Spongebob.

How can we be the land of the free when we don't let anti-war veterans participate in Veteran's Day parades?

Frybread @ 3:

How can we be the land of the free when we don't let anti-war veterans participate in Veteran's Day parades?

Because they should shut the fuck up and show respect...

Although in a serious note, plenty of people seem to confuse silence with respect)

On a much more positive note here's a response to show respect for all our American troops who sacrifice so much for us all to be free including GB and DC!

Aloha and blessings from Hawaii!

http://www.familyforest.com
go to Veterans Day Tribute to my Uncle Donald

Our country is sick.

I have been complaining for 2 days now about George not showing up to lay the wreath at the unknown soldier. I can't believe he sent 5 time draft dodger Dick to do it. I was so pleased to see that KO was giving him hell over it tonight. Kudos to Keith.

Very good piece as always from Mr. Olbermann, but he got something pretty wrong.

In the lead-up to the story he said that "One in four veterans are homeless." That's not true, the study on the homeless that was published last week found that one in four homeless are veterans . An honest mistake, I'm sure, but it does make quite a bit of difference.

As a veteran, I have never been able to understand how anybody in uniform could support the deserter Bush. It is so apparent that he cares nothing about people in uniform, that he is willing to sacrifice limitless numbers of them upon the alter of his maladjusted ego. Judging by the way he treats veterans, his only interest is having his way with them, by manipulating them into serving his ends, and then discarding them we he's had his way with them. People in uniform and veterans mean nothing to him. I'm surprised that punk thinks he can look any of us in the eye.

Does anyone have a link to a story about the arrests and the refusal to allow anti-war vets to participate?

Fuck the VFW!

These bastards claimed (as read on Daily Kos) that they wouldn't allow the anti-war veterans into the parade because they didn't want "anyone pushing a political agenda."

Pushing a political agenda? Are they kidding? What the hell do they think the military is for besides pushing political agendas? I would think shooting the opposition in the face is about as pushy as it gets.

Bush only pretends to be supportive of the troops (though in word - and photo-op - only) because he needs the troops to keep his perpetual war going. Other than that, words have little meaning when you NEVER follow through, when your words don't match your actions. It is absolutely disgraceful and shameful the way this administration treats the soldiers after they are done fighting. By not giving the soldiers the raises they deserve, by repeatedly extending their tours, by not taking care of soldiers after they come home the way they should (and the way the deserve to be treated), by using public funds to pay for private mercenaries who work alongside soldiers but receive hundreds times the pay the soldiers receive, and by not following through with promises of benefits they promise young men to get them to sign up, this administration deserves to be tossed out on their asses.That last point is backed up here.

This last part is apparently not new. I heard someone who had served two tours, come back both times a day short of receiving his benefits, call into a radio show. He was very angry, and pointed out this was not new, that it had been going on a long time and was pervasive. Just because they are National Guard and not regular army, I hate to point out the obvious, these guys still put their lives on the line (on the front lines whatever that is) on a daily basis and they die and are injured while serving their country. A dead or injured soldier doesn't really differentiate between National Guard and regular army. Dead is dead and injured is injured. All their lives are changed forever.

This is disgraceful. It is like the government is committing fraud at worst, at best it is just slight of hand or a shell game.

Brad @ 17:

Does anyone have a link to a story about the arrests and the refusal to allow anti-war vets to participate?

Here's a link from Boston

another from (from FOX no less) Olympia, WA

yet another from Albany, NY

Do you need more to show the shameful way our veterans are treated. This is a disgrace to those in uniform. Bush is a punk that will live notoriously within our memories with that nitwit dumbfounded look as if to say, oops - it was only a few thousand troops. Bush has no legacy of honor. God bless those in uniform that are doing as they are told, if they only had the ability to dissent without being punished for their calling out the administrations war as illegal.

[Tags edited-Sitemonitor]

[Deleted. I fixed the tags on your original post-Sitemonitor]

I was in a GNC today, and heard a tale from the manager that a mother of a soldier who has spent 16 months in Iraq, and had just been sent back again, bought a case of a diet suppliment (maybe Hydroxycut?) to send to her son and his fellow troops. She said, between tears and curses against the president, that soldiers are living on the stuff - for the energy rush - not for the diet benefit. I would have posted this in the sandbox, but as I'm not a soldier I didn't think it was appropriate. Has anyone heard of this apparent diet pill phenomenon among our soldiers?

(sorry for the cross-post)

I wasn't suprised.

No really. What DID Bush do today? I'd like to know what he DID do, not just what he did NOT do. Does anybody know?

Newbie @ 27:

I was in a GNC today, and heard a tale from the manager that a mother of a soldier who has spent 16 months in Iraq, and had just been sent back again, bought a case of a diet suppliment (maybe Hydroxycut?) to send to her son and his fellow troops. She said, between tears and curses against the president, that soldiers are living on the stuff - for the energy rush - not for the diet benefit. I would have posted this in the sandbox, but as I'm not a soldier I didn't think it was appropriate. Has anyone heard of this apparent diet pill phenomenon among our soldiers?

(sorry for the cross-post)

Hydroxicut is not a dietary supplement, is a highly concentrated caffeine pill. Basically it is legal crank. It makes you jumpy and you lose shitloads of fluids, as it is a diuretic. Not a good combo for people in desert-like environments handling heavy equipment and explosives. I sure hope she is sending real supplements, like vitamins and what not. Not over the counter speed.

There were rumors that a lot of AF pilots were basically on speed during long time missions. There has been incidents of A10s unloading on allied forces by pilots who were out of their minds on crank or some shit like that...

We all know what Bush is going to do. There's no surprises at this point.

But what about the people? Where's the pressure? And where are the Dems? I don't hear Obama or Hillary or anyone making this a campaign issue or , better yet, proposing some sort of a legislation to make the VA system state of the art, give vets and their families enough cash to offset ALL costs they're incurring by being over there, etc., etc.

Ya know, the dems suck pretty bad too. They have the power of the purse to STOP THE WAR NOW if they want (despite what many think). If they're not going to come to their rescue by getting them the hell OUT of there, they can at least draft legislation to finacially take care of these poor kids and their families that have been cast into this disaster. But nothing. To me - a lifelong dem - it's the equivalent of them saying "F#ck You" right to my face. Nothing short of that.

May all the Bush family rot in HELL!

If these people must be sent speed, (which I agree, they should NOT), send ginseng instead. It is still diuretic, and you will still burn out, (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off maximum according to NASA and the Russians serving on Mir) but it won't do so as quickly as caffeine overdoses and can be used for longer periods.

But remember, if they have to patrol while "crashing" from ANY substance overuse (which is UNAVOIDABLE), they will be slow and think poorly. That's bad. This lady probably means well, but...

Just stick with the multis with plenty of extra B-complex and LOTs of water. Just my non-professional 2 cents... but then who am I to fight all the "energy drink" commercials that have raised our kids...

I can't even comment on the TFA and the news (to me) that Bush skipped Arlington. I just... what can you possibly say about it?

steve @ 35:

We all know what Bush is going to do. There's no surprises at this point.

But what about the people? Where's the pressure? And where are the Dems? I don't hear Obama or Hillary or anyone making this a campaign issue or , better yet, proposing some sort of a legislation to make the VA system state of the art, give vets and their families enough cash to offset ALL costs they're incurring by being over there, etc., etc.

Ya know, the dems suck pretty bad too. They have the power of the purse to STOP THE WAR NOW if they want (despite what many think). If they're not going to come to their rescue by getting them the hell OUT of there, they can at least draft legislation to finacially take care of these poor kids and their families that have been cast into this disaster. But nothing. To me - a lifelong dem - it's the equivalent of them saying "F#ck You" right to my face. Nothing short of that.

Let's not lose focus of Harry Reid's deal to give Mukasey the AG nod. Harry Reid is a neo-con puppet as well. Who does he think he's fooling. Obviously his constituents.

RESEARCH WHO YOU VOTE FOR PEOPLE! A little internet search would help you find all the information you need to know about his character.

He is just as crooked as any republican. Congresspedia has some nice tidbits about his values, and using his power to benefit himself and those that are close to him. Not to mention those that are willing to feed his campaign tens of thousands of dollars. What a cheap whore.

god damn police state silencing the vets.

steve @ 42:

nwmuse:

I live in Boston, so my sens and reps have voted the way I'd like on most stuff - I've sent emails to others...

They don't give a sh*t, to be quite charitable. They have caved on EVERY issue because they're afraid of the political ramification to their own behinds should an attack happen. Stopping the war, torture, FISA - what have they done? Nothing. I find telecom amnesty the biggest slap in the face because it takes the one form of redress people have against this tyranny - revealing what's happened through the judicial - away from us! Imagine that! The one issue that we can go over their slimy, corrupt heads for they want to nullify.

Steve, I have a grown son who is severely emotional disturbed and behavioural disordered. I learned a LONG time ago to not go by words, but by what is demonstrated. Words never matched actions. I have not missed much since this administration came into office. Not much of what they say matches with what they demonstrate. Same for just about ALL politicians in office with the exception of a few. The one that jumps to mind is Dennis Kucinich and watching him stand up on the House Floor reading the articles of impeachment against Dick Cheney. I have never been so inspired.. It was like watching the Super Bowl for me, especially when the fifteen minute vote turned into an hour vote with all the votes flipping.

When it comes down to it, Pelosi and Reid are indistinguishable form Lieberman. I go by people actions, not their words. With that criteria, what's the difference? Nothing.

nytimes - QUOTATION OF THE DAY - 20%er style

"I felt like I needed to let him know I don't hate him because my husband is dead, that I don't blame him for Clint dying over there." - MELISSA STOREY, on the letter she sent President Bush after her husband, Staff Sgt. Clint Storey, was killed in Iraq.

Pawn @ 23:

Brad @ 17:

Does anyone have a link to a story about the arrests and the refusal to allow anti-war vets to participate?

Here's a link from Boston

another from (from FOX no less) Olympia, WA

yet another from Albany, NY

Do you need more to show the shameful way our veterans are treated. This is a disgrace to those in uniform. Bush is a punk that will live notoriously within our memories with that nitwit dumbfounded look as if to say, oops - it was only a few thousand troops. Bush has no legacy of honor. God bless those in uniform that are doing as they are told, if they only had the ability to dissent without being punished for their calling out the administrations war as illegal.

Didn't a preznit shoot veterans demonstrating in DC after WW1?

Newbie @ 36:

I'm afraid it was Hydroxicut. I just wasn't sure of the name. The manager said it was basically just an "energy pill" that the troops have grown fond of. Like I said, this distraught mom sent a case to her son.

don't feel bad......if that was me..I'd want something too...............just be prepared to fix it when he gets home.......cause that might be a problem.But hey as long as he makes it home ...who gives a shit.just keep an open mind and be willing to do what ever you have to when he comes home.

"Keith also touches on the gut wrenching story of Lance Corporal James Blake Miller"

That Keith sure does love and support our troops...

John H @ 53:

"Keith also touches on the gut wrenching story of Lance Corporal James Blake Miller"

That Keith sure does love and support our troops...

Can you think of a better way to support OUR troops than bringing to light the bullshit they have to put up with to survive.......tell me please..a better way.

On the subject of silencing vets: my landlady is a vet with PTSD. She and I were out on the porch talking this April about being women and about PTSD and who's a good therapist, etc, and she told me this story.

In her weekly PTSD group therapy sessions (which she has had to fight like hell to keep), one of the other soldiers there is a woman whose hummer was blown by an IED. They had not been issued armor, so she and her patrol buddy had lined the floor under their seats with sandbags and their flack jackets. The explosion drove her flack jacket and pieces of the floor up through her legs, severing them and seriously damaging her torso, obviously rendering her unfit for duty. My landlady went on to say that a few therapy sessions ago, this unnamed vet (I don't know and I didn't ask) confessed that she had been told that if she talked to any member of the media about the fact that they were out there without equipment, her medical assistance would be cut off. Since she will need medical assistance for the rest of her life, this was and is tantamount to a death sentence.

Unfortunately, my landlady is a conservative. I haven't had the chance to sit down with her again and ask how the last seven months have affected her view of this administration. She told me as if she needed to confess to someone, and I respected that by letting her talk until she ran out of things to say and not bringing it up again. She does not appear comfortable discussing the incident and her feelings about it. It was horrible to listen to her alternating between the pride of serving in the Navy, for her one of the best experiences of her life, and far more negative feelings about what has been done to the military. If I want Bush to go to hell for anything, it'll be moments like that, moments where people who love their military, love the idea of serving their country are ashamed or frightened to ask for the help they are entitled to because they are being threatened or coerced into the compliance they are conditioned to use in battlefield conditions. I am beginning to think that active military service might be a very good thing to ask of our leaders, because at least it will limit the number of leaders who have likely never been in so much as a bar fight, let alone real combat, from making decisions that will needlessly waste the lives of their constituents.

Dr. Who @ 24:

Paul @ 15:

As a veteran, I have never been able to understand how anybody in uniform could support the deserter Bush. It is so apparent that he cares nothing about people in uniform, that he is willing to sacrifice limitless numbers of them upon the alter of his maladjusted ego. Judging by the way he treats veterans, his only interest is having his way with them, by manipulating them into serving his ends, and then discarding them we he's had his way with them. People in uniform and veterans mean nothing to him. I'm surprised that punk thinks he can look any of us in the eye.

Unfortunately we live in a culture where respect is granted not earned. And a remarkable percentage of personnel is still gogo over this jackass for reasons unknown... And a lot of people need meaning when they experience hardship and loss, and having to accept the fact that a lot of our good young (and scores of innocent civilians) died in a war of choice would make a lot of the sacrifice meaningless. Plus no one likes to look stupid, much less the crowd who supported this idiot in office... who besides all the indications to the contrary seem to ignore the fact that they voted and supported a buffoon (Ergo meaning that they are indeed a bunch of buffoons themselves).

My dad is an ex-AF (retired as an 05) and he would probably would manage to land a decent booger in the face of the monkey before he would be sent to Guantanamo if he was ever to meet the monkey in person. However, most of the officer core in the AF for the past few decades comes out of Colorado as some sort of wingnut zombie.

Plus remember, he is a war president, and Boosh needs to do all his war presidentin' in silence or else them terririst win!

Over at DKos their is a diary about what's going on at the USAF Academy and to be honest the military in general. How the religious right has infiltrated all the military branches and is actively pushing their agenda at their Academies and Boot Camps. As a retired military veteran this type of religious agenda has no place in the military. I'm sure you could do a study and find that promotions are being influenced by whether an individual is the "right type of Christain" or not. More damage done to the military by BushCo and the religious right.

CoIntelPro @ 49:

Pawn @ 23:

Brad @ 17:

Does anyone have a link to a story about the arrests and the refusal to allow anti-war vets to participate?

Here's a link from Boston

another from (from FOX no less) Olympia, WA

yet another from Albany, NY

Do you need more to show the shameful way our veterans are treated. This is a disgrace to those in uniform. Bush is a punk that will live notoriously within our memories with that nitwit dumbfounded look as if to say, oops - it was only a few thousand troops. Bush has no legacy of honor. God bless those in uniform that are doing as they are told, if they only had the ability to dissent without being punished for their calling out the administrations war as illegal.

Didn't a preznit shoot veterans demonstrating in DC after WW1?

Do you mean the Bonus Army?

CoIntelPro @ 49:

Didn't a preznit shoot veterans demonstrating in DC after WW1?

That was the Bonus Army in 1932 when the US Army cleared out a tent camp of 17,000 WWI vets demanding payment of a promissory note due them by law no earlier than 1945.

The marchers were cleared and their camps were destroyed by the 12th Infantry Regiment from Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment under the command of MAJ. George S. Patton from Fort Myer, Virginia, under the overall command of General Douglas MacArthur.

By the end of the rout:

* Two veterans were shot and killed.
* An 11 week old baby was in critical condition resulting from shock from tear gas exposure.
* Two infants died from tear gas asphyxiation.
* An 11 year old boy was partially blinded by tear gas.
* One bystander was shot in the shoulder.
* One veteran's ear was severed by a Cavalry saber.
* One veteran was stabbed in the hip with a bayonet.
* At least twelve police were injured by the veterans.
* Over 1,000 men, women, and children were exposed to the tear gas, including police, reporters, residents of Washington D.C., and ambulance drivers.

Bonus Army

that's the problem..this admin.You should ask her why?Why she still thinks this admin is all ways right.cause obviously they ain't

From the conversation I had with her, her experience with and belief in the military have made her susceptible to the 'fight them over there' argument. She honestly believes that if we don't keep squashing resistance over there, we'll be endangered. If you watch Bush's speeches (which I can only do in admittedly limited doses, as the laughter soon fades to homicidal anger or tears), he very cleverly plays on the idea that what we're doing over there is as much about world safety (which she believes is a problem) as it is about anything else. And she gets her news from cable tv. I have talked to her a little, but I am exceedingly fond of her, so confronting her would not be productive and I'd feel like such an ass. She's never confronted me. I'm hoping that the gentle approach will do it for her. I want to respect her (because she, despite my political disagreements with her, is a wonderful person) opinions, and I can tell she's as mystified by my stance as I am by hers. She's more than willing to agree that Bush has done dirty by the vets, but buys the idea that Dems will stand by and let the world have their way with us, which she feels she cannot allow. So we talk when our respective schedules will allow it, and I ask her partner how she's doing when I don't see her.

I think this is common in that twenty some-odd percent; some of them are more than willing to see that bush is farking things up, but are scared to death of losing military defense. And of course, there's some that feel like we should, 'finish what we started.'

Thank you for responding.

im curious as to what kind of funding our president and congress have offered for vets like healthcare?? Has the gov't been able to pay for vet services so far?

Sha_Rules, I would think a better measure of a true patriot would be not something pinned to their jacket, but what is in their heart and mind, and their willingness to stand up and fight for their country and Constitution; to speak out when it is called for, as it is now.

Dana @ 66:

As I've said before...our military is in dire need of a mutiny
and our country a revolution. America has forgotten who
it is and what it stands for!

No what we need is the Democrat so-called leadership to do their damn jobs and end the funding for this bullshit, and start drafting the articles of impeachment to make sure responsibilities are paid for this cluster fuck.

Boosh and his boys can fight all the war they want, so long they pay for them off their own pockets right after they are done serving their sentences in prison.

We *do not* need a military revolt, we need our opposition party to do their duty.

Hillary et al just want to hold their breaths a little bit longer and win the next election by default, expecting the GOP to be toxic enough to make their presidential run a cake walk. That to me is despicable, and as usual the Democrat electoral engineering team will manage to even fudge that one. Our boys deployed over there do not have that luxury, and many of them won't make back in one piece if at all.

Fuck the lot of useless idiots in DC.

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SUPPORT THE VETS
GIVE THEM THEIR HEALTH CARE!

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