Obama far more popular with American Jews than Lieberman
By SilentPatriot Friday Jul 25, 2008 11:00am
Remember all that talk about Senator Obama's "problem with Jewish voters"? Well, just like his problem with women, Latinos and blue collar whites, it doesn't exist. And if the 34 percent who view him unfavorably does constitute a problem, then Lieberman has a lot more to worry about.
If Barack Obama has a problem among Jewish voters, then Sen. Joseph Lieberman is in monumental trouble.
Among the most high-profile Jews in Congress, Lieberman is viewed far more unfavorably than the presumptive Democratic nominee, according to a new poll. Only 37 percent of Jews view the Connecticut Independent in a favorable light compared to 48 percent who have a negative perception. As for Obama, 60 percent of Jews view him favorably while 34 percent view him unfavorably.
The findings were released as part of a recent survey of American Jews by the new progressive pro-Israel group J Street. They seem to upturn some of this year's conventional political wisdom.
Chalk up another one in the 'L' column for the beltway crowd.
UPDATE: (Nicole) I don't think cozying up to terrorists like the Cuban-American Eduardo Arocena is going to endear Holy Joe any more either, do you?
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I hear shellfish is, too.
As an American Jew, I definitely concur.
Here's some west coast support for Kucinich's hearings yesterday:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/2008/07/impeachment-hearings-in-la.html
reached about a million people by the end of the day. Seriously.
Remind me again which of Obama and Lieberman is trying to get elected this year....
Fuck you Lieberman you piece of shit.
If I were Jewish I'd put as much distance between me and him as was humanly possible, too. The man is an embarrassment, the epitome of a schmuck. A Jewish Kenneth Blackwell. [bbd]That man is poison.[/bbd]
Definitely not a big fan of these items the media makes up to kill time. It's a kind of word association that if repeated enough times gets treated as fact in spite of evidence to the contrary:
Ron Paul? Longshot.
Obama? Jewish/female/white problem.
(2004) John Kerry? Flipflopper.
Howard Dean? Scream.
Good.
Can we IGNORE Lieberman now?
Why do the bloggers give this guy so much power by continuing to highlight his activities? I can understand it if he is standing next to McCain supplying corrections, but this day in day out "What's Joe up to" just gives him - and Republicans - what they want.
In case you hadn't noticed, he isn't a Democrat anymore. Let the Repubs worship him if they want. Look how much their admiration has done for Zell Miller. As soon as Democrats stopped talking about Miller he faded away.
Let Joe fade away, too.
Whiny little backstabbing traitor. As my grandfather would have said "Guys like him give all the Jews a bad name."
Once Obama is in the White House and we take a solid majority in the Senate, how long does anyone think it will take this snivelling weasel to try sucking up to our side?
Oh really? What a shocker. If a member of my tribe was colluding with the leader of a phsyco death cult that wanted me to fry in a battle so his wizard could come back to earth I don't think I would want to drink a beer with the asshole either.
"...That he would be advocating the release of a man who led a bombing spree across Manhattan, where many of his constituents work, and in Miami, is simply incredible. That he is doing so while serving as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, is unacceptable."
Do ya think?
ARSE-HOLE.
say if memmory serves me right didnt obama go to bat for liberdouch against the guy who was running against ol libberman? the craps in the wind bros ,
God, I would think so, Jews are not stupid
Now we know why he hangs with McCain all the time, McCain is the only person on earth who likes him. As the old saying goes, You're known by the friends you keep.
Obama appears to be the more presidential-like candidate. Mccain is acting like a child using nothing but negative, desparate “catch-up-like” tactical attempts against Obama. He is showing severe signs of senility, and is looking and acting more unpresidential with every day that goes by.
I am very proud that there is at least one ray of hope, a presidential candidate out there that accurately represents the true sentiments of the majority of US citizens in a world filled with a seemingly bleak future. I cannot wait to cast my vote. I just hope this next election isn’t rigged by the incumbent powers. There will trully be a very necessary civil war again.
Lieberman's right wing radical stance and warmongering legislation (the 2002 war resolution and the Kyl Lieberman amendment) are not beneficial or constructive for the U.S. or Israel (Lieberman sees no separation between the two). He is more than willing to send your relatives off to unnecessary and immoral wars for what he believes will benefit Israel expanding their borders has only hurt the U.S. and Israel.
Senator Webb addresses Lieberman's push for a confrontation with Iran
Kyl Lieberman amendment
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/25/sen-webb-blasts-liebermankyl-am...
Former Senator Gravel hammers Clinton on her Kyl Lieberman amendment (watch Obama in the clips on you tube on this issue...Obama plays it sheepishly ...he just happened to be out of town the day of the vote)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npzN3dZR6JM
OBAMA SKIPPED TOWN THE DAY OF THE KYL LIEBERMAN AMENDMENT LAST FALL. FORMER SENATOR EDWARDS EXPLAINS CLEARLY WHAT THE WARMONGERING AMENDMENT IS ABOUT
Why is everyone breathing so hot and heavy over a religious group which makes up about 2% of the U.S. population? Much ado about nothing...
swampfox @ 12:
WRONG!!!!!
Senator Obama was one of the few who had the guts to campaign for Ned Lamont, and one of the first who came to Connecticut to help his campaign. See this page from Ned Lamont's website, an email that Barack Obama sent out in support of Lamont.
http://www.nedlamont.com/blog/1976/barack-obama-writes-emails
did folks know that Lieberman made sure he had a deferment during Vietnam. what a yellow bellied chickenhawk. If he has his way he will be sending your relatives into Iran for Israel.
"Lieberman never served in the military. A spokesperson told The Hartford Courant in 1994 that Lieberman received an educational deferment from the Vietnam War draft when he was an undergraduate and law student from 1960-67. Upon graduating from law school at 25, Lieberman qualified for a family deferment as he was already married and had one child, Matt.[8]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman
RedWhite&Brooklyn @ 19:
you cherry picked both clinton and obama campaighned for liberman!
brando @ 18:
If only reality would stick to the media narrative.
kasinca @ 7:
Have you ever considered the logical contradiction between Mussolini-Hitler style fascism and Zionism? A movement dedicated to a Jewish homeland cannot simultaneously be dedicated to an extermination of the Jews. Hagee's Christianity is straight-out Nazism adapted to the US. If you want a Jewish homeland, there's a lot arguing against being simultaneously dedicated to exterminating Jews while wanting that.
Kathleen @ 17:
The Elders of Zion are displeased with you. Please report to Tsaritsyn for our Black Hundreds to deal with you.
Lie-berman reminds me of that nasty stain I can't seem to get off the bottom of my toilet bowl...
swampfox @ 21:
Cherry picked? I gave the link to Ned Lamont's website where he reprints Barack Obama's actual letter! What more do you want? If Obama & Hillary "supported" Liebermann BEFORE he lost the primary, I don't have a big problem with that. Liebermann (in my opinion) was a rat-bastard weasel during his VP run, constantly talking about how he condemned Bill Clinton's "despicable behavior" and not being proud to be a Democrat. Once he lost the primary and decided to run against the Democratic candidate (Ned Lamont) Hillary, Obama & John Edwards all cane to Connecticut & campaigned for Lamont. (Hillary also gave him money from her PAC and lent her chief of staff to the campaign.
Liebermann didn't actually cross the line to become a traitor until he ran against the Democratic candidate... and Obama was supporting Ned Lamont at that point. That's not cherry picking, that's getting the time line straight.
damn that's gotta hurt. poor joe, his joementum is long gone.
swampfox @ 21:
Got any proof? You are the cherry-picker.. My memory is supported by the aforementioned email: Obama supported Lamont.
True, before Lamont entered the race to challenge Lieberman, Obama supported the Dem over the Repub. But, once Lamont demonstrated competitiveness, Obama switched his support to Lamont. I can't remember when he switched. But it was BEFORE the Democratic primary.
Not unlike most of Obama's supporters... he had to demonstrate his competitiveness before they offered support. For instance, most people seem to forget that the Black community would not support Obama at first ... they supported Clinton.. once he showed he could win, they switched.
I could use your argument and say, "The Black community doesn't support Obama." And I would be disingenuous.
The press and pollsters continue to focus on very heterogeneous groups with as many differences as commonalities, such as Cuban and Jewish Americans. Orthodox jews have little in common with other jews these days politically, the former being just as sexist and socially conservative as right wing Protestans and Catholics and strict Muslims. The only difference that matters is between doctrinaire scriptural literalists, whatever their religion, and everyone else! In any case, this election is far more about going after close-minded northern Catholics who even a Catholic nominee couldn't carry in 2004. Obama will only be able to convert most narrow-minded folks AFTER he becomes president! That's when the sea change in voting patterns will begin.
Kathleen @ 22:
In all seriousness and sincerity, I cannot, for the life of me, think of one good reason ANYONE could listen to what Lieberman spews and come away with anything near the American Spirit within them (except perhaps the IRE raging against everything he stands for)....
swampfox @ 12:
lieberman was obama's mentor when he first entered the senate
he felt like he owed it to him
but the support was only during the primary, not the general
and since holy joe has openly attacked him during this presidential election, they no longer have a relationship
Joe is a Zionist. Which means he seeks a Jewish homeland that has been cleansed of all other inferior races. This makes him a racist (yes, even fascist) pig and most American Jews do not want to be associated with that kind of murderous racism.
General_Rennenkampf @ 24:
You're confusing Fascism with Nazism. Look it up:
It seems that this is EXACTLY what holy Joe seeks to create in the middle east, this means that he will exterminate anyone who gets in the way of his nation/race including Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and anyone else that he sees as a threat to the American/Israeli Hegemony. He's dangerous and a warmonger.
MedfordTim @ 8:
ya...lets just ignore him and everyone else
in fact, why have political blogs at all...they just irritate us by pointing out what the bad guys are doing
you wanna stick your head in the sand, go right ahead
i want to know what these guys are up to and how to fight them
maybe you should spend more time watching online porn...you will feel better
JTM @ 3:
Obama, of course. But Holy Joe has been playing Bert to McCain's Ernie (or is is vice versa?) If they don't like HJ, they probably don't like McCain either.
What kind of a-hole would openly promote clemency for Scarface?!
displaced @ 34:
I think stating that Fascism and Nazism are two different things is like stating the Empire of the Comnenines is a different thing than the Principate, semi-accurate, but ignoring that as Alexius I Comnenus's Byzantine Empire was an outgrowth of Principate Rome, so was Hitler's movement an outgrowth of Mussolini's movement.
If you're referring to Greater Israel, that theory IMHO is associated more with Stormfronter types than rational people. Judaism is not a race or a nation, it is outside of modern Western analysis for the same reason that Hinduism is, or Aboriginal American or Australian societies, it evolved outside the context of Western culture and science. Falasha Jews from Ethiopia have little in common with Persian Jews, or Arab Jews (yes, Arabs have converted to Judaism), or with Karaite Jews in Lithuania or the Haredi New York community. Judaism is not homogenous, and pretending it is, is racism.
General_Rennenkampf @ 24:
***sorry, mentioning facism does not automatically entail the holocaust policy
Ken @ 39:
Actually, it kinda does for the same reason that mentioning the Old West entails the Sand Creek and Wounded Knee policy, or mentioning the Confederate battle flag and state's rights together is racist. Fascism and its Nazi variant are as clearly bound with the 1940s and the Second World War genocides as Communism is with the USSR. No worming out of this one for "kascina."
CiantGock @ 16:
That would be your prerogative in this country. It doesn't change the fact that these warmongers are more concerned with Israel than they are the United States of America. I am an American.
Leave Lieberman alone. He was so much help to Gore - looks like he doing the same for McCain
brando @ 31:
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 35:
ciant sock@16 I saw no anti-semetic words by kasinca@7, lieberman is a zionist,war monger and chickenhawk, anti-zionist is not anti-semetic, little touchy about being a jew are we?-CEO
CEO,citizens,eyes,open @ 45:
In a nation where people can't distinguish between Pashtuns, Lombards, or Arabs, I think the distinction between "Zionist" and "Yehudim" may get lost to some.
General@46, Hi general, not a surprise, since the distinction between up and down is a mystery to some-CEO
lieberman is self destructing amongst connecticut jews. the hagee forum and speech has doomed him.
i went to a social event at a local synagogue the other night. wow, did i get a earfull about that. his name is mud.
CEO,citizens,eyes,open @ 47:
I think that's unfortunately true. LOL.
Since the majority of Jewish voters reject him, I guess he'll have to become an Independent Jew.
I'm 75 & a lifelong resident of Connecticut. Joe
is taking a lot of flack but he has been a good
senator for our state. Of course he's a traitor
to his constituents but if you list the good he's
done for we nutmegers you can see why he gets
elected. I will list some of his accomplishments,
starting with the number 1.
1-
& there is plenty more where that came from.
So finally the 600 lb gorilla in the room comes out, that possibly our unchecked support for Israel might be having some adverse effects. Jefferson warned of "entangling alliances"
Stating that Fascism in it's proper meaning and context automatically calls for the destruction of the Jews is ignorant at best and a flat out obfuscation at worst, not to mention completely self-centered. Fascism in the 21st century won't have have brownshirts and jack boots.
Israel is like a child that was abused that grows up to abuse it's own children. The holocaust was horrible, but it doesn't give Israel carte blanche to run ruffshod over the Palestinians.
Have you ever read "Night" by Elie Weisel? One of the most amazing parts of that book was when he is working in an ammo factory and hears them preaching of "Zionism" when the Nazi Guards aren't looking. Here they are in the midst of extermination, and they are talking about doing to somebody else what is being done to them at the same exact moment.
General Dian had stick orders NOT to take the West Bank and the Gaza strip in the 67 war because it would be a burden on the State of Israel, a thorn in their sides behind their lines. Success came so quick in the Sinai, he got cocky and did it anyway. One of the greatest military blunders of the 20th century.
Maybe because American Jews are Americans first. Being Jewish isn't about supporting Israel, it's about supporting the Abrahamic god Jews believe in. That's pretty far fetched from the absolute bull shit Lieberman spouts every day. It makes me think how much better Gore could have done in 2000 if he hadn't picked that useless piece of shit as a running mate.
I don't think it was any surprise that Joe was an Israeli agent and not a defender of the American constitution.
Zionism is a nationalist movement with separate left, right, centrist and theocratic political tendencies. The Palestinian movement is also a nationalist movement with a similar political makeup. By the characterizations of the anti-Zionists (who always claim they're not anti-Semitic) if one applies the same standards to the Palestinians, would it not also be legitimate to call the Palestinian movement racist? If not, why not?
Oh, and could it not also be possible that Lieberman's political positions and his constant trashing of the Democratic party might be motivated by other factors than his Judaism? Couldn't it be that he's just a rat bastard and a tool of the US Military Industrial Complex and corporate interests?
The exclusive focusing like a laser beam on Lieberman's religious orientation betrays a certain kind of narrow minded racism. As well, the classification of Zionism as a racist ideology while not applying it to every other ethnic nationalist movement (including the Palestinians) reveals a kind of hypocrisy and deeply rooted racism.
Myself, I certainly don't support Israeli policies towards the Palestinians, just as I don't support Hamas or Hezbollah. They are all in the thrall of right wing theocratic nationalists. To find a peaceable humane and rational end to the conflict in the middle east we must find ways to marginalize right wing hardliners, fanatics and racists on both sides. Simply throwing out the specious claim that Zionism is racism is not only a baseless stereotype, it empowers extremists and marginalizes moderates.
General_Rennenkampf @ 22:
Have you ever looked up the definition of fascism? Zionism fits very nicely under that umbrella. Just because Hitler chose to persecute the Jews, doesn't make the Israeli persecution of Muslims acceptable. Nor does it excuse the fascist tactics that Lieberman supports. In fact it makes it much more repugnant. You would expect more from a people who should have learned a lesson from the business end of fascism.
Don't brow beat us with holocaust smoke screens. This isn't 1933. Go play your anti-semitic card somewhere else.
Amen brotha
Capt. Bat Hussein Guano @ 9:
it has a certain ring to it when put that way :)
Sure there are Zionist Fascists, as well as Zionist Conservarives, Socialists, Communists, Liberals, Theocrats and just about every other political tendency you can think of. To lump them all in one boat is ignorance, simple-minded black and white thinking and prejudice of the worst sort. It does nothing to help find a solution to the conflict in the middle east or aid the Palestinian cause.
Snowball @ 52:
That's like asking why the Native Americans shouldn't have been eradicated for living on OUR land. It's simple if you turn the pages of your history book back a bit. Go back to the point where the Israelis, supported by the US and England, killed and compartmentalized the Palestinians. Much like was done to every tribe of Native Americans in this country who fought to keep their own land. If you had paid attention in school, you would have noticed that Israel wasn't a nation before 1948 and before that it was a mostly Arab. Maybe that's why.
General_Rennenkampf @ 22:
It beggars the mind that Joe Lieberman who is Jewish and has a wife whose family were holocaust surviviors,
which prob means they lost various members when fleeing Europe or surviving WW2.
So what does 'honest' Joe do, he goes and sucks up to the moneybags Rev. 'Adolf' Hagee,
he of the actual words "Hitler was good for the Jews" and "Jews dont have human souls"
Hagee should be anathema and poison to anybody with a brain and most definitely anybody with a fraction of Jewish heritage.
Lieberman class, race, and political traitor, pretty much a waste of space and offensive to the soul.
JustSickOfIt @ 58:
Aside from the fact that you didn't answer the question,
what's your solution? Do you propose a viable one that's acceptable to all parties in the conflict?
ferrofluid (nov 08:) @ 56:
Thank you, a writing teacher once said to me: "Brevity is the soul of wit." I think it's from some fucker named Shakespeare or some thing like that.
Snowball @ 61:
To answer your first question, yes, the Palistinian movement is racist, but since they're not the ones in power and their not the ones creating walled ghettos, were not in a position (yet!) to criticize them.
The answer your second question is a three step process:
1. Get all the racism on BOTH sides to stop and create an Israeli state where Palistinians and Isrealis participate in the government equally.
2. ???
3. World peace.
It's a toughie.
Not bad displaced, thanks for a reasoned response. I would argue however, that neither the Palestinian movement nor Zionism are racist, although both have far right racist factions in them. I posed the question not to condemn the Palestinian movement, but to get people to tone down the rhetoric and realize that both sides have legitimate grievances and both sides employ illegitimate means to their respective ends.
JustSickOfIt @ 54:
No, Israeli persecution of the Palestinians does bear an uncomfortable resistance to Manifest Destiny and Nazism. It does make their brutality towards Palestinians uncomfortable, but after the Holocaust, the Western Powers were going to move the Jews somewhere. Name one habitable piece of land that would not have provoked squabbling between Jews and any other group of people.
The Israeli government is not a theocratic regime, anyhow, Zionism is a secular idea, one supported by people who would have been, and still are anathema to devout Jews. Yes, Israeli actions do bear a nasty resemblance to fascist-style expansionism. The only logical way to stop the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is if Israel drops the idea of the Jewish state.
Lordy! My last post was loaded with grammatical errors. I must get some sleeeeeeozzszcgzgzz...
General_Rennenkampf @ 65:
No, Israeli persecution of the Palestinians does bear an uncomfortable resistance to Manifest Destiny and Nazism. It does make their brutality towards Palestinians uncomfortable, but after the Holocaust, the Western Powers were going to move the Jews somewhere. Name one habitable piece of land that would not have provoked squabbling between Jews and any other group of people.
It's very fitting that you should mention Manifest Destiny. A few years ago, maybe 2003, I was watching Alon Pinkas being interviewed on Hardball, and he said (paraphasing him here), "Like you [Americans] we have a Manifest Destiny..." As someone of Mexican and Native American background, I could help but wonder if Mr. Pinkas has any idea whatsoever what kind of negative impact Manifest Destiny has had on millions of people, and does he even care for that matter!
I do feel sympathy for the average Israeli who has to live in fear of an attack, but Pinkas' comment helped me sympathize with the average Palestinian and what they have to put up with as a result of Pinkas and people like Lieberman... *sigh*
Snowball @ 52:
It's really simple. According to Zionism, non-Jews do not have equal rights in Israel. If a Muslim who was forced out of his home in 1948 wanted to come back to, say, Jaffa, Israel wouldn't allow him to do so. But, if a Jewish immigrant, who was born and raised in Russia wanted to immigrate to Israel, he'd be welcomed, will be granted full rights and have his/her Israeli citizenship in a matter of months.
Palestinians on the other hand, do not exclude anyone based on their religion. It's a nationalist movement, sure. But, if you, as a Jew wanted to become Palestinian, you could move to Ramallah, for example, and apply for citizenship based on the Palestinian Authority's naturalization laws. There are plenty of Christian Palestinians, in case you didn’t know. And there are still some Arab Jews, in Syria for example, who have Syrian citizenship.
That's the difference.