On GI Bill, McCain really is 'full of it'
By Steve Benen Friday May 09, 2008 9:03amA couple of weeks ago, John McCain talked about the importance of increasing the size of the U.S. military. To entice more volunteers, he said, the government should focus on incentives: “[O]ne of the things we ought to do is provide [the troops with] significant educational benefits in return for serving.”
A few days later, McCain announced that he opposes a bipartisan measure to renew and expand the GI Bill for a new generation of veterans. Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.), the leading proponent of the modernized GI Bill, called McCain out.
McCain’s argument is that if the government makes college more affordable for the troops, they might be inclined to leave the military, rather than re-enlist. Webb, who said McCain is “full of it,” has argued that a) the troops deserve better educational benefits; and b) it might help with military recruiting if people knew they could go to college after their service.
Who’s right? Faiz at TP reports on the latest Congressional Budget Office analysis, which sets the record straight.
While the report explains that troop retention will decline because some troops will take advantage of their new education benefits, the loss in retention will be entirely made up for by increased military recruits:
“Literature on the effects of educational benefits on retention suggest that every $10,000 increase in educational benefits yields a reduction in retention of slightly more than 1 percentage point. CBO estimates that S. 22 (as modified) would more than double the present value of educational benefits for servicemembers at the first reenlistment point — from about $40,000 to over $90,000 — implying a 16 percent decline in the reenlistment rate, from about 42 percent to about 36 percent. […]
“Educational benefits have been shown to raise the number of military recruits. Based on an analysis of the existing literature, CBO estimates that a 10 percent increase in educational benefits would result in an increase of about 1 percent in high-quality recruits. On that basis, CBO calculates that raising the educational benefits as proposed in S. 22 would result in a 16 percent increase in recruits.”
Yep, McCain really is full of it.
GI Bill put me through college in the 90s. It was the only decent thing Reagan did. McLame is a moron politician millionaire. Screw Him.
As our current financial meltdown continues, military service will be the ONLY avenue to higher education. Where else would we get the soldiers we need to take over the Middle East? Hope the smart ones don't get killed.
It says a helluva lot about your country, when the only way people can go to "college" is to enlist in a killing machine. Oh ya, nobody is in the military to kill people, but to further their education, cuz hey that is the way it is in every nation, isn't it? Ha!
Marcus Aurelius @ 2:
....um......question.......what the hell kind of job does everyone in the US get by going to "college" in the military? McD's requires college?
What word is a solution to earn more in one month than the whole GI bill for those considering the military, which our soldiers are currently undervalued? Blackwater.
No GI Bill
No enlistment bonuses
No educational benefits
NO STANDING ARMY!
ConcernedCanuck @ 4:
You attend the universtity or trade school of your choice and are reimbursed for tuition and living expenses.
Good thing freaks like McCrazy weren't running the government at the end of WWII. There would have been no GI Bill for returning vets and, consequently, no creation of a large middle-class in this country. Then again, with douchebags like McCrazy and the rest of his ideological bretheren on the Right, the may be just be the point, wouldn't it? I must say, I'm really getting sick of this guy. With each day I have to see his stupid mug on tv or the Internets, I become more and more repulsed and disgusted. The upside (if you want to call it that)is the reichwingers know what a weak candidate he is; they're scared to death of the prospect of this senile turd having to face off against Obama.
Correction: should read "that may just be the point...." Tucking fypos!
On GI Bill, McCain really is ‘full of it’ ... seems you guys forgot the SH in that last word.
First ad I'd like to see the Obama campaign put out against McCain - one that makes a point of saying how he has no problem of paying contractors like Blackwater billions of dollars but voted against a GI bill for vets who volunteered to serve this country. Put that ad out there and keep running it; it will be devasting for the McCrazy campaign.
