Obama has more of them.