The train wreck of bad debt meets the Saint Paddy's Day Parade of bacchanalian excess at the grade-crossing of destiny.

So what does anyone expect from the criminal cabal that stole 2 elections and cheered on ENRON all the way to the end?

GREAT CRIMES DEMAND EVEN GREATER CRIMINALITY!

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

I'm sure it's no coincidence that the same regulations that were put in place *after* the '29 crash/depression/economic downturn were the ones being dismantled by the government-is-bad crow. You know, the ones that provided oversight and check measures pertaining to interest rates, banking practices, etc.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's time for REregulation, not deregulation. Robber barons and depressions. History repeating itself indeed...

How to keep that Yukon Denali fueled up enough for the 20 trips to the mall this coming week.

Bank shmank, I've been considering cashing out my 401-k.

little bear @ 4:

FBush @ 2:

It doesn't take an economist to understand why its happening.

Voters elected representatives whose only interest is the corporate bottom
line. They elected a commander in chief because they felt that
they could have a beer with him.

With all that's happening across Wall Street, we get video of a president
doing soft shoe at the WH. Or singing parody songs about a traitorous chief of staff.
And on and on and on...

Don't kid yourself - chimpy did not win those 2 elections and the majority of Americans did not want to "have a beer" with an obnoxious AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict.

Just one of many lies that was used to divert attention from the vote fraud.

Even I have made the same error but, it was election fraud, not vote fraud. All in all, I got your point.

I want to know why we've had this continuous system of various ponzi schemes of the last 20 years?
First the S&L crisis. Money was dumped in fake banks with hopes of making a quick buck.
Then the stock market. All you had to do was dump every bit of your life savings and any equity you had in your house into the stock market and kick back and make 80%. Then the housing mess where you bought and sold your home overnite to make a quick buck.
This all reminds me of the Enron mess. Those guys took money and moved it around to different places and each time the money stopped at a certain place, the investment value went up. They created these shell companies that promised outrageous returns and as along as the money was still moving from one place to another, fake riches were being created on top of the new wealth that was chasing these investments. As long as they were one step ahead of the investigators, they were safe.
I'm sorry if that doesn't make total sense. But to me, it just seems like rich people are able to con us into investing our hard earned dollars into various "investments" that promise great wealth with very little effort and then these "bubbles" are created that pop and the only people that are hurt from the "pop" are the common folks like us because we were told "just invest your money, don't ask questions, it's stupid not to invest, you're losing out, dump all your wealth". So we dump everything we have and they sell us this piece of paper that really is of no value for all our money and they take that money and keep it and the only way you survive is by finding someone more stupid than you to keep selling this piece of paper to.
So any wealth that was earned and created by 50 years of hard work and union wages in the mid 1900s is being taken back by the rich people thru these crazy schemes.
I'm just sick of it. Rich people are the real enemy and they continue to steal and rob us blind and we blame it on the Muslims, the blacks, whoever. People should not be allowed to have more than a basic staple of goods until everyone on this planet is of equal standing. But that will never happen. There's nothing wrong with working and earning and deserving what you get. But that should come after everyone else is taken care of.

I am soooo sick of hearing how 'we' have no money for children's medical care, yet 'we' can bail out a Fortune 50 company that took risks it should have known better than to do.

Privatize the profits, socialize the 'bailout'. Welfare is only for those at the top. Screw everyone else. We're fast approaching a point were more than 50% of the population isn't buying anything that the *don't* need to survive.

Nice try in your attempt to paint "free-market" capitalism as the villain.

Milt Friedman proved--literally, with data--that the Federal Reserve caused the Depression by constricting the money supply. Ben Bernanke has admitted Friedman was right.

The problem wasn't the markets. The recession was caused by speculation--and you just can't legislate good judgment no matter how hard you try.

Also, had the GOVERNMENT not reduced the money supply by about a third of its total value after the 1929 crash, then the market would have corrected itself. But once your GOVERNMENT intervened and tried to take action, it caused a panic which resulted in depositors withdrawing their funds, which only made the economic situation worse.

You pretend to know the facts, but you only show that you haven't researched the topic well enough to understand what really happened. And because you have failed to do that, you offer up the same solution that caused the last depression: to wit, you preach government intervention where absolutely none is needed.

The "free-market" is not the cause. Stupid investors buying into hype and not researching their positions are the ones to blame. It happened with buying on margins in the 20s. It happened again in the past 6 years with Time, Newsweek, et al. extolling the gobs of money to be made in the housing market, an industry where liquidity is not easily achivable if it takes a hit.

Instead of letting the people who jumped in head first take their licks and learn their lessons, you instead desire to save them from themselves. This only encourages more of the same behavior in the future. It's called setting a precedent. Government shouldn't be bailing out any bad business choices, whether for the people or for corporations. Like a trapeeze artist working without a net, if you let the market fix itself people have plenty of incentive to regulate their financial affairs much more carefully.

Ron @ 10:

little bear @ 4:

FBush @ 2:

It doesn't take an economist to understand why its happening.

Voters elected representatives whose only interest is the corporate bottom
line. They elected a commander in chief because they felt that
they could have a beer with him.

With all that's happening across Wall Street, we get video of a president
doing soft shoe at the WH. Or singing parody songs about a traitorous chief of staff.
And on and on and on...

Don't kid yourself - chimpy did not win those 2 elections and the majority of Americans did not want to "have a beer" with an obnoxious AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict.

Just one of many lies that was used to divert attention from the vote fraud.

Even I have made the same error but, it was election fraud, not vote fraud. All in all, I got your point.

There was VOTE FRAUD TOO and it and the lying liars in the MSM (with their false 'beer factor" and "energized vote" memes) made it all possible.

Unregulated, free-market capitalism! Woohoooo!

Please stop it.

Corporate welfare & protectionism, bank & corporate bailouts, fiat currency, market, rate & currency manipulations, heavy taxation + deficit spending & endless wars have nothing to free-market capitalism. Nothing. Literally.

The whole debate about lightly regulated or completely free-markets versus heavily controlled markets to protect the common good is a valid one. But saying that America's economic woes are the result of unfettered free-market capitalism is like saying that the Iraq war is going badly because Democracy is a failure.

Democracy and capitalism are marketing slogans used and abused by a morally and fiscally bankrupt government that is too stupid to know what they actually mean, and too corrupt to care.

FBush @ 9:

Don't kid yourself - chimpy did not win those 2 elections and the majority of Americans did not want to "have a beer" with an obnoxious AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict.

The fact that Bush and his gang of thieves got more than 1% of the vote in
'04 is unbelievable. (One percent being the only segment of the population that benefited from
his policies during the first four years.)

The 2000 was obvious - should never have come down to a 2004. Blame the voters if you want - BUT THEY DID NOT ELECT THE SMIRKING CHIMP.
I know of too many morons who "liked" him more than Kerry.

No doubt there was fraud in Ohio but if we had an informed population, Bush would have never
gotten in in 2000.

Blame the voters all you want - the criminal cabal BEHIND the election with the help of the MSM. Why are you so willing to give them a "free pass"?

Does it make you feel better about your self to blame a faceless mass and pretend to be on the "high ground"?

Deregulation. Plain and simple.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...

And now the banks are begging for government handouts to save them. And the banks are so big, if they fail they swamp other banks and the entire economy. All do to deregulation.

They've privatized gains and socialized losses. You know, because they believe in the sanctity of the free-market.

Charles Hess @ 6:

People who put their money in these risky ventures should be the ones who suffer when they go under. That's free-market capitalism. The Fed buying up bad debt to keep these shady operations solvent is socialism.

no that's fascism

i got apples... 5 cents each. (One thing thats different I think typewriters had cents signs.)

Dave M. @ 16:

The problem wasn't the markets. The recession was caused by speculation --

bubble time, just the markets reorganizing themselves, yes its bad for some, most are suffering under just another boom bust election scam cycle.
this time its the middle classes who are ripe for the plucking by vulture capitalists calling in their 'loans'

and you just can't legislate good judgment no matter how hard you try.

but you can regulate out the worst of the sharks from eating up small people via deceptive practices.
and put in place financial penalties and prison sentences for the worst of the money crooks out there.

but of course the stoopid Retardians got the bust boom cycle wrong, normally you arrange the boom to happen before an election, and the bust after...

Some of us learned about this impending event years ago from people with great foresight and understanding of how money works such Robert Kiyosaki and Mike Maloney and tried to tell people on posting board such as this.

All the Bush methane breathing wing-nuts scoffed and pointed to the great boom Bush helped create as if he were the sole reason for it. Now they are eating crow, but at a premium price.

VegasRage @ 34:

All the Bush methane breathing wing-nuts scoffed and pointed to the great boom Bush helped create as if he were the sole reason for it. Now they are eating crow, but at a premium price.

And they are taking a lot of other people down with them.

little bear @ 22:

FBush @ 9:

Don't kid yourself - chimpy did not win those 2 elections and the majority of Americans did not want to "have a beer" with an obnoxious AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict.

The fact that Bush and his gang of thieves got more than 1% of the vote in
'04 is unbelievable. (One percent being the only segment of the population that benefited from
his policies during the first four years.)

The 2000 was obvious - should never have come down to a 2004. Blame the voters if you want - BUT THEY DID NOT ELECT THE SMIRKING CHIMP.
I know of too many morons who "liked" him more than Kerry.

No doubt there was fraud in Ohio but if we had an informed population, Bush would have never
gotten in in 2000.

Blame the voters all you want - the criminal cabal BEHIND the election with the help of the MSM. Why are you so willing to give them a "free pass"?

Does it make you feel better about your self to blame a faceless mass and pretend to be on the "high ground"?

That "faceless mass" was more than 50% of the population that couldn't separate spin from
the facts about what has been happening to our economy for eight years.
The MSM and its DC Cocktail Circuit is certainly to blame for the pass that Bush has gotten.

But there were just tooooooooooooo many signs that Bush was unfit for the office for the voting public to be given a pass for casting even a SINGLE vote for this buffoon.

ep3 @ 12:

I want to know why we've had this continuous system of various ponzi schemes of the last 20 years?
First the S&L crisis. Money was dumped in fake banks with hopes of making a quick buck.
Then the stock market.

"The next bubble: Priming the markets for tomorrow's big crash" by ...
There are a number of plausible candidates for the next bubble, but only a few meet all the criteria. Health care must expand to meet the needs of the aging ...
www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908

little bear @ 18:

Ron @ 10:

little bear @ 4:

FBush @ 2:

Don't kid yourself - chimpy did not win those 2 elections and the majority of Americans did not want to "have a beer" with an obnoxious AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict.

Just one of many lies that was used to divert attention from the vote fraud.

Even I have made the same error but, it was election fraud, not vote fraud. All in all, I got your point.

There was VOTE FRAUD TOO and it and the lying liars in the MSM (with their false 'beer factor" and "energized vote" memes) made it all possible.

Vote fraud is when the voter tries to vote illegally, election fraud is when the results of the votes are changed illegally.

I personaly don't invest in my companies 401k program. Since the 80's, what underlying value has driven the stock market to it's current value? Me thinks none. Nothing but speculation. The price being paid for stocks cannot continue to go up indefinately. The baby boomers are pretty much the only ones investing in their 401k's. My kids can't. They don't get paid enough. As more and more boomers are let go, retire, die, whatever, where will the money come from to keep values where they are? Once the boomers realize you can't eat stock, you can't swallow it to control blood pressure, it won't heat your home, then what? Returns are so low the only real option is to sell it. To whom? I think inflation plays into this in a huge way also. If prices rise 10% a year, where does that money come from? The company I work for does not give out raises anywhere near that level. So, with everything so damned expensive this will put even MORE preasure on people to NOT put money in their 401K's.

Dave M. fuck the "free market" and fuck you. I am sick and tired of this crap. Capitalism will eat everyone and every thing until there is nothing left without serious government regulation. I don't like living in a world where greed is the god that everyone is supposed to idealize. Countries are formed to set the rules for business and the most greedy among us are all ways trying to eliminate or just break those rules. You want no rules on business because you think you will be one of the ruling elite. Greed is not good.

In the meantime, Fbush, the criminals keep getting away with the looting and destroy our constitutional government so that they won't be held accountable (and can keep looting).

And you get to say, "I told you so" - great answer to a complex problem.

The public, fortunately, doesn't understand how bad the situation is. If it did, we might have a real panic on our hands.

RayC Hussein @ 46:

Dave M. fuck the "free market" and fuck you. I am sick and tired of this crap. Capitalism will eat everyone and every thing until there is nothing left without serious government regulation. I don't like living in a world where greed is the god that everyone is supposed to idealize. Countries are formed to set the rules for business and the most greedy among us are all ways trying to eliminate or just break those rules. You want no rules on business because you think you will be one of the ruling elite. Greed is not good.

Thinking the very economic forces that create these economic problems will somehow "solve" them is the definition of insanity - keep give dave the business - the ignorant rantings of that crowd need to be pounced on.

tyree @ 49:

takeing my money out of the bank!

gold is around $1000 oz, in the early 80s it reached an all time high of $850 oz which is aprox $2200 in current inflation adjusted dollars.
it can / could / maybe / will go higher, if things get worse than 1981.

FBush @ 2:

It doesn't take an economist to understand why its happening.

Voters elected representatives whose only interest is the corporate bottom
line. They elected a commander in chief because they felt that
they could have a beer with him.

With all that's happening across Wall Street, we get video of a president
doing soft shoe at the WH. Or singing parody songs about a traitorous chief of staff.
And on and on and on...

Hind-sight is 20/20 - too bad your only getting a good look at your own ass!

We were screaming about that problem long before we got to this point...so to bring it up now = too little too late!

Now we need to fight the powers that be so we can stop their corporate greed and their BS "freemarket" dealings.

Unfortunately people voting for the guy they would like to have a beer with is nothing new. We live in a country of apathetic nincompoops who care more about their pocketbook then who is leading our country and our economy. Look it took most people loosing their homes before we started see a real turn out at the polls.

that's why I love when I hear some idiot say "America is the greatest country in the world!" - and I ask "what have we been doing lately that is so great?" - and nobody can give me an answer, they usually just get mad that I would have the balls to ask such a question about America! Sorry people, I am a realist and I do not lie to myself about the kind of people we have in this country. A lot of us a good hard working people who pay attention to politics because we want the world to be a better place...but far more of us couldn't care less!

L.A. Confidential @ 50:

The public, fortunately, doesn't understand how bad the situation is. If it did, we might have a real panic on our hands.

They understand what is going on but it is more than denial, it is general helplessness based on sloth.
The G.P. want to believe that the 1/3 of the population that vote in elections are putting sound representatives in office to care for the interest of the 2/3 that would rather drink a beer or smoke a joint than vote for their own interst.
They know but are too busy on their personal path to self destruction to care what the future will be for their kids..........generally speaking of course.

Radically Moderate @ 58:

L.A. Confidential @ 50:

The public, fortunately, doesn't understand how bad the situation is. If it did, we might have a real panic on our hands.

They understand what is going on but it is more than denial, it is general helplessness based on sloth.
The G.P. want to believe that the 1/3 of the population that vote in elections are putting sound representatives in office to care for the interest of the 2/3 that would rather drink a beer or smoke a joint than vote for their own interst.
They know but are too busy on their personal path to self destruction to care what the future will be for their kids..........generally speaking of course.

I would be interested to know how many US citizens are disenfranchised from voting due to not being able to register,
lack of suitable ID, 2nd class felon citizen, or scared away from voting stations.
being a British citizen, LPR in the US and soon to be a US citizen,
I find the 'felon' idea and system ridiculous and detestable beyond belief, unworthy of a modern democracy.

Krugman is dead wrong!

If the economy needs stimulating; give it to the common people,not the banks.

No money for billionaires!

Very well said!
ep3 @ 12:

I want to know why we've had this continuous system of various ponzi schemes of the last 20 years?
First the S&L crisis. Money was dumped in fake banks with hopes of making a quick buck.
Then the stock market. All you had to do was dump every bit of your life savings and any equity you had in your house into the stock market and kick back and make 80%. Then the housing mess where you bought and sold your home overnite to make a quick buck.
This all reminds me of the Enron mess. Those guys took money and moved it around to different places and each time the money stopped at a certain place, the investment value went up. They created these shell companies that promised outrageous returns and as along as the money was still moving from one place to another, fake riches were being created on top of the new wealth that was chasing these investments. As long as they were one step ahead of the investigators, they were safe.
I'm sorry if that doesn't make total sense. But to me, it just seems like rich people are able to con us into investing our hard earned dollars into various "investments" that promise great wealth with very little effort and then these "bubbles" are created that pop and the only people that are hurt from the "pop" are the common folks like us because we were told "just invest your money, don't ask questions, it's stupid not to invest, you're losing out, dump all your wealth". So we dump everything we have and they sell us this piece of paper that really is of no value for all our money and they take that money and keep it and the only way you survive is by finding someone more stupid than you to keep selling this piece of paper to.
So any wealth that was earned and created by 50 years of hard work and union wages in the mid 1900s is being taken back by the rich people thru these crazy schemes.
I'm just sick of it. Rich people are the real enemy and they continue to steal and rob us blind and we blame it on the Muslims, the blacks, whoever. People should not be allowed to have more than a basic staple of goods until everyone on this planet is of equal standing. But that will never happen. There's nothing wrong with working and earning and deserving what you get. But that should come after everyone else is taken care of.

ferrofluid @ 60:

Radically Moderate @ 58:

L.A. Confidential @ 50:

The public, fortunately, doesn't understand how bad the situation is. If it did, we might have a real panic on our hands.

They understand what is going on but it is more than denial, it is general helplessness based on sloth.
The G.P. want to believe that the 1/3 of the population that vote in elections are putting sound representatives in office to care for the interest of the 2/3 that would rather drink a beer or smoke a joint than vote for their own interst.
They know but are too busy on their personal path to self destruction to care what the future will be for their kids..........generally speaking of course.

You offer many categories there that together might add up to 3-5%.
My post at#58 was more of a dope slap to those who could get involved with maintaining their station in life for themselves and their kids but would rather crash on the couch and watch reruns of Gilligans Island.

I would be interested to know how many US citizens are disenfranchised from voting due to not being able to register,
lack of suitable ID, 2nd class felon citizen, or scared away from voting stations.
being a British citizen, LPR in the US and soon to be a US citizen,
I find the 'felon' idea and system ridiculous and detestable beyond belief, unworthy of a modern democracy.

tyree @ 65:

ferrofluid @ 54:

tyree @ 49:

takeing my money out of the bank!

gold is around $1000 oz, in the early 80s it reached an all time high of $850 oz which is aprox $2200 in current inflation adjusted dollars.
it can / could / maybe / will go higher, if things get worse than 1981.

i got a little story to tell thats true! in 64 my brother and i with a few friends climbed the superstition mountains in arizona , looking for the lost dutchmans gold mine, it was mostly just for a lark, after we came down we spotted an old prospector setting in an old rocking chair by a small mine shaft, we walked over to him ,thier was a sighn over the entrence it said BLUE BIRD GOLD MINE! WE GOT INTO A CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND ASKED IS THIER REALLY GOLD IN THAT MINE? HELL YES HE REPLIED , PUZZELED WHY HE WAS JUST SETTING THERE rocking in that chair i asked well why arent you busy digging that gold out , he spit and said we,ll sonny i can get that gold out now and its only 35 dollars an ounce here , or i can get it out and smuggle that gold into mexico and take a chance of getting sent to prison if i get caught, he spit again smiled and said or i can set here on my ass and some day that golds going to be worth 800 dollars an ounce!!we all laughed and thought he.d been setting in the sun to long, well guess he knew something we didnt know!!!!!!!!!like nixon would send henry kissinger to the mid east and encourage the mid east countrys to form an oil cartell so that they could strangle us with thier power to control oil, before kissinger did that a loaf of bread was 25cents and gas was cheap a yr later bread was a dollar , so nixon was the prick who first fucked us good!!!!!!

Great story Tyree. You have had some great adventures in your life.
I've always maintained that the adventure is in the journey rather than the destination.
Of course returning to tell the tail counts for something too.

I agree with those who correctly point out that it isn't deregulation but regulation that caused this crisis. The Feds being the most culpable back in the Great Depression and now.

I mean what do you think is going on now. The banks made bad business decisions and they should go bankrupt. But the Feds, a regulatory body, is bailing them out. Of course you will hear the both Democrats and Republicans will talk about protecting the homeowners, but that is code for the lenders/bankers.

People need to start to think for themselves. I challenge anyone to name one regulation that could have prevented this crisis...just one...if deregulation is the culprit.