There is something rotten in the State of Denmark!

I thought you knew….EVERYONE’S got it nowadays…

What makes you say that Hatfill was “wrongly accused”? That the gov’t paid him a pile of money is no evidence (to me) that Hatfill is innocent.

I don’t believe any of it. And everyone, even NPR, is spewing these personal items about Ivins. Which is exactly why we had to pay Hatfill 6 million.
It’s easy to talk about someone who can’t defend himself. This is a sham.

really, the FBI’s story seems like it was pulled from a really bad novel.

from the crazy-insane scientist (who just happened to be one of the army’s top experts on anthrax)

to the immediate character assassination after the story broke (he liked young girls, dont’cha know)

to the suicide–before he was ever talked to by any non-govt sources (convenient, helps the FBI frame the story however they please)

if this were the plot of a new novel i think most people would think it too cliche.

but, that said, i am not ready to declare any govt conspiracy (for several unmentioned reasons). although, things smell like rotting fish meat.

Cleaned up nicely just before BushCo leaves office.. how conveeeeenient.

The “suspect” died in the psych ward. The mainstream media is also trying to keep away from the public that Bruce Ivins died in the mental hospital. YOU DONT GET YOU HANDS ON DRUGS THAT CAN KILL YOU IN A PSYCH WARD.

Bruce Ivins was supposed to be released the following down.

DR. PHILILP ZACK is the REAL suspect.

I love Anthrax’s “Attack of the Killer B’s”

Every research laboratory is registered. All infectious agents and who will be working with them are registered. Apparently they didn’t think to ask the NIH, USDA or the CDC who had this strain. Granted, agents were easier to get prior to 9/11 and it may have been something the lab had before the current checks and oversights. Retirees leave and don’t bother to dispose of what’s in the freezer before they walk out the door. But if there was a “pool” of potential labs to look at it shouldn’t have taken this long.

Thank you for covering this…it smells indeed…badly…and Skippy and Keith on Countdown has been covering it as well…the FBI press Conference yesterday took the cake- held during the poor man’s burial service ( so his friends and family would not see what was said about him…?)

Who knows what’s going on with this. You just can’t believe anything this government tells you.

Maybe they did not want to catch him. At the time they were leaking a connection to foreign terrorists. Doesn’t it follow that they just didn’t try very hard?

http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....9071.story

Here’s the LA Times article on the matter.

Bruce Ivins was supposed to be released the following day.

The anthraz Bruce had contact with was in a liquid form and not the powered form that was static treated and was coated in Bentonite.

Dr. Philip Zach was fired from fort Detrick for racial attacks and illegally came back to fort Detrick and was let in to the area by an old collegue of the lab with the weaponized anthrax. It was caught on camera BUT the FBI will not go after him.

The FBI, CIA and Department of Justice all have a credibility problem. They know it and could help themselves by being open to a credible peer examination and review. This was suggested by scientists as SOP when a conclusion is reached in someone’s research. The methodology and conclusions are attempted to be reproduced at other sites for verification and extrapolation for other conclusions then those drawn by the original researcher (the FBI labs). The results are then published in professional journals for further scrutiny. It’s called “science” for a reason. The FBI should welcome such a review and the opportunity to have their own credentials validated by the larger science community.

Jesus Christ, does every freakin thing this government do a consiracy to you John??I hope you are ready for this type of crap when Obama is elected. Except it will be Hannity, OReilly and team that will be over thinking everyting the government does. Our side has to hold itself to a higher standard than those nuts. Please get a hold of yourself…

Mr. Blade needs to step away from the Kool Aid. He was found in his house, unconscious, and was taken to the hospital, where he died two days later. He was not scheduled for release, since he wasn’t conscious.

I love a good conspiracy story and don’t think we have even a tenth of this one (yet). But you’re just being too weird. Go back to your Bldg 7 apartment and go some googling, dude.

Whoever it is in the FBI who killed/ordered killed Ivins, I hope they eventually fry. What a bogus bunch of crap.

Didn’t they say the cause of death was an overdose of acetaminophen?
I didn’t know acetaminophen could kill you. You’d have to take one helluva lot that drug to kill you.
And I think it would shut down your liver and or kidneys. Either way, you wouldn’t die immediately.

how fortunate for bush co. to have this investigation wrapped up so nicely . especially when the better part of this year has been spent on building his legacy. oh my, and in an election year no less.
i mean it is not like they have used the f.b.i. to benefit their own agenda on the past , rigtht?

Is C&L saying there was a conspiracy?

Philip M. Zack, Lt. Col. (retired), Ph.D., DVM is an American microbiologist. ‘Phil’ Zack worked at USAMRIID in Fort Detrick through December 1991, then at the US Army’s Walter Reed Institute, then for Eli Lilly, and then to a company in Colorado acquired by St. Louis’ Nexstar Financial Management.

The Hartford Courant newspaper ran a series of articles in December 2001 and January 2002 which discussed Dr. Zack as a “person of interest” in the 2001 anthrax attacks in the US, his relationship with Dr. Marian K. Rippy, and their harassment of Dr. Ayaad Assaad at USAMRIID in 1991. [1] After Zack had been fired from Fort Detrick, a surveillance camera recorded him being let in at 8:40 p.m. on Jan. 23, 1992, apparently by Dr. Marian Rippy.[2] Salon magazine ran a story by Laura Rozen on January 26, 2002, which reported that Zack was among those: “eager to continue working on projects USAMRIID said they should stop. What followed, the documents reveal, were scientists sneaking into the Army biowarfare lab to work on pet projects after-hours and on weekends, former workers like Zack, who left in 1991, still being let in to do lab work, pressure applied to technicians to help out, documents going missing, and deliberate mislabeling of specimens among other efforts to hide unsanctioned lab work.”[3]

Not only can Tylenol kill you, but it’s a very painful death. Any one with Ivins’ experience would know this. He would also have access to many less-painful ways to kill himself.

Of course, I’m not sure if LSD makes it easier. Maybe it does. So, maybe it wasn’t so painful. And maybe he was too paranoid to come up with an easier method.

Here, lies the flaw in their plan.

With all past, alledged or legit, conspiracy coverups it would be easy to pull off. By controlling/influencing only a select few newspaper editors or television producers, they could control the message. Unanswered questions wouldn’t get beyond the watercooler, and then forgot about by the next week. Holes could go unpatched. However, with the internet, you got many great minds willing to expose those holes to a degree that has not been possible in the past.

Sorry neo-con mafia, but Ivin’s cement shoes aren’t sinking this time.

Then I think an honest organization, if there is one left in this country, should look into the so called suicide. I don’t believe he committed suicide…I guess since we question this whole damn investigation we will be next.

Well…Ronnie, I can totally see your POV…but I think, as with so many other instances in this administration…if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.
The levels of corruption and incompetence in this administrations handling of absolutely everything just really boggles the mind…
An FBI cover up is totally within the realm of possibilities here.

8 samples had the mix that Ivins lab had.

And so the people with access to the blended mix are the people that had access one of those samples.

All the facts unveiled so far is that the same is “downstream” of that flask.

mudshark @ 19:

Didn’t they say the cause of death was an overdose of acetaminophen?
I didn’t know acetaminophen could kill you. You’d have to take one helluva lot that drug to kill you.
And I think it would shut down your liver and or kidneys. Either way, you wouldn’t die immediately.

It musta been a SHIT load of acetaminophen…

Yeah this thing really does smell bad.
This suicide is too convenient,too cut and dried for the FBI and government.
Ivins may as well have had “Patsy” stamped on his forehead.

Dear C&L: Please add the very helpful link to the “Anthrax Vaccine” blog- by Dr. Meryl Nass. (Glenn Greenwald continually references her in his own posts on the troubling aspects of the FBI’s case against Ivins.) She worked alongside Ivins for years, is one of the world’s leading experts on Anthrax, and has continued to provide invaluable insights on the FBI’s case from a true authority. Her skepticism about the FBI’s “conclusive” case should be troubling to all of us.

Consider her recent posts:

Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?

FBI Subjectivity and Disinformation

More than 100 people had access

Now just one minute here. Bush told us it was Al Qaeda? This guy didn’t look like no Al Qaeda to me. What am I not getting here?

Hey. I’m not for letting somebody off the hook just because I hate everything the government is up to these days but this crap does not add up. That guy on Olbermann laid it out very nicely last night and last Friday night. There is definitely something wrong here. But of course Joe Sixpack and Betty Winebox will eat it up like it is a double decker Big Mac.

Did any one else notice who Keith Olbermann had on Countdown last night as his “investigative journalist” that just couldn’t accept that Ivins acted alone & was horrified that he was being convicted by the media after a suspicious death?
One Gerald Posner, acclaimed author of Case Closed the great Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman, there was no conspiracy, disinformation masterpiece.
He’s gotten all this traction as a questioner of the official 9/11 story but i’m questioning the guys motives & allegiances.

Yeah, throw a dead guy under the bus! Er…

FOX is State Sponsored TV @ 4:

I don’t believe any of it. And everyone, even NPR, is spewing these personal items about Ivins. Which is exactly why we had to pay Hatfill 6 million.
It’s easy to talk about someone who can’t defend himself. This is a sham.

Are you referring to NPR finding that Ivin’s played a murder in a play in HS? Yeah, it was painfully obvious that they were reaching with that one. I was jack the ripper in a college play which makes me a serial killer, i guess.

Personally, i think that this guy knew what was coming his way..
and thats why he commited suicide.
He probably framed the other scientist accused of the anthrax attack to get away with the attempt.
He did darken the reputation of those accused but justice would eventually get here.

The FBI only went after Hatfill and Ivins because they couldn’t make a case against Richard Jewell.

Fucking Bunch of Incompetents - the FBI - your tax dollars at work.

If the FBI worked as hard in the ’90s on counter-terrorism as they worked for Starr and Freeh in order to overthrow the president of their own country (treason?), then there never would have been a 9-11.

Maybe this is the second time the FBI has tried to pin the case on some fall guy? Unfortunately, this time they struck pay dirt by picking someone who killed himself rather than fought back and filed suit. Given this administration’s certainty that their ends justified their means, maybe they figured this was just one more little stunt to help shore up their case for dictatorial powers and the license to go into Iraq; of course, they miscalculated and people ended up dying.

investigate 9/11 while your at it.

and JFK,

and MLK,

and RFK,

and so on and so on……

If you’re in the mood for conspiracies, this is what you should keep an eye out for.

1) People start making noises about the lack of an autopsy.

2) The body is cremated, possibly at the supposed request of the family.

Extra:

3) Something nice happens to the family. (They don’t seem to have a pile of DUIs to be ignored, so it will have to be something nice, instead of the removal of something bad.)

Have you ever seen a huge settlement like that right before they catch the real killer?

How about the $5 million the CIA (?) gave Habbush to write the letter tying al-Qaeda and Saddam and Yellowcake together? Suskind called $5 million a payoff (needs quotes).

what’s sad is that the braindead zombie american populace either don’t care or still believe the bs spewed by the gov’t

Funny how the important witnesses and suspects all wind up dead.

another sticky aspect of the official story is the anthrax dna side of it.

not to say this isn’t real, isn’t efficacious, etc.

just that for the vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast majority of people we’ll never have the knowledge to judge whether the dna claims are accurate.

it is harder to pick apart a contentious story when the deciding factor is beyond the scope of understanding of the public.

(note: i know NOTHING about dna technology)

What’s wrong with YouTube?

This is quite the impressive performance by the FBI. Use Scientist A as a source to investigate Scientist B, who the FBI blames for sending the Anthrax. Do this for several years and never come to a conclusion, file charges or get an indictment against Scientist B. Settle a lawsuit for defamation of character with Scientist B, that the FBI originally blamed, with the help of the Scientist A. Immediately after settling with Scientist B, blame Scientist A, who the FBI used a source and then paint him as crazy despite everything that previous happened. Conveniently, Scientist A is now dead and therefore can’t sue like Scientist B did.

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

This story was very insane it took the FBI several years just to trackdown an scientist that was working with this deadly white powder that was placed in the mail of innocent bystanders , He made the bigggest mistake ever by working with a susbstance that can actually kill humans my view is that this guy is an idiot he must pay for his mistakes and next time the FBI should work harder and put more focus on the issues occuring in the community catching these people and cracking down on issuses is the way things should go thank god they finnally figured this case out.

Not even the Freeperz believe this. Of course, unlike us, they’re determined to find a Moozie to blame. But the fact that they see the same glaring holes in this that we do makes me wonder just who is fooling whom. Busco is not even fooling some of the people some of the time with this one.

Its been asked over and over since the announcement that the FBI got their man who killed himself: HOW DID SOMEONE WITH MR. IVINS HISTORY OF MENTAL PROBLEMS GET CLEARANCE TO WORK ON WEAPONS GRADE ANTHRAX?

Someone is lying! Someone screwed up! Someone Paid off???

I hate this, all of this! Eight years ago I told anyone who would listen especially Bushies (people supporting W in 2000) that we would be on the brink of economic disaster by the end of W’s term. Said the same thing in 2004 and those people still think he did a good job. NOW, we have all that we know about what happened and how the American public was lied to, Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table, high price of gas, heating oil, GOP lies about drilling and every other f@#$ing problem so we can all feel better because the Anthrax guy killed himself (maybe) and no one in government can make the connection that maybe, just maybe there’s a little skull-duggery (skull and crossbones?) going on?
I don’t feel any safer - Do You?

One of his heirs needs to file a wrongful death suit against the FBI (we can contribute to the fund). The discovery process should be able to force the FBI to provide all of the documents it has rather than just enough to bamboozle folks. Come January, maybe we can get a Congressional investigation?

surfjac @ 38:

Have you ever seen a huge settlement like that right before they catch the rea