The Real McCain
By Barbara OBrien Monday Jun 09, 2008 6:40pmVia The Jed Report, here’s a video that was put together last February by a Ron Paul supporter. The original video, I think it goes off the rails a bit at the end, particularly where McCain is criticized for his behavior as a POW — a subject that, IMO, ought to be out of bounds in the forthcoming election — but most of it is devastating and ought to be played and replayed throughout the coming campaign, so this is a re-cut version.
There's a lot of hand-wringing and worrying over polls that show a tight election, particularly in the Electoral College numbers. However, the campaign fight hasn't even started yet. Thanks to the tight focus on the Obama-Clinton primary fight, most of the public has no idea how McCain stands on most issues. All they know is that he's a "war hero" and a "maverick."
Today, finally, the real fight for the White House can begin. Read more ...
do issues matter i'm being told it's a personality contests
I agree that McSame's POW status should be left alone. He survived an awful experience that would have destroyed lesser folk.
Anayway, critics don't even have to get close to McSame's Vietnam War experiences. He has already supplied plenty of gaffs, flip-flops and screwups to keep the critics busy.
During an interview with Sen. John McCain on Monday's NBC Nightly News, Brian Williams noted that "the videotape clip of your comment about being in Iraq 100 years if need be, of course, is still kicking around," and then asked, "[G]iven your support for the surge and where you believe this nation is in Iraq today, where do you see it going and will your support be there for however many U.S. troops are required?"
McCain answered flatly: "Yes. And the fact is we are winning in Iraq."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/10/mccain-again-pledges-to-s_n_106...
McCain's chief surrogate, Senator Lindsey Graham, said during his appearance on ABC's This Week, with George Stephanopoulos.
Stephanopoulos asked Sen. Graham if McCain's policies are essentially "an extension or maybe an enhancement of the Bush policies." Sen. Graham answered, "Yeah, absolutely."
McCain's POW record is as worthy of criticism as anything else.
All they know is that he’s a “war hero” and a “maverick.”
I believe those memes are dying a slow death in the punditocracy, especially the maverick one.
Pat @ 5:
too slow...
we must know the issues
http://www.reuters.com/news/video
out of bounds huh? i'm for obama, but are setting anything out of bounds for him?
you can bomb villages, get shotdown, survive torture and be called a winner. how many people has obama killed in a corporate
sponsored war? how many huh?
nothing is out of bounds. nothing.
I don't think I've ever heard a politician say "I disagree with what the majority of the American people want."
To borrow from Tom Tomorrow, "stupid or lying?"
wheyghey @ 9:
only bush and cheney after they were elected into office
what song is that?
"McCain is criticized for his behavior as a POW"
Out of bounds? After his standing idly by while Kerry was attacked. Christ, why are Dems such pussies? You're not going to take down these guys playing nicely. Doesn't nearly forty years of abuse teach you anything? Since 1969 we have had two Democratic Presidencies lasting 12 years. Do the math. All the while being blamed for EVERYTHING wrong with America. LBJ predicted it when he signed the Civil Rights Act. Imagine that...forty years of punishment for providing equal rights to it's citizenry.
wheyghey @ 9:
You must have missed Cheney's saying "So..." when an
interviewer pointed out the majority disagreed with him.
marko @ 8:
Unfortunately, it should also be recalled that Obama has voted each and every time to continue funding the occupation in Iraq. Not exactly the best way of supporting the troops, now is it?
!That! is a video of one creepy human being. He !admitted! lying about issues to advance his ambitions. Okay, thanks for the straight talk, now please go away....
Billy @ 4:
It also should not forgotten that McCain was dropping napalm on the Vietnamese people from 35,000 feet, people who, like the Iraqis, never threatened anyone in these United States. It also should not be forgotten that on McCain's last mission, when he was shot down, he attempted to bomb a lightbulb factory, which is, of course, a civilian target and not a military installation and which therefore makes him a war criminal. But it is highly doubtful if the mainstream media will ever bring this to the attention of the American people.
(Music is too loud, I think, for this particular type of video. I like the music, but it just needs to be pulled down a bit.)
Erroll @ 17:
Mick Fowler @ 16:
your correct and i understand your looking at a bigger picture but that was then we need to focus on now your being too smart they will twist that and say let me guess your not patriotic
I sure hope that McShame makes it to the election. His own party may want to put this to an end and try something different.
Just saying.
the difference on taxes gop talking heads always leave out who is going to be taxed differently
http://www.reuters.com/news/video
Not really a very good video. Terrible music, too.
Why would McCain's POW years be off bounds? This was a guy who was systematically tortured, using Russian propaganda brain techniques (among others) for 5 and 1/2 years. Is that really the person we should have in the WH and commanding our foreign policy?
After Clinton and Kerry - nothing is out of bounds.
You can bet McCain will try to use his time as a POW to his advantage. I think it's fair game to question it if he does - especially if he tries to rewrite history.
The Republicans invented "swiftboating" and should be ready to accept the consequences when the shoe is on the other foot.
As long as there is no factual distortion, why is McCain's war experiences out of bounds? I came to this country in 1980, and know little about his experience there, except that people genuflect to him as war hero. Some of them are the same people who had no problem Swiftboating Kerry.
The younger generation also probably know very little about McCain's earlier career - how he wasted his time in college, graduating at the bottom of the class (perhaps helped by his family's military standing), what his role was in the Vietnam war, his time as POW, his return and marriage infidelity. I think for a person running for president, his earlier record should be open to scrutiny, as long as there is no willful distortion of the record.
McCain’s POW years be off bounds?
McShame brings it up therefore it should not be out of bounds although it might be smarter to stay away from it. Remember we are dealing with people who voted for Bush... two times. Who knows how they would take it.
If you yanks vote in McCain into the White House - your citizens will have committed nothing less than national hari-kari.
Anyway isn't Ron Paul still in the race to become the Republican nominee, he's doing a hardcore Hillary, and sticking it out till the convention.
Long live the revolution - as the paulites say.
those pow records are sealed baby.....if we attack that issue they will be on us like you know what.........not to be offensive we have plenty of ammo.....we just need to vote and hope bush doesn't attack iran.....and that looks like it's in the works
theWalrus @ 22:
I couldn't agree more, the background music was way too loud, all I could think of was the NBA commercials that made it recognizable. McCain should also face some tough interrogation about his two suicide attempts while he was in that POW camp. Will he bend to stress again? perhaps in the oval office? these are very pertinent questions that need to be answered. Did he give the North Vietnamese, and by extension the Chinese and Russians, information that he could be blackmailed over? Do we even need a sitting President with these vulnerabilities?
Billy @ 4:
No it's not.
And thinking like that makes you no better than the other side.
McCain was working for the other side while a POW. His nickname was "Songbird." He was known for OFFERING information. Treated badly? When his father was the HMFIC in that area? I don't think so!
While we're on the subject of how candidates acted when they were young, how 'bout this: http://www.northstarwriters.com/dc163.htm Check out young Ms. Rodham getting fired... --MaryK
Merlyn @ 29:
they want you to attack the pow record....think about it
McSame has peaked in the mid 40s. I'm assuming Rethuglican vote suppression/fraud will erase about 3% of the vote, but as long as McSame doesn't go above the present level, he won't win.
I couldnt watch that video; the music was extremelyannoying and distracting.
Merlyn @ 29:
Yes it is. When he opens his mouth about his service record, he leaves himself wide open . That's just the way it is.
I would like to think that we would be smart about it though. Just be factual, not mean or vindictive like the right.
His POW background is absolutely relevant because he signed a confession as a result of torture and now
he advocates torture. He is a moral black hole, hypocrite, a cypher as a human.
So it starts.
Obama, who stands for virtually nothing, won the first round of the campaign by savaging Hillary Clinton.
Now, his supporters hope to carry the day by savaging McCain.
Have they nothing to say to actually recommend Obama?
SilentWay @ 35:
Troll truth.
Ron Paul supporters...setting the standard...as usual!
karl @ 30:
Exactly! And besides, it's just plain disrespectful. More active duty military are finally starting to swing our way, and picking on someone for what they did or didn't do while behind Vietcong wire is Fox News levels of loathsome.
The thing is WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT!
This is the time we have been waiting for for 8 freaking years: Justification Time
I'm sorry but I don't trust the man, matter of fact I don't trust any people running for POTUS,
[quote]U.S. Veteran Dispatch
By Ted Sampley
March, 2008
[b]John McCain:[/b]
[url=http://www.usvetdsp.com/mar08/mccain_manchurian.htm]The Manchurian Candidate connection[/url]
At that time, the Soviets were perfecting techniques designed "to put a man's mind into a fog so that he will mistake what is true for what is untrue, what is right for what is wrong, and come to believe what did not happen actually had happened."[/quote]
If you want to attack McCain's record as a pilot in Vietnam or his time as a POW, you might as well concede the election to him now Attacks on him for serving his country and being tortured would be disastorous for Obama's chance of election. Obama is playing it exactly right by honoring his service and going on to attack him on the merits of his positions.
lilybelle @ 36:
he stands for representing the republic and the constitution......i'm not real smart but i'm thinking those two items might be a good start
I'm not sure there is any reason to shy away from McCain's war record. Did the Repubs shy away from John Kerry's war record? Hell No! They fabricated a bunch a lies and rumors meant only to tarnish Kerry's reputation. It didn't matter if it was true or not. They are doing the same thing to Obama (i.e. Muslim, won't say pledge of allegiance, etc.)
The REAL McCain may not be a war hero after all. Haven't you heard the rumors that while he was a captive in N.Vietnam he gave away military secrets in exchange for favorable treatment and early release? Of course you've heard it - I just made it up and you're reading it now. That has just as much credibility as anything they said about Kerry, and are saying about Obama.
Here is all you need to know about the REAL McCain - Just say NOPE!
karl @ 30:
they want you to attack the pow record....think about it
Exactly.
The right wing is very good at magnifying simple issues (getting a blowjob and lying about it)and turning them into catastrophes, while ignoring their own small issues that the left wing tries to present as a catastrophe. It is certainly a do as I say, not as I do political war.
Democrats should play dirty, but they should be smart about it. Never do anything that could give a soundbyte for the Republicans to overuse and rip the Democrats down. There is no good way to say, "John McCain was not a war hero". There are many good ways to say, "John McCain is a war hero gone batshit insane."
Richard @ 39:
thanks for the common sense richard
lilybelle @ 36:
Anybody who doesn't follow the party line is a "troll", apparently.
I ask you - since you seem to be interested -- what can you say to recommend Obama?
Is he pledged to end the war in Iraq?
Last I heard, he was off courting evangelicals.
Enlighten me.
Richard @ 39:
Sorry I disagree. read my previous post. I'm not saying "Attack" his record. I'm saying address some of the issues in it. Gotta be smart about it.
Why is it that it's tolerable for the right to smear one of us. But we're not to respond in kind?
All I'm saying is wait for him to open the door first. Which he already has. Then give it to him.
Karl @ 40 said,"he (Obama) stands for representing the republic and the constitution……i’m not real smart but i’m thinking those two items might be a good start"
I say,
Karl, I dont know if you know this but...
Obama voted for the patriot act and (therefore) does'nt know shit about the constitution.
karl @ 40:
Can you be a little more specific?
I seem to recall he voted for the Patriot Act and its' renewal. That guts the constitution pretty well.
What do you mean by "representing the republic"?
let's get off the pow deal the guy is a neocon wannabe........he is a perfect candidate in some respects for the pseudo gop....appears to be in the middle but doesn't really want to be....he is a third term of bush we can not let them talk us out of that bush's approval rating in the teens...the guy is an oil man flunky he lied to get elected mclie will do it also...that's what neocons do lie
The TRUTH at the end, I lie because of Ambition.
There is enough in our arsenal in the way of straight up truth that we can use to shake these neocon leeches off of us forever. We don't need to pick on this old man at all, not even for his obvious encroaching senility. We don't need to do any of that.
All we have to do is focus on truth the way we have since this sad chapter in our history started. We were lied into a war (BAM!) The once great good guys of the world are now torturing people....let's cut it out (BAP!). The ice caps are melting and Nebraska is already selling beachfront condo space (BOOZH!). The last 8 years were pretty hated, huh? Howzabout four more of the same? (BOFF-O!!!)
TKO....
BULLSHIT.
If he was giving up troop positions and was the reason that so many American's were dying, that has every right to come out in this election. He was a war hero? Bullshit. He was a fucking coward. Those other soldiers who were POWs weren't giving troops positions and flight times.
And to classify his own betrayal as top secret... that reflects his character.
milquetoast @ 46:
like i said i'm not very smart i went to a public university......what can i say
Richard @ 39:
So, how come the Swiftboat Campaign worked? Only Democrats are allowed to have their service challenged?
Why should McCain's actions regarding his working against POWs be off the table?
