C&L, is there a way to crank up the volume on your end?

Thank you!

I can`t hear it.Maybe I don`t need to.

this is straight up party bullshit

no one is being disenfranchised

the remedy is bouncing out the dimwit state party functionaries that moved up the primaries

primaries are not elections, they are PARTY creations

The first guy who spoke had a good point that the uncommitted delegates should count in full since they are not determined by the primary election.

The remaining speakers (so far) seem to be relying on slogans and images of the civil rights struggles.

I’m guessing the RBC will restore the uncommitted delegates and give half votes to primary delegates.

We have the CRAPPY PRIMARIES because we are still working in a CRAPPY ELECTORAL COLLEGE construct. Can WE MOVE AWAY FROM THIS CONTRUCT ALREADY?

Thought it was a telling moment. Everyone seemed to agree that if Florida’s primary had not been penalized that 3 million voters would have turned out instead of 1.5 million.

And there you have it. If you count the 1.5 million voters that did show up, you “disenfranchise” the 1.5 million who didn’t (but would have).

Anyone know where this meeting is taking place??

Orangutan. @ 7:

Anyone know where this meeting is taking place??

in the reality constructed by hillary clinton and her gang of self absorbed female sycophants who cling the unfulfilled promise of a woman in the whitehouse.

i would love to vote for a woamn for president, will amy goodman run?

I think it’s in DC.

Orangutan. @ 7:

Anyone know where this meeting is taking place??

Washington D.C.

Thanks.

What a circle-jerk of bafflegab!

I am interested John.. Thanks buddy…

Even though it is ridiculous and stupid that is has gone this far…

Hillary needs to go… far far away

www.thisinstead.info

All I can say is that Rep Wexler .. is an ass kicker..

99Luf Balloons @ 12:

What a circle-jerk of bafflegab!

This was requested by one side of this meeting, and they’re the ones in the circle jerk. Wexler is making them look really lame!!

99Luf Balloons @ 14:

www.thisinstead.info

I love new paradigms… they are coming… and our current one will fall away soon. like a cicada husk.

I hope that’s not live streaming from the RBC bathrooms.

What a lovely family reunion… I’ll be at the bar…

Geronimo…

It’s on CSPAN too.

They are super lame..

Very Lame… none more lame then Hillary who signed the agreement essentially saying that it does not count… She basically ran alone.. and no one else campaigned there..

Now she wants it…(when it is totally insignificant)..

I never really liked Hillary… but I really have lost all respect for her in this campaign.. I do not even think she is a good person anymore.. she has a bunch of face saving she needs to do after she finally accepts defeat.

Oooh! The MI fight is starting.

rduke @ 21:

I never really liked Hillary… but I really have lost all respect for her in this campaign.. I do not even think she is a good person anymore..

I agree.

LOL! Watching it on MSNBC and leave it to them to identify the debate in their graphic as “30 Party Insiders Decide Whether To Count Florida and Michigan…”

I wonder if the original decision by the DNC and RBC to punish Florida and Michigan by disenfranching all those voters was characterized by MSNBC (and other O-bots) as a “backroom deal” made by “Party Insiders”?

I don’t believe they did.

But I’ll bet if Obama had trounced Hillary Clinton in those states instead of the other way around they would have.

all i’ve been seeing since iowa is one campaign REPEATEDLY bending over backwards trying to accommodate another party who’s busy moving the goalposts to fulfill some destiny of being POTUS

all that is left is for the poor guy to just drop out and wait in line just as billary somehow think he should have done in the first place

yeah i said it the big nasty pink elephant in the room and thats why all these clinton people keep coming up with these new ideas of how the nomination would be obtained

and i sense a lot of democrats are of this view and keep making excuses about sexism and all the other crap they can dream up or pull from their asses

they think HE should just roll up his campaign shut up and allow hillary to ascend to the throne while he go away and wait quietly for his “turn”

john i somehow sense you’re one of those people…you can say t free speech is still protected

WOW, that presentation by the Michigan delegation just now was really well thought-out!

ysbaddaden @ 18:

I hope that’s not live streaming from the RBC bathrooms.

