Pakistan reserves right of retaliation against US
By Cernig Friday Sep 05, 2008 6:55pm
Following a couple of very high-profile attacks on suspected terrorists into Pakistan in recent days - both of which the Pakistanis say hit civilians instead - the Pakistani military has said it reserves the right to strike back.
General Tariq Majid, chairman of Pakistan's Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, said cross-border strikes such as the one on Wednesday would alienate ethnic Pashtuns, who live on both sides of the border, and be counter-productive. "Pakistan reserves the right to appropriately retaliate," he told visiting German Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung.
Growing Pakistani hostility to their nation's role in the US-led "war on terror" isn't just confined to the military, and may well be the reason behind a hurried top-level conference aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln in the Indian Ocean on Tuesday. Participants included Admiral Mullen, General Petraeus and Pakistan's military chief, General Kiyani.
“The meeting was mainly to continue to discuss ongoing operations against extremists in the border region and to work together to find better ways to solve those problems,” said one American military official who was briefed on the talks. Admiral Mullen met with General Kayani just a month ago in Islamabad, Pakistan. It was then that this week’s meeting was scheduled, the military official said. In Islamabad, he said, Admiral Mullen had bluntly warned General Kayani that Pakistan had to do more to combat militants in the restive tribal areas. The gathering aboard the Abraham Lincoln was less confrontational in tone, aides said. “It was one of those meetings to help clear up the situation, get an understanding of the issues, and look for a way forward,” said a senior Pakistani officer briefed on the discussions. Military officials from both countries declined to say whether commanders had reached any new agreement to allow American Special Operations forces greater access to Pakistan’s tribal areas to conduct missions to kill or capture top leaders of Al Qaeda who have found sanctuary there.
I find myself wondering if the threat to retaliate caused that new, less confrontational, tone. The Pakistani threat to take up arms against it's allies - and that really is a shocking development - should change everyone's gameplan, and it will be interesting to see if that filters through to the policy statements of the presidential candidates.
(Meanwhile, Condi Rice is hailing the election of a mad, corrupt politician with with no previous executive experience as the new Pakistani president. She told reporters "I'm looking forward to working with him". Go figure.)
CNN's Becky Anderson leads a roundtable discussion about security on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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i can see this one coming ... pakistan is going to do something, mccain and palin get elected, mccain keels over and palin is in charge of the end times.
i can't wait.
The Neocons know they are going to lose this election. They will attempt to start a war to nullify or postpone the election. Pakistan, Georgia/Russia, Iran, take your pick ... they are working on all fronts ...
Hang on kids, here come the events the repukes can't control. It would appear the seed that has been sown is just about ready for the harvest. If this thing blows up, short of invoking martial law the neocreeps are done. Man this sh*t is getting spooky.
Boy am I glad we decided to invade Iraq instead of focusing on Afghanistan and shutting down the Taliban and/or Al Qaeda. Real heads up move there.
Well folks you just knew something like this was bound to happen. Here's hoping Obama wins in Nov. McCain and Palin are just crazy enough to start another war that more than likely can be avoided
No one noticed last week the U.S. sent special forces into the village of Jalal Khei in South Waziristan at around 3 a.m. and immediately targeted three houses? The engagement lasted for about 30 minutes and left between 15 and 20 people dead, including women and children.
We are so like . . . ASLEEP at the WHEEL
L.A. Confidential @ 6:
Now if this had been the Russians we'd be drowning-gasping for air from a blitzkrieg of coverage from the MSM right to this exact moment.
Also, Pakistan temporarily blocked a resupply road from Peshawar to Western Afghanistan via the Torkham border crossing :
"The suspension of supplies to NATO forces in Afghanistan shows Pakistan is serious about safeguarding its territorial integrity, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar told Dawn News on Saturday... Pakistani authorities had suspended the supplies on Friday and stopped over 30 NATO trucks at the Torkham border due to security concerns."
Wheh! Thank God Bush is helping India with it's nuke program! That's good, right? Right? NO? Fuck.....
God help us to GET RID of these Republican in charge!
Of course Condi is looking forward to working with him. She is just as crazy as he is. Add to that all of the other nutjobs running the countries surrounding Pakistan and we have a perfect combination of trouble. Big-time trouble. And is Cheney still in Georgia?
This world gets scarier by the day.
Hey, warmongering right-wing cock-buckets: I'm laughing at the "New American Century".
calgarylady @ 11:
Racist mysogynist!
Loonie @ 12:
Their motto is ‘Look Backward,’ and their watchword is. ‘That which has never been, cannot be.”
Well it may save our butts while kicking the sh*t out of the economy for while but the folks we owe lots of money to may just shut us down if the neocreeps keep this nonsense up.
Remember we're not in the driver's seat anymore in terms of our own economy. The neoclowns think they're running the show but when they turned us into the largest debtor nation in history they gave up control. Hunker down my brothers and sisters. Put some food in the pantry and be prepared to help your family, friends and neighbors if we hit a speed bump during the run up to the election.
'Dumb is as dumb does'
So which dumbfuck in the US gov decided that upsetting nuklear bomb armed Pakistan was a good idea.
Is this Chimpy's attempt at a legacy, war with Pakistan (pop 200million and various bombs missiles).
Can they really be that stupid !!!!
karen marie @ 1:
The End Times she seems fully qualified for.
Little else tho.
Chicken "Hussein" Little - Not! @ 15:
And if all else fails keeping lowering your standards. Problem there is one may as well jump off a cliff to reach the con standard.
It should also be pointed out that besides escalating the so-called "good war" in Afghanistan, Obama has also reserved the right, is he is elected president, to emulate the example of George W. Bush by also sending troops into Pakistan in order to pursue the "war on terrorism." This is the basic choice that Americans will be facing this November, between two hawks who are quite eager to shed more blood for what they view as the good of the cause.
L.A. Confidential @ 6:
Thats an outright act of war, nothing could excuse armed aggression by one gov's forces against targets in another country.
Let's see, how many enemies can the US make? Have we ever had a more inept SOS than Condi?
Erroll @ 19:
US troops have been in Pakistan helping their forces fight regional forces in the past,
I read a news article which mentioned US Rangers or similar doing something, circa 2000/2001
L.A. Confidential @ 18:
Ya lost me there LA, I understand the reference to cliff jumping but don't get where it fits into my looking for something that might put the brakes on these maniacs before we go over the cliff of limited or all out nuclear engagement. Help me out here, my back is in full spasm and it's wearing me out today.
calgarylady @ 11:
Nope, Italy, doing what he can to stir up trouble.
(Ha'aretz) Cheney to Peres: Russia supplies terrorist arms
Just imagine Palin as VP ..
This is proof positive that democracies have no USE for the US and it's faux 'War on Terror' which is a euphanism for 'kill the darkies and steal their oil'.
Just how many nuclear armed countries can Bush piss off in the time that is left?
We better start memorizing those old Vera Lynn lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-L2cv6_Gc8
US forces in Pakistan?
October surprise. They want to show Bin Laden just before the elections.
kdoug @ 2:
I have no doubt their only saving grace from the guillotine (yes, I mean it) is Martial Law and a real war.
Chicken "Hussein" Little - Not! @ 23:
I don't know what to do to reign in these maniacs.
jesus, what a fucking mess...
ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 22:
I am not in dispute with what you had written. Does the fact that U.S. forces were in Pakistan make it right? As many as 20 Pakistani civilians were killed in this attack, many of them women and children. Cernig is shocked, shocked! that the Pakistanis are considering "taking up arms against its allies." When foreign troops invade another country and begin to covertly kill its citizens, it then should come as little surprise if that attacked country should decide to lash out against its attacker. The point is that Obama is painting himself as this [alleged] agent of change and yet he is proposing to do the same exact thing as Bush is doing now and as the U.S. has done, [as you write], in the past. Who weeps for those dead Pakistanis? Certainly not Barack Obama. The depressing thing is that so many Americans continue to cling to the idea that Obama will somehow be so different than the current administration while his words and the past deeds of his foreign advisers say otherwise.
Winning new allies everywhere.
Thanks, MountainMan. Cheney's in Italy, eh? Pissing them off, too, no doubt.
I agree, the thought of Dick Cheney being replaced by Sarah Palin is absolutely terrifying.
What has Bush done in the last 8 years that he hasn't F**ked up? Scandals, wars, foreign policy, the list goes on and on.
Peter S. @ 4:
heads up their arses, yes.
nuke us till we glow? ouch
yes this is just great. bush & co are wasting billions overseas on stupid adventures and rescuing their pals in Wall Street. McSame will keep doing the same.
Erroll @ 31:
The point is that in the past, joint operations between US and Pakistani forces did whatever , picked off or up Gitmo types.
This one is different, as in US just went in and did something for itself, angering the Pakistanis, and freaking out their population.
Arrogance, and maybe thinking that overlords dont have to ask permission inside client countries.
Wow, this sounds serious.
Has President McShitstain dispatcched his ambassadors, Sen Limpsey Graham, and Sen. Holy Joe Loserman to pacify the situation?
Erroll @ 31:
can we just assume they are being duped?
€Punk @ 27:
Ding Ding Ding We have a winner!
Putting country first means recklessly trying to kill Bin Ladin regardless of any serious repercussions from collateral damage or possibly provoking a military response from
Pakistan.
MacDaKnife @ 21:
Maybe Madeleine "It's worth it if half-a-million Iraqi children die" Albright?
The shipboard meeting was less confrontational only because Cheney was occupied elsewhere, being a Dick in Georgia.
Anybody remember, less than a week before she was assassinated, Benazir Bhutto let it slip that Bin laden had been dead for three years???
woody@44, I didn't hear that.
P.D. @ 45:
Here
"I am not sure who will win World War III, but I do know that World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones". Unknown
Northwest Washington @ 47:
I think it was Herman Kahn of the RAND Corp in an unguarded moment...
woody, tokin librul @ 44:
I don't remember hearing this
calgarylady @ 33:
How about this one. John McCain stepping down for "health reasons" and Sarah Palin selecting Dick Cheney as a VP running mate?
woody@46, Holy crap! I'm pissed! This was buried! I'm a political junky and I never knew about this.
How's that "Project for a New American 2/25th of Century" going for ya, chimpboy?
Thanks for nothing, you miserable piece of shit.
woody, tokin librul @ 48:
I thought it was Albert Einstein, but I could be wrong.
fastfeat@52, I couldn't put it better myself.
Mary S @ 49:
Check it out.
fastfeat @ 53:
I was just guessing...i din't look it up...
woody@55, My Lord, I'm trying to asorb this. Where was MSM? This is so shocking, I'm stunned. Even a C-span junkie like me had no idea. This is going to haunt me.
woody, tokin librul @ 44:
Yes, seen the video.
The assassin that she claimed to have supposedly taken out OBL, was also the killer of the journalist Daniel Perle.
And as he was arrested and taken into custody February 12, 2002, this puts a definite timeline on OBL's supposed death.
Only in America has OBL's death been ignored, esp with all those joke videos released year after year for GOP advantage.
The world's media reported it in various forms.
We are living in scary times my friends. I can't believe what Bush has reduced us too.
Northwest Washington @ 50, something like that could happen so easily. Chilling, isn't it?
Northwest@50, That sent chills down my spine!
calgarylady @ 60:
Cheney has to be in almost as bad a shape as WcCain, pacemaker and related health issues.
Theres a good reason for all the talk of his undisclosed location, they prob mean hospital or a rest recuperation clinic.
Only in America has OBL’s death been ignored, esp with all those joke videos released year after year for GOP advantage.
The world’s media reported it in various forms.
That's cuz the State/Crisis Corporations require a continuous state of anxiety, worry, fear, and dislocation among the citizens to enact those measures it couldn't otherwise force pasat the legislature without such stimuli...Naomi Klein formalized the analysis, but lots of folks have been saying the like, since Ivan Illich, probably...
That would be one of them rhetorical questions...
Seriously though, it's so tragic. If the US and it's allies had thrown their full weight into Afghanistan, the Taliban could have been routed, and Bin Laden captured. Instead, they are regrouping, gathering strength, and Bin Laden is nowhere to be found. And now, 'closing the deal' on the Taliban may require a dangerous game of brinksmanship with an unstable regime in Pakistan. Great.
woody, tokin librul @ 56:
Here it is:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080330182854AASV7LH
Nicholas @ 64:
You're mistake is thinking he 'fucked up' everything he touched. It's only fucked up if you're a citizen. If you're a corporation, or a member of the Oiligarchy or the Pollutocracy, he did EVERYTHING right! He did exactly what he was installed to do: to damage, disable, or destroy any and every instrument or institution of public, popular sovereignty which might impede the transfer of the loyalties of 'consumers' from the "State" to the "Corporation" (Thing "BRAND")... At that, the fathermuckers have been goddamn near flawless...
Nicholas@64, You're right, it is tragic. The fact McCain might win this thing, is down right terrifying! Are Americans this dumb? I'm afraid the answer is yes. We are doomed because he didn't learn the lessons from our past, and now we may repeat them. Isn't that a famous saying?
When one lays down with dogs, he gets up with fleas. Which one is the dog?
P.D. @ 59:
Just what he has reduced the good name of the US to, not us! We MUST take back this country in November.
Red Headed StepChild @ 9:
g-damit wheres my mangos ,answer me that?
Yes, before reading the comments all I could think of when reading about the meetings with the our military high-ups and the Pakistanis is that Bush is pushing the military to move heaven and earth to find and/or kill Osama bin Laden before the election in November.
Pretty scary thought... not only would Bush be driven to remove the main taunt he's endured for years about not taking out OBL, but McCain would almost be guaranteed the White House, and we would be doomed.
That is unless OBL has already checked out... let's hope he has.
Middle East experts or even anyone who knew thing one about the Middle East knew this would be the result of going into Afghanistan.
we will be at war with Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq. After what we've accomplished so far, we have no excuse to attack Iran.
Maybe we should let blackwater handle it from now on so we can deal with the russians.
Hattie @ 72:
thie is not because of going into afghanistan. it is the result of thinking that we are some mythical unipolar power. the doctring of od hoc bombing 'enemies' no matter where they are is not going to be tolerated any longer.
they killed 90 people, 60 children and think it's ok. If I were Pakistani, I'd think I had just about enough of americas right to kill people in my country.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 74:
spellchecked
Northwest Washington @ 47:
it will be fought by creatures other than man.
Chicken "Hussein" Little - Not! @ 3:
Declaring martial laws is just what they have in mind
karen marie @ 1:
Or some pro-life extremist tries to put VP Palin in charge, which I am also worried about.
Mary S @ 49:
I remember. It was in an interview in GB, I believe with david frost.
tyree @ 70:
Ha!!
Red Headed StepChild @ 9:
Inaccurate. India has had a nuke program for ages (first Nuke test in 1970's).
Bush has been helping them with nuclear energy technology.
Well it was bound to happen since we've been shooting rockets from high altitude recon birds and killing civilians on the ground. Can't say I can blame the Pakistani's for getting a bit uptight about the blatant disregard for their country and citizens. Not that they are exactly innocent of supporting the enemy, but BushCo has been claiming what a great ally they are!
Does this mean they are going to toss the family atomic's into the air at Afghanistan? I'd have to say there is a strong possibility of a major escalation on this turn of events. Kiss all those troops on the ground goodbye when that happens.
We should could use some good leadership about now, shame the Repukes aren't qualified to wipe their ass without making a pass at the fellow next door.
Meanwhile, Condi Rice is hailing the election of a mad, corrupt politician with with no previous executive experience as the new
PakistaniAmerican president.McCain and Mr. 10% are two peas.
Am I missing something here? Why would ANY country give up their "right to retaliation"!?! I'm sure we haven't given up OUR right to retaliation, have we!?!
Since our current foreign policy seems to include our "right to carry out unprovoked attacks", claiming a "right to retaliation" doesn't seem all that unreasonable, per se, but largely unnecessary, right!?! The idea IS still cooperation, isn't it!?! To steer clear of all that aggression/retaliation stuff!?!
woody, tokin librul @ 66:
This would be correct - although I'd give the major credit to Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al - Bush is just the lying sock puppet out front.
They also have managed to pass copious legislation and issued executive orders and Presidential directives, which I have listed on C&L many times before, that provide the
"unitary executive" with dictatorial powers in the event of a national emergency. And, by the way, the President is the one who gets to determine what constitutes a natianal emergency.
This is why I think they just let McCain have the run at the Presidency - let him have his fun, put Palin on the ticket and give everybody a laugh. They, Cheney/Bush don't care, 'cause they're not planning on leaving the scene just yet.
The real threat from Pakistani hostility
The real problem isn't what the Pakistani military could do directly to our folks in Afghanistan. The real problem is that our folks in Afghanistan are hundreds of miles and a mountain range or two from an ocean dominated by the US Navy. As long as that distance lies through a friendly Pakistan, this is not a problem. But if Pakistan turns on us, then the former Central Asian Republics of the Soviet Union (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tadjikistan, and all them 'stans) come under pressure from a resurgent Russia to deny us airbases in their countries, and then they and Russia deny us use of their airspace for resupply and evacuation... The NATO forces in Afghanistan would be well and truly fucked. A couple of weeks without resupply and the Taliban would be able to police the whole lot of them up.
There's a very practical reason we should respect the Geneva Convention, and not blindly and arrogantly assume that we can treat our captured adversaries like shit because the other side will never capture any of our own. This is one of the lessons that you would have hoped that McCain would have learned from his captivity. Horrrible as was his treatment at the hands of our adversaries, had they treated him as we treated them when we captured them, handing them over to the South Vietnamese and certain death, McCain would never have made it home alive.
We are not invincible. This news from Pakistan should be treated as a warning that there is an excellent chance that tens of thousands of our troops could end up as EPWs. Should they receive Guantanamo treatment, or Abu Ghraib treatment, we would have no one to blame but ourselves. We will have no one to blame but ourselves until we bring those guilty of the crimes of our gulag to justice.