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Bill Moyers looks at the parallels between the rhetoric ramping up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq and the aggressive posturing of the White House and their minions against Iran today.
BILL MOYERS: A final update. Last month Victor Navasky of the COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW told us about how all the talk about military strikes against Iran reminds him of the arguments made for invading Iraq five years ago
VICTOR NAVASKY: If you read Norman Podhoretz’s account…where he says that we have a carrier right off the coast of Iran, and all the President has to do is say “go”. And that the non-military solutions have not worked. You can’t not take it seriously.
BILL MOYERS: Since then, the talk about bombing Iran has only increased. And the biggest talker of all is the Connecticut hawk, Senator Joe Lieberman. The Democratic candidate for vice president eight years ago has now endorsed Republican senator John McCain for president and become his alter ego on the Middle East. Wherever McCain goes, Lieberman is sure to show up.
Transcripts below the fold. The full Bill Moyers Journal episode is available online.
BILL MOYERS: A final update. Last month Victor Navasky of the COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW told us about how all the talk about military strikes against Iran reminds him of the arguments made for invading Iraq five years ago
VICTOR NAVASKY: If you read Norman Podhoretz’s account…where he says that we have a carrier right off the coast of Iran, and all the President has to do is say “go”. And that the non-military solutions have not worked. You can’t not take it seriously.
BILL MOYERS: Since then, the talk about bombing Iran has only increased. And the biggest talker of all is the Connecticut hawk, Senator Joe Lieberman. The Democratic candidate for vice president eight years ago has now endorsed Republican senator John McCain for president and become his alter ego on the Middle East. Wherever McCain goes, Lieberman is sure to show up. Earlier this week Lieberman called air strikes against Iran “a distinct possibility,” and on Wednesday he and talk show host Bill Bennett coupled their banter about Hillary Clinton with some hopeful praise for her own hawkish policies toward Iran.
BILL BENNETT: This is a girl who puts on her pearls, goes down, throws down a shot of liquor, and bombs Iran…you know…lookout Mrs. Bennett, this is my kind of girl.
JOE LIEBERMAN: … it does have an appeal to it.
BILL MOYERS: For his part, President Bush this week once again indicates we will be in Iraq for a long, long time. To pull out he said, to fail to maintain what he calls “a forward presence” in the Middle East, would send the wrong signals. The President also disclosed that out of respect for the sacrifice of American soldiers and their families, he had given up golf, although there were sightings of him on the course reported after the renunciation. I’m not making this up.
That’s it for THE JOURNAL. We’ll see you next week.
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There are people under those bombs.
Can there be any doubt as to who owns our civil servants - the people who are supposed to be doing OUR business? The corporations who make the machinery of war.
War. It’s Good for Business.
Bad for people and living things.
Lieberman should rot in hell. He is a whore to the pimps of the war machine.
JOE LIEBERMAN
LIES! To protect his own interest , which not You or Me, But his own self worth and gain.
This prick is ready for another war and who fight it? Not Joe, he will be busy at the Repig convention this year.
Has anyone asked Joe, what the outcome would be in the mideast? How would Jordon, Or lyiba or Saudi arabia, and various other close nations compenstate for his DEATH WISH on iran??
Hey joe, where you going with that gun in your hand? Hey joe, please dont shove that into the presidents hand.
Ned Lamont beat his sorry ass two years ago because ppl in Conn, were sick and tired of Liebermans shit.
Lets nail this prick to the porch of truth and make him admitt why he wants To Bomb Iran.
And joes answer is,,, HATE!!!! pure and simple. Shit joey probably wished he could go back to europe and bomb them again but thats been there and done that by ppl who were older and wiser then that piece of shit.
Joe blowlieberman,,,STFU already. Retire, go out in style not as some hanger on and lobbying washington to no fucking end either.
Have some pride man,, and self respect,, show some dignity, in other words, Get over it!
Where the hell are these magical troops that are going to bomb Iran come from? Shrub’s ass? Lieberman’s loogies? Inquiring minds want to know!
Israel.
We are living on Channel Z!
I still want somebody to answer as to where Bush is going to magically get these troops to invade Iran, as we have none and occupation would make Iraq look fun and sweet.
Any takers?
Bonus points if the answer includes the words “God” and “Second Coming.” ;)
General_Rennenkampf @ 5:
Pastor John Hagee:
“Again he said unto me “Prophesy unto these bones, and say unto them, ‘O you dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!” [Biblical reference: Ezekiel 37, New King James Version, “Dry Bones” prophecy], and he spoke to them and they stood and they became an exceeding great army - meaning they physically came to life. Now how is God going to bring them back to the land? The answer is fishers and hunters. The answer is given in Jeremiah 16, verse 15 and following. God says in Jeremiah 16 - “Behold I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers” - that would be Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - “Behold I will send for many fishers and after will I send for many hunters. And they the hunters shall hunt them”
Attila the Appeaser @ 9:
OK…
So the troops will be zombies from Palestine then? Hooray for the Theopublican Zombie Army! May it eat brains and fight manfully! ;)
Bill Moyers: ‘Democracy in America Is a Series of Narrow Escapes, and We May Be Running Out of Luck’
“I have been lucky enough to spend my adult life as a journalist, acquiring a priceless education in the ways of the world, actually getting paid to practice one of my craft’s essential imperatives: connect the dots.
The conclusion that we are in trouble is unavoidable.”
full story: http://www.alternet.org/democracy/85521/
P.S. Guys better start telling the truth and quit alluding to mysterious outcomes. Fucking speak.
I S R A E L
Remember when we used to joke about the fact that Bush didn’t know that invading Iraq would effect Iran? Of course it was never true, but don’t forget where this all started: Rush Limbaugh
Rush Limbaugh was the first one ever to mention Iran. He whispered it. He started the ball rolling. He pulled bombing Iran out of thin air and here we are talking about whether to do it or not when the American people have never even discussed it, and it certainly has never been authorized.
Religion is such hype. All of them , every last one of them, has cause more death and destruction than anything else in human history. Religion is the cause of more hatred, than racism. You will convert or die, and be lost to hell for eternity.BullShit!
Of course when I say “convert or die” I’m refering to the middle ages.
And they’re still killing people in the name of religion.
The end times are here folks, better go out and get some beer and a nice bottle of tequila.Might as well go out with a smile on yer face.: )
[Deleted. Friar Tuck, C’mon, what are you thinking? Please don’t post in all bold lettering and or all Caps. Site Monitor]
[Deleted, refers to deleted post. Site Monitor]
mudshark @ 14:
Hold it a minute. Would you really want to stretch the definition of religion by considering both Capitalism and Communism religions? Neither are especially religious, and both combined killed around 220 million people. Considering that Earth’s population didn’t get to 1 billion until into the Capitalist era, it kinda falls on its face that religion caused the most deaths. Of course, if you take proportion of population into account, then Ghenghis Khan’s animists killed the most people of any group.
As for the end-times, not the diabolical imaginings of John Hagee are here, but Rome and Han China Collapse Part II: This time, it’s personal! is the end times scenario. Enjoy this civilization while it lasts, cuz the crash is coming, from global warming (or not, for the deniers), environmental destruction, and loss of oil. We’re entering the second Volkerwanderung era…
Joe wants to be the big hero for Israel, Bomb Iran and become instant American Israeli hero.
Joe, the US doesn’t need to “help” Israel, they are perfectly capable themselves. Your just trying to stir up votes for your fire breathing friend Mcbush.
General@17
Now that you mention it, yes I would consider Capitalism and Communism a religion. Why not, they worship both of them.
Lieberman (R) is going to his ass kicked to the committee chair curb. Can hardly wait.
General_Rennenkampf @ 17:
Or as the good Rev. Hagee would put it, “Die trochen Knochen Wanderzeiten”
Joe Lieberman gives the White House war criminals what they want, whenever they want it . That, for the simple-minded, is what “appeasement” means. Not talking to, not engaging in dialogue…..giving them what they want . So Joe , like Prescott Bush, is an appeaser.
mudshark @ 19:
Who’s the “they”?
The two are ideologies, a related animal, and a more dangerous one. In religion, there’s always the alternative to let people live and convert (unless it’s something like Shinto or Greco-Roman polytheism, then you’re fucked). In ideology, there’s no conversion, only being used either as victim or supporter of it.
Capitalism believes in making you unequal and suffering. Communism simply made suffering equal.
Attila the Appeaser @ 21:
I don’t think Rev. Hagee can read Shakespearean English, much less speak German.
Friar Tuck @ 15:
Come on Friar Tuck. Pull it together. Keep it together. You know the routine. We’re all working here.
fact of the matter remains, the jews killed christ, yet they believe in the old testament, where they shall be named the ppl of god, find a land that is without war and they can call thier own.
Um that 1947 choice was the worst case possible. Since the death of christ, jews are scatterd among the earth like dust, untill god deems them good enough to call them home.
Even today, most jewish ppl do NOT believe in christ, but say ´´yeah he was around etc´´. So who or what is the jewish ppls mesaiah????
If you go into certian parts of jersulume today, you arent allowed in areas that are claimed by jews. Nor are you allowed to talk to them either. Special visit sights are set up by the goverment(s) to allow the christians to follow pillage to thier lord and saviour. Expect armed military on both sides and expect shouts of ´´SCUM´´ because you happen to see the Muslims version of where their saviour was born or lived etc.
Iam sick and tired of ppl that took over the Holy land , make it off limits to those of thousands that are christan or jewish or muslim, and to DARE!!!!!! DARE!!!!!!!! ask those why they are there and how long then intend to stay.
Seems to me,,you dont want to talk about it,, seems to me,, you just turn your pretty head and walk away!
GOODNIGHT and GOOD LUCK
Best regards,,
oh and DANKE FOR C&L blog as well, cool beans and franks.
BRFT!
General_Rennenkampf @ 23:
I dare say they would be the big money people, and, anyone who holds money in the highest regard. Money first all else …..when ever. As for Communism, they, would be the ones who stand to benefit to most from it. I see what you’re saying, and you are saying it very well. I’ve been reading your post for quite some time now. You are a educated person, that i can tell.Your very bright and articulate. As for my comment about religion/capitalism/ Communism, I think you get my point. I’m not saying all people with faith are bad or like the way I described religion( or the other 2 for that matter) It’s the people who run things. The people at the top.Anyway thanks for responding General. It’s hot here and I’m havin a cold beer. see ya. : )
Thank God for C&L and Bruce Springsteen. Peace. America.
In other news: Gun zealots won’t allow guns at their own convention http://www.nydailynews.com/new....._it_a.html
But pushing to allow them on the streets, shopping centers and schools? No problem!
OH if strong type is not allowed then why is it available on your websight? sorry to offend .
god bless and good night :)
Best regards,,,
mudshark @ 27:
Well, yes, but remember, the message of Christianity is “be nice to everyone so you’ll go to heaven” and the message of Islam is “be one equal group of people before Allah, that you enter the Paradise.” And within 400 years of Christendom rising to power you got Constantine and in Islam there was Aurangzeb.
Absolute truth + Human Race = Mass slaughter. No matter whether the absolute truth is based on Jesus, Allah, Amatesaru, Zeus, or the Proletarian Revolution.
Just the same old crap, someone wrote some crap down in a book and said “ This Is It, OBEY, or be castout.
same old shit, different language.
General_Rennenkampf @ 31:
Gah! Meant Charlemagne. Constantine was a kook, but he wasn’t the Charlemagne level of evil. Now Theodosius, OTOH….(shudders.)
mudshark @ 32:
The danger of believing words on paper comes when those words are the Absolute. Look at Mao’s Cultural Revolution for one example. For another example, look at the modern fundamentalisms. They all cling to an absolute form of truth and in power tend to produce brutal governments. Certainly, you won’t find much difference between strict adherents of Mein Kampf and strict adherents of the Bible or the Quran. Literalism in any form is destructive to a modern-day society.
As for the message of Christianity, As a recovering Catholic, I’ve seen way too many people act like criminals and thugs for 6 days of the week, but when Sunday comes they’re all nice and remorseful (for a couple of hours) then it’s back to being a thug. Nope, I want no part of it. To me it’s the height of hypocrisy, but again, I’m not lumping all religious folks together. Their are some decent folks around religion still.
mudshark @ 35:
Yeah. I’m supposed to be a Southern Baptist, but you wouldn’t know it from my beliefs on science, religion, and politics (i.e. accepting the modern scientific consensus where it contradicts Holy Writ, not accepting the tyrannical SoBap version of God, and completely opposed to Bush Republicanism.)
I find it rather telling that most thugs in Church aren’t even that remorseful. They act like a diluted form of thug instead of the concentrated version. And some people are thugs because of religion, and hence see no reason to apologize.
After 08 elections are done we need to turn our eyes and efforts on this little zionist son of a bitch, you just know he has committed a crime somewhere,sometime, that we can throw him into prison for. Too bad it’s not against the law to be a greedy, warmongering, coward. CEO
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
and we’re at the mall on a diet pill!
doesn’t this guy look a lot like senator palpatine??? Darth sidius??
“Just at the present time, when the light which was shed by the fires of war has revealed so many matters formerly hidden in shadow, the awakening of world attention is called “anti-Semitism,” and the explanation is given that “after every war the Jew becomes the scapegoat” –- a curious admission which would lead a less self-centered people to inquire, Why?”
–Henry Ford, 1921
Paul Wolfowitz: The Jerusalem Post’s “MAN OF THE YEAR”
“What’s not in dispute is that Wolfowitz is the principal author of the doctrine of preemption, which framed the war in Iraq and which, when it comes to it, will underpin US action against other rogue states.”
Douglas Feith: Pentagon Office Produced ‘Alternative’ Intelligence on Iraq
Norman Podhoretz: The Case for Bombing Iran
“As an American and as a Jew, I pray with all my heart that he [Bush] will”
Lieberman Begs Petraeus to Invade Iran
Attack Iran the day Iraq war ends, demands Israel
Bill Kristol: Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change
Israel To U.S.: Don’t Delay Iraq Attack
Stu Bykofsky: “To save America, we need another 9/11″