Countdown: AT&T Whistleblower Speaks Out Against Immunity For Telcoms
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Nov 07, 2007 11:46am
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If you have any reservations about Congress granting immunity to telecommunications companies like AT&T for illegally spying on Americans, this segment from last night's Countdown should leave little room for doubt -- they have, and continue to betray us and should be held accountable for their crimes.
Likening himself to a character from Orwell's 1984, retired AT&T technician and whistle blower, Mark Klein, tells Keith Olbermann about his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee during which he pleaded with them not to grant immunity to the telcom companies. Klein contends that his former employer is lying to the American people and that they were not only spying on overseas communications, but virtually ALL domestic internet and phone traffic -- and they have been doing it for years.
Olbermann: "In talking to Congress today what did you hear? Did you get the sense that anybody is ready to go after not just the telecom execs, but the government officials who ordered this?"
Klein: "I couldn't tell, I'm not a politician and they play their cards close to the vest. All I can do is emphasize again, that they're copying everything, this is a violation of the Constitution, it's domestic traffic, it's phone calls as well as e-mail and something should be done to stop it and Congress should not kill the judicial process."
Update: In yesterday's New York Times, Senator Russ Feingold points out the obvious: "Telecom companies that cooperate with a government wiretap request are already immune from lawsuits, as long as they get a court order or a certification from the attorney general that the wiretap follows all applicable statutes."
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it's okay if you don't do anything wrong?
Klein's revelations warrant review in re impeachment. However, the Speaker appears to be in the way. One remedy, to ensure review of these allegations against the NSA is to remove the Speaker. Here is a State proclamation calling for removal of Pelosi, clearing the way so these allegations against the NSA can be raised during an impeachment.
Freakaloin @ 1:
But who gets to decide what's wrong?
In a free society, the government must be free to listen your phone calls. Why does this man hate freedom?
"it’s okay if you don’t do anything wrong?"
so then it is not ok because the administration IS doing something wrong.
and i wonder how many tax payer dollars are being spent to copy and watch everything. not just suspect information, but everything.
Smoke signals, baby! Old tech is new again!
Congress hasn't been listening to people like Mark Klein. Or US, the American People who elected their asses.
There needs to be about 520 pink slips that should be given out in 2008 - as in vote the bastards out. On both sides of the aisle.
Feingold, Frank, Conyers, Waters, Lee, Woolsey, Kucinich, Boxer, Bobby Scott, Webb, Moran, and other progressives you can name, which should add up to the remaining sixteen who need to be re-elected.
This program was also part of AT&T's SPECIAL PLAN: REACH OUT AND BUST SOMEONE
Remember: Quest did not break the law the way AT&T and Verizon willingly and knowingly did, and the Quest CEO went to jail for it.
Also, of the wireless/cellular carriers, T-Mobile did not divulge call records, unlike AT&T and Verizon...probably because T-Mobile German owned, and the Germans know full well what evil a government is capable of doing.
I urge people to do what they can to boycott the offenders. And make no mistake, these companies have the best attorneys in the world, and they knew they were breaking the law.
OT, but does anyone think Chimp is throwing his poop around today and crying?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/08/congress.water/index.html
Man, I hope so...
So is it OK for me to be privy to White House communications? Dick Cheney's voice on one end and the nibbling of Fig Newtons on the other?
The Democrats will cave like they always do......
Here's some classic Carlin set to a powerful video montage.
"...americans continue to elect these rich cocksuckers that don't give a Fuck about them..."
Good luck on the mo better front......
This is just a modest, decent person with a conscience, and yet there are so few of them. He's part of what is probably a very small minority in our country anymore.
See if this sounds familiar ...
1. Klein can't comment on the program because he's not briefed into the program.
2. If we revealed the details about our surveillance program, it would give things away to the enemy.
Can you imagine coming into the Oval Office in 09 and finding out that there are no capital reserves left, the nation is $14 trillion in debt, all of the capital marketplaces are shaky as hell, and the nation is bleeding red ink at the rate of one billion dollars a day?
If you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't worry about all of your business calls being recorded and stored in the often hacked ChoicePoint server room..
Thanks to Bush and Cheney, the terrorists have won. America isn't American anymore.
I sure hope they don't try and take away this guy's pension.
Freakaloin @ 1:
This issue is well beyond if anyones has done anything wrong, there're many more underlying illegal and totalitarian schemes going on and you can count on it.
As this man says, this has been going on for years, so for years these criminals have been using, and will continue to, use information from this illegal wiretapping against their political enemies and a whole lot more. We have only begun to find out what these tyrants have been up to, it will be years until we know most of their crimes, we may never know, these scumbags are secretive, treasonous bastards and can't find the brake pedal.
Talcott @ 12:
That was an awesome video clip! George Carlin will always be the man. I'd like to know when that monologue was recorded; it's sounds recent.
liberalista @ 17:
Since they exert such influence in the American media, they can spin it and make a blowjob sound more injurious to the American people than multiple billion dollar republican fraud schemes.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
And the Chinese are getting ready to foreclose on this country.
It is a mystery that they can do this with no consequences
I called my congressman to remove Nancy Pelosi, and I think even if she was removed for impeding the impeachment process, it would be a good thing to remove her for future involvement of stifling and conceding with corporates interest instead of giving us a new direction. It was disturbing to see her support a bill without regard to the discrimination in employment for gays, and yet her home states have the largest gay community in the nation. If she fail to represent her home state, what chance in hell will she support the nation?
Time to wipe out the big club that you and I don't belong to.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Sounds like what they tried with Clinton, only this time they went all out.
This guy was on NPR. He explained how AT&T tapped the internet communications of ALL its customers.
In the same report, they quote John Kyl defending immunity for the telcoms because .... A) they were just doing their "patriotic duty" and B) we need to be able to conduct "intelligence collection abroad."
If nothing else, can we at least get the wingnuts to admit that the scope of the surveillance is far greater than the Bush admin has told us -- that in fact there are no limits at all?
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Bush answer was to go shopping! Christmas is around the corner, and I am pondering in making all my gifts instead of shopping. I haven't bought much of anything and been in the habit to not buy anything other than essential. I predict this Christmas season will be much different. If you think about corporate control of our country, and all the gift you buy that support them, and the conscience makes you reconsider your buying decision.
Symes @ 25:
I thought Clinton had a surplus when he ended his office?
Wonder if Alberto Gonzalez recalls any of this?
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Not only that, our ports, shipping routes, and infrastructure are horribly underprotected, that there's a pile of reports from the CIA clearly identifying a significant threat from al-Qaeda in Pakistan/Afghanistan and failing to confirm any active or significant weapons program in Iran.
Oh, and we have kids dying in droves because of a lack of health coverage.
paranoia @ 28:
Don't be obtuse.
He had record deficits when and a trashed economy when he came in to office, Reaganomics at it's best.
liberalista @ 17:
Cheney & Bush et al ARE The Terrorists!!!
paranoia @ 27:
liberalista @ 33:
paranoia @ 27:
Me too. I've also been thinking of eBay as well, you know, recirculate the money to the people who need it.
I won't be giving my cash to the corporations though, and it'll be a cold day in hell before my child gets another Chinese manufactured toy.
I'm beginning to think that the enemy is the American people.
I'm just about ready to drop my phone service and see if I can get by with making my calls using two dixie cups and a string.
EnricoFermi @ 36:
Well, the enemy absolutely is the American people from a population control point of view. The Bilderberg Group's prediction of $200 per barrel of oil by the end 0f 2009 is an attempt to obliterate the middle class (their $100 prediction by the end of 2007 is coincidentally enough coming true - take a look at who's on the board of directors). Population control. Lack of immigration law enforcement = helping to drive down middle class wages and obliterate the middle class this way. Controlling guns so that criminals have access to them but not the law and Constitution abiding citizen who might think about defending his or her family in a high crime area. Population control.
Welcome to the police state boys and girls. It's no full blown, but we're at the beginning of a closet dictatorship and fascism might be here to stay if we can't rally behind a third party candidate and put a stop to this ridiculous closed two party system.
See the movie "The Lives of Others" and prepare for your future.
Ive Seen It In Action.
i was having problems with my att sbc yahoo ameritech dsl... Chicago. Check this out!
