Obama and 'Merci beaucoup' - the conservative outrage of the day
By Steve Benen Wednesday Jul 09, 2008 8:30amAfter some very encouraging comments on bankruptcy law in Georgia the other day, Barack Obama opened the floor to some questions. Someone asked about preventing high-school dropouts and added that she believes “there should be a push more for our citizens to become bilingual here in America.”
These comments on bilingualism seem to have caused quite a stir in conservative circles.
Obama added, "You know, no, I’m serious about this. We should understand that our young people, if you have a foreign language, that is a powerful tool to get a job. You are so much more employable. You can be part of international business. So we should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age, because children will actually learn a foreign language easier when they’re 5, or 6, or 7 than when they’re 46, like me."
All of this sounds pretty sensible to me. Not surprisingly, a lot of conservatives don’t quite see it that way.
Commenting on Obama’s response, Andrew Leonard said, “There’s nothing particularly exceptional about Obama’s position, unless you are an English-only partisan cowering in fear of your cultural identity being swamped by funny-looking people from strange lands. Or one of the similarly insecure patriots who believe any criticism of the U.S. is a sign of ‘blame-America-first’ treachery.”
One might be surprised at just how many folks fall into these camps. Alex Knapp notes some of the high-profile conservative bloggers who are none too pleased with Obama’s comments:
Glenn Reynolds: “Barack Obama: Europeans are cooler than Americans.”
Tom Maguire: “Whoa. Reporting live from the United Kingdom, I have been assured that the typical Brit does not speak many (i.e., any) languages other than English and a smattering of American. Apparently Obama is aware that culturally, Britain is not part of Europe, and he assumes we know it as well.”
Gateway Pundit: “Obama is quite embarrassed that Americans are so boorish and refuse to speak French while traveling abroad. It’s so uncouth.”
The Weekly Standard went so far as to argue that Obama’s desire to see more American kids taught a foreign language is an example of “snobbery.”
Snobbery? Obama talked about this in the context of American competitiveness in a global economy. To care about these issues is to be a snob?
Alex Knapp, who as a conservative libertarian disagrees with Obama on most policy issues, concluded, “Frankly, all this seems to be is a pathetic attempt to feed the ‘Barack Obama is Unamerican’ narrative. A narrative that, I might add, has the result of making Americans sound like ignorant hillbillies. ‘He’s got a funny name!’ ‘He likes food that tastes good instead of crap that’s fried in lard!’ ‘He likes foreigners!’ ‘He wants to speak other languages!’ ‘He’s educated!’ ‘He played basketball instead of football!’ Embarrassing, really.”
Quite right. There’s an old joke you’ve probably heard — what do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual. And what do you call someone who speaks one language? An American.
Obama thinks we’d be better off if that joke wasn’t funny anymore. I think he’s right.
Some conservatives sure do pick strange things to get excited about.
Conservative only care about one language of course it is the Language of Love . Just ask Mark Foley or Larry Craig.
My British friends speak French, German and a smattering of Italian. They travel extensively but are taught at least one language early in school.
I envy their prowess.
Sometimes I think that conservatives are named that because they have to conserve the few braincells that they have.
How could anyone possibly get agitated at the notion that it is a good idea to know more than one language.
Good God these people are as stupid as rocks.
No other explanation, Steve, other than BO scares the crap out of these guys and they will throw anything at the wall to see what sticks.
He is plowing no new ground here; educators and business professionals have been saying this for 30 years.
Anything to divert the attention of the middle class from the reality that the economic underpinnings of America are falling apart and jobs are headed into the crapper.
Who gives a fuck what conservatives think or say. If Obama said Reagan was a great president, they would find some angle to cricticize him on it.
I wish they pushed foriegn languages when I was a kid. I'm hell of jealous of anyone who's a polyglot. Also, many foreign women are hotter than ones we grow domestically.
To the rest of the world, our lack of interest in or ability to speak a language other than English smacks of arrogance and ignorance. Read more. http://www.tagg-lines.com/2008/07/non-non-michelle.html
well barack needs two launguages so he han talk out of both sides of his mouth!
Of course most Conservatives or Republicans would be outraged, they can barely speak English _ let along read and write it _ themselves. They're still learning the first language let alone having to learn a second. Look at President Bush, he's a master of grammery.
What do you call a person that speaks 3 languages? Trilingual
What do you call a person that speaks 2 languages? Bilingual
What do you call a person that speaks 1 language? An American.
Language is a tool and also a weapon. The more your know, the better off your are. Just think if US forces had a better command of Arabic in Iraq. Who owned Chrysler for awhile? Daimler Benz, where I believe they speak German. I've lived overseas for years, and a lot of Americans do suddenly feel embarrassed about their monolingualism when are they are out of the States. Besides, being bilingual is a great way to impress the chicks..
There really are a lot of conservative nutters out there. Obama talks about making America more competitive and these wack-jobs get their hillbilly knickers in a wad.. They really are stupid. Embarrassing, really. Could be a greater country without these intellectual Neanderthals.
I agree with what Barack said................hey, does that make me a socialist-unpatriotic-liberal?
Jeepers, this conservo-labeling game is soooo much easier than gnashing a couple of brain cells together into a cogent thought.
And don't forget the anti-illegal immigrant crowd. I happened to flilp past Lou Dobbs on CNN yesterday, spending half of his show on how Obama is obviously a huge supporter of Mexico because he wants all of our kids to learn their language.
I love how education is the enemy of the conservatives in America.
Knowledge would give you power and they don't want anyone else to have any kind of power. That's good conservative values in action! or is it inaction?
"Not surprisingly, a lot of conservatives don’t quite see it that way."
A lot of liberals don't see it that way.
When a job says they are looking for someone who is Billingual, it is a code word for speaking Spanish. They want someone who can speak Spanish because the individuals you will be communicating to are not Billingual.
If the Spanish speakers were Billingual and spoke English, there would be no need to hire Billingual workers.
The problem is that people in this country don't speak English. That is the problem that needs to be addressed.
Flaco
Thomas Jefferson spoke French, Greek, Italian, Latin and English. Of course the conservatives of the time hated him too. Nuff said.
Conservatives just love that world economy - until it means making the US a little more like the rest of the world rather than vice versa. Look at what they're saying about InBev's proposed buyout of Anheuser-Busch.
Senator Obama is exactly right.
God forbid that American children should learn anything let alone another language. These repug monkeys are pushing for globalization and don't what us to be able to speak to the people we're dealing with. It's no wonder we are losing that battle as well.
Wow, I figured their knee-jerk reaction to advocate the opposite of whatever Obama says would kick in before their brains did, but I never thought they'd paint themselves into the "we don't want our kids to learn more things in school" corner so quickly.
So it's all right for us to ship all our jobs to non-English-speaking countries in the name of promoting the global economy, but it's un-American to learn the language of the people making the stuff we used to make for ourselves? Uh, okay...
The truth fucking hurts.
Gahh! The RW is almost blindingly ignorant!
The UK is indeed culturally European, as there's fundamentally little to distinguish the UK from the rest of the Big Asian PeninsulaTM. Americans need to speak foreign languages as the days of our predominance are fast closing. Unfortunately, the new nations that rule won't be speaking Espanol, they'll be speaking Ptonghua and Hindi.
Idiots like this are choking the American body politic.
Having traveled throughout the world while pushing airplanes for the USAF, I found two things prevalant--1. How much I wanted to speak the language of whatever country I found myself, and 2. How many other people who were with me expressed the same feeling.
I now live in Europe and have learned the language of this country. What a joy it is and how much I wish I had spoken and understood another language those many years ago. I encourage my children to not only practice the languages they have studied, but also, to do everything possible to teach their children a language while their children are young.
My son, who both studied overseas and flies much the same as I did, is a Spanish speaker. Guess who his crewmembers flock to when they find themselves spending time in a Spanish speaking country? This ability also transfers to job offers he has had back home in the USA.
What aggravates me is to see and hear so many US citizens denegrate others who speak a language they cannot understand. Believing that they are somehow better because they are, often marginally, English speakers makes little sense to me. Those from other countries who witness the arrogance of the uneducated find precious little to like about many from the USA.
I fully concur and encourage a nationwide emphasis on learning a second language--Spanish being my personal preference. Not only will it make our next generation more accepted by the worldwide community, it will also give those who learn the language skills a tremendous appreciation of how we really interrelate with others with whom we will need to expand both our influence and business opportunities.
If English was good enough for Jesus Christ it's good enough for me.
There Barack goes again, talking down to folks. I've always thought it would be a good idea to have multi-lingual children. My wife speaks fluent French and we will teach our kids to speak it. I just don't want someone telling me what the hell I should be doing. Maybe Jesse Jackson was right about Barack talking down to folks.
As one of those monolingual Americans I think that what Barack Obama is saying makes sense. Let's add language courses at an early age - Spanish, French, German, etc. It would be invaluable for a global economy. I am finding myself handicapped by my lack of skill in French and German, at the moment.
TAGG @ 7:
That's only because they haven't yet realized that it's not arrogance. It's just bravado and self denial that's covering up a profound sense of insecurity. Just like all the chest-beating war cheerleading that the chickenhawks do is designed to cover up cowardice etc. The only difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals have come to grips with it, and want to do something about it, while conservatives are still in an extreme state of denial about it.
Who are we kidding. The average American can barely speak English. We're semi-lingual.
(In my own defense, I speak a little Latin and Swahili, not enough though)
swampfox @ 8:
Maybe he should speak Idiotese like our current POTUS so you can understand him.
When I had been stationed in Greece for only a few weeks, and hadn't yet learned any of the language, my wife and I wanted to go see an American movie that was playing at the local theater.
I couldn't ask about viewing times in Greek, and the attendant couldn't speak
English. fortunately, I remembered enough of my HS French for us to communicate, and we got along just fine.
Europeans are very comfortable learning at least one other European language, and when I was in HS, you couldn't seriously think of going to college without taking a foreign language in HS. then, to graduate, you usually had to take some foreign language in college. It just makes sense. We live in, for better or worse, a global economy. We better learn to move smoothly in it.
Well, we can thank conservatives for the upcoming generation of fat/ignorant Americans that have been gestating under their regime. All that matters to them is being manipulative... it's a shame they are so good at it. I can't imagine having a conversation with someone and them telling me that learning another language is useless.. what is wrong with these people?
Capppy @ 29:
Ich spreche ein biss Deustche. Ich wunsche das ich sprache ein biss grosser Deutsche.
Medical studies have found that people who speak more than one language have healthier brains as they age and are better problem solvers.
Heck, I moved to Tennessee a few years back and realized that many Americans can't speak English. Apparently, conjugating verbs is hard!!!!
merci beaucoup Rev Jackson
merci beaucoup Rev Wright
merci beaucoup Bill Ayers
merci beaucoup Antoin "Tony" Rezko
merci beaucoup Iran
merci beaucoup Hugo chavez
merci beaucoup Islam http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/11963
Andy K Jong Il @ 359:
It was a door you stumbled through, not 'walked'.
There was no 'revisionist' history. All people have to do is look it up themselves.
Also, our posts are up here to see. All someone has to do is look at them and see the ACTUAL subject of my debate with Dan.
You're making yourself look ridiculous. Stop defending ignorant, hateful people. It makes you look like one yourself.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 14:
Agree, however you can't overlook the reich-wing shadenfreude factor that goes along with their desire to create a peon class of low skilled Americans who will always be dependent on a ruling class.
When a football team from a public high school soundly defeats a football team from a private school in the St. Louis area you will hear a chant coming from the losing side:
"it's alright, it's okay, you will work for us some day"
I wonder how the Republicans are going with that Newspeak dictionary?
You know from 1984, to replace Oldspeak (English) with a language where people aren't even able to think about dissent because they no longer have the vocabulary to express the concept.
Flaco,
I see your point but respectfully disagree with your premise. Yes, I am slightly peeved when I go into stores and I see customers who cannot communicate with the sales staff because they don't speak the language, and it is frustrating being in line with those folks. However, its hypocritical to think that others should conform to US when WE travel. I've only travelled out of the country one time, but I could only imagine if instead of visiting London, I visited Madrid, Paris or Tokyo - is is right of me to expect those I see to speak MY language? No, I'm in THIER country. As the foreigner, I should adapt and many who speak Spanish in our country should as well, but part of adaptation is teaching and learning. We need to adapt to the WORLD and stop sticking our head up our ass and wait for something to happen.
For years we have known that Spanish speaking immigrants would become the largest minority group in the US and every country to our SOUTH speaks Spanish in one form or another (Portuguese too), rather than thinking of it as losing our cultural identity (hillybilly?) We should be willing to work with others rather than going it alone.....but I guess thats what conservatives want: to be alone.
30 xenophon Says: the problem is i can understand him, and he speaks selloutaniese
Libertina @ 35:
Try Pennsylvania - If I hear another person say something like "The car needs fixed", I'm gonna split their lip.
Who cares about those conservatives. They are living in the 19th Century and we are moving forward in the 21st Century. Let's just leave them in our rear view mirror where we can still watch them and they can inhale our exhaust fumes.
Also, many foreign women are hotter than ones we grow domestically.
So true, so true. LOL
But I wouldn't want to be an American woman either. The pickings are kind of slim for them too, I'll bet.
To be honest the most impressive thing about Europe was the huge portion of the population that was multilingual. Glenn Reynolds on the other hand is in a lifelong and failing struggle with English.
But we in America have our priorities. It is much more important to be the dominant imperial force than educate our citizens properly. It is more important to develop new ways of killing than be cultured. So we get the Reynolds, Limbaughs, and Orallys instead of Shakespeare, Plato, and Pynchon.
webslinger @ 38:
Ach, du has Logik und Argument. Was ist wir zu Sie getan? (I probably butchered that last bit, mein Deustche is ein biss rusty.)
Glenn Reynolds: “Barack Obama: Europeans are cooler than Americans.”
No, but most of them are probably smarter (certainly smarter than HIM), in that they speak more than one language.
EVERY American child should be taught at least one more language, other than English (and instruction in our native language needs work, too). It about being able to compete in a global market, and it's also about being an educated person, an idea that folks like those you quoted fear more than anything else.
Re-read Hofstadter's moldy old Anti-Intellectualism in American Life. Still true today.
Bud "Terrorist Fist Jab" Hussein @ 40:
Hey - I'm from that neighborhood in Pennsylvania and I'm proud of the German heritage of these Pennsylvanians.
These are the type of 'Murcans who dont like to travel abroad, cause there's too many foreigners ...
xenophon @ 30:
Nein, zu grossen Dummkopfen in der Bundenstag und Prasidency bereits.
QuakerDave @ 45:
There are lots of studies that show that children who acquire another language early have enhanced brain development ....
the ones that don't ....
are named Bu$h.
Being in a multi-cultural family, I've had the luck (and luxury) of growing up with 3 languages. I find it funny time and again when walking into a new Chinese restaurant, ordering in Chinese (my mother is Chinese) and having a bit of a chat with the waiting staff, to hear the order being shouted to the chef, followed by a "Make it fast/good/add more sauce, he's one of us!"
Being able to communicate with someone in their own language shows your willingness to reach out. It's always amusing to see Americans (and Brits) travelling overseas and, after encountering a language barrier, RESORTING TO SHOUTING AND SPEAKING SLOWLY TO GET THINGS. Normally stamping a big "I'm a ignorant tourist, please rip me off" sign on their fore-heads.
Good on BO to try and educate the Amercian populous, but the GOP know they can never succeed if the common folks actually knew enough to think for themselves...!
Conservotards discourage education of any kind. It encourages thinking and the last thing you want is for your slave population to start thinking for itself.
Wuts nixt? S-cargo at mcdonnels? Jist a nuther librill plott to tirn th damm cuntry ovr ta abuncha furriners is wut! If inglish is gud enuff fer GOD aw my tee its shur nuff gud fer evvur buddy els. If enny of my alevin (11 PTL!) keeyidz cums hoam tockin' sum firriner tock Ah wil beet th pizen owtta thim.
It is important for us to remember that these are the people who elected a president who hasn't mastered one language.
"Es dutt mir leed as unser Bressident en dummkopp iss. Ich hab fer ihn nett gestimmt!"
Loosely translated, except for the idiot president, "I'm sorry our president is an idiot. I didn't vote for him."
General:
My German is pretty darn bad, but yes, there is logic in my argument.....the rest, I have no clue. I fully admit that I am not a linguist of any kind - my mastery of English is not as great as it could be but, I know a little German, Japanese, Spanish, French, Latin and Hebrew. I take some pride in the fact that I have ATTEMPTED to learn a little, but the xenophobes on the right don't even want to attempt to learn.
I remember talking to a European friend and bragging that when I was in Italy I actually spoke Italian to people...!
She looked at me strangely and said "Of course you speak their language. Why would you speak your language in their country?"
I felt like an idiot. DUH! How would we feel if someone came up to one of us on the street and screamed "Dove sono i gabinetti?!"
I'm old and I'm starting to learn Spanish. Learning language as an adult is difficult and it challenges the brain. Maybe McCain could benefit from learning another language. It might slow down his senility.
