“Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.”

Here we go again. At least we’re hearing it more.

Few and far between are the times that I disagree with Krugman.

He’s brilliant!

why shouldnt we get relief from college loans, if homeowners are getting relief from bad loans that they and the banks knowingly made. when college costs 48,000 dollars a year, there arent many people who can afford it without loans, and we dont get to shop around for the best rate. no one knows better than a bank, who can afford a mortgage and who cant. the banks knowingly made those bad loans. and the people who were taking them were over reaching financially for houses they couldnt afford, and the banks should have told them that. we should NOT bail them out.

This is the same financial media I said back in 03 would come out at some point with ‘no one saw this coming’, as if it was unavoidable and caught everyone by surprise.

I seem to get the message, “we are only interested in helping banks.” EVERYONE involved is in some way responsible (banks and borrowers— and gov’t), but if you’re a “small fish”, too f#$king bad– sucker.

Katrina victims may have to repay money
Contractor says it rushed to deliver aid; agency to collect overpayments
NEW ORLEANS - Imagine that your home was reduced to mold-covered wood framing by Hurricane Katrina. Desperate for money to rebuild, you engage in a frustrating bureaucratic process, and after months of living in a government provided-trailer that gives off formaldehyde fumes you finally win a federal grant.

Then a collector announces that you have to pay back thousands of dollars.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23859898/

Too bad those poor Katrina victims weren’t a different colour. Maybe they would have actually received help.

I like how Krugman reminds folks that Greenspan had a part on this mess. It isn’t as if Greenspan didn’t know that on a word he could shake the markets, yet he gave terrible advice to people. Atrios called it the day Greenspan said it. These folks are supposed to be the best and the brightest and this is what they did to the country. No, you can’t take taxpayer money to socialize Wallstreet’s ineptitude while you let the people affected by this crisis twist in the wind.

The problem isn’t as simple as people borrowing more than they should have. In many cases they were actively pushed into bad deals, and the system was set up to encourage it.

this link does a great job explaining it (warning, it does say the “F” word once or twice). And no, you don’t have to log into google to view it…

http://docs.google.com/TeamPre....._0cdjsr4fn

[[[4 L.A. Confidential Says]]]: This is the same financial media I said back in 03 would come out at some point with ‘no one saw this coming’, as if it was unavoidable and caught everyone by surprise.

===>>>I had been saying for years (pointing out to people), you can’t go online without ads like, “$600,000 for $893 a month–click here” popping up everywhere (REMEMBER??). What did they/anyone/you expect? Look at modern N. American society: buy now, pay later. And they tell you “keep shopping”.

Yes, that’s all well and good. But let’s not forget that our main priority is ALWAYS AND FOREVER DE-REGULATION, ANTI-REGULATORY TRICKERY, AND PRIVATIZATION!!!:

In Treasury Plan, a Reluctant Eye Over Wall Street

By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ and FLOYD NORRIS, March 30, 2008, The New York Times

The Bush administration is proposing the broadest overhaul of Wall Street regulation since the Great Depression. But the plan, to be unveiled on Monday, has its genesis in a yearlong effort to limit Washington’s role in the market…

…The regulatory umbrella created in the 1930s would grow wider, with power concentrated in fewer agencies. But that authority would be limited, doing virtually nothing to regulate the many new financial products whose unwise use has been a culprit in the current financial crisis.

The plan hands vast new authority to the Federal Reserve, essentially formalizing what has been an improvised process over the last three weeks. But some fear that the central bank’s role in creating the current mess will undercut its ability to clean it up.

All the checks and balances in the plan reflect the mindset of its architect, Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., who came to Washington after a long career on Wall Street. He has worried that any effort to substantially tighten regulation could hamper the ability of American markets to compete with foreign rivals, though he has intervened in the mortgage crisis to try to persuade banks to offer concessions to some troubled borrowers

…“The Fed oversaw this meltdown,” said Michael Greenberger, a law professor at the University of Maryland who was a senior official of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission during the Clinton administration. “This is the equivalent of the builders of the Maginot line giving lessons on defense.”…

mary pomponi @ 3:

why shouldnt we get relief from college loans, if homeowners are getting relief from bad loans that they and the banks knowingly made. when college costs 48,000 dollars a year, there arent many people who can afford it without loans, and we dont get to shop around for the best rate. no one knows better than a bank, who can afford a mortgage and who cant. the banks knowingly made those bad loans. and the people who were taking them were over reaching financially for houses they couldnt afford, and the banks should have told them that. we should NOT bail them out.

That is what brings the economy to a crashing halt. Bailing out people/corporations that should not be bailed out.

Sorry, I dont support passing out tax dollars to people who made bad decisions. I don’t support helping Wall Street or home owners. THis country is already deeply in debt and even under the best possible economic conditions under the Clinton years, we didnt do much for the debt. On top of that we cant randomly add bailouts every x years.

I can’t think of a clip that more perfectly illustrates the difference between conservative and liberal philosophy than this one from today’s “This Week.

I think I know what the Silent means in Silent Patriot. Totally silent about the fact there are four - count ‘em- four liberals against one conservative on this panel. How can this happen when we all know there is no such thing as a liberal media?

5 Edwin Hussein (not a scary black Reverend) Says: I seem to get the message, “we are only interested in helping banks.” EVERYONE involved is in some way responsible (banks and borrowers— and gov’t), but if you’re a “small fish”, too f#$king bad– sucker.

PS (to my own comment) That was the plan all along: prey on human greed. See, they wanna squeeze out every penny; squeeze you dry, by cents. Multiply by 300,000,000 and you’ve got a jackpot.

Krugman always makes sense.

Hey, then why is it that he (And Ezra Klein) never bought the phony populism of Obama?

Because he always makes sense.

Edwin Hussein (not a scary black Reverend) @ 9:

[[[4 L.A. Confidential Says]]]: This is the same financial media I said back in 03 would come out at some point with ‘no one saw this coming’, as if it was unavoidable and caught everyone by surprise.

===>>>I had been saying for years (pointing out to people), you can’t go online without ads like, “$600,000 for $893 a month–click here” popping up everywhere (REMEMBER??). What did they/anyone/you expect? Look at modern N. American society: buy now, pay later. And they tell you “keep shopping”.

You too can live like the millionaires and celebrities you see on TV.

bubba @ 12:

Sorry, I dont support passing out tax dollars to people who made bad decisions. I don’t support helping Wall Street or home owners. THis country is already deeply in debt and even under the best possible economic conditions under the Clinton years, we didnt do much for the debt. On top of that we cant randomly add bailouts every x years.

Exactly. Borrowing money to give to people to help them, isn’t going to help them. It’s like having a credit card maxed out, and the credit card company extending your credit. It doesn’t help you. If you had a $2000 limit that is maxed, and they give you a new $4000 limit, what does that do? NOTHING. If people can’t keep their houses, how is throwing money at them going to help? It’s obvious they can’t manage money, or had no business getting the loan in the first place.

Like I been saying since Friday here the next shoe to drop.

NEW YORK - While Wall Street faces the biggest overhaul of its regulatory structure since the Great Depression, analysts are already wondering if the plan to be announced by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson on Monday would help prevent the kind of risky investments that led to the near-collapse of Bear Stearns Cos.

The plan maps out a course for broader oversight of the nation’s financial markets by consolidating power into the Federal Reserve. It will eliminate overlapping state and federal regulators and give the central bank an expanded role in looking at the books of investment banks and brokerages.

Get it?

Dump fiat currency.

Return to a less dangerous and stable money.

L.A. Confidential @ 18:

Like I been saying since Friday here the next shoe to drop.

NEW YORK - While Wall Street faces the biggest overhaul of its regulatory structure since the Great Depression, analysts are already wondering if the plan to be announced by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson on Monday would help prevent the kind of risky investments that led to the near-collapse of Bear Stearns Cos.

The plan maps out a course for broader oversight of the nation’s financial markets by consolidating power into the Federal Reserve. It will eliminate overlapping state and federal regulators and give the central bank an expanded role in looking at the books of investment banks and brokerages.

Get it?

Quite compelling isn’t it? Free market system my ass. If it was truly a free market system, this shit wouldn’t be going down. If your business is losing money and can’t afford to stay in business, free market dictates you go out of business and someone else will take your place. Government mandated, supported, and forgiveable loans are not going to make bad investors better at investing.

Reich began to address the underlying issue here, and that is What Happens Next. What if we DON’T bailout those who will go under because of predatory lending practices? They’ll be homeless, that’s what. Then the Republicans and the “screw you, I’ve got mine” Libertarians will start bitching about how much these people are hurting the economy by going on welfare.

