Face The Nation: Withdrawal Of Troops In Iraq Helps McCain
By Nicole Belle Saturday Jul 12, 2008 7:00pm
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Download | play (h/t Heather)
Actually, it's hard to think of anything that the talking heads inside the Beltway Bubble think would hurt John McCain's chances. But this is so slippery and the terminology so vague that it's troublesome to see the potential to sway a lot of low information voters. With the news that we are considering drawing down forces in Iraq, beginning in September (reg. req'd), Roger Simon of The Politico, who never met a Republican for whom he wouldn't apologize, insists that this "October Surprise" will help John McCain.
SIMON: Yeah. It may be an October surprise in July. I think anything that signals that the war in Iraq is generally winding down would be good news for John McCain. He has always said that he wants to leave Iraq, too, but he wants to leave it with victory and honor. And if a drawdown of troops is seen to be militarily justified because we're winning, because the surge is working, and not political trickery because Republicans need it for the fall elections, then that is likely to be effective.
So how many caveats did you count? There's a lot of stars that have to line up just so to make that work, but let's focus on the purposeful vagueness and empty rhetoric.
McCain has ALWAYS said that he wants to leave Iraq? Does anyone ever explain how you can leave an occupation (remember, we "won" the war back in 2003) with "victory"? Is there any honor to that?
'The surge is working' meme is working my last nerve as well. Yes, violence is down within Baghdad (where the majority of those escalation-designated troops were sent), but outside of that area, in Kirkuk, Diyala, Mosul and Fallujah? Not so much. And is it considered a "win" when we're talking about 4.5 million Iraqi refugees?
What happens if the "drawdown" (which is Beltway speak for returning to pre-surge levels) is NOT militarily justified but politically justified? Is it still a "drawdown" if we're simply moving them to Afghanistan where violence and attacks has jumped lately? Will it still help McCain when the number of troop deaths in Afghanistan increase even more, like today's attack in Kabul?
Transcripts below the fold
SCHIEFFER: Joining us now with a campaign quick check: Roger Simon, the chief political columnist of Politico and our old friend.
Roger, what do you make of this? Suddenly we're talking about drawing out more troops out of Iraq and before the November elections. Now, you just heard Ed Gillespie say this has kind of always kind of been in the works, and in fact, I suppose....
Mr. ROGER SIMON (Politico): Right.
SCHIEFFER: Well, that is right. But suddenly they're starting to talk about it. What do you make?
Mr. SIMON: Yeah. It may be an October surprise in July. I think anything that signals that the war in Iraq is generally winding down would be good news for John McCain. He has always said that he wants to leave Iraq, too, but he wants to leave it with victory and honor. And if a drawdown of troops is seen to be militarily justified because we're winning, because the surge is working, and not political trickery because Republicans need it for the fall elections, then that is likely to be
effective.
Now, as you accurately pointed out, this may be a shifting of troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. But even that, fighting in Afghanistan is just less politically charged than fighting in Iraq. Afghanistan, the country from where the 9/11 attacks were launched, where there is a clear linkage with our military operations there and fighting terrorism--a linkage which never really existed in Iraq--it is a more "acceptable" war, if you will, to the American people.
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what the hell are they smoking?
And if a drawdown of troops is seen to be militarily justified because we’re winning, because the surge is working, and not political trickery because Republicans need it for the fall elections, then that is likely to be effective.
Political trickery is all it is.
Yea, it will help McCain.... remember why he lost the 2008 presidential election!
also on FTN,
when discussing the supposed troop withdrawal from iraq, nary a word about this from carl levin - it took lugar to bring up the fact that MORE TROOPS ARE NEEDED AFGHANISTAN…
what’s up with carl levin?
katy @ 4:
proof that the dems are complicit. no one is that stupid.
This is one of many things on MSM that drive me crazy....
as Nichole said in her preamble...
'With the news that we are considering drawing down forces in Iraq, beginning in September (reg. req’d), Roger Simon of The Politico, who never met a Republican for whom he wouldn’t apologize, insists that this “October Surprise” will help John McCain.'
The fact that simon, mike allen, and jim vandehei get so much face time as 'objective ' observers. I hear any one of these three on regurlarly with bill press on Air America, MSNBC, Hardball. VandeHei's wife used to work for tom delay. These jackals are nothing more than sheepsclad wolves carrying water for the republicans. A subtler tuning than faux noise. Seeing them pontificate with the likes of Bill Press or Rachael Maddow blurs that line quite uncomfortably.
Pentagon Fighting Off Peace Majorities in Iraq and US, A Crisis of Democracy
Excellent point.
All the recent chatter about possible withdrawal of US forces sounds a lot like Pentagon propaganda to lull BOTH populations - American AND Iraqi.
myshadow @ 6:
air america = DLC =clintonistas = repug lite with a smile.
rooted for hillary all the way.
now sabotaging Obama and preparing to make the election close enough to throw into the DIEBOLD macjine.
Any war is more "acceptable" if there appears to be no negative consequences.
No personal sacrifices, no draft, no increase in taxes (in fact, tax cuts), no bloody images on tv, no lead stories about Afghanistan civilians dying from US attacks...
The list goes on...
MountainMan23 @ 7:
Is Maliki avoiding the Noriega/Saddam treatment?
This is my surprised face... :|
Joe Tseng @ 9:
4100 dead, 48,000 injured = NO sacrifice as far as you're concerned.
Help me understand that.
NOLa, Minnesota bridges, Cali-fires, mississippi floods midwest tornadoes.
Help me understand that.
tax breaks for the wealthy, 8billion to exxon
Help me understand that.
where do you get your information?
do you have any family even remotely affected by the war, i.e., actually in any of the service branches?
Have you seen the national debt lately? noticed any bailouts of bankrupt banks? do you know anyone at risk during this ongoing mortgage crisis?
Help me understand how the hell you can come up with NO SACRIFICE!
From what I heard we're withdrawing, but more troops will still be there than before the surge, due to a pause in the withdrawal.
All the while our soldiers are killed.
That shouldn't help anyone and it won't since more people are paying attention to the economy.
Any of these news "PUNdittoheads" even casually mention today, that the Iraqi PM is running around the country giving away up to $8000 cash per person? Think maybe THAT has something to do with the lull in the bloodshed? Maybe the Iraqis are all out shopping for new and improved guns and ammo.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 12:
let me take that all back. I probably missed your anger and sarcasm. If I did I apologize.
On today,7-12-08 I witnesed Lou Dobbs and his C-lected guests distort whAT
This is one story they are trying to hide.
via BF
I think this year's "October Surprise" is that Israel* will attack Iran at the order of GW.
---
* Yes, Israel. Most Pentagon generals would attempt a military coup before committing troops to a 3rd invasion.
I thought they said another terrorist attack will help mccain?
The way things are going they'll say, "If Ysbaddaden picks his nose it'll help mccain."
They never talk about what might hurt him,
Unless he tosses over the beer baroness for a younger model.
Corporate media.
Heads are expoloding on this :
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/13/175041/125/158/551074
Actually it's OBAMA that has been calling for moving troops out of Iraq to squelch the resurgent Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan.
McSame/MCGoo's just been ALL war ALL the time for a hundred years.... and we don't bring em back until they stop dying... whatever the hell that means.
Good for McGrumpy? THey'll say shit in our drinking water is good for McGrumpy!
Gay marriage helps McInsane.
Blue Buddha @ 18:
Hmmmmmmmmmm...wishful thinking.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 15:
Thanks. It was exactly that, anger and sarcasm.
(BTW, I'm a former soldier myself)
getalife @ 20:
Interesting take at huffingtonpost.
the problem appears to be "low information voters"
Joe Tseng @ 24:
thank you.
According to the MEdia, EVERYTHING seems to help McCain... more violence in Iraq, less violence in Iraq, Bush attacking Iran, Bush NOT attacking Iran, McCain stumbling over his speeches, McCain NOT stumbling over his speeches.
The only thing I can think of that WON't help McCain is when more people vote for Obama in November... and the MEdia won't even consider that possibility for discussion.
22 Comrade Rou Says: Gay marriage helps McInsane.
Maybe then he'll get some.
Gerardo their pool boy would be doing double-service.
War might be over soon. Depends on the outcome of these negotiations:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/world/middleeast/01iraq.html?_r=1&oref...
the empire burns in afghanistan, iraq and at home, while our bold "captains of state" are frolicking about, wagging their d!cks in the wind, up in the redwoods...
that's right, bohemian grove kicked off this weekend...
so remember that jfk tried to warn us all about these secret societies, and that he implored us, before his untimely passing, to network as citizens and blow the cover off these scumbags...
Breaking News -- McCain's head explodes!
That should help him in November.
Noel Sheppard works for Brent Bozell? Bozell is one angry
white boy.
E. Skyhawk @ 21:
yeah seems most here are ignoreing obamas wanting to widen the war in afganistan, he said if any troops are taken out of iraq hes going to send them tho that rat hole remarkable you never mention his stupidity!
Does anyone believe what Roger "Make Shit Up" Simon reports? The Politico has a reputation for fabricating stories, especially ones unfavorable to Democrats. It was shameful how Obamabrats quoted such a dishonest rag to discredit Clinton during the campaign. Now it's Obama's turn to receive their criticism - it surely will not be their beloved McCain.
John McCain. He has always said that he wants to leave Iraq, too, but he wants to leave it with victory and honor
There is NO Victory or Honor in a war founded on lies and false witness.
This simple concept alone can crush McCain and the self-righteous shame less dicks that support this war crime, including McCain himself. Why this can't come out as a central theme of Obama is beyond me. US and innocent blood has been shed via a marketing atrocity and an illegal invasion and occupation for the no-bid war and oil machine.
Nothing can make this right except massive reparation and total withdrawal immediately.
ysbaddaden @ 28:
He's a uniter not a divider.
I just look forward to the day when I don't have to endure any more information about Mr. Insane. I just enjoy picturing him sitting somewhere in a rocking chair sporting an afghan over his shoulders - even more withered than today - rambling on about his POW experience (who cares anymore - looked like he at least had a bed to lie in - more than any number of Homeless people in this country have). Will November ever come?
getalife @ 20:
The New Yorker has lost all credibility now, did they suddenly get taken over by Faux or the NSDAP !
QUALAR @ 34:
So was that Indiana HRC rifle mailer one of Poltico's fabrications or a genuine Clinton hit job against Obama !?
... except, of course, there is no help for McWarmonger....
It doesn't matter what all these over inflated ego pundits say anyway. Americans are sick of republicans and will kick more of them out in November. So they can jaw, pontificate, smear, fabricate, and prevaricate. It won't make any difference come November.
Face The Nation: Withdrawal Of Heavy Duty Enema Helps McCain
Isnt it amazing how the right wing electorate love to pimp our troops.
Seems many of the troops love taking the stroll too.
I've lost faith in this nation and getting a VISA fast!!
Can anyone define an "acceptable" War?
Bringing the troops home is not good for MccAin as stated in the clip. Bringing the troops home is good for the troops. Let alone what is left of the American dollar.
These hacks, If the war gets hard its good for McCain. If we have another terrorist attack, its good for McCain. If we bring the troops home although McCain wants them to stay for 100 years., Its good for McCain.
Sorry, America's education system is not quite that bad yet. That what their shoveling for McCain doesn't reek. Reek horribly at that.
If we need someone tortured it will be Good for McCain. If Bush policies implode the entire American economy, it is good for McCain. If a pandemic kills three quarters of the American population it is good for McCain.
Guess what? What is good for McCain is not necessarily good for the country.
CowBoy Bob in Austin @ 27:
Exactly and as always, the media GETS IT WRONG!!
I like Hayden's theory that this is a possible plot to show the public that the Republicans can win the war, and win the presidency.
But I have a theory of my own. I believe the Iraqi government knows withdrawal is imminent if Obama becomes president, and has stepped up policing and containing insurgents. It has increased their desire to take control faster, proving that a time table would have worked after all. Now they have demanded time lines themselves in anticipation of a Democratic president.
Just a thought.
Did anyone else hear Roger Simon say that fighting terrorism and the war in Iraq was, "a linkage that never really existed?"
Wasn't Cheney just a week or so ago still arguing that Al Qaeda was in Iraq before the U.S invasion?
And what about "fight them there or fight them here?"
Look, one thing is crystal clear - Republicans make policy decisions, right or wrong, legal or illegal, and then they change the facts to meet the policy. I know several hard-core Republicans, who I have hardly any policy agreements with, who have quit the party over just this fact. Though Republicans prefer in general, the tough-guy, "war" solution over peace; while they are sink-or-swim, low tax, individualists; while they have little empathy for a single mother of 4 who gets breast cancer and has no medical insurance; they DO NOT like to be lied to (when the finally figure out, albeit belatedly, that they are being lied to).
Yet the Republican stumpers continue to manipulate the truth so blatantly.
Blue Buddha @ 18:
I agree! People are sick of war, so what the neocons are planning is to have Israel attack Iran. Then, of course, the USA will come running with billions of dollars and OUR soldiers to fight the war for them. That is exactly what they have planned, imo. That'll be the October surprise. Get ready for a draft, everyone, if McCain is elected.
Vman @ 35:
What is also beyond you in any grasp of a workable political strategy to help Obama get elected. Whether or not based on "lies" keep in mind that 2/3 of the country supported the Iraq invasion. The mission to oust Saddam and his henchmen was a resounding success, whereas the post "mission accomplished" phase has been a complete disaster due to not having enough boots on the ground. Obama's ability to articulate on our successes, failures and next steps in Iraq without stooping to condescending rhetoric explains why he is a presidential candidate and so many others are only finding an audience for their sanctimonious diatribes on anonymous message boards.
katy @ 4:
Carl needs to be put out to pasture. He's 76 and needs to go!
Michigan needs a new "fighting" liberal in the U.S. Senate. Stabenow votes liberal, but she is more of a follower. Carl, like Conyers has lost the "fire in the belly" tenacity they once had. Age, money and Washington bubble syndrome have taken their toll.
The GOP is living in a such a huge bubble from reality, I like that, it means they will lose.
Yeah, this is just great:
"Fighting in Afghanistan is just less politically charged than fighting in Iraq."
It takes President Fuckhead and his protege McSame six goddamned years to figure out where the war should have been fought in the first place. Nice piece of work, boys. I'm sure the mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers of those 4000+ dead in Iraq are SO proud of their sacrifice so you two half-wits could figure out your mistake.
Fuck both of you.
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