LOL open mike.

Male: Those GD Clintons are messing things up!

Unidentified Male: No sh*t. No way we can let them level the playing baby.

Male: I’ll be GD if I’m going to let them be snooping into my pie man. I’ve busted my butt the past 7 years to get ahead.

Unidentified Male: No sh*t. Middle class is going to pay for this. They need to be punished.

I’m watching it on CNN.com. Volume is good.

I am watching it via her… no probs with volume.

so basically the dems make rules that are meant to be broken

what a joke the party is

more lies from the dis ingenious clinton camp

from americablog lol such liars they are

Saturday, May 31, 2008
Senator Nelson invoked the name of an activist who doesn’t support Nelson’s position — and didn’t do what Nelson said
· 5/31/2008 12:31:00 PM ET · Link
Make a comment · reddit · FARK · Digg It! ·

Florida Senator Bill Nelson gave an impassioned defense of Florida today. He invoked a couple of Floridians to support his position, including Megan Foster. Here’s the that section of his remarks:

BILL NELSON: Now, I want to give you some examples. Megan Foster, a mother of five from Tampa, frustrated by the incompetence and failures of the Bush administration, organized her own campaign. She rallied friends and family to get out the vote for her candidate. Her energy and enthusiasm was infectious and helped inspire many others to become politically involved and help get out people to vote all over the state; and then Megan was elected a delegate.

However, Megan just wrote a post on DailyKos to make clear she doesn’t share the view of Senator Nelson. In fact, she did not help get out the vote in Florida. She channeled her energies in other states where she knew the votes would count:

Senator Nelson just used my name to argue a position that I do not support. Anyone who knows me or has read my diaries, knows that as a Florida grassroots organizer, I understood that Florida broke the rules. I played by the rules. I organized Tampa Bay area Obama supporters to help elect Senator Obama as our next president by fundraising, online networking and rapid response as well as phonebanking to and canvassing in other states. In fact the week before the January 29th primary, I was otherwise occupied getting out the vote in South Carolina. I also traveled to North Carolina and phonebanked to Texas, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, etc.

I ran for pledged Obama delegatge in Florida CD 9 to make sure that IF Florida’s delegation is seated, Senator Obama would be represented by a loyal supporter in my district.

Those who played by the rules are the ones who are actually being punished. That’s disturbing.

Sen. Levin reminds me of Detective Sipowicz.

23 Orangutan.

I practically grew up on Orange Tang,

Do they even make Grape Tang anymore?

ysbaddaden @ 33:

23 Orangutan.

I practically grew up on Orange Tang,

Do they even make Grape Tang anymore?

I don’t think that the Clinton camp will go for this line of thinking.

27 L.A. Confidential

Live from the RBC streaming bathroom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH2nQHPs4aA

Hillary Clinton is solely responsible for this circus. She has escalated this fight with disingenuous comparisons to Myanmar and the 2000 US presidential election. Her feeble lies make her sound more like Karl Rove. This has nothing to do with counting all the votes. It’s a primary process. Not a general election. The party sets the rules. They rules should be followed.

Yes, the Obama people continuing to move the goal posts is truly annoying.

The deal as of 1984 has been that the 795, 796 or 797 superdelegates were to view the distribution of pledged delegates and cast their votes in order to override the kind of general election-losing, McGovern-like distribution of pledged delegates from red state caucuses the Dems aren’t going to win in the general election anyway that marks the Obama position.

But the Obama people somehow REMOVED, not just “moved”, that critical goal post (with the help of mainstream media) and have convinced almost everyone that the purpose of the superdelegates is to simply ratify the kind of general election-losing, McGovern-like distribution of pledged delegates that Obama now has.

Aside from that, the Obama people also moved the goal post from achieving the target number of total delegates to win the nomination into “But we’ve won the most states”, then “But we’ve won more pledged delegates”, “But we’ve won the majority of total delegates so far”, none of which is the criteria winning the nomination or for being simply ratified by the 797 superdelegates.

Randi Rhodes said a many months ago that Clinton created this scenario (leaving her name on the MI ballot) as “insurance”, in the event she was losing this contest.

I now believe this.

I want to see the Clinton dynasty fall flat on its face now. I’m sick of her, sick of her crybaby supporters, and sick of their rovian tactics. That woman purposely left her name on the ballot.

Clinton and her supporters excel at one thing: polarizing people. She’s a divider, not a uniter. She’s a cheater, and her supporters are two-faced. They are all weak.

I’ve seen their kind in the corporate environment: They wear their indignation as a badge of honor: woe is us, we are victims. All the while, they know right from wrong. They don’t care who they’re defecating on, because the end justifies their means.

Harold Ickes is an asshole. He sounds like Hillarys personal Truman Capote, without talent.

Ickes: BWHAAAAAAA!!!! If we don’t get what we want it will do “enormous viloence” to this party!!!

These people will say anything, do anything, ruin anything to get elected.

It’s Me @ 37:

Yes, the Obama people continuing to move the goal posts is truly annoying.

The deal as of 1984 has been that the 795, 796 or 797 superdelegates were to view the distribution of pledged delegates and cast their votes in order to override the kind of general election-losing, McGovern-like distribution of pledged delegates from red state caucuses the Dems aren’t going to win in the general election anyway that marks the Obama position.

But the Obama people somehow REMOVED, not just “moved”, that critical goal post (with the help of mainstream media) and have convinced almost everyone that the purpose of the superdelegates is to simply ratify the kind of general election-losing, McGovern-like distribution of pledged delegates that Obama now has.

Aside from that, the Obama people also moved the goal post from achieving the target number of total delegates to win the nomination into “But we’ve won the most states”, then “But we’ve won more pledged delegates”, “But we’ve won the majority of total delegates so far”, none of which is the criteria winning the nomination or for being simply ratified by the 797 superdelegates.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

This was a flawed primary. Clinton signed the pledge to ignore the results. Now she wants all the delegates in a primary that shouldn’t be counted.

Pathetic.

I still don’t think MI should seat any delegates (and I voted in MI), but Levin kicks ass! After all of the embarrassment I’ve suffered from this primary thing, Levin still makes me proud. Dang, he’s the only one I’ve heard today who make any sense at all.

Why hasn’t he ever run for POTUS?

I’m watching the Clinton people press Carl Levin.

These people are purely gluttons. Not only do they want full delegate rights, but then they don’t want any sort of compromise that would give Obama any delegates. They keep citing fair reflection, that those other voters didn’t matter, that their intentions don’t matter. Then they want to just leave those uncommitted delegates uncommitted, so that the campaigns can just persuade them to vote for them.

No compromise, no unity. Those are their words, not mine. “I understand the need for compromise, but a compromise for one person is not always a compromise for the other.” These delegates shouldn’t even be seated in the first place! Those were the rules, everyone agreed to them! I LIVE in Florida, I didn’t vote because I was told it wasn’t going to count! It sucked, but these people complaining that they went out and voted have no right to demand that those votes should be counted. You were told just as I was.

Those were the rules, everyone agreed, and if Hillary Clinton was winning right now, she’d be demanding that these delegates shouldn’t be seated out of the other corner of her mouth.

But the fact of the matter is, despite my own feelings on the subject, there needs to be some kind of seating of delegates. But for the Clinton people to be demanding no compromise and to seat these delegates fully…it makes me sick to my stomach. These Clintons, the same slimy crooks that they’ve always been.

But I loved Levin’s response to the Clinton people.

“You’re giving a fair reflection of a flawed primary.”

Clinton and her supporters excel at one thing: polarizing people. She’s a divider, not a uniter. She’s a cheater, and her supporters are two-faced. They are all weak.

The operative word in this graph is weak

Revolutionaire @ 43:

I’m watching the Clinton people press Carl Levin.

These people are purely gluttons. Not only do they want full delegate rights, but then they don’t want any sort of compromise that would give Obama any delegates. They keep citing fair reflection, that those other voters didn’t matter, that their intentions don’t matter. Then they want to just leave those uncommitted delegates uncommitted, so that the campaigns can just persuade them to vote for them.

No compromise, no unity. Those are their words, not mine. “I understand the need for compromise, but a compromise for one person is not always a compromise for the other.” These delegates shouldn’t even be seated in the first place! Those were the rules, everyone agreed to them! I LIVE in Florida, I didn’t vote because I was told it wasn’t going to count! It sucked, but these people complaining that they went out and voted have no right to demand that those votes should be counted. You were told just as I was.

Those were the rules, everyone agreed, and if Hillary Clinton was winning right now, she’d be demanding that these delegates shouldn’t be seated out of the other corner of her mouth.

But the fact of the matter is, despite my own feelings on the subject, there needs to be some kind of seating of delegates. But for the Clinton people to be demanding no compromise and to seat these delegates fully…it makes me sick to my stomach. These Clintons, the same slimy crooks that they’ve always been.

But I loved Levin’s response to the Clinton people.

“You’re giving a fair reflection of a flawed primary.”

That’s what I loved too. And the fact that, in a fashion, he stated the primary system itself was flawed. That is part of the point, at least in the case of MI.

I’m a MI voter who chose not to stay home. Mr. G and I were all for Edwards but went out to cast our ‘uncommitted’ anyway. Even though we knew the votes wouldn’t count we still thought it made a statement. Not that I was totally against Hillary at that point or anything. We just wanted votes cast on the dem side of the ballot regardless. I wanted to send the message that I would cast a ballot for ‘uncommitted’ before I would vote on the full-slate of republicans (and have my vote count).

This whole exercise demonstrates perfectly how dislocated these people are from us. They have totally lost the big picture here. The federal
government has become a fascist instrument of the military industrial complex, and they are pondering such foolishness as if it were serious.
We need go greatly weaken the influence of federal government. Let us begin by educating ourselves to stop providing soldiers to them, and by eliminating religion from our lives. Let us live in peace in our own chosen State without the meddling and thievery of a federal government. It has greatly outlived it’s use.

Is this woman with the red hair a clinton supporter?

i say, give all the votes from florida and michigan to……KUCINICH

The MI vote:

1. It was not going to count.

2. There was to be no campaigning in the state.

What part of that doesn’t Elizabeth Smith understand when she asked, why would a major candidate remove their name from the ballot?

Just total insincerity by the Clinton people. They could not be more disingenuous or sneaky.

Yes, the woman with the read hair is a Clinton supporter: an insincere one.

I can’t believe they are going to disenfranchize all of the voters that didn’t vote because they were told their vote wouldn’t count.

Josh Marshall: Who’s Disenfranchised?

If the DNC were now to turn around and decide to make these contests count after all, these non-participating voters would be disenfranchised no less than the people who did turn out would be if the DNC sticks to the rules and doesn’t seat any of the delegates. The simple fact is that large numbers of people, acting on accurate knowledge and in good faith, decided that there wasn’t a real primary being held in their state on the day in question and on that basis decided not to participate.

Now, the question is how can we really know how many people didn’t show up because they were told it wasn’t a real election? There is of course no way to arrive at a direct answer, at least no practical one. But this post by Eric Kleefeld, which on a statistical analysis by Gregory P. Nini and Glenn Hurowitz, makes a very strong statistical case that as many as one million voters in Florida and probably more than a half million voters in Michigan did not vote who otherwise would have if they had not believed that the results would not be counted. Take a look.

Why won’t they just follow on the rules the DNC laid out and all the candidates agreed on, including Hillary? …

Hillary Clinton, 10-11-07:

“I signed the DNC pledge not to campaign, not to spend money in any of the states that did not comply with the rules established by the DNC…. It’s clear this election they’re having is not going to count for anything.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg