Why Does Bill O'Reilly Hate America?
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Dec 11, 2007 1:17pm
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Oh, the fax machines at Grover Norquist's office are whirring again. And leave it to Bill O'Reilly to spin their talking points in his (surprise! surprise!) Talking Points Memo segment.
Naturally, the only people who have problems with waterboardings are the far left, the media (aren't they one and the same?) and some Republicans. I don't know about you, but that sounds like a majority of Americans to me. And the whole Jack Bauer scenario kind of falls apart when you realize that the great information the CIA got from Zubaydeh came a day later than the actual waterboarding...ticking time bomb indeed. Do they actually mean to say that there were no other ways--ones that conformed to basic human rights and the Geneva Conventions--to obtain that information? If so, then that makes the CIA look pretty ineffectual, doesn't it?
So tell me, why is Falafel Man so eager to endorse an act that the majority of Americans are against and that is illegal by both domestic and international standards? Does he hate America that much?
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yes
answering the "Does he hate America that much?" question
I am against torture because I don't want the government to torture me. Not so hard to figure out. The weapons they use on others now are the weapons they will use on dissenters at home. As it has ever been, so will it ever be.
He's a fool. He luvs GWB better than he does the USA.
I don't know what to say. He's just a major league ass hole.
I wish it were a crime to be "bad for the species."
Cons think people will think they're gay if they don't support every war and torture
Kind of a dumb move Bill'o. The statement next to his mug clearly admits a link between torture and Bush. If you don't like torture you don't like Bush. I think it's the first I ever agreed with this egomaniacle, sexual harassing, draft dodging wimp.
Good LORD. If I didn't know O'Reilly was for torture before, what he just did to poor Logic would have sealed the deal. I think the chump discovered he had a surplus of logical fallacies, and decided he had to use 'em all up before the end of 2007 lest he get fewer in next year's budget.
These guys represent corporate interests. They don't care if America turns into a police state with a martial law mentality. They buy into the frame that Americans are nothing more than consumers. We need people in the Press who are loyal to the American people not the corporations/defense contractors who own the media. How to achieve that.. I'm not sure.
www.StopBigMedia.com
The subject should be whether we should be doing any kind of torture. They tortured some the detainees with other methods they are not even talking about.
“Funston's example has bred many imitators, and many ghastly additions to our history: the torturing of Filipinos by the awful `water-cure,' for instance, to make them confess – what? Truth? Or lies? How can one know which it is they are telling? For under unendurable pain a man confesses anything that is required of him, true or false, and his evidence is worthless. Yet upon such evidence American officers have actually – but you know about those atrocities which the War Office has been hiding a year or two....” Mark Twain
Imperialism Isn't Fun When The Enemy Can Shoot Back
"Does he hate America that much?"
I'm willing to wager that Bill O'Reilly hates everybody, including himself.
LiberalTarian @ 3:
Good point. I suspect that when this happens, if it is not already happening, then one will see people like O'Reilly and the rest of the demagogues engaging in a game of blame the victim, that it is all their fault, and that they deserve every bit of violence that is inflicted upon them. As noted writer Michael Parenti has observed in one of his books, people like O'Reilly deserve the appellation of Superpatriots, though when it came time for O'Reilly to display his patriotism, he mysteriously came nowhere near a field of combat while wearing a military uniform. A case of do as I say, not as I do?
Which America you referring to? I don't see America anymore. When a people within a country start viciously fighting each other. It's pretty much over.
Is "Talking Points" a person? Talking points says "......blah...." I don't get it. Can anyone explain?
"Why Does Bill O’Reilly Hate America?"
Because it's not a Christian Theocracy.
Lex Talionis @ 16:
Well, at least not officially. Yet.
can we please have a thread about the debate? Thompson was just awesome telling off the weirdo host they had.
Yes he does. But he does love him some fascism.
Misguided indignation?
This from the guy who invented the annual War on Christmas?!
Lex Talionis @ 16:
As long as people have
* the plentitude of cheap diversion
* and the lack of a clearly defined threat (most people do no look up until the jackboot is on the doorstep)
* and a lack of understanding of modern oppressive forces (they still think it wears jackboots and cannot believe that they carry around legal proof of their gulag residency in the form of plastic credit cards)
we'll delude ourselves into thinking everything is basically fine.
