Obama could see 'the rooftops of a lot of Iraqi houses'
By Steve Benen Sunday Jun 01, 2008 2:30pmThe issue of whether Barack Obama should spend more time in Iraq seems to be gaining quite a bit of media traction. John McCain and the Republican National Committee are pushing the matter pretty aggressively, and media outlets seem to perceive this as a new issue that didn’t play a role in the Democratic nominating fight.
But as campaign talking points go, this remains pretty weak, media interest notwithstanding. For one thing, Obama is planning an overseas trip, including time in Iraq, fairly soon. For another, all of this talk is a reminder of just how little American VIPs learn during codel visits.
TP highlighted a discussion on the subject yesterday with CNN’s Baghdad correspondent, Michael Ware.
CNN has the whole transcript, but Ware’s whole take is worth considering in detail if you can’t watch video clips online.
“Senator McCain has been here, what, more than half a dozen times,” Ware said. “And we’ve seen him get assessments of Iraq terribly wrong. So I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on the fact that your opponent has only been here once.
“And let’s not forget what do American officials get to see? Well, they get to see the rooftops of a lot of Iraqi houses as they chopper over them or across vast expanses of desert. They get to see rooms in the inside of U.S. bases in the Green Zone, both of which are divorced from reality. And they’ll get inundated with military briefings."
This is consistent with what Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.), a decorated combat veteran and a former Secretary of the Navy, said when he called visits from congressional delegations “dog and pony shows.”
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Call me a cynic, but what happens if Obama goes to Iraq and there is an "accident".
Serious presidential candidates should be well-versed in dog and pony shows.
According to The Weather Channel, it's 135 degrees in Iraq ...
.... in the SHADE !!!
Who the heck wants to go THERE ??
For WHAT ?
And what does it cost in manpower to cover their sorry asses
when Iraq?
I would throw this back to McCain and say "you've spent so much time on the ground over there, why isn't your perception of the place better and your judgement more clear?"
This is sad, but not as sad as the "Start your career in homeland security" advertisment on the right hand side of this website....
This is an issue I have been thinking a lot about. I don't know if a trip to Iraq for Obama would mean that he would see anything but the proverbial "dog and pony show", but imagine if Senator Obama were able to get out and meet some of the Iraqi people. Being the first person of color to have a chance at winning the U.S. presdency, he might receive an unprecedented hero's welcome...which would be an embarassment to Bush who is hated everywhere in the world he goes (except Albania?), and at the same time might give fodder to certain far right cuckoo clocks who are painting Obama as some Muslim anti-christ and enemy of Israel (it may sound funny, but this is exactly what is going on in far right circles). Then there is the issue of Obama's safety... What a contrast it would be though, if Obama had the courage to meet the Iraqi people face to face, with President Bush who hid in a bunker when his safety was threatened.
For a related article on the Obama campaign please see: http://jviz.blogspot.com/2008/05/obama-running-mate.html
and for a realted article on the McCain campaign (fair is fair) see:
http://jviz.blogspot.com/2008/05/john-mccains-running-mate.html
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
Took the words right out of my keyboard.
On a previous visit to Iraq, McCain returned with the delusional impression that…
On that occasion McCain showed up in Baghdad wearing a Kevlar vest, with an entourage of 100 soldiers, three Blackhawk helicopters, and two Apache gunships. The absurdity of this manufactured photo-op prompted Ware to remark at the time:
Ware is fine a reporter who has lived in Iraq for most of the past five years.
p.s. Please help send me to Netroots Nation on a Democracy for America scholarship. Thanks.
My first thought too Cannibal. 'specially since there's so many "contract" workers over there to begin with.
This is as close to the Blues as I want Obama to get right now. The Living kind:
http://www.folo.us/2008/06/02/barack-obama-writes-about-chicago-blues-an...
You know, although I'm not a big fan of Michael Ware, I have to applaud his role as "reality check" throughout this entire fiasco. He should win some kind of award for his work, possibly some sort of statue with a bendy nose or something. Seriously, the man is a hero.
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
Well, first they'd try to make him build American weaponry. But of course, Obama would instead construct a futuristic power supply, build a sweet MechWarrior and rocket boot his way to sweet freedom and the presidency!
Oh wait...
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
Yes - the ungenerous side of me cynically agrees with you. What if they're trying to drive him off there for a reason? I suspect Obama is too smart to let himself be led into a trap of their making though. If he goes - he'll do it because he thinks it's important -- and we'll trust the people around him to ensure his protection.
*
The media is trying to make themselves a part of the story by pushing this. Soon they will have only two candidates to cover for 24/7. They have to create the next big thing that they themselves will be involving in, so they step up and say Senator Obama must go to Iraq. When and if he goes they will puff up their chests and say they forced him into going.
Why the hell should he go? We have internet service and telephones. If he wants to know what's going on over there right now he can call, or better yet, call Ware. I guarantee he will know more about what is going on, on the ground, than any trip can tell the Senator.
Why would Obama want to fly anywhere with that old senile fool anyways ? Can hear MC Same now.
"100 dead Iranians on the wall... 100 dead Muslims.. Take one down ..kick it around...99 dead Iranians on the wall "
wvguy @ 5:
Because he argues with BS and semantics, Obama just can't fight him on his level as the americon people don't know the difference between bickering and actual debate and would see McCain bouncing up and down in his chair chanting "time lines" and would think he's the ideal leader of their country..........
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
Why do you think McPain is pushing it so hard ?
When and if he goes, he will not go with McCain. His campaign has already made that very clear. Also if he goes, I'll hold my breath until his plane sits down once again in the US and he emerges safe.
But he can buy new rugs for just two bucks apiece! Take Michele and the kids - take 'em to the mall!
McSame's an idiot. There can't be a military officer there that doesn't know that.
*
"John McCain and the Republican National Committee are pushing the matter pretty aggressively..."
look at the 'wonder' it did for mccain, and all the times he has gotten the bubble-tour in iraq. it seems that every time mccain goes to the region he knows less and less about the ME.
i do hope mccain persists in highlighting his ignorance.
ChicoHussin@3: Yeah, but "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever"
Screw the media and the Republicans. They don't dictate to the Democratic nominee. Where Obama needs to go before the election is to Europe where he will have a tremendous and welcoming reception. That will show the nation that America can regain its place in the world by advocating diplomacy and not mass destruction all the time.
If Barack goes to Iraq
mccain could supply the bullet proof vests
Which they'll need
If dick chinless accompanies them.
'Dog and pony shows'... Yep, Webb nailed it on the propaganda visits to the green zone.. Obama doesn't need to buy into that shit to make a case for being an effective president, noone does anymore really. Flying over rooftops and staged photo-ops inside armed fortresses with hundreds of security staff and flying armed helocopters ensuring life and limb doesn't amount to squat as indicator of qualifications for president... However a strong case CAN be made that politicians who do engage in this theater.. And, who then, 'still' manage to completely fuck up the analysis of what they saw and what it means?? Well that just might indicate a lack of qualifications for the job... Vote accordingly....JD
14 pissed off patricia Says: The media is trying to make themselves a part of the story by pushing this. Soon they will have only two candidates to cover for 24/7. They have to create the next big thing that they themselves will be involving in, so they step up and say Senator Obama must go to Iraq. When and if he goes they will puff up their chests and say they forced him into going.
ohhh, the media. our beloved msm.
they have decided that covering the politics and the horse race is the ONLY aspect of the campaign worth covering. we hear about pastor-gates, flubs, strategies, aides, etc. but the msm has decided, almost without exception, to NOT cover the actual issues themselves.
with a 24/7 cable channel you'd think that the msm would be responsible enough to actually try to cover the issues, instead of the gossip.
there, i went ahead and made myself laugh
The Iraqi Upturn
Don't look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war.