Wait a minute - Will has it right with socializing the bailout and privatizing the profits - that is exactly what is happening - then he makes a clever shift to “why not help everybody” referring to the snookered homeowner; when the analogy would really go to “why not help Lehmann Bros et al?” The troubled investment houses are now making a run on the fed to get what’s left of the socialized bailout funds, hopefully before the little folk can demand action on their behalf as well as the return of consumer protections and proper regulations; ie check out the dismantling of the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 - thanks to Mr. Clinton, sorry to say - but opening the door for Bush’s thieves to carry out the dirty deed.

No, Mr. Krugman. This was no natural disaster; this was a man-made disaster designed to siphon funds from the bottom up.

ConcernedCanuck @ 17:

bubba @ 12:

Sorry, I dont support passing out tax dollars to people who made bad decisions. I don’t support helping Wall Street or home owners. THis country is already deeply in debt and even under the best possible economic conditions under the Clinton years, we didnt do much for the debt. On top of that we cant randomly add bailouts every x years.

Exactly. Borrowing money to give to people to help them, isn’t going to help them. It’s like having a credit card maxed out, and the credit card company extending your credit. It doesn’t help you. If you had a $2000 limit that is maxed, and they give you a new $4000 limit, what does that do? NOTHING. If people can’t keep their houses, how is throwing money at them going to help? It’s obvious they can’t manage money, or had no business getting the loan in the first place.

Bravo, CC. Nice. Are you channeling Mr. Potter today?

“You once called me a frustrated old man. Well, what are you but a frustrated young man?
You come to me begging for my help. Why don’t you go to the riff-raff you love so well? Ask them for help!”

Geez.

Gosh, Bill Clinton and all the so proud Democrats kept telling me how great things were and that stocks were going up and up and up. Then all my tech stocks came crashing down on me. Bill Clinton never told me the tech bubble was going to burst when it did- I had no idea that could ever happen. Damn stockbroker never told me that could happen either and now he’s out of the business, predator that he was, preying on me with aggressive sales tactics- how was I to know? I was totally like a Katrina victim and it was a damn shame.

I want some money from the government too!!! Please Paul Krugman, speak up for me and don’t let me suffer. I had no idea what I was getting in to.

dennis @ 24:

Gosh, Bill Clinton and all the so proud Democrats kept telling me how great things were and that stocks were going up and up and up. Then all my tech stocks came crashing down on me. Bill Clinton never told me the tech bubble was going to burst when it did- I had no idea that could ever happen. Damn stockbroker never told me that could happen either and now he’s out of the business, predator that he was, preying on me with aggressive sales tactics- how was I to know? I was totally like a Katrina victim and it was a damn shame.

I want some money from the government too!!! Please Paul Krugman, speak up for me and don’t let me suffer. I had no idea what I was getting in to.

But the media stood on the sidelines cheering it all on.

If anyone thinks the current mess we are in is bad, just wait a few years.

Can we really trust the ´´feds ´´ to be given more power into the current wall street mess? Giving the feds recent flubs, such as losing ppls private info, losing track of how bad pet food from china was imported , losing track of some medical records of ppl, losing track,, I mean they seem to lose alot of track. Shit even amrtrack managed to stay on track finaly after a bail out a few yrs back.

I fear once the feds get control over every banking co and lending co etc, then they can turn around and decide who gets what when it comes to pay outs to those that were truely f…cked over. And if you dont fit the bill due to race , color, religion, creed? Sorry folks but it happend in Nazi germany in 1938, the goverment took control over the banks,,and decided who got what based on,, yeah,, you guessed it.

What ever happend to bringing those sorry bastards to court and shutting down thier bank accounts? taken property that was brought by ´´fake money´´ made on fake contracts? All of that money just didint dissapear, its somewhere in some CEO and others bank accounts , either there or offshore bank, making massive interest in euro. We cant let a ken lay like deal happen again where NO ONE is held responsible for yrs and those that lost money never recieved a dime from the crooked prick. His wife sights lack of money? comon,,, Do it by the law, you steal , you break the law, you go to jail and pay a fine. I mean, what if someone stole something from wallmarts? think they would say,,oh silly here, have some more to steal,, hell invite your friends too´´! HELL NO!!

Just my thought,,,,,,

Dennis, the Bush apologist, trying to distract from the ruin Bush has brought upon this country.

But lessee, there was how much surplus in the treasury when Clinton left office? And the country is now how much in debt to Communist China??

TypicallyWhiteJohnny2Bad @ 23:

ConcernedCanuck @ 17:

bubba @ 12:

Sorry, I dont support passing out tax dollars to people who made bad decisions. I don’t support helping Wall Street or home owners. THis country is already deeply in debt and even under the best possible economic conditions under the Clinton years, we didnt do much for the debt. On top of that we cant randomly add bailouts every x years.

Exactly. Borrowing money to give to people to help them, isn’t going to help them. It’s like having a credit card maxed out, and the credit card company extending your credit. It doesn’t help you. If you had a $2000 limit that is maxed, and they give you a new $4000 limit, what does that do? NOTHING. If people can’t keep their houses, how is throwing money at them going to help? It’s obvious they can’t manage money, or had no business getting the loan in the first place.

Bravo, CC. Nice. Are you channeling Mr. Potter today?

Geez.

That’s not being Old Man Potter. It’s called throwing good money after bad, and ConcernedCanuck is right on the money.

Completely off topic - KU is going to the final four and I can’t believe I’m excited about it.

Friar Tuck @ 27:

Can we really trust the ´´feds ´´ to be given more power into the current wall street mess? Giving the feds recent flubs, such as losing ppls private info, losing track of how bad pet food from china was imported , losing track of some medical records of ppl, losing track,, I mean they seem to lose alot of track. Shit even amrtrack managed to stay on track finaly after a bail out a few yrs back.

I fear once the feds get control over every banking co and lending co etc, then they can turn around and decide who gets what when it comes to pay outs to those that were truely f…cked over. And if you dont fit the bill due to race , color, religion, creed?
Just my thought,,,,,,

You got it.

It is very telling the Govt would bail out Bear Sterns/Chase.

However, do those of us who paid our mortgages, and sacrificed many times to do so, get a bonus or bail out? I could sure use some of that money back.

It’s like Katrina, and to say oh let people suffer is like saying let those people who made the mistake of staying in New Orleans suffer.

The GOP reply to this is: “And your point is?”

azureblue @ 28:

Dennis, the Bush apologist, trying to distract from the ruin Bush has brought upon this country.

But lessee, there was how much surplus in the treasury when Clinton left office? And the country is now how much in debt to Communist China??

What did Bush do, azureblue? What would and this blog have said if he’d have told those banks and mortgage brokers that they could no longer lend to the weaker credit borrowers, those buying a home for the first time who saw an opportunity to finally realize homeownership? Bravo George Bush? Yeah, we feel bad for those people, but it’s averting disaster so we finally agree with something Bush has done. Well done, George. About time.

Is that how the thread would read? Am I close?

dennis @ 29:

TypicallyWhiteJohnny2Bad @ 23:

ConcernedCanuck @ 17:

bubba @ 12:

Exactly. Borrowing money to give to people to help them, isn’t going to help them. It’s like having a credit card maxed out, and the credit card company extending your credit. It doesn’t help you. If you had a $2000 limit that is maxed, and they give you a new $4000 limit, what does that do? NOTHING. If people can’t keep their houses, how is throwing money at them going to help? It’s obvious they can’t manage money, or had no business getting the loan in the first place.

Bravo, CC. Nice. Are you channeling Mr. Potter today?

Geez.

That’s not being Old Man Potter. It’s called throwing good money after bad, and ConcernedCanuck is right on the money.

Really?? What did Krugman say about “throwing good money after bad”? (Can you say knee jerk?)

It’s not about “bad decisions”…unless you’re talking about the greed of the brokerages and the bundling of that debt into securities. Look, this is and always has been about outright fraud on the lender/investor side.

dennis @ 13:

I can’t think of a clip that more perfectly illustrates the difference between conservative and liberal philosophy than this one from today’s “This Week.

I think I know what the Silent means in Silent Patriot. Totally silent about the fact there are four - count ‘em- four liberals against one conservative on this panel. How can this happen when we all know there is no such thing as a liberal media?

Boo hoo hoo! ABC isn’t like Fox News! No fair! I’m telling Mommy! Give me a break, crybaby. The conservatives were the ones who got us into this mess. Why do we need three of them to defend the indefensible? You got George Will, the smartest conservative available now that Bill Buckley is six feet under. What more do you want?

Let me get this straight: people who lived higher than they could afford, beyond their means, in fancier homes than they should have bought, in fancier cars than they should have bought, should now get a BAIL OUT? It’s madness.

abarts @ 32:

It is very telling the Govt would bail out Bear Sterns/Chase.

However, do those of us who paid our mortgages, and sacrificed many times to do so, get a bonus or bail out? I could sure use some of that money back.

No you’ll pay for misdeeds of deadbeats and banker-lenders.

Here’s a great idea….turn it all over to the Fed.

Wonder how many Dems will go for this train wreck?