The right wing hates America. The GI Bills of earlier wars gave access to careers to any number of people who could never have gotten so far without those benefits. The whole country will gain by increasing education access to our troops.
geneHUSSEIN214 @ 8:
Actually, if they hadn't done a lot of what they did after WWII, it's not out of the realm of possibility for a dictatorship in the US by at least what would be the Reagan Era. Millions of men (the WWII army was some 16 million-strong) with military training and no stake in the current affairs leads to turmoil everywhere. The Soviets treated Red Army veterans better after WWII than the US did.
Besides, most of McPapen's types would have been fascists before WWII, and then after Yamamoto struck at Pearl, they likely would have flocked to the Democrats (in the South) and the Republicans (in the North and West.) What I'm concerned about is Hitler was a decorated war veteran. If we repeat similar mistakes to Ludendorff and Hindenburg and the Weimar era regarding the Army...
Ruth @ 12:
Yep, they want to limit access to university education. I saw it as tuition rose 12% a year while I was in school and more and more students on loans and Pell grants had to drop out. Can you imagine what Chimpy would be today if he was subject to a little competition for educational advancement? He wouldn't be the "oil man", he'd be the "oil change man".
McCain's arguement makes no sense. The military, just like those of other nations are always in competition with civilian occupations. Its always been that way. This is why those benefits need to be raised. It keeps the military competative. If they do not raise them even fewer people will enlist down the road and more re-enlistees will get out. Eventually the only people that will take the military up on their offer is the worst of the worst that society has to offer. Imagine a military filled with crack junkies, meth users and other assorted criminals that don't even have a GED. McCain's opposition to raising the G.I. bill benefits will only lead to a much smaller and worse off military in the end.
Besides, there is a clear message being sent out by those that oppose the raising of G.I. bill benefits. It says to every person that is currently in or about to go into the military that when you get out the Government will toss you aside like an old shoe.
Jeez, it's not like they wouldn't just Stop Loss 'em anyway...
Joe O. @ 16:
Which is, aside from WWII, what's happened every other time. The Washington Administration had to deal with a rebellion over it.
Marcus Aurelius @ 2:
at what level of education would you shut off that hope for survival?
ConcernedCanuck @ 3:
Exactly and one of the few places in the US that health care is provided weak as it is for GI's The United States has decayed into an international bully. I would be willing to bet a certain current president displayed many of those tendencies in his youth urging others to beat up the little kids and take their lunch money or oil if they had it
42% less 16% is 26%, not 36% as you state in the article.
As a pacifist, I'm not especially interested in increasing the number of new recruits for the war machine.
I am interested in doing right by those who make that choice, however. And denying them these benefits is just plain wrong. The old G.I. Bill gave my Korean War veteran father the chance to attend college after his service. He was able to become the first person in his family to earn a degree. That degree provided his family with an income that allowed me to go to college and come out debt free, and then provide for my family.
There should be better ways to get our young people a college education than to have them carry a gun in our imperialist adventures. But if we're going to send them there, we should look after them when they get home.
Sadly, that's rarely been part of the equation. We tend to use them up and them kick them to the curb.
Nice job, Senator. You seem to forget who paid for your education.
Boy, this educational benefits appears to be only the beginning. Now, as we see from this article that if you don't survive Bush's wars to collect on your G.I. benefits you can at least look forward to being cremated with your pet dog Fido!
US Makes Changes To Cremations For Slain Troops
"The Pentagon is recommending changes in the handling of troops' remains, after it was revealed that a crematorium contracted by the military handles both human and animal cremations.
A military official said there have been no instances or charges that human and pet remains were mixed."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/us-makes-changes-to-crema_n_101...
This kind of shit makes my blood boil. This guy calls himself a war hero, but he would throw everyone else who has served his or her country under the bus. Any GI or vet who would vote for this clown are just plain stupid.
R Warsager @ 21:
It's a 16% decline from the current rate. Not 16% from 42%, but 16% of 42%.
I am hoping Obama will consider Jim Webb as his running mate (if he is the nominee). Webb is the counter-balance to Obama's strengths. The two of them would be a dream ticket. Webb doesn't hesitate to call the Repugs on their bullshit.
Joe O. @ 23:
if a servicemans family wishes thier son or daughters body cremated and his hers family pets been cremated i see no objections for thier ashes to be put in the same container or grave , after most animals are better then most humans , and have a hell of a lot more loyality to thier masters then any who object to it, as for myself i have asked to be cremated and my dog king who sets on my computer room shelf mixed with my ashes and poured into the ohio river together so we can both go to new orleans together , its better then rotting in some flucking grave!
Debby Hussain @ 26:
I think that is a great idea. Besides, with Webb's military experience, he would make a fine addition to Obama who lacks in military experience and would make a good liason to the military over all.
may have been mentioned, and i don't know the details, but yesterday rachel maddow reported that this bill is also being held up by BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS...
go figure...
What really pisses me off the most about McBush. Is he is on the public dole from cradle to grave. The taxpayer has always paid for his health care. And paid for his college education to. This man has no idea what it takes to live without depending on goverment to take care of him.
tyree @ 27:
From that individual perspective I can see your point. If a person wishes to be cremated with their pet then that is their choice. However, from that article it doesn't look like the troops had that luxury to choose. Who knows, they may have been thrown in with some unknown person's pet cat named Fluffy and stuck in a urn or urns. Boy, just when you think that the Government couldn't be any more cheap they come up with something like this. How much do you want to bet that a Republican came up with that idea. I'd say the odds are pretty good.
Haze @ 30:
That is basically ALL politicians. How long has Hillary been on taxpayer welfare? Obama? McCain? Colin Powell? Donald Rumsfeld? Dickhead Cheney? Webb? Pelosi? Reid? Dean? It's disgusting, but these are SUPPOSED to be the idiots with the solutions to all the problems. Ya, right.
Not to worry.
mcwar will just start a draft.
Joe O. @ 31:
i am assumeing thier pet has allready passed on and was cremated and given to his her family for disposal later, thier is no way to verify unless you see the actual cremation that the remais are actualy your pets, guess you have to just go on faith that it is!
getalife @ 33:
To really get this country mobilized for war like some of ya'll think McPapen would do requires 2 years if everything goes off without a hitch. Looking at the way politicians take something simple and complicate it, maybe four years. Either way, it would be pretty damn obvious to Iran that the war would be coming. It took eight carrier wings and an army designed to maul the Red Army to beat Saddam. About 13 years later, that army can't control Iraq very well.
McPapen, if he tries to do this, would telegraph it so blatantly that it would hit the fan.
he is not just "full of it". If you examine the reasoning behind McCain's position it can easily be described as an attempt to trap these kids into the military. McCain got the same GI Bill that I did..the Vietnam one. It paid for 4 years of my undergraduate study and without it I would not be where I am today. Now, if troop retention is the issue then they can bring back the "Tuition Assistance" program. In that program an active duty soldier would go to evening classes at a local college or in the outreach programs from the University of Maryland on base and take college credit courses. The soldier only paid for the books as the tuition and fees were picked up by Uncle Sugar. So McCain ought to love the program as you have to be on active duty to partake in it. I was able to accrue about 45 hours of credits using this program in millitary assignments in Germany, Texas and Oklahoma. There was a program in Vietnam as well but it was only at major bases and I was stuck in a shit-hole that did not have the option. In any case, McCain PUT YOUR DAMN PATRIOTISM WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS and give the kids a shot at the pie you are asking them to fight for.
Joe O. @ 16:
I believe the word you're looking for Joe is cannon fodder.....grandpa simpson wants more soldiers it seems. But I think he's looking for them to die in battle so he doesn't have to worry about the coming home part
Where I live, if you want to go to college, you get a student loan. You don't join the military as an excuse. That's pathetic. All that patriotic troop support drivel is just that, if the only reason you are there is to supposedly further your education. Not everyone requires to have a college education. That pure unaldulterated phallacy was shot full of holes years ago. It is a waste of time and money for an overwhelming majority of young people. Colleges and universities have turned into healthy businesses, instead of places to learn skills to get jobs. There is a huge shortage of blue collar workers in almost every industrial nation. College will not train you for those jobs. Whining about the government losing jobs overseas does not solve the problem, if you can't find anyone in your own nation that is willing to actually work. The problem is, everyone THINKS going to college will get them that great "office" job that doesn't exist. But whatever, keep up the cool scam of enlisting to further your career goals.
This country has a terrible record of taking care of their veterns. We didn't do shit for them untill WW2. Now when someone wants to give back to our GI's for the service they have given this country, McCain say's they haven't given enough. Some of these men and women have paid with their blood and limbs. They have given their all, and yet we have people like McCain and blue dog dems who say NO because they haven't served long enough or it would cost to much. It really shows how these people who supported this worthless war really feel about the people who have fought it for them. A paux on all their house's.
That's a real war hero for ya, screw the troops.
He got his so damn the enlisted men. All they need them for is to be statistics.
This will be a great issue to bash him with. How, in all good conscience can a veteran be willing to cut benefits for those who are willing to serve, is beyond me. This will surely cost him votes. And it should.
You folks must be brain dead or just not very bright. You are all arguing like a) there is no GI benefits today and that McCain is blocking an attempt to enact a GI bill - this bill is to extend them, and he has argued in favor of that. THIS bill is being held up by McCain and many democrats because democratic leadership once again (like their "child" healthcare initiative) want to add a bunch of obnoxious pork and enact hand-tying regulations to an otherwise good cause- Orwellian doublespeak. Take those out of there and the bill would sail through.
And the people that are stating that the only way to go to college is to enlist in the "war" machine? What are you smoking? College is filled with non-military, and there is so much aid available, and so many state schools available that anyone wanting to go to college can easily do so.
The current crop of Republicans (and a few others in DC) really are ‘third generational’ in the classic sense,
absolute typical example of 3rd gen losers and failed fascists.
They cant win wars against tribal or urban insurgents, they cant win the various GWO?s like drugs or poverty or education,
no matter that they spend 100s billions
deliberately !losing these various 'wars'.The Republicans cant even restore one of Americas large cities New Orleans and get the willing population back into decent housing, go check out google earth or maps and look at the amount of blue tarpaulins on houses and buildings in 2008 and tens of thousands of ruined automobiles piled up on waste ground.
bill.w.stl @ 41:
you obviously haven't been paying very close attention . This admin has cut the existing med benefits for our troops. Such as mental health benefits (you know, all the guys coming back with serious head trauma). So please, explain that one for me?
I remember this issue with the old GI bill. The GAO showed that for ever dollar used by veterans for education was received back by 2 to 1 because veterans had a higher salary which in return put them in a higher tax bracket.
bill.w.stl @ 41:
First off I can tell you haven't looked at Webbs bill, and second, I can tell you have never served if you think that the only reason men and women join the military is for schooling. By the way do you have any links to all this pork you seem to see in this bill?
bill.w.stl @ 41:
I rest my case
take your pick of source: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=GI+bill%2C+blue+dog+democrats...
this, from politico:
[...]
Many Blue Dogs argued the GI benefits package was tantamount to creating a new entitlement program and thus should be offset, an argument that did not sit well with Hinchey, who has long opposed the Iraq war.
“This is a slap in the face to our servicemen and women who courageously risk their lives each day in Iraq and in Afghanistan,” Hinchey said.
“The idea that these benefits should be subject to pay-go is ridiculous,” Hinchey said in an interview. Instead, Hinchey argued that providing returning soldiers with a college education is an investment that will benefit the country far more than paying for reconstruction in Iraq.
But Hinchey didn’t stop there.
“How can the Blue Dog coalition possibly say that an expansion of education benefits is too costly when their votes to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to fight in Iraq violate the same pay-as-you-go rules they claim to so deeply respect?”
Hinchey said he didn’t care if his comments caused any tension in the caucus.
“I don’t care about push-back [from these comments],” he said. “I am happy to have push-back.”
UPDATE: Several Blue Dog members did indeed push back on Hinchey's comments.
“As a group which includes a number of veterans, the Blue Dogs are unwavering in support of our brave service men and women who have risked their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.), the group's co-chairman for communications.
"We want to pass a GI Bill that is fully paid for so that there is absolutely no chance that these important benefits for our veterans will be cut due to budgetary constraints in the future. We support this program; we just want to make sure that it is done in a responsible manner."
well, if you put it THAT way...
In a way there are benefits to just becoming an observer of this freaking Folly known as humanity.
You can easily see if your impartial no one really knows WTF they are doing.
ConcernedCanuck @ 38:
So what is your point? Other than to start your usual Canada vs USA crap, I see none. If you are poor, and can not afford college, the GI Bill is a good deal, provided you do not get your ass blown up in the process. It was a good deal 20 years ago and is a good deal now. I am a liberal Democrat, but I will not apologize for my military service. It is a source of pride. Don't piss us off, Canuck, and maybe we'll let you come visit the Stanley Cup.
The John McCain presented by the press is a MYTH. With very few exceptions, his voting record and career is GOP Party line. He has flipped on taxes, immigration and campaign finance reform. There is nothing in his positions that demostrates any support for the troops. He now supports torture, supports repeated deployments, supports endless War. He opposes increasing VA benefits, has not fought for better health care for vets or for the equipment soldiers need. He opposes the new GI Bill. He opposed S-Chip for children, yet has been on government health care his entire life. He cheated on his first wife when she became an invalid to romance the heiress and has lived on her wealth ever since. He has a reactionary temper and isn't even liked by Senators of his own Party (although that could be construed as a plus when you consider who those people are). The sooner the myth is dispelled, the better!
sign me up for Blackwater U .... I hear they're going to have one hell of a Rollerball team
they don't talk like that in WEST ST.LOUIS, ferrofluid...
lots of money in those parts...
Mike @ 49:
One trouble with GI Bill is in the recent case of the MN nation Guard unit that was wrongly credited one day short of the qualifying period to get them their educational benefits, which would have helped them improve skills and or get back into civilian life after a combat tour and no doubt some PTSD.
bitter hussein katy @ 52:
all fancy pants and shine, reality is chewing tobacca and spitting ;)
There might have been MUCH LESS of a recruitment problem, except Bush has demonstrated that you CAN'T absolutely trust your government to not start wars that are foolish, bloody, unjustified, and counterproductive. The folly of the Iraq War is what has given the military its initial serious injury. It would be completely appropriate to drive a paddywagon up to the Inauguration, and when the new president is sworn in, haul Bush and Cheney away for the harm they have done to this country. And keep Guantanamo going indefinitely, for those two and their enablers, who have destroyed the U.S. military, and much, much more.
The one that really got me was when they wanted their signing bonus's back. Because the troops got injured and couldn't fulfill their commitment. That one was the straw that broke the camels back. Our troops have been getting dicked around by this admin in so many ways. Not just in their educational benefits. When I got out, part of my ed benefits, was to be used within 10 years or you lost it. This is wrong. It should be good for the rest of your life.
Mike @ 49:
I always love when people think they know why people do what they have to do. Untill you have walked in that persons shoes, don't be so quick to judge. I'm glad you in Canada didn't have to serve to get your education
'course, it could be "bill w. in st.louis"... please excuse...
Mike @ 1:
The GI Bill predates Reagan by a whole bunch.
Sad to see how few people understand how a bill moves through congress.
McCain=Bush...don't make me laugh. Only the congenitally stupid or pathologically dishonest make such a claim.
ferrofluid @ 53:
Don't confuse my support for the GI Bill with support for the REMFs that administer the thing, or the REMFs that squander their sacrifice.The REMF in Chief and Vice REMF are what's wrong with the picture.
bitter hussein katy @ 58:
even if the butler answer the door with a posh accent, doesnt mean the knobs upstairs are... ;)
John @ 59:
McCain=Bush.... Mom let you out to go trolling in the park again I see.
John @ 59:
Check your history, the Army college fund and Montgomery GI Bill were REagan's wayof re-populating the military.
ferrofluid @ 54:
well, that would be the other end of the spectrum... i prefer the middle...
chewing and spitting is a HUGE turn-off... not to mention health hazard...
John @ 59:
Tell us the difference John.
Mike @ 63:
St. Raygun had the annoying habit of losing troops to stupid military blunders, as in Lebanon and elsewhere.
Moral of the story never let a senile POTUS play at being CiC and or general.
diamondmc @ 45:
I agree. I joined for a whole host of reasons. One reason was for the training, another was to possibly obtain a Government security clearance, and still others were more family related. The G.I. bill was an after thought for me but after I got out I was glad that it was there. I went to the college's VA and found that they were really strict on what classes I could and could not take. I even had to bring my semester schedule in so that they could look at and approve it. During the time I used my G.I. bill I was able to get an A.A.S. Today, I doubt many veterans can even get that with the cost of tuition as it is. It sure beats what many people that never have served have to deal with though. They get out of college and owe, from what I have seen anywhere from $40,000 or higher in student loans.
Which in a circular way leads us back to McSenile and a possible horrendous future...
getalife @ 65:
A whole bunch, hmmmmmmmmmm? Yeah, you'd be right about that.
It was FDR who started the GI Bill, along with the New Deal( this was prior to the Gi Bill) and the GOP have been trying to dismantle them ever since. Same with the Great Society(Johnson) the Gop have been trying to dismantle that as well.
Joe O. @ 67:
which is another way of saying 1st class citizen compared to the 2nd class civilian losers, bereft of Federal benefits.
One of my friends growing up, raised by a single Mom, Jehovas Witness, was drafted by Nixxon, went to Vietnam as a Conscientious Objector became a medic, came home with one leg blown off.
He's now a pediatrician in Washington D.C.
G.I. Bill.
Plain and simple, republicans hate Americans.
I was the first person in my family to go to college. I got there by way of the GI Bill, after serving in the Air Force from 71 to 75.
The only possible reason I can conceive, for McCain's opposition to Webb's new GI Bill, is that McCain wants to come up with his own "new" GI Bill in order to take the spotlight away from a Democratic senator and the Democratic party, and to play up McCain's "hero card."
As a veteran I would trust only one of these men to deliver an honest and workable proposal for a new GI Bill.
I'll let you figure out which one I would trust, from the following points.
• Both McCain and Webb went to the US Naval Academy -- McCain was Navy, Webb "is" a Marine. (I says "is" because as a veteran I've never known a US Marine who ever quit being a Marine, even when they left the service. The Marines are different from the rest of our military branches.)
• John McCain's father and grandfather (paternal) were both Admirals in the Navy.
• John McCain managed to get through the Naval Academy graduating 894th out of a class of 899.
• Jim Webb, well, this gets kind of lengthy. But it's very much worth knowing, so I'll quote from Senator Webb's website bio:
The election deck of cards contains
an age, race, experience, hope, change, religion, finance, spouse, donor, attractive, ugly, fit, fat, fashion and anger management card.
They are are playable. The one with the best hand in November wins.
I say Hope and change is the royal flush.
--
"Save Trees. Print only when necessary."
as one whos had his veterans medical bennifts cut off by the assholes who control the veterans administration i feel like i was shit on by this country, they are screwing the old ww2 korean war vets now out of the very programs we were promissed so that the money can now be buying new arms and legs for the iraq afgan war vets , now when we really need our medicines they are denied to us, my sentiments on the va is fugem!
sorry forgot to include the viet nam vets!
question, somewhat OT...
would mccain's status as a son and grandson of US admirals have offered him any kind of preferencial treatment at that POW camp?
i can't help but wonder that his captors would have treated him differently because of that... surely it could have been WORSE, but i wonder if the VC wanted to keep him around as some kind of prize, or other game piece...
i'm just not sure how HE qualifies for the "hero" tag more than any other POW...
sure, he "decided" to stay behind, but would he even have been offered a release if not for pa and grandpa?
i mean no disrespect... just curious...
bitter hussein katy @ 75:
'Crown Prince' was his Vietnamese code name, says it all really.
Angry Vietnam ex POW vets call him 'songbird'
I am aware that the need for education is great, having plowed my way through these posts.
The GI benefits that you argue are already in place, and have been for 50 years. It's good to eduate yourself, as we typ's do, so your are better able to pick your battles, and not your nose. That said Webb is great .
It is common knowledge that McCain was offered a deal by his captors to get home from Vietnam earlier, due to his father's service, but chose to stay with his men...five years is a long time. Your moral certainty, might be tempered in the future by getting the facts. It is sad to see the parameters of you decrepit attacks. Who is really at liberty to judge? Yet you do so freely.
A simple google of these topics would prepare the reader with some background ,from which to blog. We typ's do take the time to do these simple tasks, so that we are not victim to the bloviating of the fringe.
bitter hussein katy @ 75:
I imagine it had some significant effect while at the Hilton.
I also imagine it had an equally significant effect on McCain's ability to graduate 894th out of 899 at the Naval Academy. Those slots at the end of the line are quite often reserved for fuck-ups that couldn't make it through the program under normal circumstances -- people who have been born with the unearned opportunity of having a "legacy admission" to an institution that is otherwise based on an honor code of competition, achievement and honesty.
When it comes to a matter of depending on someone, and the choices are McCain and Webb, there simply is no question.
The Iraq/Afghanistan vets -- as well as all other vets -- will have their issues much better served by supporting Webb.
McCain's argument is supremely and classically elitist-- but I'm not expecting anyone in our media to notice that.
He's saying-- literally-- that if the middle class and the poor have enough money to attend college, they will be less inclined to do what their 'betters' want them to do. This is the same sentiment Reagan expressed when he slashed funding to the state university system, commenting, 'why would I want to fund something that makes people more likely to disagree with me?'.
It's the same sentiment that their conservative predecessors expressed when they talked about the working class as the "great beast" that must never be allowed too much freedom or comfort, lest they become "unmanageable".
McCain's argument is the *definition* of elitism.
Billy Shears @ 78:
So very curious that McCain was the driving force behind the 'sealing up' and non disclosure of the Vietnam war MIA POW records, does he have something to hide !?
Theres a lot of ex POWs and families of MIAs that believe he has something nasty in his closet, hiding and shying away from the light of public disclosure.
McCain after doing five years as a POW and returning alive to a privileged lifestyle and fast tracked career into DC,
should know that open disclosure is the only way to settle the ghosts and memories of ex POWs and MIA stories, they suffered badly due to his obstructions, and his literal face to face anger and obscenities at family members of MIAs.
Typical White Person @ 77:
Education costs a bit more than it did 50 years ago. The GI Bill has been upgraded several times during its history -- which I'm sure you know, from googling. The bill needs to be updated now to meet the current educational financial realities in order to be effective in its purpose and intent. In short, our returning Iraq/Afghanistan vets can't currently afford to go to a public university on what they now receive from the GI Bill.
Another thing I'm sure that you've already googled is the fact that results of the GI Bill, over the course of the program's history, has found that the country has netted a return of $7 for every $1 invested in the GI Bill.
Keep googling, friend.
this is an excellent conversation, with a MUST HEAR audio clip:
SAM SEDER TALKS TO PROFESSOR PHILIPPE SANDS ABOUT AMERICA’S TORTURE POLICY Listen Here
One day before his testimony to the House Judiciary Committee Phillipe Sands reports that he has proof that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld made a policy of torture. THis includes a clip of John McCain admitting torture caused him to write false confessions- so moved was Sands he testified to the Judiciary Committee of hearing this clip on AAR!
the mccain clip comes in towards the end, at just after 15:30... worth the wait...
you need no additional report to know that mcain't was talking out his ass.
Billy Shears @ 81: