Digby excerpts part of MLK’s not very well known speech on Vietnam, you know the war that Bush says Iraq isn’t:
Somehow this madness must cease. We must stop now. I speak as a child of God and brother to the suffering poor of Vietnam. I speak for those whose land is being laid waste, whose homes are being destroyed, whose culture is being subverted. I speak for the poor of America who are paying the double price of smashed hopes at home and death and corruption in Vietnam. I speak as a citizen of the world, for the world as it stands aghast at the path we have taken. I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours.
If we continue, there will be no doubt in my mind and in the mind of the world that we have no honorable intentions in Vietnam. It will become clear that our minimal expectation is to occupy it as an American colony and men will not refrain from thinking that our maximum hope is to goad China into a war so that we may bomb her nuclear installations. If we do not stop our war against the people of Vietnam immediately the world will be left with no other alternative than to see this as some horribly clumsy and deadly game we have decided to play.
The world now demands a maturity of America that we may not be able to achieve. It demands that we admit that we have been wrong from the beginning of our adventure in Vietnam, that we have been detrimental to the life of the Vietnamese people. The situation is one in which we must be ready to turn sharply from our present ways. In order to atone for our sins and errors in Vietnam, we should take the initiative in bringing a halt to this tragic wa…read on
And then she says:
Change a few words and that could have been said today about Iraq, no? It was incendiary at the time, when post WWII America was actually far more reflexively jingoistic than it is today (if you can believe that.)
No Trackbacks To “MLK’s speech on Vietnam sounds a lot like Iraq“
Hits the nail on the head. Too bad that nail wasn’t pointed between someone’s eyes.
Wow. That was kind of spooky.
It will become clear that our minimal expectation is to occupy it as an American colony and men will not refrain from thinking that our maximum hope is to goad China into a war so that we may bomb her nuclear installations.
war is an industry ran by the same people that make the TV shows that YOU watch every night!
they also manufacture the SUV that YOU drive your kids to school in everyday!
they also print the books YOUR kids TRY to read at school!
they also press out plastic democrat candidates the YOU are supporting right now!
[Deleted. The topic is MLK, his thoughts on the war in Vietnam, and how those thoughts relate to the current war in Iraq. We’ve had other threads in the past few days where your line of discussion is on topic- and there are always the Open Threads. I’m deleting, ON SIGHT and without comment, any further comments such as these on this thread. Site Monitor]
The scary thing about all this is that the Soviet Union was trying to reign in the North Vietnamese, to prevent the USA from sparking a general war. Without the Soviet Union, or another superpower, period, Iraq could indeed be occupied for 100 years.
We were doing it then, and we’re doing it today. Of course it’s timely.
And anyone who threatens to radically change the course of our brutal yet profitable (for the select few) neocolonialism is shot down like a dog.
I dont want to sully the incredibly insightful and meaningful speeches and observations that Dr. King gave, and I cannot honestly comment on whether that lone gunman killed him and his death was a result of government involvement, but I can say that two months later, when Kennedy was shot, that his murder was not strictly the work of one gunman, as alleged.
So, obviously, why not King as well?
40 years later, we are in the same shitpot in Iraq as we were 40 years ago in Vietnam.
I think this is still relevant (also posted in another thread).
The American War: The U.S. in Vietnam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LctoUV-tag
Digby does FIRST CLASS WORK. This is a great timely find.
It would be a great and wonderful thing, but very hard, to do for the US invasion/occupation of Iraq what Nicholson Baker did for WWII in his Human Smoke.
the speech is even more powerful when you listen to it.
i first heard it on the radio in january. it oughta be played in every school in america.
Ahhgghhhh… Christ on a crutch… push the fucking button already… none of you fucking care… and i haven’t cigarette in three days.. fuck it… I’m tired of reading this ego-elevating self destructive crap… please someone end it now.
bullfrog @ 12:
Thanks for the link.
I do find some hope in this comparison. Though many have decried the lack of the huge protests seen during the Vietnam War, The Iraq War was protested even before it began. It has, thus far, resulted in far less U.S. casualties (and possibly less civilian casualties) than Vietnam. Mostly though, after five years in Vietnam the U.S. drastically escalated its commitment of troops; after five years in Iraq, such escalation appears unthinkable - as does a draft.
In ‘04, when King’s anti-war speeches were making the campaign rounds, I tried to re-create King’s famous Vietnam speech, substituting “Vietnam” with him saying “Iraq” by splicing together some audio clips.
I found plenty of clips of him saying “I”, but could find no audio of him saying “Rack” or “Rock”. I searched text of his speeches for words like “Little Rock” or “crack“, but found nothing.
If anyone else has some usable audio that would allow me to do this, I’d love to give it another try.
I’m not religious by any stretch, but Jesus, God Damn America!
Dr. King perceptively noted in his Beyond Vietnam speech that “Immediate steps [should be ] taken to prevent other battlegrounds in southeast Asia…” and that the United States should “set a date on which we will remove ALL [my emphasis] foreign troops from Vietnam…” Contrast Dr. King’s powerful recommendations with Barack Obama’s tepid phased [not immediate] withdrawal of troops from Iraq along with his desire to leave “some troops” in the region which in reality would mean leaving behind 40,000 to 60,000 troops in the region [along with hundreds of thousands of civilian contractors] which will do nothing to mollify the fears of the Iraqis that those troops could then be sent back into their country, where they could once again wreak death and destruction upon the Iraqi people.
It is quite likely that if Dr. King were alive today he would see right through the gossamer like substance of Barack Obama, who bedazzles his supporters with words like hope and change, which do nothing to hide the emptiness of his rhetoric. Martin Luther King Jr. indeed spoke truth to power while Obama hopes that people will not closely examine the positions that he has taken which will reveal how truly shallow his candidacy has become, since his campaign is based on saying little of substance while hoping that his oratory and charisma will be enough to elevate him to the presidency.
Bring those troops home-alive and in one piece-now.
Link to the speach WITH audio.
http://www.americanrhetoric.co.....ilence.htm
” The war in Vietnam is but a symptom of a far deeper malady within the American spirit, and if we ignore this sobering reality…and if we ignore this sobering reality, we will find ourselves organizing “clergy and laymen concerned” committees for the next generation. They will be concerned about Guatemala and Peru. They will be concerned about Thailand and Cambodia. They will be concerned about Mozambique and South Africa. We will be marching for these and a dozen other names and attending rallies without end, unless there is a significant and profound change in American life and policy…”
“A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast of poverty and wealth. With righteous indignation, it will look across the seas and see individual capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa, and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries, and say, “This is not just.” It will look at our alliance with the landed gentry of South America and say, “This is not just.” The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just…”
“These are revolutionary times. All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression, and out of the wounds of a frail world, new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the land are rising up as never before. The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light. We in the West must support these revolutions…”
I brought this speech’s congruencies up several years ago on MLK and it received no attention.
fiver @ 16:
the protest is happening online, worldwide. it’s far bigger than anything organized in the sixties. it had to be, in order to rise to our current challenges.
as surely as america’s fascist take over was (nearly) achieved out of view, so to will america’s redemption.
at least, that’s just my guess.
There is truly only one difference between the two wars (Nam/Iraq) and that difference is spelled DRAFT.
Heads up for the big demonstration in Iraq next Wednesday:
http://therealnews.com/web/ind.....sview=item
It will be very interesting to see how (or even IF) the MSM covers this. They’re expecting a million people to be in the streets of Iraq calling for an end to the U.S. occupation.
I’m sure the MSM newsrooms are already working on a way to spin it.
Abbybwood @ 34:
Or … Totally ignore it like they seem to do about just about everything about this war.
Why did America go to Vietnam? Iraq?
Oil.
Mr. King’s fatal flaw was that he was a dreamer.
The strong have always devoured the weak. Hard, cold, brutal fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
The meek shall inherit nothing.
Erroll @ 21:
One problem with your argument is Dr. King wasn’t running for president.
J>S> @ 39:
LAO…. :)
[Deleted. Sorry, people, this is going off topic. Site Monitor]
Agenda ,smenda..your the one with the obvious agenda here…
Blacks don’t think of Abraham Lincoln as a saint and they have a point. He wasn’t. Abraham Lincoln had a premonition much stronger then King he was going to be killed and told many people. King just knew many people hated him for his words and speculated he would get it out loud. Does that make them both Saints?
It makes them exactly what they were..
To even bring this all up shows that you don’t understand the system. White or black the little man doesn’t run it. Where do you think all those campaign dollars come from? Poor people! You think Obama isn’t already bought and paid for..get real!
Want to really change the system, change where the money comes from. This isn’t a black and white issue whatsoever. Your just another “dsinformation service” keeping what needs to be changed from being changed by always confusing the REAL basic issues…
J>S> @ 39:
Your statement does not deter from what I had said, which is that King had the courage to speak out against the Vietnam War while Obama, this alleged agent of hope and change, has failed to call for the immediate and total withdrawal of troops from that abattoir in Iraq. By not doing that, he ensures that more Americans will return to this country in coffins and even more of them will wind up in Walter Reed Army hospital and Betheseda Naval Hospital and the many VA hospitals across this country maimed and crippled and disfigured and dismembered. But that bit of logic would appear to be lost upon the many thousands of Obamamaniacs.
There is one candidate who is calling for all the troops to be returned from that slaughterhouse as soon as possible and that is Ralph Nader. But the last thing that Obama and Clinton and McCain would want to see happen is for Nader to be allowed to participate in the presidential debates this summer. After all. the Democrats and the Republicans agreed with the networks and the cable stations that Nader’s voice would not be heard in the summer of 2000. What supporters of Obama and Clinton can never explain is how they can claim that the United States is a democracy when the only voices that are allowed to be heard every four years belong to a Democrat or a Republican. Undoubtedly the citizens of America will once again see and hear only from a Democrat and a Republican. One would think that Obama’s followers would be brimming with confidence if their candidate were to debate Nader this summer. But they would be terrified at that prospect, since they probably realize that Nader would expose the corporately owned Obama and Clinton and McCain, for the frauds that they are.
Isn’t it funny how all history is relevant; it’s always been the rich who lie while the poor fight and die. You’ll never hear about the Romney boys or the bush (deliberately lowercased out of disrespect) daughters serving our armed forces. We all know that they are taught to go to school while some poor schmuck protects their ealth and assets. Five hundred years ago, Columbus and his crew “offed” the Arawaks, four hundred years ago were the inquisitions, the witch trials were only two hundred years ago, and today we have the privileged rich pounding the war drum for the poor to fight.
When will we stop it, when will we stop allowing them to flood our society with this message of fear and hate! What will it take for us to come together and stop exterminating other races and religions because OUR EMPERORS feel that they are of inferior composition. When will we stop being the beaten and battered masses and fight back with opinion and nonviolent direct action. We are all brothers and sisters in life, trying to survive peacefully on this beautiful floating rock. As society evolves ( unfortunately, i forsee us devolving back into sludge), who wouldn’t love to see only two types of people; those who are for peace, and those who are against it! Can’t you see our EMPERORS ostricising themselves already! In only 7 years, they’ve managed to get the entire world to LOATHE our very existance. I just don’t want to be lumped into their category!
I can’t believe that these “conspiracy theorists” haven’t had their posts purged by the sitemonitors!
Spooky. Replace Vietnam with Iraq and China with Iran.
(trying to be patient)
Anyone who hasn’t heard that speech has been hiding under a rock.
It’s a thorough indictment of the entire War-As-A-Way-Of-Doing-Business that has been the backbone of American Capitalism since the US stole California etc from Mexico over 150 years ago.
Even World War Two (considered by most “liberals” and “progressives” to have been a “good war”) was manufactured by the American Fascists - they invested in Hitler, paid for his private armies, set up his banking schemes, invested in the very coal fields in Poland that the Nazis invaded, siezed, and turned into the Labor & Death Camps at Auschwitz, mining the ore that turned into the metals for the Nazi War Machine.
Their names? George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush ..
Got it?
And who was part of the US rush to join World War One?
Samuel Prescott Bush.
Anyone discern a pattern here?
Just because your high school & college education taught you NOTHING about the real history of your own country is no excuse for your ignorance.
Read Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States.”
Read Smedley Butler’s “War Is A Racket.”
Read Tarpley’s “Unauthorized Biography of George Bush.”
Your education is YOUR responsibility.
oops .. forgot “Brown & Root” in Vietnam ..
They’re the Texas Construction Company that both benefitted from and contributed to LBJ’s rise to power in Texas and knew where all his “skeletons were buried.”
And profitted mightily from the VietNam War when LBJ became Pres after that fateful day in Dallas (and who orchestrated that?).
“Brown and Root” are the “BR” in Halliburton’s “KBR” in Iraq.
And who is the “K” in “KBR”?
“Kellogg” .. the Military Contracting Subdivision of the Bush Crime Family Empire - acquired in the 1920’s and sold to Halliburton in the late ’90s, thus consolidating two of the major competing Military Contracting Firms.
This country is OWNED by the Military Industrial Complex.
That is what King was lashing out about.
And that’s what got him killed.
MountainMan23 @ 37:
[I could work hard to go off on tangents, too, TBT, but this thread isn’t about the effect of the
spurstirrup at the Battle of Tours, either. As stated in the edit of your first comment on this thread, there are other threads on which you can discuss your theory all you’d like. Site Monitor]Truth B Told @ 4:
[Deleted. There are always the open threads. Site Monitor]
Let’s also try and remember the seeds that MLK planted. Like with my daughter. I never noticed it before. It has been there for a while. This picture of Martin Luther King Jr on our fridge door. I hardly look at the fridge door, but there it was. Amongst all the fridge magnets and numbers and pictures of the kids. But what made me stop was that the picture was of a white Martin Luther King Jr. My young daughter made this great man white. And I couldn’t be prouder. I think he would be proud. I know she will continue to live his dream. http://angryafrican.net/2008/0.....-is-white/
“Not very well known?” Really?!
There is a great discussion about the hypocrisy of the right when it comes to Reverend Wright here: