A peek into an odd and inexplicable perspective
By Steve Benen Tuesday Mar 18, 2008 7:30amI suspect it’s pretty easy to guess how Democrats will come down on Obama’s speech on race — his supporters will say Obama effectively clinched the nomination, while Clinton’s supporters will argue that great speeches do not necessarily make a great candidate.
And what of our conservative friends? Kevin Drum grabbed the various reactions from the blogging staff at the National Review.
“Amazingly bloodless and dull; part moral hectoring part awkward defensiveness.” “I think if you want to be romanced by your candidate, he romanced you. And if you’re a guilty white person, you’re with Obama because he said so.” “Was it just me, or did anyone else note that for the first half of the speech, Sen. Obama seemed annoyed, put out by having to give the speech in the first place?”
“This a breathtaking attempt to pass off Wright’s hateful rants by implying that they are little different than the ‘political views’ of some priest with which a parishioner might disagree.” “Obama is no longer a post-racial candidate....today, he has embraced the politics of grievance.” “Blame whitey, and raise high the red flag of socialism. This is a serious candidate for the Presidency? Toast, toast.”
I know others have made this observation before me, but reading these bizarre reactions made me wonder what the reaction might have been to, say, JFK’s speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960 if The Corner was around to live-blog it. Or really, any of the great campaign speeches of the modern political era.
I almost wish there had been live-blogging at the time, if only because the reactions would appear so utterly ridiculous in hindsight.
I’m not necessarily arguing that Obama’s speech in Philadelphia will still be talked about decades from now — though, in all sincerity, I think it’s certainly possible — but if it is, I hope historians remember to reference conservative responses. “Blame whitey, and raise high the red flag of socialism.” This is what passes for insightful conservative thought in 2008 — at one of the right’s highest profile blogs?
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What a drumbass.
..and this morning, a new Reuters poll shows that Obama has lost his lead over Clinton (National poll) and McCain is now leading both Clinton and Obama (again, National poll).
Have the Dems now unequivocally shot themselves collectively in their feet???
Dean, instead of asking for money for the National election, fix this primary battle before the opportunity has truly been lost, because if current trends continue, there will be no reason to fund a Dem national campaign.
Thanks for the kitchen sink Hillary, thanks for the Michigan and Florida mess Howard.
100 more years in Iraq, you should all be proud.
Fascism. To them, everything else is Socialism.
Right-wing pundits are right there with flat earthers: ignorant and increasingly irrelevant.
I just heard Juan Williams on NPR, a black man for God's sake, complaining that Obama did not do enough to 'distance' himself from Wright because he refused to totally throw him under the bus. This from a 'black man'. So the corporate line of attack remains the same. Williams should be forced to bleach his skin white. What a fucking scum.
In the spirit of reconciliation, Here's What Hillary Has in Common With Obama’s White Grandmother
Those 'national polls' pretending to show McStain ahead of Obama and Clinton are make believe ... an attempt to manipulate public perception ... do any of us here really think that half of the population of this country wants four more years of bush in the form of McStain ? what utter fucking bullshit
Don Davis @ 6:
She likes to spank him?
"Blame whitey" - did they even bother to listen to the speech?
Andy G @ 2:
I wouldn't believe any polls...they're all shite. Meaningless.
Wingers commenting on Obama's speech is hardly surprising. What makes me laugh is the number of comments I am reading at left wing posts telling us what Obama 'should have said'. Yo' mama.
So how exactly does Obama's speech forward anyone's action but his? The money line for me was his quip about finding people good jobs. Jobs aren't found, they are created by people with ideas about making things.
What irks me and many of my generation about Obama is that he has never lifted anything in his life heavier than a pencil. Work and military service do more for race relations than anything else. But how would Obama know anything about work or service?
Obama is a pony boy. By his own admission, he has been given much all his life by government. He thinks if we all get along and tinker under the hood, the government can find lots of ponies for everyone.
Obama actually benefits when race is the issue because it distracts his supporters from other things, like his support of NCLB, his pledge to grow the military so America can keep policing the world, and his inane idea that he can save 2.5 trillion a year in medical costs while giving us more coverage and not asking us to get healthier. On the last point Obama is clear, like Bush he will never ask anyone to sacrifice. He has never learned the emaning of the word.
There is a good 25% of the population which is made up of authoritarian followers who will never, ever give up their hateful, paranoid and delusional world view. Just remember we are "winning" in Iraq!
Tim, the Enchanter @ 9:
Pffffft!!! Listen?! these neo-cons don't neeeeed to listen! They made up their OWN Obama speech...which was, and I quote "Kill Whitey, the end."
Obama spoke to the American people as if they were thinking, rational adults. The question then becomes: are we?
How many of our fellow citizens will even read or listen to the speech? Will they just listen to the talking heads that tickle their ears and form their opinion about Obama and his speech from them?
From people's reactions we will learn alot about our fellow citizens. I do believe that this speech will appear soon in be required reading in college and high school classes about history, sociology, civics, current events, etc and our children and grandchildren will be influenced by it, no matter what happens in this Presidential race.
Tell the right wing pundits where to go. They seem to ignore when Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Chavez or when they call Katrina God's wrath against homosexuals and it goes on and on. Yet Obama's pastor must be held to a higher standard. Obama should ignore further questions on this and tell the media to quit wasting his time over bullshit. America needs to shut off the TV when this crap comes on also. Money talks.
Sorry but I don't believe that McWar forever has a chance in hell of ever winning.
I saw a rebroadcast of the speech on PBS and was not impressed. He seemed bored. There were echoes of George HW Bush looking at his watch during the debates. He was framed with flags like he already saw himself as president. His speech was basically one long Tu Quoque, and went from the specific to the general so he could appear to be rising above the general.
Obama's running on a basic DLC framework, Hillary's Health Care (but only covering kids), the title of his book came from the preacher in question, and echoes Bill Clinton's Man From Hope, his calls for unity sound like a more erudite version of, "I'm a Uniter, Not a Divider," he even coopted a phrase from Thomas Jeffersons--the Declaration of Independence--"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union... ." The latter of course is in the public domain, and should be known by all, but now days I wonder. However, since his preacher is basically being accused of giving an unpatriotic speech, it is a relevant phrase from a relevant document.
Too many of all Obama speeches have that kind of New Age babbling about "healing" popularized by the ilk of Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil.
Obama still seems to wear suits that look like they were designed by Botany 500, worn by Robert Petrie in the old Dick Van Dyke show, and his wife has the simple shifts, and flipped hairstyle of a Laura Petrie. Both these actors were seen at the time of echoing the look popularized by John F and Jacqueline Kennedy.
I'm beginning to wonder just who this guy is since he seems to be mostly shifting surfaces borrowed from others.
I can. I shall. I am. Obama08
Obama is not getting my support because of where he stands on two top issues. Ending The Iraq War and Universal Healthcare.
Obama's top foreign affairs advisor, Samantha Power said that his 16 month withdrawl plan was just a "best case scenario" and that it's just something he's saying as candidate for president. What? That sounds more like McCain's plan. We could still be in Iraq for years if Obama gets in office. I think she was fired for telling us what they discuss in private about Iraq and not the "monster" comment. Listen for yourself what they are planning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzy3lObigF0
In regards to Heathcare, Obama has plenty of negatives to tell you about Clinton's plan to distract you from the fact that there is "No Chance" we will see Universal Heathcare under his plan.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/04/krugman-if-obama-is-president-th...
Obama is not the agent of change for the Democratic Party. He never was. Hating on Hillary doesn't change that fact one bit.
Regardless of whatever anyone wants to claim about Obama or Wright , or what Obama's speech did or did not contain ; how can wrong wingnut pundits possibly try to claim his speech was “Amazingly bloodless and dull; part moral hectoring part awkward defensiveness" ? Have they actually listened to the mangled fucking speeches farted out during the last 7+years , along with the stupid old fart now prattling on endlessly about "his friends" ?
Holy fucking shit ; that's akin to a single-A baseball player criticizing Alex Rodriguez.............
Andy G @ 2:
Most polls are meaningless until days before that particular election. Can we go on to the next non story to try bringing Obama down?
“Was it just me, or did anyone else note that for the first half of the speech, Sen. Obama seemed annoyed, put out by having to give the speech in the first place?”
Considering Obama has repudiated and rejected the things Rev. Wright said, and is STILL getting hammered over it in the press while McCain humps the leg of every white bigot with a pulpit and is never called on it, I'd say he goddamn well should be annoyed this is still an issue.
blue @ 5:
I heard that too, and found myself yelling at the radio. Does Wright have a point about our foreign policy? I think so. Is racism still prevalent? Ask the good people of New Orleans. This whole thing about Wright is mind boggling. Read the Jeremiah text he was quoting, and then ask if he was being truthful.
jsparrow @ 19:
And loving on Hillary doesn't change her votes on Kyl-Lieberman or the Iraq war vote ..........
