AC360: Ed Schultz Calls Out Cliff May
By Nicole Belle Friday Jul 04, 2008 6:00pm
Download | play Download | play (h/t Heather)
Radio talk show host Ed Schultz has taken all he can take and he can't takes no more. On Anderson Cooper 360 yesterday, he blew up when PNACer Cliff May, Director of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, suggested that the left wants us to lose in Iraq as a way to teach the US a lesson on the evils of imperialism.
MAY: Yeah, I think also on some of the left wing blogs, Obama is taking some hits. But this does move him to the center and look, I want to put the...I'm not a big fan of his, but I'm going to put the best spin on it, which is that he understands the situation...fairly...well. Certainly better than the Daily Kos does and some of those on the left who would like to see America defeated in Iraq as a demonstration exercise that US power can never, never be used for good.
SCHULTZ: That I am...whoa, whoa! That is absolutely outrageous! That is outrageous for you to say people on the left want to lose in Iraq. I'm not going to sit here and listen to that. This is the Fourth of July, we are Americans, we don't believe in fighting in Iraq the way we are doing. We are depleting our resources. That's ridiculous. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Now this kind of cheap shot with no foundation infuriates me as much as it does Schultz, and his anger is certainly understandable and justified. But this is where I have to split from Big Ed and suggest that we on the left have to get a whole lot smarter about these kind of appearances. The key to these kind of exchanges is not to get angry, but to rob them of their framing and put them on the defensive. May's assertion is absurd on its face, so put that back in his lap and ask him to prove it--name these mythical leftists. And then ask him how he defines "winning" in Iraq. I mean, you have a signatory to the infamous PNAC letter to Clinton recommending that he take out Saddam, how well have any of their premises turned out in reality? Don't dignify this guy who has been on the wrong side of every argument by accepting his frame, Ed. Show him for the chump he is.
Full transcripts below the fold:
MAY: Yeah, I think also on some of the left wing blogs, Obama is taking some hits. But this does move him to the center and look, I want to put the…I’m not a big fan of his, but I’m going to put the best spin on it, which is that he understands the situation…fairly…well. Certainly better than the Daily Kos does and some of those on the left who would like to see America defeated in Iraq as a demonstration exercise that US power can never, never be used for good.
SCHULTZ: That I am…whoa, whoa! That is absolutely outrageous! That is outrageous for you to say people on the left want to lose in Iraq. I’m not going to sit here and listen to that. This is the Fourth of July, we are Americans, we don’t believe in fighting in Iraq the way we are doing. We are depleting our resources. That’s ridiculous. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
MAY: Well, Ed, tell me how you’re going to win in Iraq. Just tell me how you’re going to win in Iraq if you have no troops there.
SCHULTZ: You don’t even know the definition of “win” is.
MAY: Tell me the definition of win. If I don’t know, you tell me. Tell me.
SCHULTZ: The fact is we’re depleting our resources. We don’t have enough money to do this. We are absolutely hurting ourselves staying in Iraq. The Iraqi people need to step up.
MAY: They do. They do, and they are.
SCHULTZ: The real enemy here is in Afghanistan. For you t sit here and say that liberals don’t want to defend this country is unconscionable. That is absolutely outrageous.
MAY: I didn’t say it of you, I didn’t ….there are those on the left who would think that a US defeat in Iraq would be like the US defeat in Vietnam: an object lesson on the use of force.
SCHULTZ: Listen, Mr. May, I don’t know where you get your information but I spoke to Barack Obama face to face today.
MAY: Oh, congratulations to you.. I’m very….
SCHULTZ: And I asked him if he wanted to get out of Iraq. He said he was going to get us out of Iraq. I asked him if we were going to into Afghanistan with more troops, because that’s what President Bush wants to do now. He said he would support sending more troops into Afghanistan.
MAY: I’m glad they agree.
SCHULTZ: Now that is fighting the War on Terror.
MAY: I’m glad that Obama and Bush agree on the need to also fight the battle in Afghanistan. These are both very important battles in one global conflict. We don’t want to lose either one.
SCHULTZ: It’s something Bush hasn’t done well, I might add. It’s something Bush hasn’t done well at all.
First!!!
I saw this the other day and I was so glad that there was finally a real Democrat on television that cleaned that right wing hacks clock!!!
Thanks Ed Schultz, we need more like ya!!
Just look at this list of losers. They are always wrong.
Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett
Jeffrey Bergner, John Bolton, Paula Dobriansky
Francis Fukuyama, Robert Kagan ,Zalmay Khalilzad,
William Kristol ,Richard Perle, Peter W. Rodman,
Donald Rumsfeld, William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber,
Paul Wolfowitz, R. James Woolsey, Robert B. Zoellick and Cliff May.
May they all end up in the Hague!
It is precisely because of sh*t-for-brains like May why we are in this most unfortunate predicament in the history of our country. Check out this link of the true reason why we are mired in such a disaster: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/luckovich/entries/20...
Cliff May should be particularly ashamed of himself. He's obviously an articulate person and knows better. He's completely sold himself out to the corporate/industrial complex. I hope he is one day held accountable for his sick salesmanship of something he knows, deep down, is immoral and unconscionable.
Weak minds need to use childish rhetoric in order to feel more confident about their own position, and that's all there is to it.
Another way of putting it back in their laps is to say that people like May put their bank accounts, and their pet political projects, ahead of the well being of the country. In other words, they are traitors.
Bahahahaha... Cliff May just got his arse kicked, polished, and handed back to him on a platter, delivered personally by Jeff Gannon dressed only in a ribbon. I love it.
Every time I see this clown May on tv he is lying to the American public big time. Every time, the guy has no shame.
Say what?!
Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, what the hell is that?!
It's really amazing how these guys can come up with all these preposterous names for their organizations.
I live in an democracy other than America, so I know what real democracy is.
Don't need mr. may's fake fascist crap, thanks...
I always thought that it was a mistake for Air America to fire Schultz. Now they have crap on their station, and Rhodes could only rant aimlessly for so long before opening her big mouth and making a big blunder. Schultz was the midwestern voice of moderation. Look, I am an vegetarian and animal rights activist, but if he wants to hunt and fish, that is his choice. He may have a different perspective on hunting and still be a Democrat. I feel that he was kicked off because he talked about fishing and hunting, and even though he dealt with real issues, especially after Hurricane Katrina hit (I remember his news coverage was superb that day), he did not appeal with the far left of the party. How is this a 50 state strategy? I am glad that they still let him talk on TV because he is way better than Rush Limbaugh, who is not making 408 million dollars a year for blowing hot air. Keep on fighting, Ed, this country needs you now more than ever.
What disturbs me about Cliff May's comments is that he's succeeded in making it about "Winning in Iraq" -- and at least Ed turned that around a little and said Cliff May was accusing the left of "not wanting to defend the US"
But in actual fact, what the hell are we doing trying to "Win" where we have no place BEING in the first place?
Cliff May's position is like the position of a drunken compulsive gambler, gambling away the life savings and (all future earnings, on credit!) of a family.
When his wife comes and tries to drag his sorry ass away from the slot machines, yells back at her "You just don't want me to WIN!"
THAT'S what's wrong with Cliff May's argument, and THAT'S what Ed Schultz should have called him on.
Cliff May should be particularly ashamed of himself.
People like Cliff May HAVE no shame.
The trick to debating these assholes is to not get pulled into "winning" or "not winning" in Iraq. We can't win that semantic nonsense. Stick to the facts: The "war" in Iraq was a mistake, lives have been wasted in vain, we are mistrusted all over the planet because of it, it should have never happened and we must get out as soon as possible, formally apologize to the Iraqi people, offer reparations and proceed with war crimes trials.
May and his co-horts have no right to make statements like that. The audacity of smearing people who want the war to end! Does he have loved ones serving in the militery? Has he joined? Christ! These warmongers are traitors who are destroying our country!
cf - Great minds think alike.
This clif may is why the republicans are disliked soo much. Yeah the gift that keeps on giving.
The other headline here could have easily been:
"Cliff May Praises Obama's Iraq Policy"
Ugh.
I'm gonna watch that clip again ... that was so very satisfying. Ed Schultz, I applaud you !
Ed could also have replied that it's up to the Iraqis to "win," not us because it's their country.
There are many on the right who are betraying our country and the American public by seeking to squander our wealth and influence on foreign adventurism and transferring the public till away from infrastructure to the Military Industrial Complex. It is, as we are seeing now, unsustainable and will lead to social decay at home while placing the US at greater risk internationally as it sows resentment, diminishing our ability to lead by example and diplomacy.
It is the right wingers, like Clifford May, who are leading the United States perilously close to economic collapse at home, throwing our military into disarray and diminishing our influence and credibility abroad.
good schultz gave him some of their own medicine
that less than patriotic bull shxt....is old propaganda
one other thing i'm easily confused...when rove had his discussion with alan colmes he wouldn't call the iraqi conflict... war......is it a war or is it going after criminals/terrorists who don't represent a country....so what is winning anyways??
Hum, now that Cliff May certainly doesn't look like a guy that we would meet at an Applebee's salad bar. He must be elitist democrat...
SCHULTZ: And I asked him if he wanted to get out of Iraq. He said he was going to get us out of Iraq. I asked him if we were going to into Afghanistan with more troops, because that’s what President Bush wants to do now. He said he would support sending more troops into Afghanistan.
MAY: I’m glad they agree.
SCHULTZ: Now that is fighting the War on Terror.
Hate to tell you this, Ed and Cliff (and Barrack) but the so-called "War on Terror" is pure bamboozle.
Remember this one from the guy who should be our nominee?
Democrat John Edwards Wednesday repudiated the notion that there is a “global war on terror,” calling it an ideological doctrine advanced by the Bush administration that has strained American military resources and emboldened terrorists.
"We need a post-Bush, post-9/11, post-Iraq military that is mission focused on protecting Americans from 21st-century threats, not misused for discredited ideological purposes. By framing this as a war, we have walked right into the trap the terrorists have set that we are engaged in some kind of clash of civilizations and a war on Islam.”
Duh.
They're still pulling this "win in Iraq" bullshit because they study polls that show how ignorant Americans still are. These polls give neocons like this guy the confidence to make bold faced lies and deceptions fucking 5 years after the unjust attack on Iraq. Luckily most people now oppose this war and have figured out the truth so neocon snake oil salesmen like Cliff May are increasingly becoming laughing stocks.
He's right in my case, but I don't know if opposition to US goals in Iraq is the position of a leftist so much as just a decent human being. The US invaded Iraq so it could commandeer Iraq's resources and real estate; I would have them fail in this. The problem isn't Bush's failure to invade Iraq properly, it's that he invaded it at all.
TheNextDylan (you should be banned for that nick alone),
Ed Schultz never worked for and could never have been fired from AAR as best I can tell.
Project for a New American Century.
I find it so telling that the "new American century" they seek is a continuation of the worst parts the last century.
The 20th Century was bloody, and there is money in blood. And the PNAC is really just a group of sales reps.
These guys rep the Carlyle Group and Halliburton.
Does Coca-Cola's national sales manager get to go on Andrea Cooper's(sexist remark sorry, he is such a ho) show and talk about
nutrition?
These guys are upper management in MIC.
String'em up with the rest of the traitors.
There I said it. I have been holding off with the term "string'em up" for a few weeks. Thinking it's violent and might cause
trouble for C&L.
Fuck it.
We all need to go to Washington with some rope.
Lot's of it.
TheNextDylan @ 11:
Um Randi Rhodes is back on the air and it aint Air America!!
http://www.novamradio.com/live/
Pssst... Cliff May hates America.
And freedom.
According to a 1996 paper drafted by prominent hard-line neo-conservatives -- including some, like Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, who would later serve in senior posts in Cheney's office and the Pentagon in the run-up to the invasion -- ousting Hussein and installing a pro-Western leader was the key to destabilising Israel's Arab enemies and/or bending them to its will. This would permit the Jewish state not only to escape the Oslo peace process, but also to secure as much of the occupied Palestinian (and Syrian) territories as it wished.
Indeed, getting rid of Hussein and occupying Iraq would not only tighten Israel's hold on Arab territories, in this view; it could also threaten the survival of the Arab and Islamic worlds' most formidable weapon against Israel -- OPEC -- by flooding the world market with Iraqi oil and forcing the commodity's price down to historic lows.
That's how it looked five years ago anyway.
.
Cliff May seeks a victory from our occupation of a sovereign nation that never attacked us...
Who wins from an occupation like that?
Who looses in an occupation like that?
What is won and what is lost... exactly?
Does Cliff May think staying in Iraq another 100 years is a 100 year victory?
Does Cliff May think leaving Iraq is a defeat... ever?
.
theWalrus @ 13:
I agree that they basically have no shame but I know the man, before he goes to sleep, occasionally realizes what a complete douche he is. I strongly agree with your argument about the need to frame the argument in such a way that winning or not winning is not the issue, but in which it is posited that the war was fought on false pretenses, that our presence there is not desired, that the American people do not favor our presence there, and certainly the Iraqi people do not. Anyway.
"Don’t dignify this guy who has been on the wrong side of every argument by accepting his frame, Ed. Show him for the chump he is."
clapclapclapclapclap...
bingo.
Athough his voice sound like him, Ed is no Rush Limbaugh.
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 31:
who wins hunt oil,chevron,BP, shell....halliburton,KBR and blackwater......that's all that matters and what will they say to the little people is that we don't undertstand the quest for resources is for national security...saddam moved away from the pegged u.s. dollar to crude the federal reserve didn't like it. he also kicked out oil companies to nationalize the oil for iraq
he had too much potential control of the global economy/also becoming wealthier israel doesn't like that...iran is now doing the same thing using a basket of currencies for crude....russia may follow
kerplunk @ 34:
GOOD one is too many
George Carlin said it best about these self-proclaimed patriots of being proud to be an American. Pride involves having some role in the outcome you are so proud of. What did these new era America First jingoists ever contribute to any of the causes that America stands for? All they know how to do is urge public policy and foreign adventures that fly in the face of everything just, democratic, and constitutional, then defend these policies by labeling as traitors, appeasers, or dupes all real defenders of America and humanity. When the war crimes tribunals are finally convened, those who took no risks, paid no price, and gave no treasure should be the first ones tried and convicted. Jesse Helms died of natural causes, but there is yet time to imprison the neocons and warmongers.
So now it's up to the people who think this war is a sham to define what winning is, and not the people who shilled for it.
I'd say that it is the job of the "moderator" to call their guests on such outlandish B.S.
They never do however (since Donohue was canned), and are oft time the purvayer of the BS.
Thanks Big Ed! These wingnut talking points are sooo bad it's sickening. (it's because the wingnuts 'frame' the debate to make Liberals look bad instead of offering any kind of worthwhile discussion or solution. They're too busy blaming instead of helping) They truly deserve the 'Lunitic Fringe' label.
and tell me, how many Republicans are praying for a bloody Terrorist attack on American soil so they might win the 2008 Presidential election??? sick bastards, all of them...
cf @ 12:
Excellent analogy!
You can NEVER get a good clean answer when you press Republicans for a description of "winning" in Iraq. You get circular logic, mis-representations, incorrect assumptions, lies, accusations, and finally claims of "I'm a better patriot than you."
Best answer: "You, sir, are an idiot."
lex @ 40:
what did scott mcClellen tell us ongoing politicization(sp)......ongoing linguistic framing/blaming
karl @ 42:
That's because Republican'ts don't have anything else.
What a weak response...
When are the people on the left on TV going to get a back bone and tell people like Cliff May that they should be in prison for deceiving Americans into supporting an evil act of war on Iraq and at the same time protecting the very people who attacked us on 911 ...the Saudis!
So what... Ed Shultz gets defensive and a little testy while that bastard sits there and grins... how weak.
How about explaining that while the Saudi royals smile and shake our hands and take our money their people support Al Qeada?
How about pointing out that the vast majority of foreigners that go into Iraq to kill Americans are Saudis?
Getting all testy doesnt make the point at all.
Cliff May -- What an arrogant, lying a*****e.
My hat's off to Schultz.
We cannot let these pseudo-patriots like May get away with that c**p anymore. They've had a free joyride with this for far too long. It is NOT patriotic to treat your fellow American citizens who have the intelligence and the courage to question the idiotic, self-defeating, un-American policies of the B/C administration as if they were your enemy.
Cliff May, redirect your efforts toward something more your speed, like changing lightbulbs, or licking stamps and putting them on envelopes.
A little background on Cliff May and The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1475.html
Snowball @ 47:
Uh, no, I don't have any need to view gay porn, thanks.
Gerald Gibson @ 45:
Has the irony hit you yet?
Good post, Nicolle. I agree that framing and reframing the issue like Rachel Maddow does so well is the best way to take on these buffoons. But to some degree, I'm glad that there are people out there that will get mad and show some passion when the PNACers start to spew their stuff.
And Schultz is right, we are all Americans, but the people on the left want what is best for America, we just don't see that endless war in the Middle East is in the best interests of America... the oil companies, maybe, but not all Americans.
That's the way to talk to these people, Ed was furious and he was right.
I saw it on television that night.
This weasel May had to be stopped...
Ed pushed him of the Cliff.
We shun them. Not to put too fine a point on it, but why are they even invited to discuss their long ago discredited views? The world weeps.
Gerald Gibson @ 45:
we tried that when we told them the (9-11) planes that destroyed the WT towers were taken over/flown by saudis....didn't seem to work...the already know and they don't care....many of us here know it's a bumper sticker....schultz can't/wouldn't be able to get into that
people don't want to hear the truth..saddam wasn't going play their game anymore
Go Big Eddie! You are 100% spot on. Get angry!
I for one am tired of the right wingers who have nothing but advice for the left. The dems are angry, watch out they is get'n riled up. Well you know what, I am friggin' angry.
Sorry, Nicole, but when someone says crap like this it calls for an angry response. If this doesn't, what does? We need to get angry when it is appropriate. Answering them back in the fashion you suggest is fine for standard issue stuff. However, calling people like May out does nothing except give them the chance to repeat or add on. They never explain because they don't feel like they need to. Demonstrating anger at some ludicrous remark gets their attention, throws them off. Sometimes it pays to get in the bully's face.
Besides we have every right to be angry and it is high time we stood up. Then maybe our lack lustre representatives will too!
Viva la Revolution!
Che Schultz!
I have been watching all this closely and posting on these blogs for the past 7 years and I hardly EVER see the truth said on TV... on these blogs I see it all the time... but on TV.. almost never... so what if the people dont want to hear the truth... the democrats pussying out is exactly why I helped the Ron Paul people try to take over the Republican party... if people just give up and dont keep pounding away at the truth and try to take action then these asswipes just get away with it... and that includes Obama letting them get away with it even if he does "win" ...
Gerald Gibson @ 55:
Oh. Ron Paul supporter. That explains the bitterness.
You're absolutely right. For far too long, ridiculous Republican "arguments" have been met with shrill emotion. A far better approach would be to meet their specious arguments with measured reason. I sit and watch my parents lap up everything Bill Kristol says, because he "sounds" reasonable - i.e. he doesn't get excited. Republican policy rarely is based in reality. It would be exceedingly easy to poke holes in just about any of it.
Pedro @ 57:
Are you kidding? He sure gets excited when Republican'ts talk about killing more poor brown 3rd world people.
All Neocons/PNAC talking heads have one thing in common ,they push for wars that they want others to fight in.
They all use the same language challenging others patriotism when their own ideas of wars put to question...
Neglect democracy at home,while trying to make it the cause of wars abroad.
Randy @ 59:
Yep. Democracy at gunpoint.
my favorite Right wing questions:
a) why do liberals want to lose in iraq?
b) why don't liberals recognize the islamist dangers we face?
If May wants us to win so fucking bad why the hell isn't he over there helping out ? Oh yea he is just another chicken shit chicken hawk. Every time I see this little creep I wish I was on the set with him so I could go up afterwards and set that worthless fuck straight . Not a one of these right wing assholes can tell any of us what actually be considered a win in that theater of war.
Bush Is A Yankee @ 44:
Bush Is A Yankee @ 44:
Bush Is A Yankee @ 44:
BIGBONEDED @ 61:
It looks like they have already won the war. They invaded, set up a puppet government and now are getting the no bid contracts on the oil, which is why they invaded in the first place.
BIGBONEDED @ 61:
Nah. They'd all just have a doctor diagnose them with "pilonidal cysts" (lumps in the arse) like Tubby Limbaugh to avoid the fighting.
Cheney, Bush, Rove, Addington, May, Gonzales, Yoo, the list goes on. If hubris and incompetence were virtues, these clowns would have succeeded with their scheme of "full spectrum global hegemony" long ago, but they haven't and they won't. No one ever does. Too bad so many suffer and die whenever this particular variety of scum rises to the surface of the pond. They always do. Until we understand why and how that happens, history will require that we continue to retake the course.
sulphurdunn @ 65:
And Junior's Yale degree was in history. Ironic?
What a bunch of brainwashed neocon turds. "War on Terror", Win In Iraq, Support the Troops, blah, blah, blah. Their brains can only hold about 6-7 half baked ideas at once. I say we put them on the front lines in Iraq and let them "win" the war.
Comrade Rou @ 67:
Please. The proper phrase is "The War Against Terror." So we must support Bush's T.W.A.T.
I love the fact that he brought up Vietnam. Anyone think he actually served in Vietnam? Didn't think so.
The whole problem stems from the Rove/Cheney/Bush/PNAC sales job that we were in a war.There was no war till Bush gang sold it to us as a war and then made it
a war by attacking Iraq.We all know this,but we allow the loud-mouthed assholes to continue to reinforce their rhetorical bull shit while we sit there with our finger in our nose while we ask each other "how can these guys get away with this shit?"
Well, it`s because they`re criminals who sold us the snake oil with the threat of anthrax and mushroom clouds if we didn`t buy it.Not us,but the rest of the American People who watch FOX,CNN,CBS,NBC,ABC,et., al..I don`t buy any of it and didn`t ,but fighting the bastards that make up the rules as they go along is like trying to get heard in my family growing up--it just ain`t going to happen.So I grieve the loss of America.
And if you think Obama is the answer,well his white guy sold his black guy down the river on FISA.I can pray,and that`s what I`ll do..
joeedugan @ 69:
Eh, he probably served his country by ensuring that the Vietnamese didn't invade Texas, just like Junior.
Bush Is A Yankee @ 58:
So because the poster uses "Pedro" as a handle you mention the word "brown" in a hateful and patronizing tone even while sounding like a sympathetic liberal phony. You belong at redstate or stormfront.
The one thing I wish Ed had said was, "This is not a war, it's an occupation. There is no way to win an occupation. There's only occupy, then leave."
Gerald Gibson @ 55:
i don't hear the complete truth at least what i perceived to be the truth either.....you may know more than me. i personally liked some of paul's ideas/philosophy i don't want to get into that....i do respect him but his message was idealistic. you can't just turn the titantic around that easy.....but changes do need to be made.
it's a process and ron paul was part of that process it's going to take maybe twenty yrs. but i don't appreciate the pxssy comment it's complicated with many variables nobody has all the answers...but getting out of iraq is a start for me.
Dale H @ 72:
And if your opinion ever means anything to me, I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
Has the Rightwing "patriots" ever offered any evidence that any major or notable liberal or Democrat has ever said he or she wants the USA to lose in Iraq? I can't recall, but apart from Cliff May there are a bunch of Republicans and conservatives who made that claim. I think they're just trying to project their own despicable views onto liberals and Dems.
Someone should keep a running tab of folks like Cliff "Claven" May making such statements.
Vincennes @ 76:
They don't have to offer any evidence. People believe what is constantly thrown at them from the media. Goebbels' method.
Johnny2Bad @ 17:
why not when thoes oil companys take over in iraq we,ll still have our sand rollers pimping for the corporations , sixteen months my ass!
Well that sure is comforting to know that the Republicans say the "war on terra" is in Iraq AND Afghanistan, and the Dems think the US should focus solely on killing Afghans (oops I mean those evil Taliban that are everywhere). How reassuring that BOTH of these parties plays the "we know the real evil ones" shell game. So, after the election, if the Repubs win, it's continuous killing of Iraqis and Afghans and if the Dems win, it's just Afghans that "deserve" to be killed. Who says only Republicans have catch phrases and slogans? Seems to me the Dems have a few of their own as well.
ConcernedCanuck @ 79:
Uh, thanks. Feel free to comment about your own government, and we'll take care of ours.
swampfox @ 78:
pull the combat troops out and leave Blackwater in iraq if they want. they're a public company....bush has set up a catch-22 for obama he knows we all know it
Bush Is A Yankee @ 80:
Uh, thanks, but how is that working out for you? Oh ya, it isn't. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.
karl @ 81:
pull the combat troops out and leave Blackwater in iraq if they want. they're a public company....bush has set up a catch-22 for obama he knows we all know it
Of course they would want to stay. They're making ungodly amounts of money in a country where they are absolutely immune from prosecution for any mistakes they make.
ConcernedCanuck @ 82:
That's nice. Again, when we want to emulate the Canadian government, we'll ask for your asinine opinion.
Cliff May - cheerleader for using US troops as mercenaries for the multi-national oil corps. Fuck him!
Bush Is A Yankee @ 83:
Of course they would want to stay. They're making ungodly amounts of money in a country where they are absolutely immune from prosecution for any mistakes they make.
let them stay and let the oil companies take on the cost
have a withdrawl that works but this staying for 100 yrs. as long as there is no casualities is bull shxt.
Terrible @ 85:
CORPORATE welfare......jesse helms knows about that
Logic and facts are a useless weapon in this century of truthiness. Today, tt's all about emotional gut feelings and ad hominem character issues. So the only way to disarm these neocons or wingnuts is to combine these two response tactics with, "What have you (or your organization) ever done for this country??? -- and don't say blaming people for our troubles and fearmongering. Those do not count as doing something for your country."
Say what you want about Ed, but Liberals need to hit a-holes in the jaw like that every day so that the people realize that those jerks are full of it and need to shut their mouths.