The Atlantic’s Mark Ambinder has the scoop:
Michigan’s 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.
–Florida’s existing delegates would be seated at the Denver convention—but with half a vote each. That would give Clinton a net gain of about 19 elected delegates.
– The two states’ superdelegates would then be able to vote in Denver, likely netting Clinton a few more delegates.
Given the slew of bad and costly remedies floated so far, this actually doesn’t sound like a bad way to quickly save untold millions and seat the two states’ delegates. On the one hand we don’t want to essentially disenfranchise these voters, but on the other, the rules are the rules. We don’t need to start the post-Bush era of America by breaking the rules.
Howard Dean needs to start cracking skulls and make this right.
No Trackbacks To “A Solution for Michigan and Florida?“
Give ME the delegates!
Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz tried to pin the blame on the Republican-led Flordia State Legislature, saying they were the ones who pushed the early primary … but because the general measure included provisions for both paper trails and manual recounts, the Democrats all voted in favor of it.
So, let me get this straight. In order to protect voters from fraud and disenfranchisement, you voted for a measure that would result in your state’s delegates not being seated AT ALL? Ever think about saying something like, “Our esteemed colleagues have overlooked that the Democratic National Committee has prohibited states from holding their primaries before x date,”???
If Florida and Michigan want their votes counted then nothing short of a new vote with an actual date and actual campaigning is going to make voters happy. To arbitrarily apply a 50/50 split is ludicrous. You might as well not even count the votes… its meaningless and it has no impact on the election.
Personally I say redo the whole thing. Let the state of Florida and Michigan pay for it if the state Democratic party doesn’t have the money. The results will be the same as nearly every other state… one candidate gets 48% and the other 49%.
Or here is an idea… WHY NOT JUST HAVE HILLARY CONCEDE SINCE SHE HAS ZERO CHANCE OF WINNING NOW ANYWAY!
The rules? These rules were made by the party, not codified in law. These rules are themselves responsible for disenfranchising me along with millions of others in MI. There should be a re-vote in MI, paid for by the party. Its not about saving money, its about democracy. I want my vote to count, not be negotiated into nullification on some false notion of fairness or frugality. The party made this mess. They should fix it.
doctor dean is beginning to look to me like one very incompetent manager. how did this situation get this screwed up and stay this screwed up for so long without effective national party leadership? and of course all the dnc money has been decentralized out as part of the fifty state strategy in which we are supposed to have some chance of winning georgia, south carolina, mississippi, etc. in november?? kerry states plus ohio and we make the next few supreme court picks….seems pretty obvious to me….sometimes i think the democratic party is like a patient with badly clogged coronary arteries and instead of artery replacement the good doctor is sending the patient for chelation.
It’s all smoke and mirrors. It’s over folks. Obama is damaged goods, and you can blame the McCain-Hillary neocon axis.
A recent PEW poll shows that 10% of Democrats who support Obama would defect and vote for McCain should Hillary become the candidate.
But, a whopping 25% of Democrats who support Hillary would defect and vote for McCain should Obama become the candidate.
Hillary’s ass-kissing of McCain as a leader who has “crossed the threshold,” and her campaigns’ belitting portrayals of Obama as an uppity-black Muslim who got nuthin’ but a soaring voice, have succeeded beyond her wildest dreams — pandering to racists and war-lovers.
Hillary’s new strategy: Obama can’t win the general election, because a quarter of my supporters are racists and warmongers.
A winning strategy! Bravo, Team Clinton.
Is it a mess?
The rules were not to have the primary before super-tuesday, they broke the rules, and the delegates were taken away.
sounds clean to me.
Redoing the vote seems expensive, logistically difficult and extrodinary.
If we are to do it in these two states why not in every state? After all then Democrats would be able to vote for one of TWO candidates instead of one of Many as they did the first time around. That would give a truly resounding answer to the question, “Who do the Democrats want in the White House?”
interesting, this amerikan democrassy… yes…
Hillary says the Michigan and Florida primaries were fair. She was the only one on the ballot (except Kucinich I think). Everyone else took their name off after signing the pledge to do so. Hillary signed it also but didn’t follow through. Her statement implies that all the candidates had the same option to cheat as she did but she was the only one who did. (that’s my interpretation)
KO showed this last night. Another Rovian play from the Clinton camp.
And Obama is continuing his winning streak. They guy came from nowhere to become the leading democratic contender against the biggest names in the party. The guy has defeated every obstacle that has come before him so far, why am I to suppose things will change?
sheik yerbouti @ 6:
Obama is damaged goods?
How is it that Hillary can shoot herself in the foot, Ferraro can shoot off her mouth and it damages Obama?
Explain this, please.
Shadowgm @ 2:
The whole thing doesn’t make sense. Perfunctorily dividing the “delegates” in half is democratic how? Dean should’ve seen this coming last year. Not planning for any worst-case scenarios is disgraceful. Heck of a job, Howard. Who’s the DNC brain trust besides Dean? The longer he doesn’t do anything about this, the more pathetic & embarrassing it is for the Dems.