25 Central Scrutinizer Says: If English was good enough for Jesus Christ it’s good enough for me.
I HOPE that was an attempt at humor.
webslinger @ 54:
Define: "A little".
Cats r Flyfishn @ 53:
or just tell them that you are Canadian.
Dr. Acula @ 57:
It got my laughing.
Cats r Flyfishn @ 53:
we should all learn this phrase in as many languages as we can! (naturally those who did vote for him barely know english---was that too elitist? Je ne regrette rien!)
mike @ 55:
Non lo so.
where the hell do Brits get off speaking OUR language?? Get your own!
In New York, we are all required to study at least a year (maybe more by now) of a foreign language in high school. It's been so long since high school for me that I can't speak Spanish anymore, but I do pick it (and other romantic languages) fairly quickly when surrounded by them. So Barry is right that we SHOULD study languages, but man he comes off like a prick saying it. He's got to learn to speak his native tongue better before lecturing the bitters about what languages they need to speak.
swampfox @ 8:
Did someone fart?
General:
mainly, I can read most of them or hear most of them and get the gist of conversations.....when it comes to speaking, the only one I am comfortable with is Spanish, though I can yell choice words at someone in Japanese. My problem with Spanish has always been speed - I'm not conversational because I can't keep up....but being a Floridian by birth and now a Texan, I have lived around Spanish speakers my whole life.
Education is one of those annoyances in the conservative agenda. It's about 1000 line items below 'kill brown people' .
Throw anything about education at them and they'll come up with an excuse. "More merikan history?! Well shit, librul professors would make boosh look bad which means our kids would hate our freedumbs."
Conservatives appeal to the bottom 1/3 in IQ, the people that are incapable of learning much of anything, the followers.
For ANYONE coming to this country - learn the language of this land.
I learned TEX-MEX as a youngster - had to, if I wanted to converse with the hired help that lived in this country and only spoke one language - TEX-MEX. Now it is all forgotten and rightfully so because I live in a country where the language spoken to communicate is ENGLISH. I will NOT learn the mother tongue of MEXICO - I don't live in that country, but I do expect those coming to this country to learn English. In fact, boys and girls, I will not - NOT - apologize for only learning one language. It's my right.
Cats r Flyfishn @ 61:
CS: Thats a Classic!
This is the "American mentality". We are #1. Our blood is so much more precious than anyone else in the world. Everyone should have bacon and eggs for breakfast, etc, etc. Talk about head-up-our-asses stupid!
I started traveling the world when I was 18 years old, back in the sixties. I can speak German and now Spanish in addition to my native English. I am always amazed at how lame stupid American tourists are as they wander the streets of Mexico, or look for directions in Germany, Italy, France, etc. No clue as to how to speak another language, and often upset that the natives don't speak their English.
Damn, we are a nation of f*cking morons. And now the neocon right wing wants to make us more ignorant. We have "an opportunity" to be bilingual. We are surrounded by a mini culture of Spanish speaking population, and they want to stick their heads in the sand. Idiots!
Get your heads out of your asses America. Latin America is right next door, and you can't even speak with your neighbors. Idiots. We're #1....in morons.
I've ran into people from many different nations that speak 2,3,4, and sometimes 5 different languages. I've always admired that. These are the type of people that have no problems conversing with others and they are highly intelligent. I think Conservatives have a problem with teaching American children other languages because that would mean that their own ignorance and lack of intelligence will be even more apparent to all over time.
whats all this talk about brains and smartness people. I dont want a nerd for prezident, i want a recovering alcoholic that id wanna have a beer with who can barely speak his own language let alone some frenchified whoopledy whats language. Speak American like the rest of us morons and do it poorly for maximum effect
The xtian mouthbreathers believe learning "intelligent design" is good, but learning another language is bad.
Whodathunkit that Raygun's dumbing down of 'murka would expand SO quickly under Warpig?
Wow...evidently, the conservotards don't want our childerns to be more smarter than they is.
You can't argue or reason with a 5 year old, everyone knows that. Conservatives need to be ignored - they are stupid.
The elite private schools to which wealthy conservatives send their children already require the study of a foreign language. Never heard 'em complain about it before.
Education for me, but not for thee, I suppose.
@rain
You're right, it is your right to remain ignorant. But business tends to be a two-way process. Why should a Mexican/Brazilian/German/Chinese businessman do business with you when there is someone else that speaks (or at least has attempt to learn to a respectable degree) their language. It shows a flexibility and understanding that you obviously will never achieve.
And if you think that America is great and you can just go it alone... I wish you all the luck. You'll need it.
Heavens no, we can't be teaching our young people anything that might actually make them worldly.
If it's not clear yet that reich wing idiots want nothing more than to keep the population as dumb as a box of fucking rocks then you haven't been paying attention. After all, if we actually educated our young people and exposed them to what goes on all over this great big planet who would they have to lead around by the nose?
Hulk @ 72:
The conservative party of regressive assholes are failing to realize that refusing to learn more than one language will leave us at a distinct disadvantage in business dealing with other countries. Overspecialize and you breed in weakness, diversification is KEY to survival in nature as well as in business.
I'm surprised that they are failing to pick up on this, as they have sold this nation out to their corporate masters.
flaco @ 15:
Hey "skinny" --
Notice that Obama said "You can be part of international business..." which doesn't mean working at your local Walmart or McDonalds. What he's emphasizing is for young people to have a curiosity about the world...travel, exposure to foreign cultures...not the xenophobic, "Murican-mentality" so prevalent in U.S. conservative culture.
Why is it that the only desire for conservatives to explore foreign lands comes from the opposite end of a gun barrel?
Brittian (United Kingdom) isn't part of Europe... when in bloody hell did that happen?
I'm 36 and I'm trying to teach myself French (just starting so I know nothing). Why French? Mainly because I have a hard time pronouncing French words. Secondly, when my wife uses French it just sounds sexy and cool.
66 WMorrisLives Says: he who smelt it delt it!
webslinger @ 55:
I was kidding, what I said was (more or less): Using logic and reason? What's the matter with you?
It was a joke.
To conservative NeoCons, ignorance is a weapon. Knowledge is an enemy to their agenda.
People who understand more than one language tend to have a better knowledge of the world stage. Multilingual people, outnumber mono-lingual people in the world's population.
In fact, the largest group of English speaking people in the world is India... followed by China. How are they doing on the world stage these days? The GOP doesn't want you to think about that.
The GOP doesn't want people who have an interest in what is going around the globe. The GOP wants 'Merkins. They want dumb, willfully ignorant followers who do what their masters tell them without question or thought.
The fascists running this country seem to prefer people who can barely speak English. Look at Chimpy.
"However, its hypocritical to think that others should conform to US when WE travel. I’ve only travelled out of the country one time, but I could only imagine if instead of visiting London, I visited Madrid, Paris or Tokyo - is is right of me to expect those I see to speak MY language? No, I’m in THIER country. As the foreigner, I should adapt and many who speak Spanish in our country should as well, but part of adaptation is teaching and learning. We need to adapt to the WORLD and stop sticking our head up our ass and wait for something to happen."
Thank you for the well worded response.
I do not believe others need to conform to us when we travel. My point is:
Billingualism in the US is a code word for speaking Spanish.
Spanish speaking Americans often are NOT billigual, hence creates the need for others to be billigual, FOR THEM.
I am all for learning foreign languages- the key word there is foreign. If we go to foreign countries, we should do our best to learn the language. Maybe even before we travel.
If you see a ad in the paper saying "looking for billigual employees", your German, Italian, Cantonese, French, etc. isn't going to get you the job unless you speak Spanish.
Flaco
LOL! I just love what reactionaries object to. Obama, and anyone else who feels similar, is right on the money. I didn't get the opportunity to take a second language (spanish) until I was in 9th grade. To say I struggled with it is an understatement. It was always the lowest grade on my report card. In college, I took two intensive "immersion" style courses and was finally able to communicate with others in a real world setting on at least a casual level. That took 5 years. Now, after having not lived in an area where Spanish is spoken frequently for 8 years, I've almost completely forgotten it in that I simply can't process it like I used to, nor am I up on my vocab. It's not that I couldn't learn it again but there is only so much time and desire I have in a day.
On the other hand, I have a friend who's daughter has been raised on both English and Portuguese since day 1. She speaks and understands both fluently for her age. This is a skill that is not going to disappear. I wish I was as fortunate to have been in her situation, and would have absolutely been at an advantage had this been taught earlier in life.
Why are right-wing reactionaries so fearful of people being able to better communicate with more people? Talk about stupid.