Sen. Webb blasts Lieberman/Kyl Amendment: "This proposal is Dick Cheney's fondest pipe dream"
By John Amato Monday Sep 24, 2007 2:30pm
Sen. Webb went on the offensive today and denounced the Lieberman/Kyl amendment as warmongering and a big fat, wet kiss to the "William the Bloody" Kristol wing of the GOP---including the star of the Neocons: Dick Cheney. Lieberman is setting the stage with all his Iran amendments that have the sole purpose of bringing the US into war with Iran. This must be defeated and I implore the Democratic Party to vote this down. A big shout out to Jim Webb for standing up against this amendment. Call your Reps...(We have a "Contact Congress" box on the lower right hand column)
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Webb: We are about to vote on something that may fundamentally change the way that the United States views the Iranian military, and we haven't had one hearing. This is not the way to make foreign policy. It's not the way to declare war, although this cleverly worded sense of the Congress could be interpreted that way.
Those who regret their vote five years ago to authorize military action in Iraq should think hard before supporting this approach, because in my view, it has the same potential to do harm where many are seeking to do good. The constant turmoil that these sorts of proposals and actions are bringing to the region is counterproductive. They are regrettable substitute for a failure of diplomacy by this Administration.
I do not believe that any serious student of foreign policy could support this amendment as it now exists.
This proposal is Dick Cheney's fondest pipe dream. It's not a prescription for success. At best, it's a deliberate attempt to divert attention from a failed diplomatic policy. At worst, it could be read as a back door method of gaining congressional validation for action with one hearing or without serious debate.
TP has it as well....
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I wish I could have hope that it wouldn't happen and they would vote it down, but that kind of hope is just about gone from my heart.
Thanks a lot Connecticut!
Cheney's fondest pipe dream? I thought it was his fondest wet dream. I could be mistaken, though.
Boy, what a moonbat Webb is. He thinks he can use intellect and logic in a discourse with with senate Repubs. He thinks they'll set aside their Doctrine of Emotional Kneejerkism and actually listen to reason.
Where do we find these guys?
(/snark)
• Detox from Fox: Starve The Beast
Deport Lieberman!!!
Go Claire McCaskill (D-MO) too:
This vote is the start of war with Iran:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/25/142657/484
Does anyone know how this amendment (and the MoveOn.org amendment) get introduced into the Senate? Dems are in the majority and control all committee chairman seats, so they should control what does or doesn't (eventually) get introduced for votes on the Senate floor.
I can think of only two circumstances:
1) Liberman still is the Chair of the Homeland Security Committee. Is this his doing?
2) Reid is/continues to be a wuss, and for some reason I can't fathom, agrees to let these Amendments onto the Senate Floor for a vote. What, being a nice guy? Getting Repub compromises/promises down the road? Keeping Dem "powder dry?" What?
Anyone know the story on how these absurd amendments are even showing up on our radar screen?
Sen. Webb says that "At best, [the Lieberman/Kyl Amendment is] a deliberate attempt to divert attention from a failed diplomatic policy." You mean that there was a diplomatic policy?
Dear Connecticut,
Are you ashamed yet?
Sincerely,
America
Oh what a tangled Webb we weave...
ecotopian @ 4:
Depends on the type of pipe.
Habitat-Vic @ 9:
Because of the slim majority, Liebermans vote is a swing. So this scumbag, make believe who claims to be independent is actually just a tool of Cheney. We need a firm majority, 50 % wont do it, Then cheney can step in and be the tie-breaker. So we have to swing Republicans to our side.
He was brilliant. And right. Is it just me ? (from the TP link ) he speaks in the same fashion as Obama through out the first half of the clip.
I have this errie feeling that someday we'll be looking back a this speech as the one more people wished they had paid attention to. I wonder if California could do an off season trade with Virginia. We'll send them Diane Feinstein if they send us Jim Webb.
I hate Joe Lieberman.
How much is Lieberman worth? I'd like to buy him to promote my own agenda in the Middle East.
yet these phukkking moronic dems are not filibustering this, I bet dollars to donuts.
Fondest pipe dream?
Well maybe after his cut of the $8 billion disappeared into a
Swiss bank account.
The dems are more afraid of looking soft on terrorism than they are of doing what they damn well know is right. The repubs are afraid of not doing whatever the white house wants because they see that 30 percent that still support bush as important to their next election. Meanwhile, out country circles out of control as no one is thinking about what is best for the American people. Politics trumps intellect in this congress.
Bushhater,
I agree that Lieberman gets too much attention because he's a swing vote. He wouldn't have been made chair of Homeland Security committee if he wasn't.
But that doesn't answer how these amendments are getting onto the floor and/or how they are getting scheduled for votes. Cheney is the tiebreaker vote, but he doesn't have any powers relative to introducing bills/amendments or scheduling votes. Those things are controlled by the Senate Majority Leader and the committee chairs (also Dem other than Lieberman).
Starting in 2002, the Senate Rules were rewritten to make it even harder for the minority party to get rules and amendments onto the floor for a vote. That was back when Repubs figured they were the "permanent majority." Unless there is some bypass mechanism for appropriations bill (no cloture votes, for example), then this is another example of Reid being Mr. Nice Guy. Like I need another reason to be let down by Congressional Dems.
The US been using a terrorist organization (accd to our State Dept as it has killed US soldiers and civilians in the past) that we have been harboring inside Iraq to commit terrorist attacks inside Iran for years now.
Just a few of the attacks inside Iran committed by the MEK:
Eight killed in Iran bomb attacks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4642170.stm
Bomb blasts hit Iran oil cities
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4754446.stm
Explosion kills 18 elite Rev. Guards of Iran
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/14/ap/world/mainD8N9D3600.shtml
Police, Insurgents Clash After Iran Bomb
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/17/ap/world/mainD8NB523G0.shtml
And so on.
When the present supply as of high school students comes of age and are sent off to die in the eternal neocon Middle East War...remember who it was that sentenced your children to death, remember who it was who started the conflagration that has consumed our laws, our way of life, our dreams and our country, remember who it was that shat on your love of America and being an American, remember who it was that profited from your misery.
I wish Webb had been tough and/or brave enough to vote against the MoveOn resolution which basically condemned free speech.
Military Fatalities: By Time Period News Current Time in Baghdad: 12:07:04 AM
Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
6 714 40 6 760 3.22 236
5 933 32 20 985 2.39 412
4 715 13 18 746 2.35 318
3 580 25 27 632 2.93 216
2 718 27 59 804 1.9 424
1 140 33 0 173 4.02 43
Total 3800 170 130 4100 2.49 1649
The DEATH TOLL: another milestone reached!
Why don't the republicans just a light a match to the constitution, they are eventually destroying it (what is left of it) anyway. There a few democrats with the spines to stop them. Just get it over with and stop this painful journey watching it happen. E
BaScOmBe @ 26:
Just commas on history. Right, Mr. President?
enor @ 27:
Get your passport now, avoid the end of year rush.
Duel citizenship my ass.That's how we got here
Ooo ooo ooo...don't tell me...let me guess...they'll "debate" this amendment for a few days, make a few meaningless changes and the it'll pass with a solid majority (about 70 votes.)
But don't worry, because once the Democrats have the House, 60 senators, the presidency, the majority of governorships, the majority of federal, state and local judges, high school principals, city alderman, public library administrators and dog catchers, THEN they'll start doing the right thing.
Until then, they have to bide their time.
Unless, of course, some Republican standing on a shoe box on Main Street calls them chicken, in which case they'll HAVE to do whatever he wants.
Because, you know, can't look soft on terror.
Liberal AND Proud @ 28:
Only the deaths on the combat field are counted. You can probably triple that number if you include the soldiers who died on the way to Germany, in Germany or in the stateside hospitals. If they are evacuated with a heartbeat it doesn't add to the already obscene number of deaths. Support the troops - bring them home NOW!
Huzzah for Senator Webb ......!!
If Lieberman the Zionist wants to start another pre-emptive war , let him
enlist in the Israel Army and lead the first charge.
Nevada Bob
ecotopian @ 4:
I swear I thought Jim just barely caught himself there. He badly wanted to say 'wet dream'. The Marine in him was battling the senator in him. "Say it! No! Say it! NO. SAY WET DREAM DAMNIT! I will NOT SIR! GOOD DAY!"
He should save it for his buddy Cornyn.
Senator Webb,
Why the fuck weren't you this critical in your thinking and judgment when you voted to give these same neocons everything they wanted as regards FISA? You've got a lot of work to do if you hope to redeem yourself. You're statements here are good, but you've got a long row to hoe.
Carmikl @ 16:
No shit! They can have Grandma Useless and we'd get an actual Senator! I say we drop Lieberman on Iran and see if we can take out a port-o-potty with his useless corpse.
pissed off patricia @ 1:
I called my Senator, Feinstein, anyway, so she'll know in advance I won't approve of her voting for it.
... After which the Democrat Congress promptly fell all over itself to give the president the authority he asked for ....
If we don't have enough votes to defeat it, filibuster it! The Repugs don't have any problem doing it.
I could post 30 more links just like I did above to where the US has by proxy been committing terrorist attacks inside Iran, especially targetting their Revolutionary Guard, but I already ate up enough bandwidth here making that point.
I will mention though that back in Dec when Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann wrote an op-ed for the NYT the Whitehouse forced them to redact all mentions of the US's using the MEK terrorist group against Iran from it, so they published an accompanying piece "What We Wanted to Tell You About Iran" where they provided links to previously reported sources for all of the redacted info.
Rawstory put their clues all together here: The redacted Iran op-ed revealed
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/The_redacted_Iran_oped_revealed_1222.html
So the neocons think it's just fine to commit terrorist attacks against Iran but if they go so far as to supply any weaponry by proxy to attack back they are the terror org. They've been trying to provoke another war with Iran for years.
Iran's revolutionary Guard isn't a terrorist group and Iran isn't our enemy. Our Whitehouse is.
Bush is Mad!
Invoke the 25th Amendment
http://elandslide.org/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=madgeorge
I didn't even know we had this. I've been wondering why there wasn't a provision to get rid of an insane president and lo and behold we do.
wait lets get this straight Lieberman wants to declare an foreign army a terrerost organization. is he for real ? wake up america the real terrerist is Lieberman.
Song for Dick Cheney "Hey Dick Any More Brilliant Ideas?" on youtube and also here Call your senator and stop this resolution!
lieberman is not an American, he is a zionist working for israel. he deceived his state into electing him and he should be removed as an enemy combattant.
if this congress with a democratic majority gives in to go to war with iran than it's time the American public take back our government. it's mandated in the constitution that we do not let any tyrannical government take our government from us. the gop have pushed about as far as we are going to take it. it they want another "french style" revolution, then we are ready. i am not willing to have any more of my constitutional rights sabbotaged by a fucking bastard acting as president. bush is a moron and delusional.
Everyone should all make a sign with the words ‘WHEN INJUSTICE BECOMES LAW, RESISTANCE BECOMES DUTY’
[...] Posted on Tuesday 25 September 2007 watch this or this or read this, then get on the phone and lobby against the Kyl-Lieberman Plan to bomb Iran… [3] that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and [stop] the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies; [4] to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph [3] with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies. Says Senator Webb on the floor of the Senate: Sen. Webb blasts Lieberman/Kyl Amendment: “This proposal is Dick Cheney’s fondest pipe d... [...]
Can we fire Harry Reid and put Webb in charge of the Senate Democrats?
I don't agree with him on many things, and was profoundly disappointed in his vote to condemn the MoveOn ad, but he has a spine and a sharp tongue, and he's not afraid to use both.
Having him in charge of the Senate would go a long way towards dispelling the impression of Democrats as pussies.
To the person who is suggesting the use of the 25th amendment...you do realize that they are calling for Dick Cheney to replace the President? Right? You understand that, don't you?
Our...Dick...Cheney...?
The one who really runs this criminal empire craving madhouse of a White House. is the same ...Dick...Cheney.
And you want us to sign on to use the 25th amendment to put Cheney in charge, officially.
Yeah. Ok. Thanks for the suggestion. We'll get back to you.
bizona @ 25:
I expect that Webb's (and his family's) military background played a role in his vote.
What troubles me about Webb isn't his clear mind, his guts or his government and political experience - no what troubles me is that he isn't a contender for the presidency. We are going to jump over him and select a lesser - whoever that might be.
Lieberman and Cheney aside, do most wingnuts really think starting a war with Iran is smart move at this particular time? We are losing a war in one country, struggling to hold ground in another and these guys want to start yet another one right next door to the first two?
Will the sane militants please stand up?
Can this vote pass with the GOP votes and the Blue Dog votes alone? Also, if it does pass, is there a procedure for Reid to get the whole Defense Authorization Act tabled?
Is anyone else out there rooting for Webb to run for president?
Go,Senator at last someone tostand up against LIE-berman, I wish more would.
No big surprise here. Joe Lieberman I-Connecticut, the "I" standing for Israeli, practically begged General Petraeus to attack Iran. And now Democrats are going to give him and his neoconservative pals a big boost.
Whoever said that failure in Iraq would stop Bush and his neocon handlers from doing Iran underestimated just how much spine some Democratic senators lack. They are far too afraid of being painted as unpatriotic to actually be patriotic and stand in unison against giving Bush and Cheney their approval, albeit "non-binding" (bet Bush and Cheney won't see it that way), to attack Iran.
Bush is lampooned, and rightly so, for his "can't get fooled again" gaffe, but that's exactly what is going to happen to the Democrats, when they vote for the Lieberman Amendment. Expecting otherwise would, according to Einstein, be the definition of insanity. But go ahead Democrats; do it again, and then start wringing your hands over it.
OH HELL!! ANOTHER SENSE OF THE CONGRESS PIECE OF CRAP LEGISLATION!!!! You know that's truly an oxymoron.... sense and congress in the same phrase, sentence, or hemisphere. That's not even funny anymore. The majority has no spine, and the minority has no conscious or heart. We're not in Kansas anymore Toto.....
If that passes it'll be 2 weeks and we'll start bombing.
will there be another freak show by cornyn who put up a bill condemning webb for attacking the hero dick cheney, lieberman and kyl?
Lieberman/Kyl amendment? What, no real Democrat would sign on to this thing?
You're not one of us Joe. The Democratic voters of Connecticut kicked your ass to the curb. You can't undermine the Democratic Party from with anymore. Good try though.
Call me crazy, but Senator Lieberman (I-ISRAEL) doesn't seem like he's championing the best interests of the citizens of Connecticut. I'm beginning to suspect that he might have another agenda. I wonder what it could be?
...from "within" anymore I meant to type.
the cons won't spend a dime on any program that doesn't involve bombing Arabs and Persians and lassoing Mexicans
I'll never trust this guy again on any issue. He voted in favor of condemning the MoveON ad. And to think, I donated to his campaign, Yuck.
Remind me again how those of us who never voted for Lieberman were such fools?
Oh, right, we were so STUPID to vote our consciences instead of blindly supporting whatever traitorous wretch the D party offered up.
How fucking silly of me.
I seem to remember a lot of big words of praise from the D lectern about Lieberman...what a great leader he is, what a hero, what bold vision he has for the future of our party and our country!
Any LIBERALS who don't vote for him are just fooling themselves!
Lieberman in '08! Iran IS our Iraq exit strategy!
Onward Blue Dog sooooldiers...marching as to WAAAR!
Standards: Sometimes sticking by them pays off.
Habitat-Vic @ 22:
You people are so clueless. Always scratching your heads and acting perplexed over these questions when the answers are literally right in front of your face screaming at you.
"I can't think of a policy organization in the country as well-organized and respected [as AIPAC]."
--Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, AIPAC flunky and one of the speakers along with Dick Cheney at their AIPAC 2007
This is the same "respected" organization who also hosted religious lunatic Pastor John "bomb Iran and bring on the End Times right now" Hagee as one of the speakers at their AIPAC 2007 policy conference. His message of hate, fear, ignorance, division and endless war received multiple standing ovations.
If there is one thing that both wings of the war/corporate party can be counted on for, it is unquestioning support, without any public debate, for whatever the Israel Lobby wants. AIPAC is only the most prominent and powerful of the hundreds of organizations, PACs, think tanks, publications, and media pundits that make up the Israel Lobby. When Fortune asked members of Congress and their staffs in 1997 to list the most powerful lobbies in Washington, AIPAC came in second behind AARP. A National Journal study in March 2005 placed AIPAC in second place (tied with AARP) in Washington's "muscle rankings."
"It's almost politically suicidal...for a member of the Congress who wants to seek reelection to take any stand that might be interpreted as anti-policy of the [neo] conservative Israeli government."
--Jimmy Carter, Feb. 2007
"You can't have an Israel policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here."
--Senator Ernest Hollings (D-SC), as he was leaving office in 2004
"Without question the most effective lobby in Congress."
--Former Congressman Mervyn Dymally (D-CA)
"There's no lobby group that matches it...They're in a class by themselves."
--Former chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Lee Hamilton, who served in Congress for thirty-four years.
"If you are a candidate and you get the pro-Israel label from AIPAC, the money will start coming in from contributors all over the country."
--Steven Weiss, Center for Responsive Politics
[...] a defense bill, that states…well, just go read it, why don’t you. then hop on over to C&L to see the video of Sen. Webb discussing the Lieberman/Kyl amendment. And while we’re mulling all this over, let’s [...]
Is this the Jim Webb who talked tough about W and then voted w/ him on FISA? Is this the same Jim Webb who voted for the MoveOn censure? Some of you people are too easy, its like you WANT to get fooled again. Jim Webb = Bush Dog Democrat. I'm guessing when the WH calls Webb over and shows him some trumped up 'intelligence' he'll roll over...it's what he does.
ecotopian @ 4:
The good Senator from Virginia could hardly call it that or any coverage of his statement (assuming there will be any other than KO or Comedy Central) would be all about the appropriateness of the term "wet dream". There is no doubt that you are correct though. This is the Dick's wet dream, all right!
I just can't believe all you people who took the bait from the Republicans on the assine Moveon.org sense of the Senate bill.
Meaningless stupid theatre that O'reilly and Hannity can distract the base with, and you folks want to throw Democrats under the bus for this idiotic meaningless peice of theatre?
WHO GIVES A RATS-ASS HOW ANYONE VOTED ON IT! It was a fricking joke!
No wonder the Republicans win, TIME after TIME, cause people keep chomping at the bait, getting distracted, eating our own.
The Republics KNOW This, if they can paint us a loonies who hate the military, they can continue to win in Red and Purple states.
Webb Won IN A BLAZING RED STATE and BTW took out a Republic Candidate, who, till he shot himself in the foot, was a BETTER candidate then those clowns out there now.
Thanks GOD for Jim Webb, he's a populist WITH a military background, and if we had 10 MORE just like him, we could get rid of some other Red State Corporatist Scum Buckets in the Senate....
> and you folks want to throw Democrats under the bus for this idiotic meaningless peice of theatre?
No. The Democrats are jumping under the bus. I'm just not in much of a mood to beg them not to.
JasonS @ 68:
Yeah, but WHO is calling for primary challengers against them, making a big deal out of this? Not the Republics?
Randy Rhodes on Air America was just INUNDATED with Calls, and all folks wanted to talk about was "how dare Democrats vote against Moveon!
God, I am just TIRED of knee jerking every time the Republics yank our chain?
They have NOTHING LEFT, except a death-grip on power they can see slipping away, and a madman in the WH, whom they are all boat anchored to?
All they got left IS distraction, and praying Rudy or Fred or Mitt is going to save their bacon!
As far as I can tell, MoveON didn't did give a rats-ass about the sense of the senate bill, they fired back at Rudy's little stunt.
I heard someone compare Patrick Leahy to FRICKING JOE LIEBERMAN the other day, just cause he voted for this dumb ass sense of the senate...
Which reminded me a lot of the "Freedom Fries" bill.....
I laughed at it, cause that's ALL the Republics got left, to complain about a one page add in the NY Times....
Webb is a totally inconsistent idiot. Earlier this summer he (along with an overwhelming majority of the senate including the lefties' darling Feingold) voted for a Lieberman ammendment condemning Iran for engaging in killing our troops in Iraq. He totally mischaracterizes the Kyle-Lieberman ammendment which puts Iran on notice that our patience is limited. It in fact offers Iran a graceful way out of military confrontation. Voting against this ammendment would only encourage Iran to escalate its provocations and increase the likelyhood of all-out nuclear war against Iran.
I guess one thing Mr. Lieberman has not considered that if we attack Iran, very soon after that, Israel, as we know it, will cease to exist on the face of the Earth.
For those of you, like me, unfamiliar with this ammendment, from "A Tiny Revolution" (blog):
September 21, 2007
Threatening Lieberman-Kyl Amendment On Iran
Amazingly, no one anywhere in the US media seems to have noticed that yesterday Jon Kyl (Arizona) and Joe Lieberman filed an extremely threatening amendment on Iran to the FY 2008 Defense Authorization bill. I guess all their time was taken up with the earth-shakingly important issue of newspaper ads.
It's a "Sense of the Senate" resolution, which means it has no legal force, but as the Congressional Research Service will tell you, "foreign governments pay close attention to [such resolutions] as evidence of shifts in U.S. foreign policy priorities." If you want you can read it yourself (.doc), but here are the most important paragraphs:
(3) that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and roll back the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies;
(4) to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph (3) with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies.
If something like this passes both the House and Senate, I think Bush could legitimately argue that between it, the War Powers Act and the 2001 and 2002 Authorizations to Use Military Force, he has all the authority he needs to attack Iran.
As someone reminded me, above, if Iraq is a comma, what will Iran be? An exclamation point?
> God, I am just TIRED of knee jerking every time the Republics yank our chain?
And I'm sick of watching the Democrats dance every time the chain is yanked. The thing to do is to YANK BACK, not just sit there and pretend it doesn't mean anything to be bullied.
Of course the Republicans are playing games, but the Democrats KEEP LETTING THEM!!!
What the Republicans are afraid of, really afraid of, is that the Democrats will band together, stand up for what's right and actually lead.
And every time the Democrats capitulate on these little "meaningless" issues, they reassure the Republicans that they have nothing whatsoever to fear.
I'm done voting for the party that inspires no Republican fear.
>I heard someone compare Patrick Leahy to FRICKING JOE LIEBERMAN the other day, just cause he voted for this dumb ass sense of the senate…
Yeah, there's no comparison: Leahy was never nominated to the vice presidency by the Democratic Party.
> I guess one thing Mr. Lieberman has not considered that if we attack Iran, very soon after that, Israel, as we know it, will cease to exist on the face of the Earth.
Oh, bullshit.
Iran and the Arab nations in the Middle East have no interest whatsoever in eliminating Israel.
Why would they want to trade in a perennial issue that keeps them popular with their own people in exchange for a massive Palestinian refugee crisis?
Then again, Bush thought that toppling Saddam would cause democracy to spontaneously flower across the Middle East, so I guess there's no accounting for stupidity.
JasonS @ 74:
Ahmadinejad wants Israel gone.
> Ahmadinejad wants Israel gone.
I don't buy it. Israel is too convenient a target for him. He doesn't want Israel gone any more than Rush and Coultergeist want "liberals" gone. Israel is the Great Excuse(tm)...and no addict likes giving up their excuse.
With Israel in place, he can rattle his saber and huff and puff and pretend to care about the Palestinians.
If the Israel is destroyed and the Palestinians actually RUN things in Israel...or Palestine...then suddenly he and all the rest of the Muslim nations will have to deal with them. That's a nightmare, and they know it.
So, sure, his *rhetoric* will be very anti-Israeli and he may even huff and puff about destroying them, but it's empty, hollow talk.
Good for Jim Webb! I hope he will keep this issue front and center. He is right. Rattling sabres without any hearings and discussion, and without diplomatic effort is unconscionable. It's exactly what Bush/Cheney want and it belongs to Lieberman and Kyl, a great twosome! Deliver us from their evil.
Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus, and there is also a Democrat who gets it that the only way to win this fight is to show up for it.
If only Pelosi, Reid, H. Clinton, Kerry, Daschle (back when that softy had a chance to make a difference), and a whole slew of others understood this. They were probably too busy preparing preparing their minor objections to preface their 'yea' votes for slashing civil liberties and future non-binding strategies to notice.
I despise the politics of Joe Leiberman, but I wonder why there is so little discussion of how close he came to being VP with our new HERO Al Gore? Did Gore ever explore the mind of his choice to replace him in the event he could not fullfill his term? It would be interesting to revisit some of the campaign comments Leiberman made when running for VP. There must be ample ammunition there to point out his own hypocrisy. I just cannot trust any of these politicians. As somebody once said somewhere, it would be better if they just wore blazers with the corporate logos of their sponsors. At least we could choose from companies that gave us some better service.
I know for a fact that Joe Lieberman is a draft-dodging chickenshit chickenhawk who not only refused to serve in the military himself, but has kept his children and grandchildren out of harm's way, too. I don't know about Jon Kyl, but I assume he's a chickenshit chickenhawk like Joe Lieberman and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and the rest of the Rethuglicans. All of these people are yellow-bellied cowards who want to send other people's children to die in their wars for oil and Israel and imperialism. None of this has anything to do with "freedom" or democracy". It's called "money for the already rich". These people are blood-sucking vampires on our republic.
Webb 2008.
radlib1 @ 81:
That would be correct.