It has not been established or proven in any way that any 'useful intelligence' of any type has been obtained by waterboarding or shocked genitalia or child rape or any of the other 'creatively enhanced' interrogation techniques.
FWIW, I was just over at CNN.com and their nonscientific poll question "Is waterboarding acceptable?" had 55% of respondents saying yes. FWIW.
This is RIDICULOUS. The idea that you would do it to save your own children.
HELLO?! We don't allow people to shoot people who killed their children for revenge. We don't allow them to go out and kill someone who is terrorizing the neighbourhood. We call that illegal. We call that immoral.
This isn't VIGILANTE justice Bill. This isn't the wild west where you take care of your own.
This is America. And if it has to stand for something. It needs to be a beacon of hope for every nation on the Earth.
You MORON.
Is he imitating dickless chainey making a kissy-face?
Bill(shit) O'Reilly hates America because he's such a loser as a human being. He was probably beaten up on a regular basis while at school, picked last for any team sport, and was taunted because his parents dressed him funny... and he's never gotten over it. For some weird reason that even he can't explain, he's got a big empty hole inside of him he keeps trying to fill up.
Then again, maybe he's just a wholesale loser with a chip on his shoulder, a big mouth, and no original thoughts whatsoever.
ysbaddaden @ 25:
You wish...!
SKINNER @ 23:
It would be advisable for CNN to ask the question if Americans believe it would be acceptable for other countries to waterboard American prisoners. Bit it is doubtful if CNN would do this because that would require their viewers to think outside the box.
Question: "Does he hate America that much? "
Answer: Yes.
Next question!
I can't stand to listen to him anymore, just like I can't stand to listen to Ann Coulter. I'll just read the text from now on.
SKINNER @ 23:
It's a question of framing. If the poll question had been "Would it be acceptable for another country's government to waterboard Americans?" you can bet that the results would be different. As long as it's us doing the torturing, most folks are fine with it. Just like the American Mainstream is largely okay with Christianity's overt influence on politics and policy, but if a congressman asks to be sworn in on a Quran, it's a scandal.
Jack @ 24:
Not right now it isn't. One more Republican administration and the experiment is OVER.
"Bush hatred"?
Uh, I plead guilty, Falafel Man.
Of all the idiotic reich-wingers on TV, this blustering punk bully is the one I find the most disgusting. I'd love to see somebody just pop him one. Just shut him the f--k up.
What a detestable, despicable excuse for a human being. I refuse to watch him.
Dear Bill O'Reilly,
Would you fly a plane into a building in another country if it would save YOUR spouse or YOUR child or YOUR family member? I didn't think so. You can't have it both ways, buddy. There have to be limits for BOTH sides in your imaginary War on Terrorismists. I also liked how you showed a clip of Sen. McCain denouncing torture but didn't say anything about it. What's wrong? You're willing to make general statements about those evil people who don't want us to waterboard so that your viewers can make their own conclusions about McCain but you're not willing to attack a man who underwent torture himself? Wow. That's pretty sinister...Did Rupert Murdoch put you up to this?
So if they 'broke' the guy after "he resisted for quite some time" (30-35 seconds), and he didn't confess anything for "the next day or so" (a short time afterward)*, what happened to the guy in the meantime? Did they presume that the "interrogation" had not worked and let him get some rest? Did they "interrogate" him in more ways and more "harshly"?
*Interesting that "quite some time" means 30-35 seconds while "a short time" means a day or two later. Sounds kinda backwards to me.
Let's control the argument folks. Bill O'Reilly and the other supportive Neo-Cons are Pro-Torture. Plain and simple. Stop letting these assholes control the language. It's not and argument between people who are "for or against interrogations," it is and argument between those who are "for or against torture." Say it anytime you're in an argument with these fools and repeat as often as possible.
You know, not trying to make a lot of excuses for "24" in regards to the right's favorite Jack Bauer-tickign time bomb scenario, but I will say this about Bauer as a character: Whenever he's about to do something incredibly illegal because The Fate of The World Depends On It, you usually see Keifer Sutherland on his call doing that silent-scream thing, saying "I take full responsibility, I'll take the blame, I'll take the hit, but we gotta move, and we gotta move now." And of course, because we're following Bauer in pseudo-real-time, we know that there IS a ticking time bomb, and we DO have to move now. Whether that would work in a real-WORLD scenario, at least we see someone acting "heroic" - willing to sacrifice something, his life, his career, his reputation, to save the world.
Which is why I think the modern GOP is a bunch of Jennifer Pissybritches. NONE OF THEM, NOT ONE, wants to take responsibiity, the blame, the hit, for being wrong in the event that someone is tortured and no good comes of it. So, instead of NOT torturing, which seems to me to be the ethical, Christian, American thing to do, they just insist on making torture legal. This way, if they fail to extract any worthwhile info, at least they don't get in trouble, Heaven forfend. This way, it's one less pardon Bush has to write, and really, that poor sonofabitch has enough to do, doesn't he?
jimbow8 @ 35:
Hey... quit making sense... that completely blows Bill(shit)'s bloviating.
I'll tell what real torture is.Having to see his stupid face and read the bullshit he spews.Fuckoff o'liely.Fuck Fox security too.
i'm curious bill...how exactly DOES one learn to shit out of his mouth? teach me plz? kthx.
slappy magoo @ 37:
Exactly. At least JB is willing to take responsibility. Making torture LEGAL means that one CANNOT be tried and found guilty for it. KEEPING it illegal still means that one may be found NOT GUILTY of torture by a jury or court. In other words under the second scenario, if torture is the "right thing to do" a person can be exonerated. Under the first scenario, one can torture with impunity with no recourse or responsibility because there is no way he can be tried.
TimV @ 36:
I just thought this bore repeating. You are absolutely correct. Whoever frames the issue, wins the argument.
curious @ 40:
Stuff food up your ass. Didn't you see that episode of South Park? ;)
BillO would be the first to to scream barbarians if our enemy did this to our soldiers. One of the main reasons why we shouldn't do it. IF other countries or organizations see us do it then why can't they?
To be willing to further piss off the rest of the world and affect the nation's moral standing in the world is to HATE AMERICA
So tell me, why is Falafel Man so eager to endorse an act that the majority of Americans are against and that is illegal by both domestic and international standards?
We're at War remember? In order to protect us from the Enemy, who wants to slice our heads off you have to torture to get information that could be of use to our Military so they can intercept the bad guys before they slice our heads off. Or hit our cities with suitcase nukes or dirty bombs.
Isn't that what the Corp Media as been stressing since 911? Shop, don't worry, be happy and we'll take care of the nasty tasks?
Would this make y'all pro-torture?
http://kyushu.com/gleaner/gliss46/image24.gif
If you do it just for fun, does that put you in the amateur league?
Hearing O'Reilly pontificate is similar to watching the classic 1950s film A Face In the Crowd with Andy Griffith. In that film, the television audience is manipulated into giving credibility to a third rate country singer. In today's world, American audiences are supposed to believe that a former tabloid television reporter is capable of issuing pearls of wisdom that the unwashed masses are somehow longing to hear. Yet O'Reilly's audience, whose average age is about 71, eagerly tune in to hear what their idol has to say concerning events which he has no more intimate knowledge of than the average working person. Perhaps the lesson here is that people will believe what they wish to believe, relying more upon emotion than facts and intelligence.
ysbaddaden @ 47:
First off, who's "ya'll?" The S&M community? Is this an official "S&M Community" website?
Second, does having regular, missionary-position sex make you a rapist? Consensual behavior involving legal adults is not the same thing as kidnapping someone and torturing them against their will.
Erroll @ 48:
"American Idol" #1 (And #2) In 2007 Ratings
Some believe that in order to save lives, we should do whatever it takes. A short 'swim' on a board is no big deal. Just a little water, right? But where does that lead? What do people like O'Reilly, Scarborough, etc. think about John Yoo's comments concerning the abilities of a president in regards to torture? He says there is no law or treaty that would keep the president from "crushing the testicles" belonging to the child of a suspect. Just think about that....
Of course those who defend maniac Yoo would declare we'd never actually do that. To them I suggest they listen to the claims of Seymour Hersh who has actually viewed videos that make waterboarding look like nothing, and which would force the immediate resignation of the entire administration if made public. Too bad they are probably locked away in some underground vault.
At the rate the MSM is brainwashing this country I wonder if a nativity scene of the future will feature Brad and Angelina or Madonna and Guy figurines kneeling next to a cradle in a snowy pasture.
If hating Bush is wrong I don't want to be right
We really need to start working on differentiating ourselves from the regimes that we've historically seen as evil.
JudyLou @ 4:
actually billo loves a hand job better and wants larry craig to call him for a good time in minneapolis.
the way billo's lips are persed reminds me of a hospital bed pan that has been passed around too often.
I guess Bill 'O wants to be one of the "John Does" in the future war crimes trial of this administration.
Sweet
Its not about hating "America". Its manipulation to get the population to sign away everything to the group that took over the country. The regime hates the mass of people they want to dominate and drive before the cracking of the terrorist whip.
The Provokateur @ 57:
I was reading someone who mentioned the German People in the 30's were a hell of a lot smarter and aware of events then we are.
Now thats disturbing.
Lex Talionis @ 49:
Yes
I can't stand Orally as much as the next person here, but...
Has such a Faux News tone to it. That terminolgoy is Billo-ball in my book.
I think we can do better.
As you were...
Lawn Guyland isn't fit to be part of America.
Or maybe it was the religious epiphany that the CIA guy glosses over...
"We tortured him, then God talked to him, so obviously the torture worked...."
Bill O'Reilly is a heinous human being. He should have been marginalized but the leadership at Fox "News", who are themselves heinous, decided to give him a national audience. He BELONGS at Fox "News".
I would love to see a liberal ask one of these freaks one simple question:
If waterboarding isn't torture, does that mean it's ok for countries to do to our soldiers?
The thing about torture is where does one draw the line once one begins?
If waterboarding is OK, then is breaking a finger OK?
If breaking a finger is OK, then how about severing that finger?
If severing a finger is OK, then how many fingers can you sever? How about a hand? or a Foot? What about breaking a leg?
If one is allowed to break a leg, then get out the chainsaw for nick....of course not near an artery... Why not? It's not fatal.
How about blinding someone? Samson in the Bible got blinded, and he lived a little while longer for a little revenge on his tormentors, now, didn't he?
Let's see... one could remove someone's tongue if they won't talk... that won't kill them...
Where does it all stop?
I love that his source said that Waterboarding was torture and shouldn't be used in the same interview. lol Talk about taking things out of context.
Lex Talionis @ 49:
Who's "'y'all"? Who's "y'all"????!!!
All y'all's y'all boy! Sheeooot.
Bud @ 66:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQ3i_XQXsw
It's sad just how much Fox News hates America. Perhaps it's really Murdoch (since he's not American) that hates America, and would like to see us destroyed. Obviously, Fox has nothing but contempt for all the good things we used to stand for. I think that makes O'Reilly and all of the other Fox Folks traitors.
Erroll @ 28:
Jesus Harold Christ...
Am I to assume from that poll that 45% of respondents believe that waterboarding ISN'T torture?
If that's the case, then the Administration has done its job. They've taken a question as dirt simple as "Is the sky blue?" and muddied the argument so much with their incessant spinning, that they've managed to convince half of the pollsters that waterboarding isn't so much "torture" as it is "enhanced".
Just when I was starting to have faith in my country again.....
What's the next CNN poll? "Are cigarettes bad for you?"
Golly you people know what...I think Bill O'Reilly hates everything and everybody except himself.
What Billo needs to cure is narrow-minidness is, to hear of one of our hostages returning homeafter being waterboarded, have that person on the show and for him to repeat it.
Turn out the lights.
I wonder how quickly Bill O' would have given up the facts of his sexual harassment case if the interrogators got to use "extreme" interrogation techniques? Where will it end. I guess that we can start allowing police to use water boarding to get confessions from suspected murderers, because keeping them off the street will save lives. Right? Screw the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Habeas Corpus, the Geneva Convention, the US Constitution and every other sane rule of law ever used by civilized nations. Sorry Bill, we as American's have a the right & responsibility to disagree with what our elected, or in this case non-elected officials do under the guise of National Security. I can't even believe that Fox News has been allowed this topic to become a debate, since the overwhelming majority people continue to view water boarding as torture.
Opponents of waterboard can, and have, proven the practice amounts to torture. Bill has no proof to back up his spurious paranoid claims of thousands of American lives being 'saved' or still in danger. There is no argument here, because there is literally nothing to argue.
As for the 'would you waterboard to save your children' question, which we *have* to address if only to demonstrate a willingness to accept that the world isn't entirely black and white (unlike the wingnuts who dismiss hypotheticals all the time), the obvious answer is 'yes'. But that still doesn't make it *right*. If that's the only option the question makes an allowance for, then something has gone seriously wrong with the process leading up to it. Somebody would have to be putting a gun to the kids' heads and threatening to pull the trigger, or some insane shit like that.
He doesn't just hate America, he hates himself. Look at and listen to this weak sorry man and his "my way or you're stupid" rhetoric. Bill says we don't have a right or reason to hate Dubyah because HE SAYS SO. Bill, we get it; you and your bullshit makes grandma and grandpa feel safe from us. But they're dying off Bill, and soon it'll be just you and us. Time, in every way is on our side.
The Nazis claimed that they were saving lives by torturing their "enemies" too.
And for Billo,
I don't hate torture because I hate Bush, I hate Bush because I hate torture.
Orangutan. @ 9:
Find out what corps own the media and and refuse to buy their products.
SEXUAL PREDATOR!
Neo-cons like torture because it takes them back to their youths and the wonderful memories they have of pulling legs off of small creatures.
Besides, we all know it's not torture if it happens to a non-white person sillies.
One thing I am getting tired of with CNL is this. I don't watch FOX, but every time someone on that network says something, ANYTHING, it gets reported here. You bring this site up and the first thing you see is FOX bullshit. Can't we ignore these people now? I don't care about them. Couldn't give a damn what BillO says on any subject at all. Do CNL folks need to spend so much time telling all of us what we don't care to know? Wouldn't we watch if we thought it was important? Republican politicians are different, the 'govern' supposedly and need to be watched, but BillO?
If the waterboarding was successful, he would have told them everything at once instead of waiting for the next day. It was concern for his fellow prisoners that loosened his tongue. Threatening to punish others for your actions is a proven way to get someone to change his behavior. Moral anguish is more effective than physical anguish. Of course, you must believe that terrorists have morals, however twisted, in order to employ the technique.
bill...
following your logic -- if your neighbor was killed and you became a suspect -- perhaps innocent -- and you were waterboarded... would it be torture... why don't we start waterboarding our own citizens for any number of suspected crimes. how many americans do americans kill? let's get out the waterboard for EVERY interrogation...
Bill loves torture, Joe Scarborough loves torture. there is no more transparency in govt, but at least there is on these guys.
"If you hate torture, then you hate Bush."
The honest assessment of the year!
You can see the evil stamped on his face.
I know I'd like to stamp on his face.
perhaps the point of kiriakou's comments is to get the facts on the record.. that waterboarding is torture and that torture failed.
ysbaddaden @ 68:
Jeebus! There is a gigantic difference between fun and torture! Unless the players are crazy, BDSM involves consent.
You gotta ask to get hurt.
BDSM may invoke the specter of torture, but it differs fundamentally from a procedure involving a kidnapped adult who has not negotiated the events and does not have the ability to have the dom arrested if s/he steps over the preset line. I mean, there's idiots out there in every possible pastime, but that doesn't necessarily make the pastime bad. (Yes, I know there are pastimes you should not indulge in because they are inherently hurtful, but BDSM is not a matter of pulling the wings off flies or something like that. It's about cruelty, sometimes, but not being a monster.)
I realize BDSM can look like torture and feel like torture, but asking someone you like to hurt you (or vice versa) is different than being kidnapped and held without the chance to get legal redress or be monitored for health.
gg @ 12:
You nailed it.
Simply, if this is acceptable, then the next time there's a bombing or threat of bombing against an abortion clinic, the suspects can be waterboarded to discover if there's any other potential threats, what they know, etc. After all, that's terrorism.
Of course, I somehow doubt the wingnuts are going to tolerate that, are they.
Right now they think it's OK if my government can torture me. That destroys freedom and democracy because it OK's hideous, horrible, coercive treatment. Somehow they're not worried however . . .
mouthyb @ 87:
I'm sure Andrea Dworkin would argue the point with you.
billo misapplies logic when he states that the use of torture produced the effect of no attacks since 9/11. he could just as easily have stated that the lack of attacks since 9/11 has been due to the vacuum in bush's skull.
Better that than a submissive moral capitulator bowing to the fear mongering of an incompetent fool.
They point to Abu Zubaydah as a case where waterboarding produced results.
1. How many cases did not produce results?
2. What answer are they looking for? If the answer is wrong, how do they know?
3. If they think they know the answer then torture someone to hear it from him, what was the reason for torture?
4. How do they know who may or may not know something?
Just like in the wmd Intelligence they tell you whatever was a reason to go to war, never telling you all the Intel that pointed away from war.