Verdict: Wexler Promises To Keep After Rove In Siegelman Case
By Nicole Belle Wednesday May 14, 2008 8:31am
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The problem with pursuing justice with the Bush administration is the utter lack of respect for the rule of law that they exhibit regularly. In the case of the prosecution and incarceration of former Alabama governor Don Siegelman, Karl Rove initially told the House Judiciary Committee that he would only speak to them in private, not under oath and with no transcript. Then he changed his mind and said he'd only respond to their questions in writing.
Well, that's just not good enough for HJC member Rep. Robert Wexler (and frankly, it shouldn't be good enough for anyone. Can you imagine telling a judge that you're not going to come in to testify in a case, but he can ask you questions in writing?) and he told host Dan Abrams and Don Siegelman that no matter what obstacle the White House throws in his way, he'll keep pursuing justice for Siegelman.
We would much prefer Mr. Rove voluntarily agreed to appear before the House Judiciary Committee, as would any other American citizen. But my view is that if he refuses to come voluntarily, we must first subpoena him, and if he refuses to honor the subpoena then the full House of Representatives must hold Mr. Rove in Contempt of Congress. And then we must ask the Attorney General to enforce the Contempt of Congress subpoena or citation. And if the Attorney General refuses to do so, which Mr. Mukasey said previously before the Judiciary Committee that he would, then I believe, reluctantly, we need to literally uphold the checks and balances that this administration has so abused and then we need to go the extraordinary step of issuing an Inherent Contempt of Congress.
The full segment available online at MSNBC.
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We would much prefer Mr. Rove voluntarily agreed to appear before the House Judiciary Committee, as would any other American citizen. But my view is that if he refuses to come voluntarily, we must first subpoena him, and if he refuses to honor the subpoena then the full House of Representatives must hold Mr. Rove in Contempt of Congress. And then we must ask the Attorney General to enforce the Contempt of Congress subpoena or citation. And if the Attorney General refuses to do so, which Mr. Mukasey said previously before the Judiciary Committee that he would, then I believe, reluctantly, we need to literally uphold the checks and balances that this administration has so abused and then we need to go the extraordinary step of issuing an Inherent Contempt of Congress.
Which will take what? 20-30 years?
Given a continuation of democratic majorities in congress the walls of this bush facade will crumble and some of these people who have flaunted the law for 8 years will pay
Wexler is a REAL politician of the old school. One of the few remaining reasons why I still have hope here in SoFla. Keep on Rove's ass!!
konchster @ 2:
I pray that you are right. I hope they get more than a nasty letter from Waxman. I think they will hide behind this executive privilige BS and the right wing supreme court will uphold it.
I don't think Dan let Wexler finish his threat. Inherent Contempt of Congress means that they send the Sergeant-at-Arms out to arrest Rove and bring him before Congress, sit him down and make him answer questions and then toss his pasty ass in jail.
Oh, for Rove to be incarcerated, now that spring is here...Browning, right?
debit @ 5:
From your mouth to God's ear!
I like Wexler and I even donated (from Michigan no less) but if you mean to dispatch a snake you best strike the head.
Impeach Bush!
This is inherent contempt. Rove needs to be arrested and dragged before the committee in an orange jumpsuit and shackles.
Impeach Bush. Then send him to the Hague.
I can only hope they do it.
debit @ 5:
It also means that if Rove were to be "convicted" by the chamber, a presidential pardon would not be available (see Jurney v. MacCracken in which a postmaster is owned).
The thought of the SaA tracking down Rove and arresting him kind of gives me wood.
"...he would only speak to them in private, not under oath and with no transcript.."
Dear Mr. Wexler, please just stop being polite to Mr. Rove.
Bluntly say, "Just who does this creep think he is?" When someone blatantly shows that much contempt for the rule of law and that little respect for Congress, they deserve special condemnation.
Does the SaA carry a nightstick?
If so, would he mind getting it a little dirty?
Please?
Let's stop wasting all this money...there IS a war on ya know...and cut to the chase.
Sargeant of Arms...arrest that fat bastard and take him right to Leavenworth...do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
We get precisely what we deserve -- more often than not, in the form of what we allow.
It is not enough to merely have laws -- you must enforce the law on those who have no intention of following it.
In this particular case you must bring the law up to those who presume to be above it.
If this is not done then it is clear evidence of the state of corruption of American justice -- not by Rove and his friends, but by those who are responsible for seeing that justice is done.
