Oliver North, Fox News' Appeasing & Emboldening Revisionistorian
By Bill W. Sunday May 18, 2008 8:30am
After lauding Oliver North for his new book that apparently has more pictures than it does pages (No doubt North's picture-book tells a much different story than the truth-laid-bare photos and accounts from an award-winning unembedded photojournalist like Dahr Jamail, but I digress), Sean Hannity asks North for his opinion on whether the President was right to compare the want to hold diplomatic talks with Iran to the appeasement of Nazis in the 1930’s.
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Oliver North: As you know, I’m the history guy at Fox News Channel, right? I’ve done this WWII series – 52 of our episodes about WWII. Had it not been for Chamberlain going to sit down with Adolf Hitler and try to cut a deal in Munich, WWII might never have happened, but it emboldened the dictator. That’s what the President said yesterday in Jerusalem. And a little reminder today, a shot across the bow here at the NRA, when John McCain got up and said, 'You cannot have these kinds of unconditional, no preconditions discussions, with despots and dictators' - dead on the mark.
For someone who was lucky not to have spent the better part of the last two decades making license plates, he's got some nerve touching this topic. This is the guy who oversaw the arms for hostages deal with Iran in 1985 (among other crimes), right in the middle of the Iran-Iraq war in which the US was actively and openly arming and supporting Saddam Hussein. Ollie North didn't just talk with Iran at a time they were our enemy in a proxy-war, he actually helped to arm them, bypassing Congress by violating the Boland Amendment to help fund an illegal war in Nicaragua.
Lacking even a shred of credibility, Fox News' "history guy" is to the truth in the historical record what Dick Cheney is to gun safety. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the subject, and anyone who believes a word of what he says about it is a fool.
Negotiation is not appeasement and there are zero parallels between simply opening up a diplomatic dialogue with Iran and the capitulation to Adolf Hitler in the Munich Agreement. It's a ridiculous assertion, especially considering that the Bush administration itself has negotiated with Libya and North Korea, yet Iran's previous offers to put everything, including its nuclear program, on the table and peacefully negotiate have been completely ignored even after Iran had been an important ally of the coalition against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Oliver North, just like John McCain and other conservatives, don't even have a clue what they are talking about. Apparently no one in this administration ever thought to ask Bush's own Sec. of Defense, Neville Chamberlain Robert Gates, for his opinion:
We need to figure out a way to develop some leverage with respect to the Iranians and then sit down and talk with them. If there's going to be a discussion, then they need something, too. We can't go to a discussion and be completely the demander with them not feeling that they need anything from us.
Exactly.
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Clearly there is power in ignorance.
Diplomacy should always precede bellicosity, and continue until hostilities are resolved at peace talks.
For every diplomatic failure there are untold numbers of successes.
Hitler was either fanatical or he wasn't. If he was there was no stopping him except by force, so talking resolutions couldn't have caused the war, only delay it.
Rethugs try to have it too many ways.
And as for boosh making his comments about a possible next president in Israel, how does that make him any better than the Dixie Chicks?
When your "history guy" is qualified because he hosted a series and then must resort to "what-if" scenarios to discuss history, it is high-time for a new "history guy."
Oliver North is a prime example of the double standards in right-wing world..
The man aided and supported terrorists- He lied to Congress- Yet he's a hero?
Funny how Repugs still harp on Bill Clinton for lying about a blowjob to Congress and they still grit their teeth with rage at Clinton's having lied about his relationship with Monica- Yet they have no problems with Oliver North having to lied to Congress about his own support of terrorism. They think he's a friggin hero!
Lying about a blowjob or supporting terrorist- which is worse? Hmmmmm
Where the hell are the priorities to the wingnuts??
Sometimes we forget that guy has a mugshot...and its not for a petty crime either.
Meanwhile, Olbermann is reeaaallly getting under FakeNew's and their superstar's skin:
http://tinyurl.com/5he6m8
Not to mention:
That is pure bullshit.
This is just Disgusting the way Republicants always try to rewrite history. Ollie North is/was one of the most corrupt members of the Reagan administration. Although it doesn't surprise me that (ins)Hannity would give him a pass on this and that of course it would be on Fux Snooze. Hopefully he like Kevin james will be called out on this on the other networks. but I doubt it. Wow. Am I actually first?
Nah, guess not.
And this is yet another reason why in the eyes of the rest of the world, the US has very little credibility left when we claim to be the world's beacon of liberty, freedom and justice...
when criminals become commentators, we become an audience to our own crime.
If anyone has "emboldened" the terrorists, it's Ollie, Reagan, and Bush
Monstrously good post! The Conservatives speak to themselves in a closed, historical and logical vacuum. Thanks for bringing cleansing daylight to their moldy delusions.
As gomer would say "surprise, surprise." What else is a criminal going to say about a so-called new conglomerate that supports his cause?
That's the problem: if you want to convict someone in the United States for any sophisticated crime (i.e. no mere gang related murder or drug possession) you need to send them to an international court. White Collar crimes go grievously unprosecuted here.
So many things wrong with what Herr North said...
where to begin?
First, Munich did not have a "no-conditions" deal to begin with! Hitler was given the Sudetenland on the condition that war would have been avoided. Second, WWII would have come regardless of Munich, simply because Hitler was nothing but an expansionist bastard that sooner or later would have pushed the Allies into war. Third, the Nazi regime was, by 1938 well into the planning stage of the Endoslung. It was also a Great Power industrially, and had already begun gobbling up other nations. Matter of fact, I believe it had engulfed Austria the second time it tried, and that it had shown through the actions of the SA and the SS that it was perfectly willing to slaughter its own and other nation's citizens. Fourth, the Nazi regime was not diplomatically isolated, like Iran is, it had allies like Mussolini and Hirohito.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg.
Talking is not appeasment. Giving in to a bully's demands time and time again again is appeasement.
What does that make Pelosi? And the other Democrats who are afraid to say no to Bush sending hundreds of billions more of our tax dollars away to a failed occupation?
A taxpayer revolt is needed to end this war.
San Francisco Vote Pelosi out in the June 3d primary.
So the "History Guy" is claiming that prior to Chamberlain's admittedly disastrous attempts at diplomacy Hitler had no plans to invade Poland? That Hitler was just waiting to get one over on England prior to his attempt at world domination. That is what the History Guy is saying. Really. The History Guy is saying that.
Whoever hired him to work on anything having to do with history should ALSO be making license plates. Cause that is criminally stupid.
Ollie North Show, it's kind of like "Aesop's Fables" told by that Dog and his boy Sherman.
According to my own research on the subject, Hitler wanted war before his own assessment of his health precluded him from leading Germany (he reasoned that since his father died early, he would too). Britain and France didn't want war, and (again, from what I know) they were willing to strip the Sudetenland from the Czechs and give it to Germany in order to stop the war. My sources are Churchill, Kissinger and Shirer.
The Czechs, with a mutual defense pact with France, felt betrayed and with very good reason.
If Bush was searching for a better analogy, he might have found one in 1990 when his Daddy's envoy to Saddam Hussein implied that the US wouldn't object to Iraq seeking a territorial solution to its boundary dispute with Kuwait.
These clowns keep on digging their own hole deeper. They can't help it. You can't fix stupid.
Ollie needs to ask another "historian" for tutoring -- tell him to give W a call!
WWII was going to happen. Regardless.
Seems like they all forget that Chamberlain's meeting with Hitler pushed him East and created tension between Germany and Russia. I wonder what would have happened if both socialist states had been neutral, or had joined forces?
We can thank Chamberlain for that much, can't we?
Oliver North has also been making money hiring Interrogators for the War On Iraq:
CounterPunch: Torture, Incorporated - Oliver North Joins the Party
Right wing ignorance of history is nothing new- After all, wingnuts are openly hostile to academia and educated people-
I was impressed when Chris Mathews recently humiliated an ignorant right winger who had was ignorant of the events that lead up to the UK's involvement in WW2.
Neocons paint world history in the light of American exceptionalism- The notion that we have always been the good guys...I've seen right wingers try to spin the Mai Lai masscre in Vietnam as having been done to protect freedom.
One of Bush's moronic quotes dealt with his ignorance-and indifference towards history- He admitted he isn't much of a reader, and felt people don't read history books because they are not interested in things that happened 'way back there'.
Don't look to FOX for intelligent discourse...And since many right wingers blast Sesame Street for being 'too liberal (i.e too many minority kids on the show); no doubt the very foundations of their respective educations are shakey.
Appeasement is the cause of war! Bottom line. They should have called it the Munich War Conference of 1938.
Palooka @ 22:
The USSR mean Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. If you can get Socialist from Nazi, than you can get Republican for USSR.
Hannity
It's right up there with Hannity's Curious George books. Well, it's good to know the wingnut welfare program has decided to dumb there books down enough to be "read" at Sean's level.
The debate is to talk or not to talk instead of bomb or not bomb.
That is a good thing to keep w and cheney from bombing Iran.
Even after 3-5 days after Boosh makes that remark, they still haven't cracked a history book. Too busy i guess.
I don't believe in heaven and hell, but if there's a hell, there's a special place there for pieces of shit like Oliver North.
Ollie needs to wiin one of Olbermann's "worst person in the world" awards for talking about those pathetic liberal appeasers starrting wwII when his own history is of dealing arms for hostages with Iran. Sean Hannity gets second place for cheering him on.
What do we call it when they put their criminals (North, Feith, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Liddy, Gonzalez, Libby, etc.) above our true decorated American heroes (Kerry, Cleeland, Kennedy, etc.) who have not committed crimes against their government, or humanity? Anti-American, Fascist Revisionism! Let them send their children to die for our country...not a chance!
ysbaddaden @ 26:
Our Republican party is fairly socialist already. Just not in a way that actually benefits the majority.
ysbaddaden @ 26:
YSB ... You might enjoy this that I found researching the seven dwarfs.
http://course1.winona.edu/pjohnson/h140/snow_white_fable.htm
Brother's Grimm were a couple of very strange guys. whooee!
You have to wonder when Kevin James will get a juicy contract with Faux. He has as much credibility as Stean and Ollie.
FAUX NEWS: The channel of Hate spewing Christians, Criminals pardoned by other criminals and Factless based opinions.
It should be called the Hypocrisy Channel!
StirFry @ 5:
So BillO's "attacks" on GE actually have nothing to do with Iran killing US troops ?, what a wonderful man Mr O'Reilly really is, makes shit up about Iran killing US troops and blames it on a company doing business with Iran. Bill O'Reilly truley is one disgusting piece of filth.
getalife @ 28:
Don't be shocked if we do bomb Iran before Bush leaves office (or rather IF he leaves office).....
On the way to work, I had the radio on in the car- nothing but right wing callers between the traffic reports- Every single caller was a right wing toadie calling for Bush to 'nuke' Iran..
And to think Republicans insist they stand on the 'side of life'..
Ollie North should still be in jail. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfield should be charged as war criminals....but the American way is, these guys will write books, go on the talk show circuit (TDS/Colbert included) and make a ton of money.
With 300,000 million people and 50% are on each side of the political road....that's just the way it is.
The Republican vs Democrat support is no different from Sunni/Shite, Black/White, Muslim/Christian............there's as much strength on both sides because of your disdain for each other.
The old saying.....the more the hate...the more the will to fight. Perhaps this why the wars the USA have been in are becoming so hard for them to win. Americans have soldiers fighting because the military is A JOB...whereas, their opposition are fighting in defence of their country, culture and hatred towards the USA. Anyone will pick up a pitchfork to fight against a soldier with an AK-47. Have you not figured out why yet?
How about starting up a "draft Robert Gates for President committee??" He's the only person from Capitol Hill who has spoken the truth in about 15 years.
ysbaddaden @ 26:
If you think by way of their name the USSR was socialist in any way whatsoever, then you must likewise think the The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy, and if that's the case, I've got a bridge for sale I think you'd be interested in.
Speaking of appeasement, Hillary Clinton appeased Bush by voting for the Bush War for Oil.
Revising history is an American pastime. It isn't just Ollie North that does it. It is American historians that do it too. Almost all US history books paint the rest of the globe as greedy warmongering bastards, as opposed to those always good heroic American cowboys who always ride in to save the day. The rest of the world chuckles.
Amitola @ 40:
I'll grant you that Gates isn't so bad, comparatively at least with the rest of this administration, but that's taking it waaaay too far. No one in this criminal enterprise that is Bushco ever needs to come anywhere near our govt after we flush this foul turd come Nov.
Keep in mind---
Chamberlain was coming from a country still reeling from a million dead and 1.6 million wounded, and nearly bankrupted, from WWI. The Brits and French told the Czechs that they would not defend them if Germany took the ethnic-German Czech region of The Sudentenland September 30, 1938.
Prescott Bush was a banker with Brown Brothers Harriman and represented Thyssen in Germany until Fritz Thyssen broke with Hitler in 1939, and with other German interests until it was made illegal in 1942.
Who's the appeaser?
He's their "history guy". Great gravy. No wonder they don't know anything about anything.
Here's a scenario undr the "What If" category.
What if, both USA & Canada being blessed with the unused land mass we have, decided to take about 50% of the annual military budget and gave it to the farming communities to grow food. Yes, food for the world......or does that sound to human or Christian-like?
Then the USA could legitamently claim to be "rulers of the world" or "my brothers keeper".
How in God's name could any country threaten the USA without the rest of the world standing up in their defence. Essentially, the rest of the world would be protecting their food source.
Guns scare/threaten people....food attracts/welcomes.
Never! The USA needs to keep their #1 employer in business and that is the Pentagon and to justify the Pentagon's budget...they need a little chaos around the world and usually (with the covert shit they are good at) they cause the chaos.
And that's the facts Jack!
Ralph Kramden @ 42:
No no no, you've got it all wrong. It wasn't a war for oil (especially since oil has topped $4.00/gallon recently), it was a war for Halliburton.
What BS.
But just let's entertain this thought for a moment further. If WWII hadn't happened, who would have benefitted the most? The Soviet Union under Stalin and China. Both of them endured by far the most casualties: 43 million of the 72 million in total, roughly 60% of the entire rest of the world.
Stalin and Communism would not have been seriously crippled by WWII, in lives lost and in their economy.
In 1938, Chamberlain and the rest of the world didn't view Hitler-Germany and Japan as the biggest threat to World Peace. It was Stalin and Communism.
Great mug shots of North. Their mug shots should accompany all articles about them. Delay, North, all of them.
This is truly disturbing. And to top this, FOX has the nerve to have Karl Rove, a traitor, on their staff.
One subject that is always painted in the pro-US light is the horrific war crime of dropping of 2 A bombs on Japan-Over 100,000 civilians were vaporized- Funny how the US can decide which nation can or cannot have WMD, when it was the US who used nukes on civilians...
Americans casually dismiss the Japanese deaths as unimportant-They argument that dropping the A bombs saved million of US lives is bullshit- Japan was months away from surrendering ..
The A bombs were all about showing the Soviet union our capibilities
ConcernedCanuck @ 43:
Interesting. Why is it, we non-Americans see it that way? Especially "WE" being your closest neighbour? When the rest of the world question their dislike/disdain towards Americans, I'm sure they question the basis of their feelings as part ignorance because of their geograhical distance. But when they see how the feelings of the USA's closest neighbour are, they must feel more assured.
Maybe it's because Canada is a very placid, mind-your-own business type of place....geez...like most of the rest of the world. We don't go around looking for people we can bloody their nose or steal their resources. We are very thankful and acceptant of all we have versus the other guy. We would rather pay, trade or barter with other countries than invade and take over their resources.
This is who the far right, brain dead respect.....trash like libbey, north, rove, and all the other disgraced faces in the far right. They really have NO ONE of ethical and moral standing that they can have come on that disgusting propaganda network and spin for the dead party.
Shameful, and pathetic cancer to this country. The days of Eisenhower are dead and gone. It's now the party of nixon, reagan/alzheimer, bush and the criminal offspring. What a sad and pathetic party of criminals.
I want to spit when I see this pompous criminal give advice and comfort to the brain dead that tune in and lap up his shit spewing. vannity isn't even worth a comment.
a perfect segment
good video, great links, well written
perfect
Chamberlain met with Hitler in September of 1938. In March of that year Hitler had already annexed Austria. To suggest World War II might never have happened if Chamberlain had not met with Hitler fkies in the face of the aftermath of World War I, the autobiography Mien Kampf and the aims and desires of the Nazi party and the German people to reclaim their land.
Oliver North having a History Series on Fox qualifies him to be a janitor. Nothing more.
Mr. Hand @ 52:
Actually, from what I've read from some historians, Japan was already in it's last war throes and was merely weeks away from surrendering. Either way, it seems odd how the US has always targetted civilians in times of war or invasion. Japan. Vietnam. Korea. Cambodia. Haiti. South America. The list is almost endless. American military seems to have a knack for attacking and killing civilians, and having very poor records versus another military.
Mr. Hand @ 52:
Yes but that was how the war ended my friend. It started very much by the same warmongers, that being the USA! Japan wanted to go into China and the USA sanctioned their Iron-Ore by 80% which meant the nation industry and construction would be crippled and the Japanese saw this as the prelude to an invasion so they did what the USA did with Iraq and is planning on do with Iran and that is attackm it before they are attacked.
The USA knew about the attack and did nothing about it because it was way off US shores and the gain would be....entry into war against this country they wanted to confront.
It's the same story we've been reading over and over again.
The Americans who know the story line are the ones who are ashamed.
Oliever North = Gomer Pile of bull shilt
Wasn't Chamberlain a Tory?
Ralph Kramden @ 42:
YES! She's such a gullible person. The most rudementary knowledge of the beginning of this war will show, Tony Blair (a bit more significant than Ms. Clinton) was also sold on the idea. And as my unbiased memory serves me well...........didn't congress finally vote to invade Iraq or was the decision based entirely on Hilary Clinton.
Guys like you are wayyyyyyyyy tooooooo much. Hey aren't you missing the caroons or the Simpsons or something?
ConcernedCanuck @ 56:
And usually the government tries to justify the killing of civilians by claiming it was done to 'protect freedom'. That is happening right now in Iraq-and how long will it be before US citizens are targeted here at home- and the government will spin lies to justify it's crimes.
ConcernedCanuck @ 56:
A secondary purpose of dropping two atomic bombs on Japan (if not the primary) was to intimidate the Russians who were in a commanding position to sweep across Europe at the end of World War II and conquor the entire continent.
The desperate Faux Noise Reslugs just can't find anyone that can tell the truth. That's why the Reslug criminal and corrupt party is dying quickly.
majicman @ 57:
I am sorry, I find it rather revisionist to leave Japan off the hook so easily. Japan had already started their very own manifest destiny policies well before they attacked Pearl Harbor. They had invaded China, Korea, and Manchuria and killed people by the boatload, so spare me the victimization of the Japanese empire and their reign of fun in the 30s, OK?
Japan simply chew more that they could swallow when trying to push the USA off the Pacific.
Although it is easy to pain the nuclear weapons as WMDs now, if you neck was in the line you would have done the same.
Doug @ 58:
Easy........ I don't like North either but the fact is, he probably could chew you for breakfast. Don't question his intestinal fortitude. I'd say he is the McCain of bullshit though and that wouldn't affect his patriotism during his service in you fucking military....which you would no doubt shit your pants doing....just in boot camp.
And this my friend is from a Canadian who only too well remembers the valor of the soldier in the Vietnam war.
Obviously your gratitude is even than your stupidity!
ConcernedCanuck @ 56:
So I guess the battle for Okinawa must have a figment of our collective imaginations, right up there with the moon landings.
History is messy, but come on...
majicman @ 65:
Excuse me, but i think as an American it is really hard to be gratefull to someone who, as a member of the Armed Forces of the United States of America subverted the United States Constitution and violated the law in pursuit of an ideology.
herr dubyah has been a complete and utter disaster for this country and a WIDE majority of Americans know this fact. herr dubyah's policies have been complete failures and he's already been proven to be the worst president in history. Yet, you have these milktoast pansies like the criminal North and insane vannity still blind and obtuse enough to actually defend anything that comes out of the chimp's mouth. It's really, really sad that hacks like North and vannity are still stupid enough to be put their party ahead of this country. One thing we know for sure that herr dubyah's failed policies have ALL been driven by party partisanship and were not the best course for this country. Sadly, reich-wingers prefer someone like that....welcome to permanent minority status....you earned it.
pretty amazing hubris for a criminal
I was wondering what that stench was coming from this site this fine morning.
It's the rotten, gangrenous decay of tens of thousands of bodies of innocent Nicaraguan citizens murdered by Oliver North, John Poindexter, Ronald Reagan and our tax dollars.
For a fraction of the penance owed for what we did to those people, North should have been incarcerated long ago. That he is not rotting in a prison cell as I write this only confirms to me that the US government is irreversibly corrupted. Fortunately for people like North and Hannity, there is no chance I will ever meet them and do to them what my worst fantasies of retribution would permit. But maybe someday someone will. On that day I will smile again.
Fuck you Oliver North. You're a fucking murderer of innocent people and if there's a hell your table is reserved.
The Dude @ 64:
Do you even know what you just wrote? The agenda of which you accused Japan of having, my question to you is, how much different is that of America's current agenda with the Middle East & South East Asia and what is the agenda founded on?
Don't utter such hypocrital bullshit to the board.
The fact is, the USA will never enter into another conventional battle. They will always have 17,000 warheads as their hole card (but it's for peaceful purposes) and whenever it looked like they were going to lose.....it's bombs away....AGAIN!
Deny that and prove how totally amiss of reality you are.
The Dude @ 66:
Did it justify dropping 2 A bombs on Japan?
Twist the truth and you'll get some followers. Ask Charlie Manson.
majicman @ 65:
I don't care what this fucking traitor did in Vietnam, any redeeming service is eclipsed by the fact that he committed some of the maximum crimes of TREASON during the Iran-Contra affair, and he is not only not remorseful or sorry but damn proud he got to wipe his filthy ass with the constitution.
He is a criminal and a traitor, so maybe in Canada is your standard for gratitude (I highly doubt it), but here it is not. Regardless of what FOX news and the morons in the right wing of this country try to make us believe.
It will be a cold day in hell before I get to give thanks to Ollie North for anything. And I come from a family with people who fought and served this country with dignity and honor, and this fucking asshole has shat over their memories. Fuck him... fuck him with a white hot iron rod up his rectum.
North is a criminal. Just like the rest of his criminal buddies. I don't give a fuck if he took on the red army himself as a lad. He's lost what little credibility he might have earned LONG ago.
I can't believe this weasel is popping up again after all this time. Probably thinks we all owe him something for all his hard criminal work.
Just goes to show you dirty reslugs never die, they just get consulting jobs at faux noise.
xoites (One White Vote for Obama) defends Constitution @ 67:
Then doesn't it concerrn you that you live amongst 150 million people (Republicans) who support your own Commander-In-Chief and that administrations ideology?
If so, then is it not fair for the rest of the world to feel this way about the US Preside