Back in 1963, Barry Goldwater and John F. Kennedy were seriously mulling the idea of chartering a campaign plane and traveling around the country together, debating actual issues and letting the electorate decide who would be the better candidate based on actual policy differences. Tonight on MSNBC, in light of the news that McCain and Obama would perhaps be open to holding moderator-free town-hall debates, Tim Russert wonders whether an election based not on petty, manufactured “character gaps,” but on actual substantive differences is possible. Can you even begin to imagine that level of civility in today’s political culture?
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“The tone of the campaign is going to be very interesting to me. Both men have said publicly that they really want to elevate the discussion. This discussion back and forth about having joint town meetings throughout the summer brought me back to 1963 when John Kennedy and Barry Goldwater had all but agreed to fly around the country in the same plane, have town meetings - robust differences - and then shake hands, go back on the plane and go to the next city. I always wondered aloud, ‘would that ever be possible in 2008?’ And McCain and Obama seem to be suggesting it may be do-able. And if they both hold true to try close down these 527s, these so-called independent groups, could we have a real debate about Iraq, and about health care, and about taxes where people take pride in their position, and openly acknowledge it’s different than the other candidates, and then say to the voters, ‘you decide which one of us should be Preisdent.’ That would be pretty interesting to cover.”
Indeed, it would, Tim. Indeed, it would.
Filed Under: Barack Obama, Election 08, John McCain
Tags: Barry Goldwater, Debates, JFK, John Kennedy
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Great point, Tim. Let’s start with YOU.
It would be a refreshing change but given the desperation on the right; not so likely
mindblowing
Hey Tim! How much time have you wasted on peripherals such as Rev. Wright, is he black enough, etc?
These guys blow in the wind of their own hot air!
Don’t hold your breath folks….we are in for five more months of the same old regurgitated garbage
What bother discussing actual issues when the reich-wing MSM is too busy discussing former pastors, bowling scores, and flag pins.
katie @ 1:
now that he’s called for it, he can ignore any application of it to the “work” that he does.
I bet he has no clue what to do with Olberman.
Can you imagine an election based on actual issues?
Yes, every time I listen to Obama speak. :)
Now, if only some of his supporters would start playing ‘follow the leader’ instead of repeating the same mistakes they made in 2004.
Good point, T¡mmeh. But what will we do with the screaming old man, who keeps interrupting everyone, to bitch about his school taxes? Yeah, I’m talking about McCain. Seriously, there’s always that one guy at Town Hall meetings, and then everything turns to shit.
“That would be pretty interesting to cover.”
hey timmy, what has stopped you from covering it in the past. maybe if you took the high road and called out the liers (like the swiftboaters) you in fact could have helped bring this to america. my isnt that a nobel cause for a man with your media power.
so timmy heres a tip, when a group puts up an add that is based on total fabrication and obvious lies, do some journalistic research. why not even have a staff of people that do it for you, and make an issue out of it. might be better than, oh say, repeatedly showing the ad on your programs (free publicity for the lies) and using that as the talking point of your “reporting”. a better man might show the ad one time, refuse to show it again and then call out the people behind the ad to show proof. you might even find that the time is ripe for a ratings boost if you took this approach. after all, your biz has become ratings driven. right?
Dear Tim:
Your desire for a real discussion of issues should prompt you to meetings at your network where NBC decides to
1. refrain from any mention of the Rev. Wright.
2. refrain from any mention of lapel pins.
3. refrain from any mention of the Reverend Hagee.
4. refrain from reporting any “swift-boating” assertions by either campaign without a thorough investigation of those assertions.
5. keep the candidates on issues when interviewing them, rather than spending hours manufacturing “gotcha” questions.
After you have pledged to do all of the above, come back and speak to us again about elevating the level of discussion. Clean your own house.
monty @ 5:
Fuck you Russert! Maybe if you and your sorry ass MSM comrades would only talk about the real issues YOUR complaint would be solved.
willie @ 10:
Couldn’t have said it any better.
no way republicans let that happen. if you were a republican would you?
peaceful easy feeling @ 8:
If you’re talking about Carville and the DLC, look for them to sabotage the Democratic efforts. These are the same closeted repugs who told Gore and Kerry to throw in the towel. CNN has installed a few of them on the “discussion panels”.
Haulin’ Oates @ 15:
that is a fair question for timmeh and chrissie, eh?
Yes, great idea! I think it could work.
I’m going to dance through fairyland, ride my gum-drop boat to strawberry falls, and see if I can get the unicorns on board. We could do it!
Where was Russert during the 2000 and 2004 elections? Was he covering the ISSUES, asking the candidates about their PLATFORMS? Heck no, he was giving more airtime to blowhards like the Swiftboaters and those critical of Gore. Well, Al certainly had the last laugh with his indisputably deserved Oscar, Grammy and Nobel prizes. And what does Timmeh have? Any Peabody awards in there for all the noble journalistic work serving the American public and their right to know, instead of giving airtime to smoke and mirrors?
I don’t know, but I think not.
Left&Left @ 13:
I was watching last night when he said this and that was exactly my reaction. Out of nowhere I just yelled, “fuck you, Russert!”. A look of deep concern came over my wife’s face.
Obama and McCain don’t have to travel and debate together for Tim Russert to do his job better.
Sorry to bring up Ron Paul, but he was one of the few candidates who tried to really explain the issues based on policy rather than the same talking points. When he was allowed to ask any candidate any question, he decided to ask McCain a question on the economy. As you can imagine, McCain deflected this question by saying that he “knows people” who know economics and his response was complete.
So I guess that I’m curious how this “town hall” format will work out for the candidates. Will McCain still avoid having a real debate without using catch phrases and the same bland rhetoric that we’ve heard in every other debate? Will the voting public realize that he has uninformed, twisted, capricious opinions on every issue (especially the ones that he should be informed about)? Finally, will they even care?
AND another thing….some ‘journalists’ are starting to see some light at the end of the bush and are suddenly growing a conscience. DO NOT let them off so easily. Jackasses like timmy did NOTHING when blatant lies were being passed around as fact so we could go kill a bunch of innocent people.
Get Real NBC will not let that happen! NBC will call all the white voters racist if they don’t vote for the black man! Get real the day THE MESSIAH LOST in NH they cried racism on the white people in NH followed by calling the Clinton’s racist to prop up their empty suit Messiah in SC. Never a word about his race baiting Hoodwink Bamboozle speeches in SC or GA. Yet today still calling white people in KY racist for not voting for the inexperienced no record to stand on fraud. PLEASE Obama has no record on issues! OH I forgot he was a community organizer! A community that had 40 shooting in a week last month. 13 kids dead in the community he organized. THAT RECORD he spews out every day.
Has anybody noticed the subtle shift of the talking heads in corporate media land?
It’s as if they smell a Dem majority, and they’re sensing that their propaganda for the last 7.5 years isn’t going to be tolerated or be in vogue much longer…time to appear “fair”.
Russert can go straight to hell. I’ve seen his brand of “gotchas” posing as news, and he’s just another corporate media turd.
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Can you imagine if Timmeh actually discussed real issues…?
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Bumping up Kathy in St. Louis cuz I was gonna say the same thing. Plus I’d like to add that I doubt it’s NBC telling Timmay what to ask. I’m sure a lot of those questions he thought up all by his own damn self.
Kathy in St. louis @ 11:
I don’t think Little Timmy could handle a discussion of the issues.
…I don’t know…I am kind of looking forward to what the 527s are gonna do to McSame. The guy (and his wife) have so many skeletons in the closet that are not “substantive campaign issues” and that would be the only way to expose those issues.
“I got your swiftboat right HERE you snake oil salesman!”
oh yeah….and screw Russert!
I could imagine it…
IF FRACKING ADULTS WERE IN CHARGE!
Nice idea, but somehow I doubt it’ll happen. If Obama and McCain were to run against each other on just the issues, McCain would be destroyed in a Goldwater-style landslide defeat. The GOP has no choice but to go to petty character smears. It’s all they have.
My first thought was “Gee, if corporate media wanted that, we’d already have it!” Problem is, it doesn’t “sell” as well as good, old-fashioned, down-in-the-dirt mud-slinging and smearing.
Still, it’s a nice thought.
gf120581 @ 31:
Truly!
McSame could never survive this format, not against Obama.
However, this may be his only hope because everyone KNOWS Republicans would run like hell from such a debate, so if McSame agrees, he may actually pick up some brownie points regardless of how awful Obama makes him look.
Having said that however, I just done see McSame’s military dictatorship supporting advisers/lobbyists allowing him to go thru with this.
jollytyrant @ 18:
WIN: Best post of the day.
Tim Russert can go fuck himself, acting like he is not a HUGE part of the very problem he pretends to give a shit about.
I’m so sick of these propagandapundits.
Dave @ 35:
that gets my vote!
Obama versus McCain made for TV debates?
Worthless, everything is to scripted and produced and controlled.
Everything would be tailored to be PC and at the end they shake hands and smile and wave all that crap.
Wow! Would the word for this be chutzpah? Or is it that Russert doesn’t pay all that much attention to his own bullshit, and has no idea what he’s saying from week to week. Either way this kind of phony concern is laughable, in a pathetic sort of way.
Take a look in the freakin mirror, Timmy!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200804200001
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme.....ox-new.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJkU1e-_r3w
All Obama would have to do is let McCain keep talking and when it came time to debate, use everything he says against him.
From your tiny, tiny mouth to god’s ears, timmeh. Except you yourself will have to stop being an enormous part of the problem.
Can you imagine an election in which the electorate are allowed to hear the views of not simply one, but many, third party candidates? But since the networks conspired with the Democrats and the Republicans to make sure that Ralph Nader was not going to be seen and heard at the debates during the summer of 2000 [the big corporations wanted to make sure that their views were not challenged], that would seem to be only wishful thinking.
As for Timmy’s idea of closing down the 527’s, I guess he wants voters to leave the Swiftboating to the professionals like him.
ricksramblings @ 24:
Wow. Everything in your ridiculous diatribe is angry and incorrect. Do you get talking points from Marge?
Too bad Russert and his fellow propagandists have done everything in their power and the considerable power of the corporations that employ them to make damn sure that an election conducted by an electorate that is fully informed of the issues never happens.
Somebody ought to Ninja dick slap that shithead into the middle of next month.
unfathomable, isn’t it, Tim? could any election really be left up to We The People?
The Republicans would never allow it and if they did, the Democrats would find some way to blow it!
katie @ 1:
My thoughts exactly. Since that won’t happen…
Have y’all seen the last nadir event?
Dozens of people showed up.
Forget the debates. I understand the issues. Let’s just vote now.