Excellent. Absolutely excellent. It's been long past time since Rove first started exhibiting "above-any-law" behavior; it is definitely time for an "Inherent Contempt" citation. Drag his happy, fat ass out of that Baskin-Robbins and get him to the Congress floor.
Paul @ 9:
To better understand the mindset of the Right-Wing Rovian political reasoning, read Glenn Greenwalds book "Great American Hypocrites". It give a very concise view inside the minds of the Republican Party members who say one thing and do another. I thought I understood them, but Glenn enables you to see the science of what they do to manipulate the press and the small-brained talk radio listeners.
The first rule of politics is this;
You don't make enemies. Everybody is your friend. You never know; who is going to come back and get you.
Rove thinks that he is so clever; but, he burned a lot of bridges.
Don Siegelman is one of many people that hold a grudge against Karl Rove.
Now that the blood is in the water; people are going to come out of the woodworks to take a swipe at Karl.
This is only the beginning; we haven't seen nothing yet.
Maybe this most recent loss by the Repugs of three special elections, all in GOP strongholds, all won by Dems, has given the Dems the needed boost to know that they can get more pro-active now.
Or maybe they're realizing that if they wait until Jan., there may be nothing left.
I still have little faith that this gang will allow a peaceful transfer of power. Keep in mind that Bush already passed an edict giving him the right to suspend government and impose martial law, including suspending elections. He has his own mercenary army, he has had detention camps (ostensibly for illegal aliens) built here in the US, and he has suspended habeus corpus.
One "terrorist" attack in the US, followed by a strike at Iran and a suspension of the election, and anyone protesting will be rounded up. If people start getting rounded up, how many Americans would lay down and allow it? How many would rise up and fight?
Anyone still telling themselves that "it can't happen here" is wilfully ignoring the evidence in front of their eyes, including members of Congress.
Alice (once a Naderite always…) @ 8:
Bush is more like the tail who believes its a head. If Rove isn't the head he's #2 (making Cheney numero uno).
reminiscent of "...a lot of sound and fury..." and where does it all lead? we've been down this road too many times. It can only lead to another book and an assignment as a panelist on fox news. incarceration or trial or expose. don't get your hopes up.
If any private citizen refused to answer any summons, from any judge they would have the police knock their doors down and be thrown in hand cuffs right now and hauled off to jail! There is so much wrong with our legal system that lets elected officials do as they damn well please!This applies to dems and repukes alike!
Thank you Congressman for your honesty and your pledge to preserve and protect Our Constitution and People.
Karl Rove is a criminal whose only allegiance is to Criminals.
And keep a close watch and file on this very sick man... BUSH
Just yesterday, He just compared Democrats To Nazi-Appeasers
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/15/bush-obama-nazi-appeaser/
We know who the real Nazi Appeasers were:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8795795223394289910
The Next case to look into:
Maintain and document files on Bush Gutting the Espionage Oversight Board in March 2008.
Its worse than Watergate.
It is becoming apparent that Bush and Cheney have now evolved into a Espionage Crime mob operating from the White House.
Their only allies left are domestic and foreign criminals.
Marines, Soldiers, Navy Seals and Veterans are tracking their moves.
Please, no American President will ever see the Hague, even if they're the most despicable person in America. The precident it would set would be terrible, even for other world leaders, not just power-mad despots, heads of facist states or war-mongering idiots . . . oh wait.
bigironal @ 21:
At one time, a long time ago, we decided to apply the law equally to the King of England, and look where that got us -- our own country (at least for a while).
I once sued one of Newt's little inbred college chums. He sent his other college bud, the Judge, a letter saying he didn't feel the need to respond or appear in court. As corrupt as the judge eventually turned out to be, he smacked him a new one -- and bubba damned well appeared in court the next time. Yet out of 3 subpoenas issued his way -- not one person ever showed in court or for their depositions. This is the arrogance of the NeoCon mindset. They needn't bother -- they are above all that petty legal stuff meant for the peons. The judge was already bought and paid for via a previous dismissal of felony criminal charges.
If I had my way, Rove would be served with a subpoena duces tecum, and when he failed to appear with the requested records, would be arrested, handcuffed, frogmarched into court/congress in an orange jumpsuit, and then jailed for contempt -- exactly like any other citizen would be. These people are simply employees of the citizens of the US -- not Gods, and certainly not immune from the laws of this country. But they think they are...
And I would really like to get recently "retired" US District Attorney Greg Miller, Dana Jill Simpson, and a few other Florida Panhandle and Southern Alabama GOP operatives in there as well. In my opinion, there is a whole load of shit going on down there that they are frantically trying to conceal. This isn't partisan -- it's criminal.
But the judges are already bought and paid for...
rooth hussein @ 18:
Your scenario requires the cooperation of the Army. If the Army was willing to go along with such a scenario; it already would have happened. The Army comes from all walks of life. It's truly a cross section of America. We are talking about your nephew or your neighbors daughter. The Army is on the side of the American people; they feel the same way, about this crap, as you and me.
Dr. Know @ 25:
I think that i will never see
A sight as lovely and yet to be
Of Rove diminished before the Judiciary
Committee to testify
About how and when and where and why
The Constitution was his to defy
The explanations could be brief
Of who exactly was the thief
Of our Constitutional guarantees
And who decided to torture detainees
Would he come clean on Habeas?
I doubt it 'cause he's such an ass.
Notreallyabadguy addresses the steps to conviction and ends with: "Which will take what? 20-30 years?"
Doctormidnight adds: "It also means that if Rove were to be “convicted” by the chamber, a presidential pardon would not be available (see Jurney v. MacCracken in which a postmaster is owned)".
Let's hope for the compromise to be the timing. Rove gets what he deserves but the process avoids any possible presidential pardon by Bush. So the real action needs to occur after Jan. 20, 2009.
I really hope they keep this going, Rove is guilty as hell. Is it possible to keep this investigation going until a Dem president(hopefully) is in place so that a presidential pardon would not be a factor
Dr. Know @ 25:
I have this strange theory. I think these people make all their money by laundering drug money. I think this is why they have such strong connections to these shady churches. Most religions are boarding up congregations. Now days, people have to choose between feeding their kids or supporting their community church. These Southern born-agains seem to be awash in money. I think they drop the drug money in a church, under the auspices of individual contributions. They kick the money into campaign contributions to get elected. Then they give out government contracts to make the money legit.
Congress members have to know someone in the CIA that can rendition his ass to a secret jail.
gussmith @ 29:
Right, take the time to develop a good sound case and then send him to the "pokey" on the 21st.
As far as all of this Bush corruption affects the coming elections, no incumbent is safe. Not the wimpy Democrats certainly. They saw the 2006 vote as an expression for changed yet they have capitulated on all the Bush crimes. A position in Congress is a mighty trust to do the right thing regardless of personal sacrifice. Instead all the parasites have only been concerned with reelection. So anyone in office running for reelection does not get my vote.
I Like Pie @ 31:
I think you may be right. If it is not happening on a grand scale it certainly must be happening on some level. It is just too workable a scam to have been ignored.
gussmith @ 34:
You need to study up on what has been happening for the last 7+ years and devote yourself to getting a full democratic majority in both the house and senate along with a democratic WH.
Well, part of this is Congress' fault. It's LONG PAST TIME that the Sergeant at Arms be dispatched to arrest some of these scofflaws and frog march them before an investigative committee in cuffs.
gussmith @ 34:
I vote we melt all the guns on the planet.
It would seem that i can't get enough votes to support my position.
I guess that makes me a coward.
Stop with the ridiculous dare and double dare nonsense!! Why waste time?? Why not go directly to inherent contempt of Congress??
FROGMARCH the treasonous fat fuck! I will personally travel to DC and party like its 1999 the day they throw that POS in the clink. If he is jailed in the Congress (they have a lil jail on site there) he can not be presidentially pardoned. If there is any Gods I pray they toss his repugnant ass in jail NOW!
xoites (One White Vote for Obama) defends Constitution @ 38:
Ga Mornin x.
I left you something on last nights music thread.
Have a great day.
And hand in hand with the drug business is the business of weapons.
You know what I've always wondered? Whenever you see pictures of really, really poor countries in the midst of chaos and war, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Columbia, etc., ever notice how, no matter how poor they seem to be, they always have weapons and they never seem to run out of bullets?
If they don't have enough money for food or medicine or electricity or clothes for their kids, how is it that there seems to be a never-ending supply of bullets for the guns they're always shooting into the air, and at each other, and at us?
Where do all those bullets come from? Who profits from this never-ending business of spreading death and destruction?
Quick answer: the US is the major manufacturer of weapons in the world. Follow the money. What American corporations manufacture these weapons and which politicians do they support?
We know that Bush I & Reagan happily trafficked in weapons to drug lords and terrorists to fund their illegal wars and, I suspect, their campaigns. But who profits from it now?
And this asshole, also guilty of treason in the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame, enjoys a comfortable post as a "pundit" for Fox "News". Bring back the Fairness Doctrine or its equivalent, please, so the criminal Right can no longer use the PUBLIC'S airwaves to disseminate its lies and propaganda.
Ron, you just don't get it. A position in Congress is not "us versus them". We are electing statesmen and women who must inherently possess attributes to carry out democracy. Anyone can do a numerical count of how many 'us versus thems' there are. The job is to reach compromises and consensus through negotiations. You know, statesmen. The position is not to capitulate and worse, to be fearful of another branch of government. They have all lost their way.
Just remember that the 28% of americans that still support Bush/Cheney/Rove are the majority of gun owners in the nation. If their precious leaders get arrested, they'll just come out and kill us all.
31 I Like Pie Says:
Funny you should mention that...
Another favorite is the highway toll booths of America. Check out the prosecution of Tom Noe from Ohio for a run-through on how money "could be" laundered through the cash cow that is the Florida turnpike system -- and the brutal death of Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) investigator Ray Lemme in July 2003.
Tom Noe gets 27 months
Tom Noe gets 18 years
Then there are lotteries... And morally bankrupt churches...
Karl Rove initially told the House Judiciary Committee that he would only speak to them in private, not under oath and with no transcript. Then he changed his mind and said he’d only respond to their questions in writing.
Just like the do it at Gitmo, right Karl?
Lets just write him strongly worded letter and call it good
My Haircutter is Russian. She grew up in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (cccp). She believes that the Communist government of her youth could have learned lots of tricks from the current American government. I think it's worse now because we're SUPPOSED to be a democracy and we have so much more to lose. At least they admitted they were commies..
xoites (One White Vote for Obama) defends Constitution @ 35:
gussmith @ 44:
No, you don't get it. We need a strong majority to override the obstructionism of the republicans and vetoes of the WH.
44 gussmith Says:
Not in a looooong time. Let me fix that:
I Like Pie @ 31:
ILP--Thanks for bringing this up here; I have thought about this myself as well. As a recovering addict who has not fully embraced the higher power/God thing, I found that even open AA/NA meetings are NOT the best place to discuss these thoughts, however.
I don't dwell on this, but there sure seem to be lots of cozy relationships between law enforcement types and relatively large landowners in my area (rural Palm Beach Co, FL). Lots of big SUVs, boats, etc, and BIG churches being constructed while many houses continue to be foreclosed on.
Not accusing anyone of wrongdoing (yet), but thanks for at least making me feel I'm not so delusional.
Why even subpoena Rove? Everyone knows he's guilty, right?
xoites (One White Vote for Obama) defends Constitution @ 28:
That's just beautiful. Wow, who knew Joyce Kilmer would be so timely--
dennis @ 54:
Rendition him.
Ron @ 56:
Torture the shit out of him.
We want him to talk, just not on Fox News and Newsweek, right? There are only certain things we want him to say, and his opinions on the elections sure as hell aren't one of them.
Dr. Know @ 46:
I think FDOT is the place where they hack into the Florida voter registration system and add votes from the registered non-voters to the county totals wherever they need them...no muss,no fuss
Just a theory
What actions have the Alabama courts, prosecutors and attorney general taken on this case? Any? If not, why not?
Rove should have people coming at him from all directions and I'm starting to think that no one can touch any of these criminals.
emphasa @ 45:
Just take comfort in knowing that these folks are easily fooled.
CafeenMan @ 19:
I said the head. Bush has no brain, but he is the head.
fastfeat @ 53:
You know what is really bad about being paranoid. Every time, I put on my tin-foil hat; George Bush proves my suspicions right. A few months ago, one of the CIA extraordinary rendition planes crashed in Mexico. The Mexican Government said it was loaded with cocaine. It never made it into the mainstream news. I don't think these CIA flights are carrying prisoners. I think it is just a smokescreen to bypass customs. One thing that was kinda interesting about the Taliban was the fact that they decided to rid their country of opium. Since the downfall of the Taliban, Afghanistan is having record harvests of opium. I don't think we went to Afghanistan to find Bin Laden. I think we went their to protect the heroine trade. I know this is a horrible thing to say; but, then again, we are talking about Bush. I wouldn't put anything past him. I also am reminded of the Iran-Contra Scandal. A lot of allegations were passed about Bush Sr. smuggling in crack-cocaine, using CIA flights. Just a side note to this. The Rodney King riots have some interesting background that is always ignored by the mainstream media. The San Jose Mercury ran a story about the CIA smuggling in crack-cocaine, a few days before the riots. The black community in L.A. was ground zero for the crack-cocaine epidemic. Everyone had lost a family member to violence, drugs, or prison. The CIA organized a town hall meeting to diffuse the rumors. The police had to come rescue the CIA apologists. When the video of the Rodney King beating aired on TV, L.A. was already a powder keg. The verdict was the last straw that set people off.
dennis @ 57:
Why so angry, d? Bad day on Tuesday?
Rove on Fox, Fox is the enemy. Big topic today about whether a HS graduate should be able to wear dress Blue uniform. Most people I know who joined the military couldn't have cared a less about graduating from HS. High school is like the boy scouts in the scheme of things. HS is nothing but waste of time.
Wexler's lips to the higher power's ears. I hope this ends up with Rove finally on the receiving end of some much needed justice.
So stop talking and posturing about supoenas and contempt charges and start issuing them already. No more props for good TV appearances untill something comes from it.
To his credit Abrams* has been great as far as pundits go on this, but lets see congress follow through too.
*he really needs to stop pushing the 'nightmare' ticket though. no clinton.
I like pie@31 That is hardly a weird theory, the bush crime family has been running drugs into this and other countries for years. What better way to clean up the piles of cash that is created by black market drugs and weapons. The opium trade is booming in Afghanistan now, thanks to gw and his mugs. The goal of drug dealers is to get control of all the stages of the trade. First: production, well they sure have that. Second: transport, well they sure as hell have that,* as well as almost risk free via cia planes and pilots. Third: dispersal, the cia has for years had the largest network in the country, perhaps the world for distributing drugs, weapons and information. The big churchs of the magical being crowd are a perfect way to clean large sums of cash under the radar. And who really believes that their are that many, roll on the floor, talk in tongues, snake kissing dip shits out their giving all that money to them. Another thing you should add to the theory is the fact that anyone who might have been a loose end or threat in some form or another to "the family", is soon found dead by their own hand, rare illness or car accident. These people are happy to cut off a horses head and leave it in your bed to get what they want. * The cia plane that crashed with coke on board also has ties to brent wilkes, abramoff and cunningham as well as the flight school that was training some of the 911 highjackers. The godfather looks like a sissie next to these fuckers! http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html CEO
When Democrats threaten, Republicans laugh.
Contempt for the rule of law by members of this Administration undermines society's confidence in our political and legal system. Haul their slimy butts before Congress and throw the book at them. And just for affect, arrest Rove while he's appearing on faux news, as they would do on "Law & Order."
This very interesting conversation reminds me of another fact about the crime organization who is running our country: The Clintons are part of it. They allowed cocaine running in Arkansas when they were governing there. Hence their being "allowed" to have a seat in the White House.
THAT is why I don't want them near our government again. I don't believe for a minute Obama would commit such a heinous crime against the people. He is not one of THEM.
rooth hussein @ 19:
I agree. I don't think that there will be any election this year. The "boogie men" are gonna be out in full force come...let's say...September or October at which time there won't be an election. Of course, this sorry azz administration will probably remain in charge will keep us "safe". Yeah right! Never have I seen such hatred that SOME people have for people different from themselves. Pitiful.
Rove. Rope. Tree. Some assembly required.
The reason that no one is going after the Bush administration with any real force is because Bush would call a state of emergency and implement martial law to avoid accountability.
He is going to do it anyway so I really don't understand why someone with a set of balls doesn't at least shove it in his face and bring him out into the open. Why play his game. Force his hand- we have nothing to lose.
On the other hand, the longer we wait- the more time he has to create loop holes and outs and spin.
Here is what Robert Wexler wrote to my partner when we e-mailed our feelings about this;
Dear Terrence,
Last night, I appeared on MSNBC's Verdict with Dan Abrams to discuss Karl Rove's outrageous refusal to appear before Congress regarding serious allegations that he used the US Justice Department to take down a prominent Democratic politician. It is alleged that Mr. Rove personally instigated the prosecution of former Alabama Governor Don Siegleman. The case has been criticized by legal experts, and 52 former state attorney generals – both Repub