I live in Florida and I voted (for Obama). However, I was aware that by breaking the rules the Florida delegates were not going to be seated. I have many friends who didn’t bother to vote at all because the rules were broken. With one exception, they were ALL Obama supporters. The bottom line is that the vote in Florida is invalid, no matter how you look at it. Those who voted are being disenfranchised. And those who didn’t bother to vote because they were told their vote wouldn’t count anyway were disenfranchised. I personally don’t think any delegates should be seated. The Florida DNC was warned, and they chose to go along with the Republicans anyway. As for Michigan, they also broke the rules, knowing what the results would be. Now everybody wants to be seated anyway! People need to grow up. If you break the rules (or law), you deal with the consequences. We’ve had enough lawlessness in this country for the past 7+ years via the Bush administration. We certainly don’t need to see the Democratic party behaving the same way.
As a Michigan voter, I think the state should have to pay for it again. It was the State’s republican based senate that caused the mess in Michigan. Either the State says yes we were wrong, and pays for a revote, OR no votes get counted. Which would be the wise thing, since Obama wasn’t on the ballot the first time.
why is Hillary supposed to benefit from this so-called ‘fair’ solution and not Obama?
no matter how you slice it, the fix is in!
That’s very generous, giving delegates to Obama that he didn’t earn.
What about “the will of the people?”
It must be a coincidence that the Obama supporters seem more interested in fixing the election rather than fixing the problem.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 12:
Look at the numbers:
10% of Democrats who support Obama would defect and vote for McCain should Hillary become the candidate.
25% of Democrats who support Hillary would defect and vote for McCain should Obama become the candidate
The Obama camp has way more committed Democratic voters than does Clinton.
The Clinton campaigns’ negativity against Obama, and positivity about McCain, is having the desired effect. It’s a classic Rovian triangulation divide-and-conquer.
Advantage Billary.
impeachcheneythenbush @ 14:
This really is the best argument. The process is tainted and therefore should be thrown out.
The rules about food you find in the refridgerator applies here as well, “When in doubt, throw it out.”
sheik yerbouti @ 18:
Right now, but the General election is in November. Those numbers are meaningless ion the heat of battle.
sure… give her some free delegates on a state that broke the rules.
The dems won’t win in ‘08.
they’ve already fucked themselves beyond repair.
Good job morons.
Doesn’t matter who’s side your on. Wall Street Obama, Von Hillary, or Nuke McCain.
Everyones cheating and trying to manipulate the game.
OBAMA WAS NOT ON THE MICHIGAN BALLET, BUT ALL WERE ON THE FLORIDA BALLET. BY THE WAY OBAMA IS THE ONLY ONE IN FLORIDA TO CAMPAIGN ON TV.
Shadowgm @ 2:
the important thing in florida was protecting the vote and the voters’ rights. that apparently is not important enough to you to keep you from finding someone to get angry at, eh? do a search through C&L a couple of pages back and listen to what debbie really had to say to britany hume.
What is the point of just splitting these equally, how is that any different than not seating them and having the winner required to win fewer delegates like they are doing now.
L.A. Confidential @ 22:
Everyone?
What has Obama done?
When a Hillary supporter starts saying “everyone is doing it” you have to ask.
vincie @ 23:
I think you’ll find the t.v. campaigning you’re referring to were ads on national t.v. including Florida. Try again.
seele @ 7:
Then stop calling it the Democratic Party because that’s fundamentally not democratic. It’s egotistical voter disenfranchisement by 2 small States. This century’s Me First! Generation at work. Letting the Repubs dictate the rules, in FL no less. What a surprise it’s turned into a disaster.
Let’s make it even simpler… Seat them both - Split them both 50/50 - and let the super delegates do what super delegates do.
Simple, Fair, and Free.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 26:
Ask what?
I think Florida and Michigan should organize a football game. Whoever wins gets to keep the ball. Other than that they can watch it on tv.
sheik yerbouti @ 6:
Let’s just Declare Obama President of The United States so his supporters will shut up with their constant whining and bickering.
I don’t understand the broo-ha-ha here. The rules were very, very, very simple. The punishment was very, very, very clearly stated. The rules were broken, the price must be paid.
As for dinging Dean, as far as I can tell, all he’s done is reiterated that the rules should be followed, and when they aren’t, the transgressors must be punished.
What is so hard to follow here? What am I missing?
sheik yerbouti @ 6:
That would mean that one helluva lot of Clinton supporters are Republican then, wouldn’t it? So, they had no intention of voting Dem anyway.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 26:
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
Leaving out my question is not as clever as you might think.
Howard Dean needs to start cracking skulls and make this right.
Why would he? He is a part of the problem in politics. Party clowns don’t understand this very simple fact.
L.A. Confidential @ 33:
Its a deal if you stop pissing and moaning.
WRG @ 29:
I don’t know why Hillary is pushing for this. Every state she has ran against Obama, she has either barely won, or been pounded. It isn’t going to make a difference on the eventual winner.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 38:
Oh okay it’s my fault now huh?
How old are you?
WRG @ 29:
Put them both on a chait cut’em in half, and let the delegates help themselves to whatever is left.
Okay that make you happy?
L.A. Confidential @ 40:
How old am i?
Older than John Amato.
What a friggin mess!
Here I do dual duty for Party.
Bringing the Party Together!
I say, fuck MI and FL. Rules are rules ladies and gentlemen, breaking rules and getting a do-over or an exemption is Bush rule. Do we really want to continue the unaccountability trend any longer? Tough tittys folks, you made your cake now it’s time to lie in it. And WTF is wrong with Florida? Howard Dean should have one mandate alone; get one valid vote out of this plagued and demented state by say, November 2008?