Considering last night’s debate, I’m not entirely unsympathetic to Charlie Gibson’s and George Stephanopoulos’ challenge. Clinton and Obama agree on most policy issues, so the hosts’ task was to focus on areas of disagreement in order to create some kind of television-worthy conflict. Regrettably, that’s precisely what Gibson and Stephanopoulos get paid to do.
But the result was as dull as it was pointless, with a discussion that tells us nothing about the candidates, their visions, or their ability to govern. E&P’s Greg Mitchell called it “perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate in years.” The Washington Post’s Tom Shales called it “step downward for network news,” and noted that the moderators delivered “shoddy, despicable performances.” Will Bunch noted, “Quickly, a word to any and all of my fellow journalists who happen to read this open letter. This. Must . Stop.” Salon’s Walter Shapiro added:
This is the way it ends, not with a bang but a whimper. If Wednesday night’s fizzle in Philly was indeed the last debate of the Democratic primary season between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, it will be remembered for, well, not much of anything.
Broadcast to a prime-time network audience on ABC and devoid of a single policy question during its opening 50 minutes, the debate easily could have convinced the uninitiated that American politics has all the substance of a Beavis and Butt-Head marathon.
So, who won? I haven’t the foggiest idea, but I’m quite certain we all lost.
No Trackbacks To “The reviews are in“
Here’s the big story from last evening the MSM missed:
Obama Endorsed by Leader of ‘Weather Underground’: Punxsutawney Phil!
The Hollow Men? Talk about linking the sublime to the ridiculous.
It’s HILARIOUS that the media, both new and old, are in such an uproar over the debate. Clearly, it’s due to the fact that aren’t used to seeing Obama receive any level of serious scrutiny.
Snap outta it!
I say it’s about time the media stopped coddling The Precious!
Gee Steve, what flavor is the kool-aid?
Strange how all the OFB types think the debate stunk. They were’nt so outraged when Hillary was getting piled on.
It was Obama that stunk, not ABC or the debate.
BTW - If it was so “dull” why are the fanboiz flooding ABC with hysterical complaints?
I can’t even watch the theater of the absurd. I’m serious, it’s so absurd and plastic it is sickening.
I am waiting for questions from working people, real people…and did I miss anyone saying Stepho shouldn’t involved be involved with anything to do with Clinton?
Wasn’t he a part of her husbands administration?
Way to crash and burn Sinclair Corporation, your mediocrity knows no bounds!
this was Basic Instinct 2.
So JoeHix and MyIQsux, please tell us in detail what important questions were asked of Obama? We all really would like to know what is important to you. Lapel pins? Check. Bowling skills? Check. Gala vs Red Delicious? Check.
Hey, those are great criteria for running a country.
Look, it’s not that one or the other candidate was not asked “unfair” questions, it’s not NO pertinent questions were asked of anyone.
I like Beavis and Butthead marathons.
How about asking the duo to comment on current affairs? China/Tibet/Olympics, the American Airlines thing, etc.
Or, while they have re-hashed the questions on positions a few times, how about get into actual specifics regarding proposed policy? They’re not exactly the same on all issues — yes, very similar, but at the very least they could have highlighted the differences.
Instead, all we’ve ever heard during debates is a macro level policy review e.g. “I have an alternative energy plan in place, where I will put $150 million toward development of alt. energy. And I plan to increase gas mileage by 2013.” But how about some actual specifics on these issues?
The flood of complaints to ABC isn’t because Obama was piled on as some knuckleheads would have you believe…it was because voters are smarter than the networks give credit. We want to see a discussion of the ISSUES, not a parade of who can get caught in a GOTCHA moment.
That debate demonstrated everything wrong about the public conduct of contempory American politics. The Republicans had a few like that too, when Ron Paul was the only person in the room talking about any kind of reality and the panels were out to lunch.
OK, so the media, the general public, corporations, and the people who run for office are all broken and dysfunctional…what now?
As if anyone expected better from the CorporateMSM. They’re only interested in the $tatu$ quo. They want a rich, white, business-loving, white man to continue to give them a free ride. McSame’s their boy and they will do anything to stop any meaningful debate or meaningful change in this country.
Who won? I live in Korea which means the debate was on at 9 this morning. I decided to sleep in though instead of getting up to listen to it, which means I won!
Don Davis @ 1:
That’s rich! Thanks for the humor. To the writer of this post (Steve), I will say, unequivocally, that I’m unsympathetic to the moderators. Sure, ratings are important, but so is democracy, and choosing the candidate that is best able to lead the democratic party and potentially the US. They could have chosen the high road, but they decided to be the sounding board for the fringe right-wing cheerleaders of divisiveness–Rush and Hannity. I can’t wait to turn on Hannity’s radio show today to hear his delightful glee of a “mission accomplished”. Another right-wing talking point has been inserted into the main stream media. Job well done good and faithful servant…
ABC is the biggest loser!
David Brooks nails it:
Is it ABC’s fault the Dems looked bad?
No Whining About the Media
…Obama and Clinton were completely irresponsible. As the first President Bush discovered, it is simply irresponsible statesmanship (and stupid politics) to make blanket pledges to win votes. Both candidates did that on vital issues. … Both promised to not raise taxes on those making less than $200,000 or $250,000 a year. They both just emasculated their domestic programs. Returning the rich to their Clinton-era tax rates will yield, at best, $40 billion a year in revenue. It’s impossible to fund a health care plan, let alone anything else, with that kind of money. The consequences are clear: if elected they will have to break their pledge, and thus destroy their credibility, or run a minimalist administration.
…The second pledge was just as bad. Nobody knows what the situation in Iraq will be like. To pledge an automatic withdrawal is just insane. A mature politician would’ve been honest and said: I fully intend to withdraw, but I want to know what the reality is at that moment.
….
Final grades:
ABC: A
Clinton: B
Obama: D+
Memo to David Brooks: Don’t read the blogs today.
marbotty @ 10:
Are you sure you want to go there?
Hillary always kicks ass on policy questions.
I didn’t get the chance to catch the debates and from the looks of the responses I didn’t miss much. Let me take a wild guess. All of the “debating” revolved around Rev. Wright, Clinton’s sniper moment and the like right? Boy, debates have changed I guess. They seem to be turning into episodes of “This is your Life” than an actual debate to decide who presents themselves as the best leader for the country.
Today on his early morning train wreck, Joe Scarborough and his two minions Mika and Willie, did everything they could to say Obama got destroyed by Hillary in the debate. All while Joe was spewing how awful Obama performed, the caption below scrolled a poll by MSNBC immediately after the debate that had Obama WINNING the debate 78% to 22%!
ABC - the infotainment division of Disney
Simple as that…
I didn’t even bother watching, because I knew the crap the ‘ABC moderators’ were going to fling…
ABC obviously thinks the voters of Pennsylvania only care about gaffes, guilt by associaton and lapel pins.
It’s all about insinuations… and circus.
“he’s black and has a foreign name and he lived overseas… why doesn’t he wear a pin?”
“he’s black and has a foreign name and he associated with these other scary black people… is he scary too?”
“she’s a liar, isn’t she?… I mean look at that Bosnia thing”
“let’s get her on the spot about whether the black guy is electable”
The real issues facing Pennsylvania and the country take a back seat to the innuendo-laden “trap” questions.
Panem et Circenses… have you seen the price of Panem lately?
JoeCHI @ 3:
Um, we still haven’t seen any “serious” scrutiny. This was about as unserious as a debate could get.
When you look at the future of the environment and the state of the US Economy, we’re like a car about to plunge off a cliff. But questions posed by ABC (that you seemingly approve of) are like asking about the last time the car was washed, or the music that the driver chose to listen to once.
I think most Obama supporters, nay most reasonable people, are a bit more concerned about applying the brakes and turning the car around.
By the way, I think making comparisons of this so called Democratic “debate” to a Beavis and Butt-Head marathon is incorrect. I think it would be better to compare Beavis and Butt-Head to a George Bush State of the Union speech.
The moderators insulted the American people and our intellect last night.
myiq2xu @ 18:
Of course I fucking want to go there. It’s the goddamn presidency! If you’re not voting on somebody’s stance on the issues, you aren’t fit to vote. It’s not about somebody’s hair or somebody’s flag pin or somebody’s pantsuit.
This is my note to the “Public Editor” of the New York Times. I urge you to do the same.
Mr. Hoyt,
I watched the debate and read the front page article in the Times describing the event.
Within the first four paragraphs of the article I read, “…and his association with onetime radicals from the 1960s,” and “…and his association in Chicago with former members of the Weather Underground, a radical group that carried out bombings in the 1960s that were intended to incite the overthrow of the government.” (Emphasis mine) Considering how newspapers are read, one can reasonably expect that many readers will take away an impression of the allegations quite different from what was really said and what may only be a tennuous connection to 1 (one) individual, considering what some suggest and Senator Obama contends.
I know that The Times has endorsed Senator Clinton, but it troubles me to think that two (2) reporters could not get this one (1) fact straight, in a news article!. I have chosen Senator Obama in this contest, and no doubt my sensitivity to the issue is informed by that fact, still, it worries me more than how it affects “my” candidate that at the foundation of many of the problems that afflict our politcal system lies the erosion of confidence in our sources of news and information. Here is an example that helps to illustrate why this is so. This erosion does not explain all of the problems, but it is fundamental.
Respectfully,
O Antonio Reyes
Weston, Florida
dennis @ 17:
Wow Dennis, you conduct polls now. Predictably Obama always gets the worst grading in your very credible and scientific poll. Just like O’Reilly, Hannity and Scarborough, it is so simple and easy to see your bias because of your anger and bitterness towards Obama. LOL.
I think there is one solution to the travesty we witnessed last night: NPR. I think candidates should avoid debate venues that rely on conflict, sensationalism, ratings, and profit to make their pitch. NPR would be a more balanced medium for the candidates to express their views, and the hosts wouldn’t be under such pressure to frame questions from a right-wing perspective, or play “gotcha” politics.
The time has come to end commercial debate formats, unless you thought last nights debate was substantive and topical that is…
I watched the first 10 minutes of the stream. Total waste of time.
Let’s face it, The Media is ALL about the Media. Good Reporting has flown the coup.
Instead it’s all about the stockholders of the Corporate Media.
The Truth, oh, that silly thing?
Reuters is reporting all the same, media manufactured items as somehow they are news.
I have been on the fence but Obama calling bullsh!t on the media just won him my vote in November. ABC news you suck.
Canada, please invade us.
I saw just a bit of the debate last night online here, and I had this great fantasy of Clinton and Obama stranded on a desert island together for a month, having a double epiphany, getting rescued, and coming home to TEAM UP and Kick some McASS!
I have a dream too, ya know.
marbotty @ 26:
Obama’s standard answer to policy questions: “What Hillary said.”
Can I give John McCain his donut now?
ysbaddaden @ 32:
LOL !
27 Antonio Reyes Says: This is my note to the “Public Editor” of the New York Times. I urge you to do the same.
Mr. Hoyt,
I watched the debate and read the front page article in the Times describing the event.
Within the first four paragraphs of the article I read, “…and his association with onetime radicals from the 1960s,” and “…and his association in Chicago with former members of the Weather Underground, a radical group…1960s that were intended to incite the overthrow of the government.”
Didn’t boosh’s grandpappy also try to overthrow the government?
“Senator Clinton, are you multi-orgasmic?”
michael grace @ 35:
Is that the donut hemorrhoid sufferers sit on?
kaypicts @ 31:
What are you going to do if he’s not on the ballot in November?
I find it amusing that immediately after every debate, speech, scandal, or other incident, no matter whether it involves Obama, Hillary or both, someone always proclaims they were undecided (or supporting Hillary) but now they have decided to switch to Obama.
It’s soooo predictable.
ysbaddaden @ 38:
………”only when I’m alone”………………”Oh crap! Is this mic. on?”
This country is so screwed. Not because this kind of debate happens (that is expected) but because so many people find nothing wrong with it. I think intelligent people are the minority in the US.
Bring back the League of Women Voters-run debates!!!!! Those are filled with substantive questions and don’t pander to the candidates OR the audience. What an utter failure the various anchors are at asking questions — they don’t even know the issues, being so focused on shallow external dribs and drabs.
America REALLY deserves better than this garbage.
It’s shocking to see that how greedy Hilary Clinton can be. She’d rather fight hard now, just so she can loose in the fall. The Republicans must be loving all the sound bites she is cranking out right now, plenty of time to get ready for this fall. Way to go Hilary, keep that party divide against itself for your personal & financial gain!
you know who won? mccain won. that half-wit is skipping thru the process just like the doofus in chief we have now.
Truly awful. They dredged up all the right-wing talking point for almost an hour.
Unsurprisingly, the candidates did their best to sound just like Republicans.
If I hear them applaud hunters and hunting one more time, I’m going to puke.
Barack even caved on the flag pin issue.
Unbelievable!
There is absolutely no longer any doubt in my mind - this country is a solidly right-wing country, the media is right-wing to the core, and the candidates will do almost anything in their power to cater to right-wing interests. The rest of us can go fuck ourselves.
I don’t just blame the media for last night, I blame the candidates for selling out.
We will never have a better country if they don’t stop caving to the right!
JoeCHI @ 3:
LOL. And r