frist

Just waiting for the wing nuts and corporate tools to show up. Where are you guys? You’re usually right on top of the action.

I saw it and Moore was DEAD CENTER RIGHT ON!

Besides, I’m flat sick on “Gupta” and the whole damn CNN political manipulation game.

I want something like Michael Moore TV Media outlet.

Distorted “facts” by the shill.

I don’t think based on what Dr. Gupta presented that Michael Moore “fudged the facts”. Moore selectively used statistics, but Gupta was really grasping at straws to prove Moore wrong. The only fudging here was in Wolf’s pants when Moore got done with him.

Nothing like a nice hit job before an interview to muddle the real facts.

Corporate world we live in.

We the people was gone a long time ago. Unless we stand up and claim it back.

I must have missed something. Dr. Gupta states that Mr. Moore fudged the facts (oh yes indeedy, he did!) but if one is talking about cost per capita figures between the US and Cuba, I’d say that the “real” dollar figures vs. MM’s figures are not that far off. Suffice it to say the difference in cost doesn’t translate to significantly better care. I worked in health care for 20 years and the system sucks. It needs a lot of work and not just a bunch of piece meal crap that’s been the mainstay of the industry since the early ’80’s and the DRG debacle. And if Moore accomplishes NOTHING, but getting people to pay attention to the sorry state of health care, I think he’s done a great service for our country.

I’m not sure if it’s a good idea to post this cnn propaganda on this site?

Ruse #1: Claim that because the other countries systems aren’t perfect, it’s not worth trying.

Ruse #2: Claim that because US citizens live a little bit longer than Cubans (a very poor country under the burden of a US embargo) that their system doesn’t work. To be honest, they should compare Cuba’s system to another Latin American country like Columbia’s (a US client state).

BTW, Cuba does have a lower infant death rate than the US.

What is the deal? Don’t these tools understand? We are wasting SO MUCH MONEY on health care.

I’m writing a letter to CNN, again. Assholes.

The system HERE is broken. It’s just a matter of time before it implodes.

It’s time to take capitalism out of medicine. Medicine should be a nonprofit business. PERIOD.

DR. Guppie is a liar. The facts are right there on Moores website. Moore does say The exact numbers so gupta lied. Paid per patient 229$ in Cuba 6,9oo something for the US Thats exactly what Moore has in the film.

I looked at this closely and they actually say to mutually contradictory things “his facts are right” and “he fudged the facts.” How can they get away with this? In part by having a “Health Care Consultant” from private industry explain the company line.

Anyone know what the good doctor earns from CNN?

Oh, that CNN is quick to see whether “controversial” Michael Moore’s facts check out. They did a “reality check” on his new movie, and almost everyone has something to say.

But when it comes to the “facts” that our government pushes every day, CNN doesn’t want to look too deeply. What a surprise.

And those 5% or so in other countries “going outside the system”? Was it for things like boob & nose jobs?

It’s a load of crap. I mean come on. We are the only Western without Universal health care. Is it because we are right and they are wrong? All of them? Nah. And Cuba, a poor, poor country has a comparable lifespan to us and spends almost nothing per capita for health care. I can’t believe CNN.

I think I would pay a little more taxes to prevent my fellow citizens from having go bankrupt just to get medical treatment. There’s nothing wrong with helping the people in your country.

WTF is wrong with cnn usa?

lemme break it down for you..

here in germany and other parts of europe yes we pay more taxes but that money is pumped back into the health care system.
And NO NO AND NO do we have to sit here for hours to have a dr see us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more lies by CNN USA!
if you have a boo boo, you go to the drs on the spot,, of it if happens late at night, the DRS MAKE HOUSE CALLS!! from there its then determined if a hospital is the right course of treatment.
24/7 pharmacys that deliver drugs if your incapable of driving due to old age, being sick with the flu or a impacted wisdom tooth etc.

what dr. sanje is suggestion is pure bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and he knows it , the little lying bitch. abber what does he care? hes paid by CNN usa and makes millions every year to lie,, and cheat americans from the real truth. Now lets be honest,, if dr, sanje took ill with a terminal disease,, do YOU really think he would seek health care in the states? NO

´´”First World treatment’ at Third World prices”. The cost differential across the board is huge: only a tenth and sometimes even a sixteenth of the cost in the West. Open-heart surgery could cost up to $70,000 in Britain and up to $150,000 in the US; in India’s best hospitals it could cost between $3,000 and $10,000. Knee surgery (on both knees) costs 350,000 rupees ($7,700) in India; in Britain this costs £10,000 ($16,950), more than twice as much. Dental, eye and cosmetic surgeries in Western countries cost three to four times as much as in India.´´

LINK http://www.health-tourism-india.com/why-india.html

SPARE US THE BULLSHIT CNN/USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael Moore “fudges facts”! How so? Stop asking questions. It’s true because the media keeps saying it.

Moore’s right. This is a hack job, missing the forest for the trees. And the assumed speed and efficiency of the American system is a myth. We wait months for appointments with MDs or PAs who hustle us in and and hustle us out, this system of insurance companies now encouraging patients to fly to India (!) for their health care. If we have to sneak into Canada for our drugs and fly to India for a bypass, how can anyone argue that the American system is working? It’s sure working for doctors and hospitals and insurance companies, but the rest of us are screwed.

Please, raise my taxes and provide universal health care. It will cost me less than the small fortune I pay each month for insurance premiums.

I wonder how much health care $10 billion/month buys.

The only “fact” Gupta could find Moore “fudged” on was a numerical error in capita spending on health care in Cuba ($229 vs. $25), which Gupta admitted was so minuscule in comparison to the U.S. per capita ($7,000) that it had no effect on Moore’s overall point. Therefore, it wasn’t a “fudge.”

Plus, the word “fudge” as a verb implies a deliberate, willful distortion rather than a researching or editing error. As such, Gupta failed to identify a SINGLE ITEM that Moore “fudged.”

These folks at CNN can’t even do an honest or competent “reality check.”

Bottom line. We are the richest country on the planet. 37th is a national disgrace. this is what happens when half our federal budget goes to wars so Halliburton and the war profiteers can get no bid government contracts at our expense. Dr. Sanjaya forgets to mention that I see.

he straight called moore a liar. i would have been mad too if i were moore.

…the average American should be as well covered as Dick Cheney for his umpteenth triple bypass in the best hospitals by the best doctors. Dr. Sanjaya forgets to mention this also.

I’m surprised that Moore didn’t mention Congress’s health care coverage.

These people need to talk to people like me who’ve actually dealt with multiple systems as a patient.

I lived in Canada for years, and while their system is not perfect (yes there are often waiting times for non-emergency surgeries, the key words being ‘non-emergency’ ) I would take it in a heartbeat over the costly clusterfuck I deal with here in the United States. You’d have to be crazy to do otherwise.

My wife is Canadian, and I have dual citizenship. We’re here because of my work, and we’re not staying a minute past retirement. It’s not safe to be old and of modest means in this country.

If I listen to CNN it’s for recreational purposes only….

Sad to say…..

To hear Michael Moore call something a hit piece is the height of hypocrisy!

John Doheny @ 27:

These people need to talk to people like me who’ve actually dealt with multiple systems as a patient.

I lived in Canada for years, and while their system is not perfect (yes there are often waiting times for non-emergency surgeries, the key words being ‘non-emergency’ ) I would take it in a heartbeat over the costly clusterfuck I deal with here in the United States. You’d have to be crazy to do otherwise.

My wife is Canadian, and I have dual citizenship. We’re here because of my work, and we’re not staying a minute past retirement. It’s not safe to be old and of modest means in this country.

Do you take stowaways? ….

Wow, and I thought it was the 2:37 character character assassination “Who is Michael Moore” that those bastards have up on the CNN website that got him so pissed off. Jeez, if you search Moore’s name on that site you’ll see hackery the likes of which would make Bill O’Reilly blush. Unbelievable. But gawd was it great to see him eat wolfie’s lunch on live TV. You can bet your ass that’s not on the Situation Room homepage!

Gupta stated that approx. 15 percent of French citizens purchase additional health services/insurance above and beyond the publicly funded health services. Gupta presents this factoid as if it is proof that the French public health system is not very good. Well, first, this statistic means that 85 percent of French people do not go outside the public health services. Second, it means that the 15 percent may be (a) very rich and can afford the best health care money can buy or (b) have very specific or unique health needs. Gupta never tells us what the numbers mean. Without that, the statistic is totally irrelevant to Moore’s movie and the U.S. lack of health system.

What is CNN/Gupta’s angle? Seriously. Can someone simply tell me why they are lying in this report? And I’m not talking about lying about Michael’s facts, but just simply LYING over what is in the movie? (Like Gupta’s little comment on people waiting in Canada’s waiting rooms in every scene, when one of those scenes Michael is asking them how long have they been waiting.)

Why did he even go ON that show? Gahhhhhh.

And for the love of god, what is Drudge’s problem with Moore? GRRRRRR.

Guten Nacth C&L folks !!

take care and call your local sen/cong/ppl.
its time for a damn change in the states where health care is the last thing on any of the canidates minds.

everyone cheered for obama getting 32/million dollars for his politcal war chest?????????
um,, folks,, wheres the cheering for the ppl sick with cancer that are approved for a home loan equity ?
they will never live to pay that off, hence,, forget the bankrupt laws,, as GWB and congress old and new,, wont turn that around anytime soon!!!!!!!!!!!!

god bless the folks in the USA!! NOw please take it to the streets!! picket,, march, etc. otherwise,, well i guess ill be having the same topic thread come 2008.

Regards,,

The Baker,

oh my regards to SAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hello old friend.

baby jesus only goes to the best doctors, the best
even baby jesus has to wait for hours, the better the doctor the longer the wait
baby jesus still asks, why won’t all the humans help each other to be healthy?

You don’t see bus loads of Canada’s seniors coming across the border to our country for medical treatment and drugs. Dr. Sanjaya forgot to mention this during his Michael Moore hit piece.

Why are people so braindead? Gupta is not some holy God just because he has a medical degree. Isn’t Bill Frist a doctor too? What is wierd is that Gupta made his CNN piece so silly. It was as if he felt every fact that Moore presented had to be challenged. It was as if CNN played a civil rights piece about MLK but had to set a tone of opposition, with interspliced David Duke ‘research’ and crap about the Bell Curve. The media is so afraid of the violent wingers that they try to report everything as if it is debatable: evolution, global warming, etc. Gupta is a scared little shill.

Douglas Watts @ 22:

The only “fact” Gupta could find Moore “fudged” on was a numerical error in capita spending on health care in Cuba ($229 vs. $25), which Gupta admitted was so minuscule in comparison to the U.S. per capita ($7,000) that it had no effect on Moore’s overall point. Therefore, it wasn’t a “fudge.”

This is the part that I remember from before I saw the film. I don’t know why I remember it, but when I saw the film, Moore didn’t claim that Cuba’s per capita spending was $25.00. I think he claimed $225.00.

Does anyone recall this part of the film?

How many people in the U.S. — who can afford it, that is — leave this country to go elsewhere for medical treatment? And what the hell does making a comparison of elective surgery have to do with anything?

The man did not support his own facts. He cherry-picked statistics to present a false rebuttal.

By the way, in the past when I’ve been able to scrape together the dollars to see a doctor, there has always been a waiting time, anywhere from 20 minutes to 3 hours. So he doesn’t need to lecture Americans on having to wait.

27
John Doheny
I hear ya there. i would take that system too over the one i have now. which is absolutely NOTHING. why? cause i can’t even afford the insurance. i have a private business and actually perchased my own health coverage at $151/month which was the absolute cheapest i could find and suprise it was inadequate considering $30 copay, only 80% of my hospital was covered, and not all the tests were covered, and $1000 deductible (my favorite). That was actually better than the next best company which was $200/month and only gave me 4 dr. visits per year before i had to pay a $500 deductible ontop of my monthly payments.
Health Care in the US is a joke. The private sector definately isn’t better on health care. at best you can do is get expensive insurance which is equivalant to purchasing a discount on your visits.

I wanted to point out some “fudging of the facts” in Gupta’s piece, it is subtle but goes to undermine his general point that health care in the U.S. is better than Moore lets on. Early on in the report he notes (paraphrasing here):

“The United States comes in at No. 37. The rankings are based on general health of the population, access, patient satisfaction and how the care’s paid for.”

Yet later on, he chastises Moore for not noting that:

Believe it or not, the United States does rank highest in the patient satisfaction category.

Doesn’t this somehow skew the numbers for the previously mentioned 37th place ranking? If patient satisfaction is a key indicator for health care, what would happen if we took that out of the rankings? If we were to hold Gupta to the same standards as Moore, he would certainly be called out on this.

Cuba’s per capita cost is $229 vs the US @ $7000 per capita? That’s 30 x Cuba’s per capita cost, and Cuba is only 2 slots down from us in the rankings? Dr. Sanjaya inadvertently makes Moore’s point on that one statistic alone!

wolf did a good job. in that moment. he kept his cool and kept the interview
intact. anyone on faux would have censored him.

lou dobbs calling him huga chavez … is a little jab with for the right wingers…..which they like to be in cahoots with.

38
Straight Shooter
yeah you are the first to mention how bad wait times are in the US medical system. but you are absolutely right. try getting an appointment for nonemergency you will be lucky to get it for that same week. as you mentioned, even with appointment you have to get their early or you won’t have an appointment and you still never see the dr. on time. always 15min+ wait past the time of your appointment. It’s even worse for emergency rooms. if you are short of bleeding to death. you have to wait hours in the waiting area. then if you are seen. they take you to another area where you have to wait just as long to actually see a dr. at best you might get to see a nurse before that time.

I lived in two European Countries and Gupta’s report is pure bullshit. I never had any significant waits for anything and the satisfaction is very high with the health care system.
And another important fact. The “higher taxes” thing is a red herring. Sure technically your taxes will go up but you won’t have the insurance premiums, copays and deductables so you will come out ahead. Screw these lying whores.

Moore should have grabbed Greed-head Gupta’s number one Hot Point and run with it: USA spends (Gupta’s number) $6,000+ per capita, Cuba just $280. Yet, USA’s and Cuba’s life expectancy are (Gupta’s words) “about the same.” When even the desperate lies of a big-time pharma-whore like Guptacorp indict the for-profit sickness industry, it’s looking bad for Daddy Warbucks and Bill Frist’s family’s hospital chain.

My own anecdote: got bill from hospital-run blood tests, says ins. co. won’t cover. I called ins co. and invoked “Sicko” information and names like my U.S. Senator and others who’ll soon be voting to change the USA’s horrible, predatory sickness perpetuation system. At the mention of the film, and my recounting of information contained in the film, the phone rep suddenly became very conciliatory and helpful, offered to “adjust” the billing codes so that the test’s cost would be completely covered.

Coincidence? Amazing miracle? All I can say it that it’s never happened before. In the past I’ve had to endure lengthy appeals/threats/doctor involvement before the ins. co. would relent and pay. But that was before the entire theater (in which I saw Sicko) virtually boiled over during the screening of the film, and similar scenes occurred elsewhere around the nation.

The pharma/medcorp bloodsuckers can feel the rumble of the peasants’ clogs as we thunder across the castle’s drawbridge, pitchforks in hand. They can smell the boiling tar and see the smoke from the rabble’s torches. Only one thing will save the for-profit sickness industry in the USA, now…..another 9-11-01. Wall Street needs a (more complete) suspension of the Bill Of Rights, a draft, and a nice, long WW III. It’s the only thing that’ll save the old regime from the long-overdue consequences of their serial crimes. The chickens, as Malcolm said, have come home to roost.

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Be sure to check out the version at MediaMatters.com. At the end of the video you’ll see Jack Catherty looking like a real turd, too.