Check out the link to the National Review (via the Washington Monthly). Those loonies (appologies to our Canadian readers!) are still arguing about whether during the run up to the war the booosh admin claimed that Iraq and al Qaeda were in cohoots. What a bunch of f.....g loonies (again, appologies to Canadian readers).
No wonder this country is in such bad shape - soaring deficits, foreign-owned debt, two never-ending wars, and smirkymcchimptok in the White House.
The term 'conservative thought' is amusing. If you had to give it a name I'd call it "sore loser-ism". It's the kind of talk you'd expect from members of a failing dictatorship as they watch their construct crumble around them while their opponents enjoy renewed support and enthusiasm. Were things slightly different I would expect people like Gore and Obama to be quietly 'disappeared' and then loudly discredited for whatever crimes the regime chose to hang on them.
blue @ 5:
Juan Williams is black in skin color only is what I was thinking as I listened to him and Renee Montagne smugly pretending at being hard-hitting journalists. I don't recall them doing the same with John McCain. At any rate, they were utterly stupid. Reverend Wright no more defines who Barack Obama is than the pope defines who I am morally and ethically or than George W. Bush defines who I am politically, ethically, morally or what kind of American I am.
P.S. Renee Montagnes voice grates on me like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I really hate how she tries to spin things positively for the Right.
In a sign of how badly she thinks she needs the Michigan delegates to catch the Democratic front-runner, Senator Barack Obama, Mrs. Clinton made a last-minute schedule change and planned to fly to Detroit on Wednesday to plead with Michigan lawmakers to approve a new primary election in June to replace the January contest that awarded no delegates.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23697622/
Keep going Hillary! Fight until there is no party left! Fight while McCain sits back and laughs as he wins the next election. What an idiot.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say if this post stays active, the trolls will be out in full force in no time, just like yesterdays. Anyone find out who sent them all crashing here?
Yesterday I read a comment that expresses a truth of those who jeered at Obama's speech. What Obama was calling for, in part, was Americans to face our own individual brand of racism, recognize it, share our stories with each other, understand those black and white stories through mutuality, and work together beyond racism toward "a more perfect union" as a country.
There are those who have no intention of doing anything of the sort. They were here in droves yesterday, jeering, discounting, pointing fingers at Rev Wright's racism, never recognizing their own.
I've wondered how on earth to "reach" such people. Maybe they'll remain with us for a generation or two.
Moving beyond racism will probably take generations. Perhaps the only thing to do right now is leave racists behind to wallow in their racism, black and white together, and focus on the teachers, in schools, in churches, in kids' clubs, in books, music, TV. and movies, the whole shebang of influence on our culture. If they or their children someday recognize there is something better and are willing to reject their own racism through self-understanding and connection with others, they're always welcome to join an America that has changed and is moving forward without them.
It's time to compassionately marginalize the racists, sexists, homophobes, so that the rest of us can move forward toward something better.
.
If it makes anyone feel better, Abe Lincoln's "Gettysburg Address" speech (way back when) was also panned by the newspapers who reported on it at the time. Illinois does seem to be able to produce some good fine speech givers.
Can we move on and address other major issues facing the people of USA?
.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 29:
Jeff Gannon and Karl Rove's promise to be in the middle of their group circle jerk this evening .........
Bugs @ 4:
If you've got the power, and you claim the earth is flat, you're not irrelevant. You are a danger to yourself and your suroundings, and should subsequently be put in a safe place where you can do no harm. The worst thing to do is write them off as irrelevant, and therefor in some way harmless.
No talking heads can take away from me what I heard and felt regarding that speech. Hell yes, I'm voting for Obama. I made that decision a long time ago and his speech yesterday reaffirmed my decision.
MargeAggedon @ 26:
Hey marco, how've you been ?long time no see. hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
mudshark @ 35:
sorry Marge.
That was meant for
marco@25.
For x-tra laffs, looit The Cornerites' reactions to Mitt Romney's religion speech back in January.
ysbaddaden @ 17:
Dude, I almost got banished because I was having too much fun enjoying you Obama haters comical anger yesterday. But for you to compare Obama's speaking skills to Bush is not only the worst political reach I have ever read, but you too Ysbaddaden, should also be banished for that ridiculous lie.
Surely you don't expect someone who makes their $$ sucking up to conservative rightwingnuts to find ANYTHING good in something a Democrat(ic) candidate says or believes!???? That ability to listen, read, and assess fairly positions/comments/information USED TO be one of the reasons I was proud to say I'm a LIBERAL! Part of the definition of liberal for me was to be interested in and seeking both sides of an argument before making a decision. Sadly, that is no longer the case and in large part due, I believe, to "live or otherwise blogging"...just read through a thread on HUFFPO about comments attributed to Tina Fey about Jon Stewart and TDS - my GOD, GET A LIFE those who bought into that piece as something worthy of commenting on...I'm betting her tongue was in her cheek throughout the whole interview and most commenting wouldn't know funny if it kissed them on the cheek! Of course THIS IS AMERICA and we're all free to make ourselves into FOOLS on a daily basis.....
I've wondered how on earth to "reach" such people. Maybe they'll remain with us for a generation or two.
Try using a cattle prod...or a bang-stick like divers use...these "people" as you call them...cannot be reasoned with. They are inflexible in their prejudices. Hate, fear and ignorance is the security blanket for those types.
Here's my stance on race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtIu61s2PDo
pissed off patricia @ 34:
Ditto!
I read the speech before I heard it and to tell you the truth, it was one of the most beautiful, thought out speeches in recent memory. I can only tell you how I feel but as I talked to other people who heard or read the speech, we were in agreement. It is time to move forward and make this country, again, the beacon of the world. For far too long, the Hannities, Limbaughs, Coulters and the rest of their ilk have had the stage. Look at where it has taken us as a country. Now is the time to move on and make this a new day. We won't end racism because too amny people are invested in it but after the speech yesterday, I believe there are a lot more people willing to leave those with small minds behind.
ysbaddaden @ 41:
GAH!!! Darn you st8 to HECK! Now that damn song's gonna be in my head all effin day! Bastardo!
Shouldn't that be str8?
ysbaddaden @ 41:
As opposed to Larry Craig's race to a provocative stance in the men's room ........
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 44:
Any better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E42QvbqorZI
ysbaddaden @ 45:
ysbaddaden @ 45:
You HEARD me!
But yes...yes it should be str8...;p
My understanding is that Obama wrote the speech himself. I have to say I have not heard Pastor Wright's sermons. I don't have a television. My understanding is they would be difficult to miss. I haven't sought them out, he isn't running for President. I know something of the fiery rhetoric that can go on in churches, black churches, though I am an atheist, more, an anti-theist. I won't take that part up presently.
The speech goes way beyond the narrow consideration of Wright the individual and essentially seeks to address our entire human condition in this country.
Rachel Maddow calls it a challenging speech. Her grey matter connectivity is greatly admired by me.
I have listened once and read it three times. I am now attempting to analyze it in greater detail.
I wonder how many people here, let alone the country are willing to put forward the effort required to understand it thoroughly.
The level of political discourse has been so thoroughly dumbed down.
It is nuanced and profound.
I think it is imperative that we (as liberals/democrats/progressives) not allow the MSM/Right Wing to establish a set of talking points regarding this speech. My personal feeling is that Mr. Obama gave an outstanding speech. I am no longer a wavering Obama supporter. After that message, I logged in donated some money to his campaign.
I remember in the Oliver North hearings back during Iran/Contra scandal. The Right Wing somehow tried to lionize someone who admitted perjury to congress. Most people, particularly those most likely to be affected by Mr. Obama's speech, do not have the time to view the 40 minute talk. I am not dullard, but I had to watch it twice to really capture it. It would be a shame if we allowed spin like this to detract from what should be a historic address.
He's still trying to explain his twenty years of silence. He didn't seem to mind this piece of filths' rhetoric before it was broadcast on national TV. It seems a bit disingenuous now to call for racial tolerance when, obviously, he never gave it a second thought himself. People, in general, are willing to forgive many foibles. But hypocrisy at this level is too much. Stick a fork in him ----he's done.
ysbaddaden @ 47:
GAAAAH!!!
What? No Roger Ramjet? Slippin...
Yeah, but all these guys want is to hear Bush Jr. re-issue his post 9/11 speech to Congress, except they'd rather him do it in the flight suit.
After listening to the speech I began to wonder how long it would take for the right-wingers to find anything to smear, and sure enough they we out their in full force trying to find anything to parse.
You're kidding me, right? Did this guy even read or listen to the speech? At what point did Obama even come close to saying "blame whitey"? In fact, he really said the opposite.
And as to the "red flag of socialism", I just have to laugh. At NO POINT during his speech - or anywhere else in his campaign - has Obama advocated for socialism in any form. Of course, I'd like it if he did, but he's no socialist.
Try again, wingbats.
Neocompoop!
Relevant?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8
They were better with Eric Burden
Here's another oldie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_LjjI8TcQ0
See? Leave them to wallow...
This lugubrious exercise in self pitty seems to be the hallmark of the left thinking category of the human species.
C'mon folks, Obama will be fine. Teh Rev. Wright story is history, it is time to move along.
RLF @ 51:
If hypocrisy was any determining factor in any candidate's electability , the horseshit GOP wouldn't even be able to have someone elected to run a peanut stand .............
pissed off patricia @ 34:
Atta Girl!!
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 52:
Wasn't Roger Ramjet a 70's porn star?
I was going for a racing motif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZIjT3S7wvc
In this one, you can see me eating a banana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Ejtb6Ltqw
"Barack Obama stood up in Philedelphia today and called for race riots."
Wiing N. Job
(Writing for the Conservative Ragg.)
MCMetal @ 60:
Before the turn of the
centurymilennium a candidate like McLame would be nothing to worry about. Post Diebold, however, anything can happen.Alice Hussein @ 49:
I heard clips of Wrights speech...at first...the southern white male part of me didn't care for it...then the open minded part was like hey...maybe I'd feel the same way if I was a black man. This country hasn't exactly made it easy to be black.
I haven't heard Obamas speech in it's entirety, I have no tv either. I have read quite a bit of it though. And I think, from what i've read and heard, his (Obamas) speech will be in history books.
I am still a Obama supporter. Now more than ever.
Radically Moderate @ 59:
"It is time to move along", more like it's time to pass the buckets and keep bailing, because the Obama boat is sinking fast!
As many of you know I like both candidates.And will support whichever candidate gets the nod.
But I find Sen Obama somewhat disingenuous,when he first stated that he had never heard incindiary comments like that before form his church.And then yesterday he says he has heard such comments before..
And ,having known all along about these comments,still puts Rev Wright on his campaign as his "Spiritual Advisor".
Everybody jumped all over Ferraro for her comments,but give Obama a pass.
No,This will not go away anytime soon.you can move along,but,it's going to follow.
The speech was OK but not amazing. His delivery was stilted and stiff. The content was alright but not all that.
Wow, the neocons are rally starting to crawl into their bunkers. Political extinction must really be a bitch.
More appropriate for a McCain thread?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI
RLF @ 51:
You think his minister is a piece of filth? I've seen the controversial sermon. What exactly did he say that gets you so angry? Everything he said was the truth. Because a black minister said it, makes it a lie? I don't follow this bouncing ball at all. Those who protest this minister's sermon, seem to be card carrying redneck flag wavers that are shocked and angry that anyone dares to question the US "good guy" persona. Is that why everyone is so angry? One minister somehow took the shine off Americana?
See?
More wallowers.
If you saw Obama's speech yesterday, watch bush's speech at ten o'clock this morning and compare and contrast. Bush will be speaking about the Iraq invasion but compare their styles.
Bears Are Fat @ 68:
You sound like somebody who's father tried to drown him in a bucket of words as a child and now you look at all words in the same way.
Personally, i'd sue.
I'm sorry, but some you are real hypocrites. I may go to a movie and not like the movie but I'm not going to critisize the owner of the movie theater. If I go to a church and don't agree with the sermon, it is not up to me to critisize the Pastor. If I go to your house and see something or hear something you say, it is not up to me to critisize you. It is not Obama's responsibility to critisize the Pastor.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 71:
Thank you CC...Well said my friend!
jsparrow @ 66:
Time will tell if this non story will hurt Barack. Honestly, if this is the worst that the Repugs can throw at Barack his boat can weather that storm.
pissed off patricia @ 73:
No thanks...I'll pass.
I do think he's an eloquent speaker though(Obama)
pissed off patricia @ 73:
Normally I agree with your points PoP, but are you suggesting just because he is a good speaker, you support his bid? I mean, I've heard better speeches from grade 4 students than what Bush gives.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 71:
Amen!
pissed off patricia @ 73:
Mangling the English language while spewing out stupid unintelligible shit like an epileptic pigeon is considered a "style" ?
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 76:
Walk a mile in his shoes.