SilentWay @ 44:
Different Strokes @ 47:
this is what i mean...republic a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of the citizens entitled to vote and exercised by representatives chosen by them....whats he stand for representing the people you know all the branches of government not just the executive branch....and k-street..like i said i'm not real smart just trying to figure it out..bush is a pseudo dictator...stack the congress and mr. veto
characterizing mccain as a 'war hero' degrades the reputation of genuine war heroes. allowing this screw-up to sell himself as a war hero is not acceptable to many vets and it should be challenged out of respect for the real heroes.
There is enough in our arsenal in the way of straight up truth that we can use to shake these neocon leeches off of us forever. We don’t need to pick on this old man at all, not even for his obvious encroaching senility. We don’t need to do any of that.
This is a very naive attitude. And one that has not served the Dems at all well for the last 12 years. There is a huge difference betweed "swiftboating" someone and "attacking" and questioning their positions and life experiences.
The attacks against Kerry worked because he wasn't a fucking POW for 5 1/2 years. And he wasn't tortured. And he didn't bear the physical legacy of the years of confinement and torture. If you attack McCain for his war record or "address' the issues raised by his military service, we will lose the November election. And we will lose big. In one of the posts above, somebody called McCain a "fucking coward". That's just the type of craziness that will get him elected. Thank God that Obama is a whole lot smarter and savvier than a lot of people who post here.
lilybelle @ 55:
Obama is not my progressive dream date, but come on, the Obama stands for nothing meme is rather empty Republican rhetoric. Let's think about war with Iran (McCain's wet dream). Ending the war in Iraq. Economic policy. Court appointments. Energy policy.
And Obama savaged Hillary? That's poppycock.
Sorry, but quack like a troll....
The Bush administration has gotten the Iraqi government to accept and promote the idea of permanent American bases in Iraq.
So, we will be there for 100 years - McCain or no McCain.
The democrats are doing nothing to oppose this.
They haven't said shit.
Obama, even before this, talks about leaving "residual troops" in Iraq to "defend our embassy".
Unless we get thrown out by the Iraqis, we are going to be there indefinitely whether it's McCain or Obama.
Sorry to say.
Richard @ 39:
Does this not beg the question why Obama or anyone else should feel compelled to "honor" what McCain did when he was in Vietnam? As I stated at comment #17, McCain dropped napalm bombs on the Vietnamese people in the 1960s. In case anyone is not familiar with napalm, it burns the body and leaves horrible scars on the person, both physically and emotionally. The United States is doing something similar in Iraq and Afghanistan with cluster bombs, which contain many thousands of tiny bomblets, which does terrible damage to the individual. Like napalm,cluster bombs do not discriminate among men, women, children and the elderly nor from alleged terrorists and ordinary ciilians.
In a country like Germany, for example, and most other countries in Europe, there is very little celebration accorded to those who engage in militaristic adventures [as described by James J. Sheehan in his moving book Where Have All The Soldiers Gone?-The Transformation of Modern Europe]. Outside of fascist and authoritarian countries, one would be hard pressed to find another country that feels the need to sing the praises of its alleged military "heroes" like the United States does.
pete @ 54:
no offense it will not work they want us to attack the pow record it's sealed will never gain any ground on that issue...he has been called a hero for years no to try and change that......they will say dems not patriotic
theWalrus @ 58:
It's not naive to not want to become something you've railed against for 12 years. We have a clear "high road" that we can take here. I say we take it and prove that we were right the whole time.
"They" didn't hesitate to attack Admiral Stockdale when he was Perot's running mate because Stockdale had been a POW during Viet Nam.
lilybelle @ 60:
I didn't realize that trolls quack.
Speaking of war with Iran:
Here's a quote from your not dream date -
""[L]aunching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in" given the ongoing war in Iraq. "On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse."
I am not a republican.
I am a democrat that wishes that we were going to be represented by a progressive.
I think we need to pressure Obama into representing progressive ideas. No more Patriot Act. No more preemptive wars.
Obama is on the wrong side of these issues. It's not enough to point out McCain's deficiencies.
Karl @ 52 said,
"like i said i’m not very smart i went to a public university……what can i say"
I say,
public university huh... I understand.
Obama, ...what can one say, ...I guess he is the best choice that mainstream media has chosen for us but...but I dont like the choices that mainstream has chosen for us to choose (if you know what I mean)
SilentWay @ 35:
umm, did you WATCH the video ?
McSame seems to savage himself pretty darn well.
SilentWay @ 66:
milquetoast @ 67:
12 months ago ... THE MEDIA HAS CHOSEN HILLARY !!!
4 months ago ... THE MEDIA HAS CHOSEN MCCAIN !!
today ...... THE MEDIA HAS CHOSEN OBAMA !!!
Can we please make up our minds over exactly who the media has chosen for us ?
what plays loudest in this sequence is that the media doesn't give a fuck what mcAssJacket says it doesn't really matter to them at all.
milquetoast @ 67:
as long as we act like sheep and drink the catch-2x kool-aid they are going to tell us how to vote just like they tell us what to buy...let's be real k-street runs the big show....we have to attempt to get something out of the deal otherwise were going backwards.some of this is social evolution we have to fight for what we want then make the compromises it's our turn
karl @ 30:
Think about this: Something is so rotten here that McCain, much to the distress
of many of the families of others, has gone out of his way to conceal not only his
own record as a POW, but the records of ALL POWs. That sucks.
And, by the way, the original of this video is much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlX9l1g1ZE0
[Deleted, SilentWay, Pick a name and stick to it. Posting under multiple names is a fast way to get banned. Site Monitor]
Chico Hussein @ 70:
media just wants a horse race for ratings and numbers they can sell to advertisers it's a business and we are part of the bread and circus routine
Chico Hussein @ 70:
those of us who are not under the influence know that the media has always supported the repugs and that they did everything to manipulate the Democratic candidate selection ao that they can again focus on takking down the Dem in the fall, like they did to Gore and Kerry.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 75:
brilliant, who do i send money to to make sure this plays over and over on americas televisions.
Chico Hussein @ 70 said, "Can we please make up our minds over exactly who the media has chosen for us ?"
I say,
why agonise over what flavor (or which animal)?... its all shit.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 75:
exactly.......war/violence/greed is sexy to many and sells a lot of product viagra,paxil,alcohol,tobacco.....
"behavior as a POW — a subject that, IMO, ought to be out of bounds in the forthcoming election"
{ I'm sorry Annie, but we don't allow posting in all Caps or in all Bold lettering. It's yelling. But feel free to re-post. Site Monitor}
There are places in HARLEM where a naked WHITE GUY can walk safely....
..... i saw it in DIE HARD... really ... it happened... no body armor or nothing...
You think maybe he is angry about all the stuff they did to him in the cage ? ? ?
On the other hand.... i'd like a president who ISN'T ready for a reunion with Jesus
Billy @ 73:
Actually, it's worse. The insipid, droning music is clearer, and makes watching the video even more torture.
The one thing I like about buchanan is that he's been openly criticizing mccain for quite some time. On the other hand, he wrote a book stating WWII was unnecessary. Tell that to the holocaust victims waiting for us to intervene.
i went through to mahablog (ty mahablog!) and read the comments (now closed for new additions) and i agree with a commenter named Alex who said somewhat more but in the name of conservation i'll paste in only the most especially important bit with respect to questions about mccain's statements about his intentions with respect to iraq.
"Is there a point when we say “that’s enough”? If the answer is no, then he is saying he’s also fine with violence for 100 years, but he’s just hoping it’ll stop eventually. It’s not nitpicking…it’s simple logic. "
Comment by Alex — June 9, 2008 @ 11:39 am
********************
i can't think of a better way to say it.
Those who think McCain's status as a "war hero" (which I personally think is bullshit)is sufficient to win this election have only to go back and look at the old clips of Ross Perot's running mate - James Stockdale. The first time Americans got a look at how fucked up Stockdale was, it was over for Ross Perot's campaign. It'll be the same for McCain after the first televised debate with Obama.
Joe Tseng @ 86:
The same holocaust victims we left there to die, as opposed to letting them
come to the USA or helping them escape to some other friendlier place - or
some other holocaust victims?
"Out of bounds"? Are you kidding?
When the RePubicHairs "swift boated" John Kerry, it was with fabricated bullshit. The facts about McCain are worse than the lies Kerry was smeared with.
Songbird McCain, as the Vietcong called him, willingly made Vietcong propaganda for three years and was never tortured. His only injuries came during the plane crash. And all the other PoWs who were held at the same time as McCain have said, and still say, that McCain coughed before the Vietcong ever laid a finger on him.
And that's without mentioning Daddy McCain, the admiral, protecting Johnny Songbird from a court martial despite giving aid and comfort to the enemy for three years. Meanwhile, soldiers who simply signed a piece of paper for release, without giving up secrets or admitting to anything, were court martialled unjustly. Nobody can honestly claim daddy wasn't pulling rank to protect Johnny Songbird.
Treason is always on the table when character is part of the discussion.