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I try very hard to be tolerant of others’ beliefs. I don’t pretend to have all the answers and I certainly don’t want to begrudge others answers that work for them. However, I draw the line at the whole false equivalence of the Intelligent Design/Evolution argument. In fact, even though I recognize it goes against the Constitution, I’m not sure that shouldn’t be a test for elected office: If you feel that the idea of Intelligent Design (which can not be proven in any kind of scientific way) should be taught alongside with evolution (which is as much a theory as gravity is), then you do not belong in a position where you can make that decision.
Which makes Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal all that more frightening for being on the short list for the Republican Veepstakes. On Face the Nation, Jindal tells guest host Chip Reid that even though we should teach our kids at the highest levels of science, it’s wrong to “withhold” from them the concept of Intelligent Design.
As a parent, when my kids go to schools, when they go to public schools, I want them to be presented with the best thinking. I want them to be able to make decisions for themselves. I want them to see the best data. I personally think that the life, human life and the world we live in wasn’t created accidentally. I do think that there’s a creator. I’m a Christian. I do think that God played a role in creating not only earth, but mankind. Now, the way that he did it, I’d certainly want my kids to be exposed to the very best science. I don’t want them to be–I don’t want any facts or theories or explanations to be withheld from them because of political correctness. The way we’re going to have smart, intelligent kids is exposing them to the very best science and let them not only decide, but also let them contribute to that body of knowledge.
Really? Should we also let students “decide” on whether the theory of gravity makes more sense to them than the notion of a benevolent God moving us around on puppet strings? Does that contribute to the body of scientific knowledge?
Transcripts below the fold:
REID: Let me make a sharp turn here to a different issue, an issue that has raised some controversy. Now, you were a biology major in college. I think you had a double major. But you were a biology major, and you support the teaching of intelligent design in schools. Do you have doubts about the theory of evolution?
Gov. JINDAL: A couple of things. One, I don’t think this is something the federal or state government should be imposing its views on local school districts. You know, as a conservative I think government that’s closest to the people governs best. I think local school boards should be in a position of deciding the curricula and also deciding what students should be learning. Secondly, I don’t think students learn by us withholding information from them. Some want only to teach intelligent design, some only want to teach evolution. I think both views are wrong, as a parent.
REID: But how about you personally? Where do you stand personally on the issue?
Gov. JINDAL: As a parent, when my kids go to schools, when they go to public schools, I want them to be presented with the best thinking. I want them to be able to make decisions for themselves. I want them to see the best data. I personally think that the life, human life and the world we live in wasn’t created accidentally. I do think that there’s a creator. I’m a Christian. I do think that God played a role in creating not only earth, but mankind. Now, the way that he did it, I’d certainly want my kids to be exposed to the very best science. I don’t want them to be–I don’t want any facts or theories or explanations to be withheld from them because of political correctness. The way we’re going to have smart, intelligent kids is exposing them to the very best science and let them not only decide, but also let them contribute to that body of knowledge.
That’s what makes the scientific process so exciting. You get to go there and find facts and data and test what’s come before you and challenge those theories.
No Trackbacks To “Face The Nation: Jindal Thinks Intelligent Design Should Be Taught With Evolution“
Seems like it is only a matter of time before church and state become one.
Sweet Baby Jesus in a pickup truck!
Interesting… Jindal is a Catholic. The Catholic Church accepts evolution and rejects ID. Therefore Jindal is going against the teachings of his church. I wonder if they’ll deny him communion or anything…
Also, this is a guy who thinks he exocised a demon from a friend of his. Clearly he’s a religious wacko, which makes him PERFECT for the GOP VP slot.
But do the Rethuglicans really want a VP candidate who is half McSame’s age.
You know, gravity is proven scientifically. Evolution and Intelligent Design are really on the same level. Neither is proven, nor is there a realistic way to prove either. Just because evolution has been a long standing theory, intelligent design has been around thousands of years longer. What makes evolution so much more palatable than intelligent design? It comes down to your beliefs, and what you determine to be right. I don’t like Jindal, or the mixture of religion and politics, but similar to the last post on Jindal’s exorcism comments, we have to really focus on what he is doing politically not religiously. Let’s not let ourselves fall into the republican attempts to make this election about religion!
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Pawn @ 4:
With all due respect, Pawn, I suggest that you look up the scientific definition of “theory”. Gravity and evolution ARE considered to be scientific theories. Intelligent Design is not.
He’s hiding his support of witch-burning and the revival of the Inquisition….nobody expects that.
I’m okay with teaching I.D. with evolution in science classes as long as the far right is willing to fund biologists to come teach evolution in their churchs.
Simple.
Pawn @ 6:
As an American of Indian descent, I can whole-heartedly assure you “NO!”
We lefties really need to relax with regard to racial paranoia….
This guy just officially creeped me out (in a political way).
I believe ones ability to grasp the concept of evolution is a signal as to their state in the chain.
Evolution explains how. Creationism and ID don’t say how. They instead answer the question of How with Who. It’s not even the same question when they get done answering it.
ID has its place, however. If we were attacked with a man-made virus, one might suspect we could determine whether the virus was designed by mankind or occurred naturally by studying it.
If you don’t stub out cigarettes in the urinal I won’t pee in your ash tray.
the fact Americans are sitting around, discussing whether ID should be taught along side evolution is exactly the reason why this great empire will fall. while we’re “debating” this, the rest of the world working with accepted scientific theory to make advancements. well, maybe not 8th century sha’aria law guys in the talliban so maybe you should go live with those winners.
hey, id guys, why don’t you use your id theory to cure cancer, aids, the bird flu or anything else? oh, because doing that research requires acceptance and understanding of the theory of evolution. damn.
Pawn implies that evolution and intelligent design are equivalent, and that it comes down to your beliefs.
This is simply incorrect.
Note that one problem is that we often use “evolution” to mean the data (species change over time) and the ideas which are called upon to explain the data (natural selection, sexual selection, genetic mutation, etc.)
The latter is often called the “theory” of evolution, though maybe “model” is a better word. It is based on the idea that the processes we see today (reproduction with variations interacting with the environment) have acted over a long time.
The main question is this: does the model of evolution explain the variety of life on earth? The answer from all scientists is an overwhelming YES - even though there is debate over the details and sometimes about the fundamentals of the model.
Intelligent design explains nothing. It is all based on the following idea: Is there some feature of biology that I don’t feel like finding a natural explanation (or model) for? If so, then God did it. And while the ID proponents claim that they are looking for design without necessarily invoking God, they really are.
ID and the modern model of evolution are NOT equivalent. The former was rejected as science in the 18th century. The latter is supported by every new observation. It is one of the best known things about nature.
AF
Restore the Constitution @ 8:
Good Show!
Pawn @ 4:
Sorry, I call bullshit. No, on second thought, I’m not sorry.
Politics needs to be taken away from politicians.
So Jindal thinks that my school district should be allowed to teach that the earth is flat, 6000 years old and revolves around the sun, if the “locals” approve?
(Meant . . . “and the sun revolves around the earth” . . .)
“In fact, even though I recognize it goes against the Constitution, I’m not sure that shouldn’t be a test for elected office: If you feel that the idea of Intelligent Design (which can not be proven in any kind of scientific way) should be taught alongside with evolution (which is as much a theory as gravity is), then you do not belong in a position where you can make that decision.”
I have no problem with considering what a candidate believes when I make my voting decision, because a person’s belief in poppycock tells me something about that person’s judgment and how much I could trust that person to make the right decisions in office. His Mormon religious beliefs (Jesus visited America, Native Americans came here from Israel, etc.) were among the many factors that made Romney a terrible choice.
Moreover, in the present case, Jindal is making a statement about public policy (what should be taught in classrooms), not just religious beliefs.
Actually, Jindal, the reason it’s not required to be taught beside evolution is because it’s a load of crap. I assure you the good teachers out there are discussing the scientific merits (or lack thereof) of intelligent design anyways.
I like the part when “Bobby” says he believes god “played a role” in creation. What is that supposed to mean? God is now a bit player?
Fairy tales have no place in a science classroom.
I think it’s kind of funny that people actually believe the spin that Jindal is a legitimate top shelf candidate for the VP position… and isn’t just being used as false proof that, Hey, the Republican party is really inclusive… look, we like this guy with un-white skin! Come on, we can all take one look at him, and take one look at what flies for logic and strategy, belief and acceptance in the Republican party, and tell instantly what makes him an automatic disqualification.
I mean, this is the f-ing party that you could probably poll and find out that more than 50% of people in it think that the fact that Obama’s name sounds like Osama is an automatic disqualification for him to ever be a president.
Let’s get real.
I can’t wait for the Hoff to do some hassling this season!
http://www.nbc.com/Americas_Go.....mea=262134
Don’t forget to check out “America’s Got Talent,” Tuesdays at 9/8c on NBC
I agree with everything Jindal says. But to be frank, he doesn’t go far enough.
I won’t be happy until the “flat earth” theory is taught along
with the “round” one in our Public Schools.
And my own eyes tell me the Sun revolves around the earth…
…and not the other way around, as they’re teaching our kids now…
And any women who are too assertive and unruly are probably witches,
and should be burned at the stake or at least jailed…
Back to the Dark Ages We Go!
And while we’re at it, the medical schools should be required to teach, alongside the germ theory of disease, the demon possession theory of disease. Not!
I suppose the absolute worst thing that could possibly happen would be for someone to grow up learning all sides to an issue and allow them to decide for themselves, huh?
There’s more sides to a story than what I believe, or what you believe or what someone else believes. I don’t see anything wrong with putting all the information out there, and then letting someone make up their minds.
Can’t be an “informed decision” without all the sides, can it?
People like Jindal are the cause of our country being the laughing stock for the rest of the civilized world. We are being governed by idiots.
Nicole Belle @ 7:
Why is intelligent design withheld from being SCIENTIFIC theory, because it’s religious. I’m rusty on my science, and you are correct, gravity is a theory. Thank you for correcting me. Gravitation on the other hand is a “general term describing the attractive influence that all objects with mass exert on each other.” (taken from Wikipedia). Fair enough. My argument adjusts then to that gravity has much more supporting evidence over evolution or intelligent design. To be more specific, let’s argue human evolution. Now saying that we evolved from an ape, I can’t find any evidence as such. Evolution in regards to adapting to environment and circumstances is quite logical and I won’t argue that. The larger fact is, than, that they are all theories left open to your beliefs until something comes along that pushes one from theory to proven.
While we’re at it, let’s teach astrology along side astronomy and numerology along side mathematics.
#3 Yep, the RC church does accept evolution, but following his church doctrine doesn’t allow him to suck up to his right wing buddies enough
*sigh*
This guy looks like he’s straight out of MAD magazine. So what’s the punchline Jindal?
America’s in a bad way when a state governor is encouraging the teaching of fantasy in schools. Fine, let’s go with that, but let’s also include teachings about the flying spaghetti monster, the invisible pink unicorn and every other crackpot bullshit out there. Maybe with the time left, kids could get an education during recess.
Pawn @ 4:
Gravity is a scientific theory just as evolution is a scientific theory. That is to say, they are backed by mountains of evidence pointing in the same direction. Neither is a universal law, because we puny humans don’t really know what conditions obtain in the rest of the universe. Intelligent Design may be “palatable” to those who ignore the evidence, but that should not excuse those same people from producing evidence to support their hypothesis.
I don’t know what it is to live in the South.
To believe in evolution, and liberty, yet to support politicians like Jindal.
Or to oppose him and know that I’m in the minority.
Why do I want to live in such a place?
Because of heat and humidity? Or greasy food? Or because the South hates the North?
Cultural anthropology has a place in schools, where these Christian beliefs can be compared and contrasted with other mystical concepts held by a wide assortment of other cults.
Jeanne @ 36:
i couldn’t put my finger on it… where have i seen this guy before……….you nailed it thanks
where is christopher hitchens when you need him..?
As long as they teach the ways of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as well.
RAmen brothers and sisters.
As a scientist, I greatly resent christian religious fundamentalist attempts to negate hundreds of years of empirical science, only to replace it with fairy tale stories from a made-up book of fiction.
I allow them to believe as they will, and I do not tell them how to live their lives. Why can they not keep their beliefs to themselves; and why do they feel that they have to convert everyone over to believing what they do? Is it a power thing? A money thing? I just do not get it.
Jindal is my governor, and the more I learn about him, the more disturbed I am that my bad vibes about him proved correct. He’s a fucking Catholic, man! He shouldn’t be on the VP list of a wingnut when the movement considers Catholicism only moderately better than the Middle Eastern extremists! The only reason he would be is that he is either not a very good Catholic, or more Protestant than Catholic in his way of thinking. Judging by his talking like a Pentecostal in that crap article, it’s both. Catholicism lets priests do exorcisms, not laity.
Furthermore, science has effectively posed a real dilemma for Biblical literalists. Genetically, humans originated in Africa, in the Ethiopia region to be precise. All non-Africans share one genetic marker, whether Andamanese and Indigenous Australian, to Mon, to Russian, to Yanomamo. All of them. Only in Africa do you find different markers. The Bible states humankind originated in Iraq. So…how do they explain an African origin? BTW, genetically speaking, Barack Obama, the average inbred redneck, and a Queensland Aborigine are all the same “race.” The Khoisan are the only other race.
Intelligent Design
Compassionate Conservative
Abstinence Only Sex Education
Random Combinations of Buzzwords
Strong Patriotic Freedom Democracy Liberators
Youllist Inropetric Pealigreenal Busicratonnicisticism (look it up, it’s in the bibble)
…master (de)baiters like Booby Jingle don’t need to make sense as long as they keep jerkin off their gullible moron base.
Pawn @ 32: