Bob Schieffer Commentary: "No Longer Any Good Answers" On Iraq
By Logan Murphy Saturday Apr 12, 2008 12:30pm
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General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker's Iraq testimony before Congress this week was a hot topic and this morning on Face The Nation, host Bob Schieffer says he doesn't believe either party knows what will happen when we finally pull our troops out of Iraq:
"The administration believes there will be chaos if we leave Iraq, Democrats see chaos if we stay. The more I listen, the more I came to believe that neither side really knows what to do now, that we have reached a point where there are no longer any good answers. Whatever we do, there will be consequences."
Schieffer is correct in one sense; we don't know exactly how things will go when we finally pull out of Iraq. But, to say that "Democrats see chaos if we stay" is misleading and not entirely accurate -- we ALREADY see chaos in Iraq on a daily basis, and it's not just Democrats who recognize this. Our destructive occupation of Iraq, which is manifests itself now in large part to putting up concrete barriers to corral and divide the citizenry, is the destabilizing factor that keeps the country in a constant state of chaos.
As Think Progress notes, the average Iraqi doesn't know who the hell Petraeus and Crocker are. All they know is they want us to leave so they can move on with their lives and repair the damage we've done to their country. One thing we CAN say for sure is that things are moving backwards in Iraq. This week was the deadliest week for U.S. troops in 2008 and there is still no end in sight.
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This was a war started without any good answers. It should be no surprise that we still have no good answers.
It was started with a false pretext.
Oh, bullcrap.
Neither side knows what to do? I know that on the Democratic side, they know precisely what to do.
Get out, and then put The Shrub and Cheeeeeeeney on trial for war crimes and treason.
The execution of bad policy in Iraq has left us with no good options. Yes there will be consequences either way, and this administration will be judged harshly for being responsible for those consequences. s
it's so silly...the msm discourse on iraq!!!
iraq is a transfer payment...from the poor and middle class to the war profiteers...it's that simple
no one in washington wants to turn off the $600,000,000,000 a year spigot
not obama
not hillary
not pelosi
not reid
no one
very few in washingtion give a fuck about the iraqi's...they don't give a fuck about us why would they care about iraqis???
marko @ 4:
Somebody is going to have to care about that spigot, by design or by default, the bill is coming due; witness our economy, while other nations are booming, we are about to pay...big time!
I wish Bob would have Soldiers and Veterans as guests.
They have been trying to tell their story to the media for years.
http://www.appealforredress.org
John McCain Concedes There’s ‘KAOS’ in Iraq
[Deleted -Sitemonitor]
The Smiths @ 6:
I wish Bob and the rest of the pundits on television [including the quasi liberal Keith Olbermann] would have anti-war people on their programs. Olbermann actually had one on his show last week, former Lt. Gen. William Odom, and I almost fell off my chair from shock. Rarely does one see [except for Democracy Now!] any genuine anti-war voices on the place where most Americans get their news, i.e. television.
he wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ended some years ago. In Iraq, the war ended with the fall of Saddam Hussein's government; in Afghanistan, with the fall of the Taliban government. What's been happening since is occupation and resistance to occupation.
Well said Logan. In the media we here too much of the neocon talking point of how it will be "chaos" if we leave. This is the same story that it has been all along. These guys were DEAD wrong about everything they told the American people when it came to the occupation of Iraq. Now we are supposed to believe them? Now is the time when they are actually correct? People on the right spend sooo much time trying to argue a hypothetical that it has become laughable. NO ONE knows what will actually happen if we leave! What I do know is that no more of our troops will die. That is indisputable.
The key word there is chaos. No matter what, chaos can not be controlled because it is random and unpredictable and Iraq is no exception. The best that one can hope for is to simply contain it to some degree. We have been seeing a chaotic mess in Iraq from day one up until the present and for me that simply says that no matter what, the U.S. Government has never had any sort of control there and never will.
Erroll @ 9:
Keith has anti-war people on quite a bit. He has John Solz from VoteVets on almost every week. Don't know how much you watch him.
Come on Bob. You are roughly 5 years coming to the fact that there are no good 'answers'. The people who knew and said that years ago were either ignored by you (and your co-mouthpieces on the teevee) or allowed a minute on air and then criticized to hell. You enabled from the start and you feel what now, bad, guilty? If you want to do something positive, take The Smiths advice, or broadcast Winder Soldier in your time slot. If you can't do that, go away, or shut up.
You tell us NOTHING that we do not know from 1) turning off shows like yours, 2) from reading, 3) from knowing even a fraction of history. Here's a phrase for you: "Occupations never end well". Everyone is D.C. knows we have to leave. This lying 'Kick the can' game is to make sure that the sovereign nation of Iraq signs off on oil.
Waffling around like Schieffer does really helps underscore the inability of the media to admit what a clusterfuck Iraq is, and again, playing both sides of the fence (damned if we do, damned if we dont) the media refuses to be clear and concise in any evaluation or even make any definitive statement.
Its sickening that no one will come out and say that "Since 2003, the argument of imminent threat has been exposed as patently false, and the resulting chaos since we invaded Iraq has not abated, while the mission is increasingly unknown by most Americans. "Stability" is an entirely subjective term, and those who evaluate so-called "progress" are the same ones who demanded in the year after 9/11 that we invade this country in the first place. How much longer will anything they say be taken seriously?"
How about that Bob? Enough with the generalities
I disagree completely.
I can think of a great reason to stay in Iraq...a trillion dollars worth of oil.
instead of the IRS sending everyone a check for a thousand bucks...
just give out some stock in Exxon instead! ...some Halliburton stocks too maybe.
It would be a good way for the military to boost recruiting too!
a lotta people will join the army to help protect their "investments"!
The consequences of obl's attack is ongoing.
The consequences of the Iraq occupation is ongoing.
The failures of this administration is ongoing.
At some point, somebody has to have the guts to stand up and demand the resignations of w and cheney to stop the ongoing disasters.
Here lies the core of the bitterness Hillary has been quacking about, pretending it does not exist: as these Washington Windbags sit around and spew lies, followed by the media's twisting of said lies, the rest of us out in Mondo Bizzarro wait for the bloodletting to end, the dollar to crash, the crops to fail, the floodwaters to recede, we wait for the American eagle to straighten up and fly right, as a wise man said.
When it all gets too much, we go up the road into the hills, to Big Cedar Creek, camp out under the stars, stare at the moon and the fire, and shed tears of happiness at the sight of wild irises.
Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards tried to tell us about how WAR PROFITEERS own "our" national politicians. President Eisenhaur warned us about it a generation ago. What we have in Iraq is a direct result of BIG BUSINESS using the military to make a profit. Bush and Cheney will go down in history as the primary ENABLERS that allowed this to happen... but they had a lot of help.
At least Bob Sheiffer is trying to get people to THINK about the situation.
Chris Matthews, on his show this morning, spent his first TWELVE MINUTES GLORIFYING McCain's presidentian campaign.
Well, Bob, there were plenty of good answers in 2002. In fact, there was only one answer: DON'T GO INTO IRAQ!! But of course, members of the mainstream media such as yourself, Bob, would have none of that anti-American talk from Dirty Fucking Hippies. Isn't that right, Bob? So now, after the Iraq invasion has proven to be everybit much the clusterfuck we hippies were warning you about, you wring your hands and whine about the absence of "good answers" regarding Iraq. Well, behold the quagmire, Bob. You guys bought into it way back in 2003, and you own it now.
I would also like to comment on Schieffer's "There are no longer any good answers." There never were any good answers because the U.S. Government, through its military only occupies a small position in Iraq and therefore they have little influence in its evolution. We Americans always think that we decide the outcome. Everyday in Iraq, we are faced with the hard reality that we in fact, control nothing and for most Americans that is difficult to accept but it is reality.
Lollimom @ 2:
Which democratic presidential candidate wants to do that? Hillary or Obama? ...and when?
cuz...I can't recall Hillary or Obama ever talking about putting these Neo-cons on trial.
I mean...impeachment is off the table right? or did I miss something...
The answer is the TRUTH bob ... THE TRUTH.
This was a war of opportunity - the worse form of war crime there is. You cant continue that to some conclusion not involving war crimes. Peace and harmony never ensue from such vile acts ... Bob.
As usual, balanced reporting to the major 'pundits' means putting up GoPerv lies, then Dem truth, and thinking they're reporting.
When did the US pull out of Germany after World War 2? Korea? Haiti? South America? There is no pull out. There won't be a pull out. Doesn't matter who the next government is. Eventually the numbers will "draw down" but after building almost a billion dollar embassy, and giving out all those private contracts, NOBODY is going to pull out any time soon. Those that think any Dems are in favour of that, better do a quick doubletake. You are to be sadly disappointed with this delusion.
you mean there are still folks who don't think that deliberately fomenting chaos in iraq as an excuse for us to keep dumping money there is part of the neocon strategy?
Ranger is right. A big first step is to quit calling it a war. It's an occupation, and our choice is to pick the size of our humiliation.
But who dare take on the war profiteers? Dems should have put that bill up A LONG TIME AGO and dared Bush to veto it.
It MAY be chaos if we leave, then again, maybe it might just flare up a bit and settle once we are out and they don't have us propping them up.
But this IS (b)ush's War, he will be remembered thoughout history as the one who played into the hands of Osama Bin Ladin and did more than what Bin Ladin could have hoped for. Financial ruin for the U.S.
I don't know of ANYBODY who has anything good to say about our Jerk in Chief, whether I'm in the U.S. or over here in S.E.A. its the same, Bush is an idiot in everyones minds. I visited my buddy down in Bali a few weeks back and he and his group of friends went on endlessly about how bad this president has been for America and how he should be treated once out of office.
History wont be kind to this president. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
anon @ 23:
Agreed. War never leads to peace and harmony. It leads to resentment, hatred, violence, and yes, even more terrorism brought about by revenge. The only way that an occupier can bring about peace and harmony is if the country being occupied submits willfully to the occupiers will. This is why occupations always fail. Very few have succeeded in the past and for those that did it was very costly for the occupier indeed.
getalife @ 17:
i'd actually say "the cause of obl's attack..."
There were no good answers in Vietnam either but we had the sense to finally pull our troops out and allow them to solve their own problems. The dreaded Domino Theory which was predicted by the warmongers never materialized. But the Republicans never learn from history other than new ways to rape the American economy. So maybe there are no good answers here either, but there is one Sensible Answer: end the occupation as quickly as is humanly possible and let the Iraqis get on with whatever it is they have to do, sink or swim. It's time we stopped throwing good money after bad. And it's time we acknowledged that we threw away a lot of lives, American and Iraqi, to bolster the egos of Bush, Cheney and company.
odanny @ 15:
Well said. Except the Bushies knew before 2003 that Saddam had no WMD. Both Condi and Powell said as much. That's why they had to cook the books.
Bob, you listen to the wrong people.. Why don’t you think fror a moment, without being told – there is a good aswers, it always was: impeach this presidency for taking US into an illegal war of aggression.
Richard Clarke framed the question properly a long time ago.
Once it was clear that the war was over and it was an occupation, he said;
"There is going to be a full scale civil war there whether we leave in one year or whether we leave in twenty... these factions have been at it for a very long time and it won't change. What America has to decide is can it afford to pay the price for staying longer."
The answer is obvious... we can't afford it any more.
Bob, Bob, Bob. Don't you know that you just need to interview your BFF, Dirty Dick Cheney. He'll put you straight on Iraq. He'll be glad to tell you that in his opinion, Iraq is, in fact, going really really well. Then he'll cackle and float away under his Penguin magic umbrella.
Bob is right. We do not know what will happen if we leave, but we know what will happen if we stay. We will see more soldiers killed, maimed and their families damaged. We will see more Iraqis killed, maimed and their families damaged. We will bankrupt this country. We will further dimenish our tarnished reputation around the world. We will further incite and grow terrorism strengthening our enemies. In short, the worst case is already taking place. Doing something different at least gives us a chance for an better outcome.
bradda @ 13:
Let us be clear about this, shall we? That quasi liberal Olbermann, as well as the rest of the hosts on the other talk shows and news programs, very rarely has on a genuine anti-war voice on Countdown. Former Lt. Gen. William Odom was one of the very few to fit that criteria. It is admirable that Jon Soltz speaks out on behalf on veterans [of which I am one] bu he, along with liberal war hawk Paul Rieckhoff, do not support the total and immediate withdrawal of troops from that quagmire in Iraq while Odom does take that position. It is also noteworthy that neither Soltz, whom you believe to be anti-war, nor Rieckhoff, are members of the IVAW, which is in favor of U.S. forces leaving Iraq as quickly and as rapidly as possible.
It turns out that I watch Countdown every day. I suggest that you would be hard pressed to find one guest on Countdown in a week, much less in a month, who is calling for the immediate withdrawal of those troops from Iraq. Lt. General Odom was the rare exception to that rule. Olbermann does have Soltz and Rieckhoff on his show rather frequently. But again, those two are not genuine members of the anti-war movement.
There have always been consequences. It's just that we've always been able to make sure that most of the bad consequences only happen to the Iraqi people.
It's about dang time that the administration who got us into this mess had some bad consequences happen to them.
Well once again bloody bill ,he likes his nick name, talking up war! alligator mouth, hummingbird ass! zionist coward. One of founding members of PNAC and listed as a suspect in 911 by 911 truth movement. New nick name for you, gutless bill,zionist shill! Perhaps he will eat some of the shit he spews and die.
Alice Hussein hit the nail on the head in the first comment. This high tragedy was in the cards from the git-go. The fact that the people and congress assembled permitted themselves to be stampeded by war criminals in no way diminishes that rude truth. Which is not to say they are without guilt. Quite the contrary, given their willingness to maintain the criminals in offfice. But the conceit that it was only in the aftermath of Bagdad's fall that the wheels came off is just that- a nationalistic conceit.
Rasputin @ 34:
You know, before World War I, everybody assumed European powers would never fight a long war, they could not afford to do so. The European powers seemingly confounded that self-evident logic in a four-year orgy of slaughter that left Europe's entire economy badly crippled, and then came the Depression, and Hitler and yet another orgy of slaughter until the birth of NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
The U.S. is going to learn the lessons Europe did. Remember, Hitler was a highly-decorated veteran of World War I who played to traditional German values. It's not so far-fetched that a post-withdrawal U.S. could experience a real, true American Hitler. A damaged army and an economic crisis brings all sorts of crazies out of the woodwork, after all....
I don't think so. The US did not lose a million citizens in this invasion, or in Vietnam. The US never paid as high a price as the Euro nations in WWI. The Vietnamese paid the price of the US military efforts there, and 58,000 dead US soldiers is small by comparison.
The US military is suffering now, but by passing all the cost to the next generations, who is aware here?
One out of ten Iraqis has been killed or displaced by the US invasion. In a just world, the US would be paying retribution for decades. THAT would foster real resentment here in the US, but it would be just and fair, and between that and the debt from the war, just might keep the US out of such deadly misadventures for a while.
Get out, and let the chips fall where they may.
We have chaos in the housing and financial markets,
we have chaos in the oil markets, we have chaos in the
in the health care system, chaos in the educational
system, just to name a few.
Please, some one tell me, when these clowns, Dem. and
Repub. alike are going to stop worrying about chaos in
Iraq and start worrying about chaos in this country?
tubino @ 42:
Thing is, we made a slightly different mistake. The European nations still had working armies after WWI. We've broken ours. When the army gets broken, even in such a stable American nation as the USA, there's hell to pay and no money for the devil. That's why I keep reminding people of who Hitler was in his campaign. U.S. republicanism (small "r") is increasingly going to resemble Latin American governance.
Notice how Bush leans on
Hindenburg-I mean Petraeus-for support? These wars are the perfect breeding ground, when combined with outsourcing, the economic slowdown, the xenophobia aroused by the anti-immigration crowd, and the increasing decay of U.S. infrastructure to build a fascism that is American, not one that clings to Hitler as inspiration.That's what scares me about this misadventure.
No shit Bob? It took you this long to figure out that your adored Bush has been going down the wrong path?
But, the next time St. McCain is his guest Schieffer will nod his head sageously in agreement with whatever lies are told.
I alway like the old reply to the "the light at the end of the tunnel" "run it's a train"
The only time there WAS a good answer was before the illegal invasion when we said "Do NOT invade a non-agressor nation, It IS a war crime."
Juan Cole told Jim Lehrer this some four years ago.
FUCK BOB AND HIS OCCASIONAL OUTRAGE.
he's a full of shit as bush and mcAin't.
milquetoast @ 22:
Why did you narrow it down to just presidential candidates? Both, BTW, have said they will get out of Iraq. One, BTW, never supported going in.
Neither candidate has or will have the power to put an ex president on trial. Only other entities can do that, and the electorate is one entity that can demand it; collectively, we're the "Democrats" I'm talking about. Other countries are other entities that can also demand it.
The United States is not yet ruled the way you imagine. Your musings sound convincing at first read, but they're really just sneering rhetoric.
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