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Former Maryland Lt. Governor Michael Steele, who lost decisively to Ben Cardin in 2006 despite every effort to distance himself as a Republican, guest hosted on Hannity & Colmes and was bested by none other than former Democratic presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. For Steele, labels are all important–again a fascinating turn for someone who didn’t mention that he was a Republican anywhere on his campaign website in 2006. He congratulates the Democrats (let’s not call it the Democratic Party, Mike) for “learning their lesson” and being more conservative since 1994. Um, crazy Fox partisan pundit say what? He asks Michael Dukakis how that gibes with having Barack Obama — the most liberal Senator, natch– as the titular head of the party. Dukakis makes the only response you can to such hackery:
STEELE: But let me ask you this, Governor: I’m really intrigued by this idea that all of the sudden labels don’t matter, because you know, the left didn’t seem to have a problem throwing around “right wing conservatives,” you know, “conservatives” as a pejorative term, you know, taking out of context the quotes of Republican leaders and you know, painting images of them and labeling them as racists, you know, turning back the clock on civil rights. So why, all of the sudden, doesn’t that matter? Why don’t these labels matter all of the sudden when you got a way left-of-center candidate leading the Democratic Party?
DUKAKIS: Who is a “way left-of-center candidate”?
STEELE: Uh, Mr. Obama.
DUKAKIS: Oh, I think you’re delusional. I think you’re delusional.
It’s FOXNews, of course they’re delusional.
Full transcripts below the fold:
STEELE: I really appreciate what I’ve seen from the Democrats over the past six or so years. They’ve really learned their lesson from 1994. They have found what I call ‘Trojan horses’ Democrats who are, you know, almost like conservatives, in many respects, and you look at Virginia and Pennsylvania, the elections they’ve had there. How does this new Democratic approach square with Barack Obama’s certainly more liberal—and as considered the most liberal member in the Senate—how does that line up? How does the Blue Dogs work with the…you know, a dog like Obama, the lead dog like Obama?
DUKAKIS: Michael, you can’t get off that label.
STEELE: Well, I think it’s important. Labels mean things.
DUKAKIS: But wait a second, look at the country’s fiscal condition today. When Bill Clinton left office, we’re on our way to the elimination of the national debt. Remember?
STEELE: I do.
DUKAKIS: Now we have a national debt that is double what it was when George Bush took office and it’s going to be our kids and grandkids that will have to pay it off. What is conservative about that? Now Obama is a guy who believes you gotta pay your bills. I happen to believe you gotta pay your bills.
STEELE: Yeah, but he wants to pay…he wants to pay everybody else’s bills with my money!
DUKAKIS: I think that’s a rather conservative position. But don’t tell me…of course, it’s our money, but it’s also our Social Security, it’s also our roads, it’s also our …
STEELE: No, it’s my money. It’s not our money, it’s my money.
DUKAKIS: Well, it’s your money, but it’s also your country and it’s your kids and your grandkids.
STEELE: That’s right.
DUKAKIS: And everything I’ve seen about McCain’s approach to this suggests that if anything, he’s going to increase the national debt. Now what’s conservative about that?
STEELE: There’s a lot…there’s a lot…there’s a lot there that’s conservative…but …
DUKAKIS: So I think we need to get off the labels, take a good hard look at what these candidates are really talking about. If we do that, Obama’s going to win this election, because the overwhelming majority of the American people are with Obama when it comes to his approach to this, not McCain.
STEELE: But let me ask you this, Governor: I’m really intrigued by this idea that all of the sudden labels don’t matter, because you know, the left didn’t seem to have a problem throwing around “right wing conservatives,” you know, “conservatives” as a pejorative term, you know, taking out of context the quotes of Republican leaders and you know, painting images of them and labeling them as racists, you know, turning back the clock on civil rights. So why, all of the sudden, doesn’t that matter? Why don’t these labels matter all of the sudden when you got a way left-of-center candidate leading the Democratic Party?
DUKAKIS: Who is a “way left-of-center candidate”?
STEELE: Uh, Mr. Obama.
DUKAKIS: Oh, I think you’re delusional. I think you’re delusional.
STEELE: The most…well then, let me ask you, why is he identified as the most liberal member of the United States Senate?
COLMES: By one group…
STEELE: By one group? Well, there are 92% who aren’t as liberal as he is…
[crosstalk]
DUKAKIS: This is the one guy I know running for the presidency who strongly opposed this stupid war…That was a liberal…
STEELE: Yeah well, we could have that discussion later…
DUKAKIS: No, no. I don’t know what to say. Ask the American people what they think about this war. But he was somebody who strongly opposed it. That was a very conservative response to what I think was a very dumb decision. Wasn’t it?
STEELE: I appreciate that, Governor, we got to move on to some other stuff. Good to have you with us.
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Delusional by definition.
The Republicans have spent a lot of time and money demonizing the left. They will call any opponent to the left of Ghengis Khan a left/liberal. Why? Because they’ve created a psychological reflex reaction in their base, and it doesn’t matter how true it is. What matters is only that it works on them.
No. He is a right winger. If he were liberal, he wouldn’t have received any serious consideration in the media to start with.
I always considered Steele sort of an empty suit, and you can see here that he gets his ass handed to him because he’s too stupid to understand the facts. Anytime these guys are up against someone who can see past the spin they’re in trouble.
I love old Dukakis, good to see him out and about and shredding away. When he was Governor, he’s ride the subway to work with his two state cops. The best years of my life were when he ran the state in the 80’s. It has gone deeper down the tubes ever since and Patrick will be half hamstrung by the mess.
You got owned! Where was that guy in ‘88? Where was tht fire when they talked about raping his wife or where was that fire when they ran the Willie Horton ad? I know that running for President puts you in a straight jacket, but we have to learn that Democrats win….
…when we attack the other sides strengths
…when we are lose enough to attack the suppositions of the other side.
Atilla the Trollop, Spied Upon @ 3:
amen,,, and Steele is a jerk, and terrible at TV.
Correction: ‘Double-Stuffed Delusional’
[Deleted. Off topic, unabashed blogwhoring-Sitemonitor]
Just curious, if anyone can correct me on here, but wouldn’t an avowed ’socialist’, Sen Bernie Sanders of VT, be more ‘liberal’ than pretty much anyone, including Sen Barack Obama? Wouldn’t the label, ’socialist’ anything, by definition, be more ‘liberal’ than anyone who’s a Democrat? If that’s true, then Mssrs. Steele and his ilk, can shove it with their ‘most liberal Senator’ shtick. I’m just saying…
Thanks for being with us but we gotta move on to some other stuff where we won’t actually get a public bitch-slapping by a man who we call a wimp….
Anytime Fox News robots get their backside handed to them they have have to move on to the next segment, wonder why?
No!
This was NOT an example of Dukakis doing ANYthing but once AGAIN NOT defending liberalism. Denying it, sure…but will he call them on their assumption that it is something that is BAD??? I didn’t hear it! In fact, at the end when he said that being against the war was CONSERVATIVE?!?!?!!? WTF?!?!?
How can anyone here think that they just saw something good? It was Dukakis who was the one who GAVE conservatives their ‘in’ back in ‘88 when he refused to defend what liberal meant. He ceded territory and we have yet to recover and here he is doing it AGAIN and we progressives are sitting here saying “woo hoo, go Dukakis”?????? So bad was Dukakis’ flubbing of this that even idiot movie directors were able to show what SHOULD have been said when being “attacked” for being “liberal”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWRVbWMvi7c
Chris Rich @ 5:
That is very cool. I have great memories of Cleveland under Kucinich in the 70’s. The corporations HATED him.
Unfortunately, the last thing that Obama will ever be, either in appearance in reality, is a left of center candidate. This is evidenced by his press conference today, where he has now declared that he reserves the right to alter the number of brigades that he wishes to withdraw under his phased [as opposed to immediate] withdrawal of troops from Iraq, claiming that this is contingent upon conditions on the ground. Not exactly the speech that the troops were hoping for from this alleged agent of hope, since they realize that the more time that they are in Iraq, the greater the possibility that they will return stateside severely burned, blinded, brain damaged, missing their arms and legs, paralyzed from the neck down and suffering from the effects from PTSD.
Proud2bHumble @ 8:
But not environmentally progressive. He’s just not green.
When did pundits start talking like stoned out adolescents…you know…you know…you know…?
Steele was describing republicans in that . All the spin.
it’s all bullshit, Glad to see Dukakis stick to his guns and call them on it.
9 Paddy Says: [Deleted. Off topic, unabashed blogwhoring-Sitemonitor]
What is abashed blogwhoring like?
I guess I can see why Steele lost his election. Is he really that stupid?
Epinnoia @ 2:
On our Ship of State the republiscums think everything inboard of the starboard rail is liberal, which makes their position all wet.
Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 20:
I live in Maryland, and yes, he really is that stupid.
Baghdad Bob had more credibility on his worst day than that moron Steele has on a good day if there is such a thing for this tool.
Those Oreo shots to the head in Baltimore were too much.
Steele’s as in over his head here as he was against Cardin. Dukakis remains a really good guy who got a raw deal.
Atilla the Trollop, Spied Upon @ 3:
Well…”Right winger”?? Not all that.
But…Obama definitely isn’t what he sold himself as to the base.
According to Keith Poole of UCSD (No liberal, he.) Obama and Clinton are in about the same place politically.
11th and 20th respectively in the Senate and 88th and 188th overall in the Congress.
When being made a fool
and stuck for a response,
end the discussion!
These Repub simpletons are ought to be dumped!
Peter G @ 16:
…cuz he’s way out in right field, which is the wrong field…gotta be in left field to be affective…but he is a dip with very milky logic…any greening would just lead to more junk consumerism.
Steele is usually a pretty rational guy, but yeah, he was being delusional by following Hannity’s talking points on this issue. This idea that Obama is the most liberal Senator when the Wall Street Journal is calling him Bush’s Third term is insane. We’re into July and they still haven’t figured out how to attack Obama yet.
ysbaddaden @ 19:
“I’m embassased to say this, but my blog is the bestest in the whole world. Please stop by and visit.” :-)
Mister Anderson @ 29:
When has Steele ever been rational? He’s a moron.
OldDave @ 30:
That usually works on me. Just sayin.
Notice that there is a lot of “some say” and “has been labeled as” going on there?
“People claim that Obama is the most liberal senator”
Amazing what one can peddle when all one needs is opinion.
I loved Gov. Dukakis. A very kind, thoughtful man. I got involved with his campaign a bit through a friend when he was running for president, and because of that, I got to go to the WTC in Boston for election night. It was wild. I was sad when Gov. Dukakis lost. I recently read an interview with him — can’t remember where. He said that he blamed himself for the trouble this country is in. Why? Because if he responded to Bush Sr. and defended himself (i.e., the Willie Horton scare ad, among other things), maybe he would have won, and, therefore, no Bush Sr., so no Bush Jr. I was stunned, touched, I don’t know what, by this comment. All I know was he did a good job as governor, and he is a good and honest man. It was our loss.
Bartleby @ 13:
But Obama isn’t liberal, and doesn’t want to be defined as one anymore than he wants to be defined as conservative. He comes to the field with the old philosophy of, ‘I believe in what I believe in, and I come to conclusions without consulting handbooks on how to toe party lines.’
I like how Steele makes reference to the Blue Dog Democrats when he talks about the Democrats “learning their lesson” and becoming more conservative. The Blue Dogs are not Democrats at all. They are the result of Republican attempts to stack the deck by slithering into office passing themselves off as Democratic candidates. They have voted in lockstep with Bush and the Republicans on nearly every issue.
If it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck, don’t insult my intelligence by suggesting that it’s a Golden Retriever.
“It’s not our money; it’s my money!”
Uh, no. Obama’s plan isn’t to tax you and nobody else, Steele. Stop acting like a spoiled rich brat.
Meat - I should have mentioned - and I did in a previous post (I do it as often as I can) - that Obama is guilty of the same thing as Dukakis. I DO believe Obama is liberal. At least, more liberal than the Republicans, obviously… But you’re right… acting as if his beliefs are separate from established ideological norms… bugs the crap out of me. Even if it MIGHT be a way to win an election….
Speaking of Dukakis, why do the good ones get away? Makes me think of the country we could have had.
Erroll @ 15:
I just don’t understand what’s wrong with him saying he’s willing to let the conditions on the ground factor into his decision, especially when he says that so far none of the evidence he’s been presented with has caused him to believe that he’ll have to alter his current proposal. Unlike Bush, who actually has access to all of the information from the field and ignores any he disagrees with, Obama is not in a position to get all of that information at the moment. After his meetings this summer, he’ll have access to some more information and may find out something that he doesn’t already know that will lead him to change course. That’s just being honest. For all we know, he might find that he can safely pull them out quicker than his original plan. Can we please stop acting like he said today that he’s fine with keeping our troops over there for 100 years? He wants out, but he wants the withdrawal to be as safe and effective as possible. We all want our troops home safely and this mess to end, and there’s really no good way to pull out of Iraq without problems, so we need to make sure we make the best of a terrible situation and limit loss of life both to our troops and to Iraqis. It’s a complicated issue that can’t be neatly summed up in a sound bite or two.
no steele it’s your guy you voted for and support that has put us in this mess BUSH….fiscally responsible my ass
oh steele nice imitation of hannity. dollar has drop 40% since he became president…..give it a rest with your tabloid crap
BEST LINE OF THE CHAT:
OWNED. Dukakis took apart everything Steele said in short, simple, pointed terms even the knuckle dragging FOX audience could understand.
Steele came off looking like the greedy little punk he is. “My money, Mine!” Priceless.
Brings to mind another item that isn’t talked about too much…intelligence. In the last 50 years or probably more the voters have been afraid of of intelligent candidates, as if they were going to put something over on them. Stevenson, Humphrey, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry and many others have probably come across as too smart to be a regular guy. (Carter finished where at Anapolis vs. McCain?, but he did beat the likable Ford–exception.)
Great, so we end up with “likable” low intellect types who need others around them to do their thinking for them. They read prepared speeches, but can’t handle free form press conferences, or Q&As. We who become cynical start wondering WHO is running the country….Kissenger, Nancy Reagan, Cheney…..? Who’s going to run McCain’s administration, Romney, Joe L., Condi? Heaven help us!
He says that “conservative” has been used in a perjorative fashion by “liberals” and goes on to call Obama “the most liberal member of the Senate” as if there is somehow something wrong with such a thing, if it were true.
He’s the token black conservative, and not very convincding I might add