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Every week on The Chris Matthews Show, Matthews has a segment where he asks his panel of pundits to “Tell Me Something I Don’t Know.” This week, Andrew Sullivan of The Atlantic spoke as bluntly as any talking head has done since Bush/Cheney took office:
The latest revelations on the torture front show—the memo from John Yoo—as well as revelations from Phillippe Sands’ book, mean that Donald Rumsfeld, David Addington and John Yoo should not leave the United States any time soon. They will be at some point indicted for war crimes. They deserve to be.
Damn straight. Phillippe Sands has an article in this month’s Vanity Fair highlighting aspects of his book, which comes out next month.
Filed Under: Donald Rumsfeld, Hardball/Chris Matthews, Sunday Morning Talk Shows, Torture, White House
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He neglected to mention Alberto Gonzales in that group.
eye for an eye
Well, I will give Sullivan credit. It is a start. My list of war criminals is much, much longer though.
then wouldn’t bush and cheney be included in that list too since they must have signed off on this?
Let’s add Nancy Pelosi for aiding and abetting…
Wish I could have seen some more of Matthew’s reaction to it. Weird how scripts can play out… ‘after this, the big question, instead of that piddling little thing that guy just mentioned…’
The whole U.S. Middle Eastern policy is certainly immoral, and in Central Asia, we are engaged in war crimes in Afghanistan, and in Iraq we are engaged in a genocide on a scale not seen in American history since the 19th Century. Hang the lot of them, (after a fair trial, of course) I say!
chervilant @ 5:
I agree. There is no in between in this. To use Bush’s phrase, you’re either with us or your with the war criminals. From the looks of things, Nancy and many others are backing the war criminals.
I talked to my Christian friend who asked “Why shouldn’t the US torture an enemy of the state?”
I said, one word, “Jesus”!
He said nothing more.
Sullivan or anyone else can call them war criminals, stooges, or complete buffoons, but nothing will ever be done about it. Ever.
Where were you when Mr. Bush was cheating his way into the White House, Mr. Sullivan? How convenient for you to be spouting off now. I find this little man disgraceful even if what he is saying (now) is true.
General_Rennenkampf @ 7:
As much as I understand this impulse, why don’t we start moving our thinking toward a more civilized view? How about “jail them for life without parole, after a fair trial?
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 9:
Amen
Joe O. @ 8:
You’re wrong. Pelosi can’t do anything until the American people get behind her. I’m not talking the few hundred who visit Crooks and Liars or the so-called-liberals. I’m talking about the Joe-Six-Packs. With her fragile minority and the way the stupid American public thinks/the way the Republicans are so successful as playing the politics of fear and stupidity, the Dems would be gone in one quick shot if they tried to impeach Bush. Don’t let you beliefs cloud your judgment. The stupid Americans are still in charge. If you need any proof, just watch how the media treats Democrats vs how they treat Republicans. The Republicans have to be caught with their pants down with schoolchildren before they get noticed. The press actively seek out any weakness in the DEMS much like the way Britney Spears is hounded.
sdfilter @ 12:
Death is a release…an ending of suffering….I want these monsters kept alive (even going as far as unnatural means) as long as possible so that their egos can scream in pain for being locked in cold cells, as far from free air and sunlight as possible. They don’t deserve Death’s grace!
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 14:
Pelosi is in the same “category” as the Repubs. Rich upperclass elite that could care less about you or anyone else except her rich buddies. She hasn’t even paid lip service to anything. Reid as well. Both complicit co-conspirators with the Bush Regime.
Sullivan is completely right when he says they deserve to be indicted for war crimes. He’s delusional when he says they will be. Who would be doing the indicting? There is nobody in Bush’s administration who has either the values or the moral courage to do that, and there is virtually no sentiment either in Congress or in the mainstream media to push the issue, either.
For once he is demonstrating a little insight and truth. Hey Andrew, you wanted that gang of war criminals in, remember?
Maybe their supporters should face justice too.
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 9:
Isn’t it ironic? How supposed Christians that claim to live by the teachings of Jesus Christ have themselves turned into the very thing that Christ stood up against. They have knowingly or unknowingly turned into their very own version of Pontius Pilate and just like Pilate they approvingly support the actions of the Emperor. If Bush or his underlings were to proclaim that Crucifixion where to be used at Gitmo they would gladly support its use.
fuck andrew sullivan, he has been attacking the democrats for years, now he has suddenly woken up ?
I disagree with those who say nothing will be done. These facts are coming out now and will continue to come out as they dig deeper and have some oversight, which is what was missing for the first 6 years. Plus the fact that so much information has been hidden in this administration.
If you feel pissed about what you are reading and hearing about these scoundrels, so is everyone one else (except perhaps the Moron Factor of 24 percent).
This war is effecting the economy, the economy is what every person understands when he can’t buy groceries or gas etc. and has to start doing without. THAT will break the huge cloud of lethargy and apathy that has strangled Americans for so long, they “were” comfortable. Take away that comfort and see how things go. Hunger and want can overthrow governments.
Look for a revolution coming to a town near you.
Sullivan remains as delusional as ever. The question I have is what qualifies someone to be a “pundit”. They seem to have even less accountability for their comments than politicians… or bloggers.
Joe O. @ 19:
So Bush is the anti-christ?
seth @ 4:
Phillippe Sands said the very same thing yesterday on Democracy Now!, saying that he believed that the decision to approve torture in Guantanamo Bay was done at the very top. This being the case, this begs the question why the current supine congress, the one that was supposed to bring the occupation to an end, has not brought forth impeachment proceedings against Bush as well as Cheney. It is also long past the point that the United States join the International Criminal Court so that people like Bush and Cheney can stand trial in The Hague for war crimes, crimes against peace, and crimes against humanity.
Verdillac @ 15:
sdfilter @ 12:
I believe that justice should be proportional. For the Iraqi’s and Afghans’s sake, we should give them the same punishment they so willingly inflicted on others. That goes for the Abu Ghraib people, and the Haditha massacre perpetrators as well. The Bush Administration not only broke Nuremberg, they took a crap on the shards.
ah, Sully…
the tragedy here is that you can’t always be like this. sure as shit, ten minutes from now you’ll Scratch Your Arse and more crap will fall out.
still, better than nothing, though. your rehabilitation will be easier than most.
*kidding!* (…well, kinda…)
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 14:
Well, I can’t argue with you there from that perspective about the stupid people because that obviously is the case. I’ve never been one to make excuses for any politician no matter who they are and Nancy Pelosi is no exception. I simply call them as I see them given the moment and at this moment that is the way I see it. If Pelosi is able to do something later on against these war criminals then so be it. I will support her in her efforts.
Organic George @ 23:
As odd as it may sound, I do know some people that are convinced that he is.
Joe O. @ 28:
You have to believe in that garbage to begin with to make the statement.
The biggest danger to mankind is his belief that some great power up in the sky has something to do with mans misfortunes. The bible was written at a time when there was no science good enough to explain anything so stories were created. Those stories were created by the same people who thought the earth was flat and that all the other visible things in the sky revolved around the earth.
Need I go on.
Glad he said it, but he deprives the statement of much of its gravity by smiling.
What’s there to smile about, Andrew? I’d really like to know.
Will ’someone’ please come to the aid of our country?
♣Bangkok Bob♠ @ 29:
Sure…but the Jews had a monarchy when my ancestors still covered themselves in skins and worshiped Odin. The Jewish Kingdoms, however, were a tiny little blip in the geopolitics of the time…..
And due to Theodosius II converting most of Europe to the teachings of a Jew named Joshua son of Joseph got blown way the hell out of proportion. It’s like some future religion based on Miao beliefs and the Miao are somehow presumed superior by the dominant belief, despite not even the Vietnamese and the PRC giving a damn.
So, I can definitely as a student of history get a little antsy whenever people presume the Bible and its authors would have be signficant without Theodosius II and his megalomanical greed.
Joe O. @ 3:
Yeah…MUCH longer…the entire GOP, and a few Dems to boot.
henry walace @ 31:
You must be over 55 years old to remember that … LOL
♣Bangkok Bob♠ @ 29:
OK, I’m clear on the absolute, unrefutable fact that Earth is only 6,000 years old (give or take a few minutes). But that doesn’t explain the paradox of where John McCain was before that.
CafeenMan @ 35:
In the beginning, john created … blah blah blah.
♣Bangkok Bob♠ @ 34:
Yes Bob, well ove 55 and I’ve been waiting a long time. lol
Joe O. @ 19:
Here’s what Eugene Debs said a century ago:
henry walace @ 37:
Typing classes and Palmer Method handwriting. Yep, I’m older than sand (71) and get a kick out of how cock-sure some people are of many things when their sprouts.
I watch with great sadness what has become of our country and much of the world.
I moved here to live amongst people who smile easily and eat mostly vegetable (and maybe an insect of two LOL)
And this is some sort of revelation? Where has this ass-hat been for the last seven years?
I knew ‘ol Andrew had a liberal inside him, screaming to get out.
Seriously, let’s give credit where credit is due: Sullivan may be conservative ‘in nature’ but he has evinces a strong, un-compromised moral compass.
Robert
chuck @ 30:
Gravitas in Corporate Media is where you can find it. Cherish it even when it is not perfect.
Glenn Greenwald comments here about the number of times various topics have been mentioned recently in the media.
“Yoo and torture” at 102
“Obama and bowling” at 1,043
So on and so forth.
The Constitution is in shreds and people are worried about Obama’s bowling score or his lapel pin.
That Pinochet was indicted in Spain is an indication to me that civilization still has outposts which, if I were Bushco, I would be wary of visiting.
There is no limitation in statute for capital offenses.