When I would visit webpages I would get a message that I was 'overloading the server'
I uploaded some photos to yahoo photo- and there were two of every photo in yahoo photos.
So I called sbc and told them I was having trouble with my line...
They put me on to a tech whom i told about getting overload errors everywhere.
He phisically went and pulled my line. He asked me to powercycle my modem,
so It would come up looking for a signal but find none.
It found one anyway. I got to google. He said "thats impossible, im looking at your line right now and it isnt on"
I said "oh, its on... ask me to google something"
"This is very odd" said he.
I realized exactly what had happened.
the 'second line' was also going through instead of stopping at the storage.
have a nice day.
I didnt ask him If i could talk to the people we weren't allowed to mention so as to fix the problem.
This happened over a year and a half ago.
fuck at&t for playing Bush's stasi games
Just read that Arlen Specter is offering a "compromise," whereby telecoms will not be prosecuted for criminal acts committed at the behest of the Bush administration, because telecoms will not be listed as the defendants, the "government" will be.
Gee, and the "government" would never, ever claim "executive privilege" or "states secrets" in an attempt to withhold evidence, to try to shut down the trial, would they?
Obviously, the perversion and subversion of our democracy by the Fascist Republicans continues unabated.
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 3:
Pffft....the "decider" that's who!
1. Unconstitutional:
It is unconstitutional for Congress to write laws affecting ongoing litigation. This is an illegal assertion of Judicial power by the Legislature.
What you can do: Contact NJ, ME, MO, VT Attorney Generals to encourage them to continue litigation against telecoms (for violating state privacy statutes) despite any Congressional immunity legislation.
2. Untimely: Foreseeably-Needed Legal Tools Not Created 2001
There were lawful methods to insulate the telecoms: Indemnification could have been used. It was not. Patriot Act was secretly drafted, but failed to include this option. (No merit to Rockefeller's assertions.)
Anyone surprised by your president? George-Serial-Liar-Bush.
http://www.toppun.com/ProductImages/anti-Bush/funny_anti_bush_pictures/I...
First off, That room is just plain shitty looking. Does it double as a janitors room?
Second, Verizon and the rest all have these "secret" rooms.
EnricoFermi @ 36:
Only as long as we allow our fears to overpower our principles.
3 Yellow Elephant Safari Says: Freakaloin @ 1:
it’s okay if you don’t do anything wrong?
But who gets to decide what’s wrong?
Obviously, THE DECEIDER. :(
IgnoranceIsNotBliss @ 18:
Aren't there still SOME laws in your country???? Wouldn't that be kind of illegal?
Well who'd have thought it possible........Congress discusses immunity and low and behold there's a terror alert about AQ attacking malls
nigel @ 50:
I knew it. As soon as they postponed the discussion this morning, the bs would start. This will be an eventful week, folks...
1 Freakaloin Says: it’s okay if you don’t do anything wrong?
No it isn't. It is illegal. The end.
29 lucid fiction Says: Wonder if Alberto Gonzalez recalls any of this?
"I can't recall" ;)
al burt-oh Gonz
nigel @ 50:
What's gonna really be scary is when "they start attacking the malls" (big time) in November 2008 (or maybe in late October?).
liberalNmoderation @ 43:
bill w @ 48:
Thaaaaat's it I'm suing!!! ;)
gene214 @ 20:
good video.
Hillary meets with Rupert Murdoch in private while her husband rides around in golf carts with George H W Bush. They're all in it together.
I'm surprised that it hasn't sunk in that business calls are being recorded also.
And those calls are likely being listened to, by private contractors.
Common theme between FISA-Geneva violations: President asserted he was above the law, not subject to any judicial review. His aim with telecom immunity is to get Congress to buy into this fiction: That Congress and the President share joint power to ignore the legal system, FISA, and Geneva. They do not.
Congress and the President do not have any judicial power: They cannot agree to any immunity which -- after the fact -- exercises judicial power in re ongoing litigation.
Truth-tellers such as Mark Klein should be applauded as heroes, not subjected to continual harassment from AT&T.
I watched V for Vendetta last night (again) and then I read and watch THIS....
This guy should be considered a hero and everyone should know his name, except...
1. He's never kissed Madonna onstage
2. He's never flashed his privates while getting into a limo.
3. He's never been to rehab
4. He's never had babies with a late-night punchline
5. He's never gone over the edge and shaved his head bald
The mainstream media sez: Not interested. Next.
I applaud Mr. Klein for stepping up & saying 'Hell No, This is wrong.' I salute you Mr. Klein and Olbermann for putting him on his show.
add Feingold to the pissants Pelosi and Co. fuck them, they're in bed with BushCo where is a grassy knoll when you need one??????
I really thank this brave man for standing up against this bull shit, but I worry about this legislation because again Senator Feinstein is on this board folks and this bitch is as filthy and disgusting as Bush and the republicans.
We should fight this with everything in us and beyond if they pull any dirty tricks we know that they will to get these companies out of owning up.
To be continued
Strictly on practicality, haven't we been here before with Total Information Awareness?
That's a miniscule amount of genuinely useful leads buried amidst a gargantuan amount of data.
To even begin digging through this cacophany, the government would have to develop a a terrorist profile to be programmed into the telcoms' data mining software. Should the nature of terrorism remain constant, then perhaps it could suss out its worth in actionable intelligence. But terrorists are adaptable creatures, and it wouldn't take long for them to figure out what gets flagged and what tactics to avoid in the future.
It's the universal investment literature caveat, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."
Now, can someone explain how AT&T is aiding national security?
Impeach Bush and Cheney. send them to prison. Prosecute whoever in the NSA has participated in these illegal acts and send them to prison for a long, long time. this is our government, not theirs. They are hired help. not lords. Far as I'm concerned, everyone in the telecoms who authorized these crimes needs to spend the rest of their lives in prison. All of you Congress-critters who read C&L need to clearly get the idea that you'd better not cave on this issue.
Impeach Bush and cheney, send them to maximum security prison and throw away the key. They are a threat to the entire population of the planet. Prosecuteand convict all those criminals in the NSA who have violated America with such wanton illegality. Lock them up for a long, long time. AT&T needs to be shut down and put out of business. It's entire senior management needs to be put in prison for the rest of their lives. they have perpetrated an intolerable crime against the people of this country and performed an unforgivable betrayal of customer trust. They no longer deserve to exist as a business entity.
To some commentors above, I don't think Feingold is siding with the telecoms. He was pointing out the irony that if the telecoms had obeyed the law and required specific court ordered warrants on an individual case-by-case basis, they would have been immune from lawsuit and prosecution. If you have a warrant in hand you are covered for that warrant. they broke the law, the betrayed an inherent, implied contract of trust, they are guilty as they can be and can be sued. I hope they are bank rupted by the suits as a lesson for all times to any other corporate boards who think that they are the government and are above the law or are the law.
If any Congress -critters are reading these posts, you guys seriously need to understand that you had better not cave on this issue. You are just temporary hired help and you can be replaced by the push of a button.
The statement below, an oft repeated sentiment by ignorant governmental apologists who have not studied history and are content to live in a completely fabricated and controlled sheeple society which is transitioning into a fascist state.
Freakaloin @ 1:
"In a free society, the government must be free to listen your phone calls. Why does this man hate freedom?"
Why do YOU hate freedom? Either you're being sarcastic, or you're trying to push your twisted agendas on everyone else. You can give up your freedoms if you wish, for if you do, you deserve none of them. I will never give up my freedoms, they will have to be pried from my cold, dead hands.
ProlefeedTV @ 4:
What kind of ignorant, backwards, naive thinking is that? In a free Society we should not have to worry about our government controlling all aspects of our lives..All Civil liberties are being taken from us and some of you people are just in bliss - with Ignorance as your company. Wake Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Weaseldog @ 16:
Yes, you should worry.
Where does the loss of civil liberties end? I already feel that I have no right to expect privacy in my own home.
The problem with the government having this is that is governments aren't always (usually aren't) benevolent, and the day you wind up on the radar screen for whatever reason, all that the govt needs to do is access all those web searches & phone calls for what will probably be enough for anyone to manipulate the info.
Governments aren't above blackmail and/or extortion.
Govt Rep: "So Mr./Ms. Citizen, you say you have a problem with us breaking the laws of our great nation? Well, I wouldn't speak too loud about it or we will find a reason to bring your web surfing habits to light. Remember that porn site that you got linked to one day about 4 years ago? What will the people in your church think about you now? Your days of being respected in your community might be nearing an end, so I suggest you quit making any more waves for us, Mr./Ms. Citizen. Got it?"
Elected Politician; "So, you don't like the way we work over here in Washington Mr/Ms. political aspirant? You're going to run against us to try to stop our little gravy train? I doubt that you'll get elected once people hear about those phone calls to your friend who needed to borrow $3000.00 to help finance an abortion? Those religious right fanatics are good for more than food drives, ya know."
See, the information that is stored can be used in an incomplete and selective manner that only needs a small portion of what info is there. There may be info there that fully indicates that the porn site was accidentally linked to, but they don't have to bring out that part now, do they? They certainly won't. Mr./Ms. Citizen is screwed, and I doubt any court orders or petitions will get the govt to expose the information that isn't full to their benefit.
You are so naive.
Amitola @ 32:
Chicken Little, Chicken Little, the sky is falling! What do you people think happens to all this data? Do you actually think NSA has a bunch of nasty old spies sitting around listening to your Aunt Millie's phone calls or reading your e-mails to a secret gay lover? It requires massive computing power to search for key words that indicate the need for human review. As has been said earlier, if you don't say or write anything relating to a crime or terrorism, you have nothing to worry about from the big, bad, old boogie man. Believe it or not, the actual goal here is to protect you, me and everyone else in America.
The moronic lefty, nut jobs see a massive right wing conspiracy in everything thats being done to prevent further acts of terrorism. Don't you realize that the DNC, and Clinton style "war rooms", spin this crap out as talking points to likes of Keith Olbermann to further their political arenda?
Freakaloin :it’s okay if you don’t do anything wrong?
Ok - First I will admit I didn't read anyone else's comments because I want to scream at the top of my lungs at this guy. OMG - Who get's to determine what is wrong? What if something that is perfectly legal today becomes retroactively illegal tomorrow because so and so gets to say so. Here is a great example -
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
It's the passive attitude that is leading us into trouble. I'm not asking you to go to Washington and scream at every passer-by that the sky is falling... but talk to your friends, your neighbors, relatives. Let them know - so eventually - WE ALL KNOW.
So THAT'S why my dsl was running so slooooow
Symes @ 31:
Check your facts! That is completely inaccurate.
No wonder emails coming to and going from my box take so long. They've not been near instantanous like they used to be, for quite some time now. Must be the disruptive alt energy work I'm involved with.
http://freeenergynews.com
http://peswiki.com
http://pesn.com
The government only does this because it's convinced it can get away with it.
The only reason they're so convinced they can get away with it is because they have, time and time again.
They need to be shown differently.
Anonymous @ 77:
So let’s see if I got this right, the boys down at the “Government” are sitting around and someone says, “Hey not much going on lately, lets just spy on everybody”. Second guy says, “We can’t do that, it violates the constitution”! First guy says “Hey we’ve done it before, let’s do it again”!
For all you conspiracy theorists out there who are so worried about your privacy, what evidence do you have that your rights are being violated? For those of you that believe “Big Brother” is listening to every call you make and reading your e-mail, I want you to consider these facts:
1. 300 million people in the USA
2. 70% have internet access
3. According to USA Today, there are over 140 million wireless subscribers in the United States.
4. Add all the residential and business landlines to the total.
With this in mind, can any reasonable person, with half a brain, believe that NSA has the capacity to monitor all this traffic for content (and do it in real time)? Furthermore, ask yourself how big the database would need to be if all this data was collected and filed in a personal dossier for everyone in the USA. IMPOSSIBLE!
At best, if you know the sender or a receiving number or URL, it’s possible to monitor that traffic. So if there’s no reason for you to be a suspect, all your secrets are safe.
The politicians want you to be paranoid in order for them to scare you into voting for them when they promise to fix a non-existent problem. My advice, wise up! Our democracy is not under siege by the NSA!
BTW, if I wanted to post such drivel, I do so anonymously as well.
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