Washington Post editorial
Sunday, June 1, 2008
The point of going to Iraq is to "appear" presidential. Now, I happen to be someone who is sick and tired of presidents and president wannabes going on PR tours of natural disastor areas and war zones. I don't see what good BS does in helping people who are homeless, dead or injured. And going into an area as dangerous as the Middle East and into a country as war torn as Iraq, should be the last place a presidential candidate should venture into for purely PR purposes. The photos of McCain being escorted by dozens of fully armed soldiers wearing a flak jacket and helmet in an Iraqi market he later claimed was a safe and casual walk in a park, does not make me feel good about exposing Obama to McCain's delusional ideas of safety. And I don't want to see Obama in military gard at all. We've had one president who likes to dress up and play soldier, we don't need another tin soldier president. If I were Obama's people, I would arrange for Obama to visit as many of our troops as possible and have substantive dialogues with them so that his trip isn't a phony photo-op, but a meaningful interaction with the men and women who are risking their lives for their country. Along the way, I'd have him stop and meet with Iraqi and Irani leaders for discussions about the future relationships between our three countries and what we can do together that benefits the people of Iraq. I'd show McCain and the Republicans how a "real" president is supposed to act!
dennis @ 25:
Editorial=Opinion, not Fact.
Will go. Has gone. You lefties are so uptight about verb tense.
If he's going to go, then he's already gone. That's the new way to talk.
Heck, if he's planning on going to there ten times before he dies, then he's already been there more often than McCain.
Confused? See: here.
This morning on Morning Joe, Mika kept going on and on about Obama leaving his church. She said in Senator Obama's speech this weekend he seemed to hint that the media was keeping the Rev story alive. She acted upset that he would say such a thing and in any way blame the media. Then she would wait about two minutes and bring the whole thing up again like a broken record. Is she so stupid that she couldn't see that she was proving Senator Obama's point?
This was by today old news but not too old and rotten for her to drag out again and again. If we wanted to hear and see things like that, we have Fox news.
Unless Michelle has a need for some Iraqi rugs at their house, there would be no need for Senator Obama to go to Iraq. That's all that Lindsey Graham got out of one of his most recent trips to that country.
dennis @ 25:
No need for Obama to go, then.
Woops - there goes Wet Start Johnny's talking point...
Samson@24: You and I, and any open minded, intelligent individuals are on the
same page. The Corporate MSM is a sad excuse for news of relevance. IF I could
be granted a wish, I'd wish that the 24 cable news(?) stations would be taken off
the airways for 48 hours..and that is really not asking for too much.
pissed off patricia @ 14:
This is what I said when this first came up last week. A total non-issue, except that it is the perfect media story now that Rev Wright is off the radar.
Fux, of course, will set up the story, followed by CNN's Glenn Dreck, then Wolfboy. The non-cable guys, ABCCBSNBCorp, will of course, have to oblige to carry it to the huddling unwashed cracker masses who have no cable or internet, but will
never vote for a black or woman who is at the mercy of Blackwater thugsalways vote for a courageous white guy who buy carpets from local businessmen for his lovely white wife and child (shhh, just the white one...) back home in the US of A.Mark my words, within a week or two, THIS will be THE issue around every bubba bar in Redneck, USA.
God bless America (please....)
Limbaugh went to Afghanistan. So did Kidd Rock. Does that make THEM presidential material?
I. Think. Not.
Believe it or not Norah O'Donnell (sp) asked the RNC chair why since McCain has been there so many times does he keeps getting the facts wrong. LOL You should have seen him spin (and avoid the question). She even called him on the fact that he wouldn't answer. He didn't answer her next question either and she sent him on his way. He wouldn't deviate from his talking points and kept repeating that McCain has been there 8 times and Obama only once.
Is the media waking up?
"Don’t look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war." Washington Post editorial. Sunday, June 1, 2008.
See, that's why it's labeled an editorial. And why it's on the OPINION page.
Geez louise.
So, this is why McCain went to Iraq. To use it against his opponents. Gosh, I don't think the Iraqis nor Americans care. We should have been out of there. It has been 5 years. Longer than WW2. This is all a side show.
Don't go, Barack. Don't go. Please don't go. Even if they don't have an accident planned for you, just the general level of violence and roadside bombs could be catastrophic. Look at that poor news anchor guy from ABC.
25 dennis Says: The Iraqi Upturn
Don’t look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war.
Washington Post editorial
Sunday, June 1, 2008
i thought we already won?
remember mission accomplished?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when the CPA announced the Iraqi Governing Council?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when we killed uday and qusay, and caught saddam?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when U.S. transferred sovereignty to Iraqi interim government?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when we killed zarqawi?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
finally...
remember the purple fingers?
-nope, still not it
but i am positive that THIS time we've turned the corner. i am SURE that now we are getting a clear and accurate picture of what is transpiring. i am doubly certain that i can trust washpost editorials, as they have NEVER been the source of bad information before *cough*
31 Doggiebobo Says: Samson@24: You and I, and any open minded, intelligent individuals are on the same page. The Corporate MSM is a sad excuse for news of relevance. IF I could be granted a wish, I’d wish that the 24 cable news(?) stations would be taken off the airways for 48 hours..and that is really not asking for too much.
thanks doggiebobo, and i agree
unfortunately it seems that the tabloid nature of the 24hr cable channels is not by accident. and, worse, the public--i would wager--actually prefers this type of "news" "coverage" over anything else that might ask them to think, challenge their worldview, or *gasp* call corporations to task.
this is a repost, i screwed my tags up... apologies....
25 dennis Says: The Iraqi Upturn
Don’t look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war.
Washington Post editorial
Sunday, June 1, 2008
i thought we already won?
remember mission accomplished?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when the CPA announced the Iraqi Governing Council?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when we killed uday and qusay, and caught saddam?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when U.S. transferred sovereignty to Iraqi interim government?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
remember when we killed zarqawi?
-oh, wait, that wasn't it...
finally...
remember the purple fingers?
-nope, still not it
but i am positive that THIS time we've turned the corner. i am SURE that now we are getting a clear and accurate picture of what is transpiring. i am doubly certain that i can trust washpost editorials, as they have NEVER been the source of bad information before *cough*
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
I'll tell you what'll happen. Hillary will end up having to take the nomination tainted by accusations of having murderd Obama regardless of the fact that Hillary's power is much too limited to put a hit on him in Iraq. Hell's bells, she ain't Vladdie Putin! Then, you'll have the Congress promise an investigation which will come to the conclusion that it was an accident as fast as the Warren Commission did that Oswald killed JFK. Conspiracy theories will go batshit insane like they do with every prominent assassination. Bush will offer his condolences, Hillary the nominee will have a Vince Foster slander on steroids in the general while being tastelessly attacked with Obama ads from the primaries, and the GOP will win due to being mobilized with a candidate that is bound to get them riled up.
Obama needs to go into space before he can address NASA issues. This is just one of those pointless Washington spectacles. What will a heavily guarded walk through the green zone of Baghdad really solve?
NotThisGod @ 43:
I say he needs to have a baby before he can talk about abortion.
JTM @ 28:
And you righties are such tools and fools. You've been played for chumps by the ultra rich and powerful. For 95+% of the citizens in this country their lives are taking a turn for the worst so the top 5% or less can get richer and more powerful and you keep supporting the power elite. You are truly a bunch of fools. Of course you continue to think you are the clever and insightful ones. Bunch of freakin' maroons (courtesy of B. Bunny)
I think it would be very useful if Obama took Ware up on his challenge. The man has spent 5 years in country. Talks to all sides of the situation. It's possible he might actually have something valuable to say. It's for sure that McBush won't be planning on sitting down with him Might hear the truth and that's just not the neocon way.
The army in Sri Lanka has been winning against the terrorists for some years now if you want to go by conventional yardsticks of territory captured and confirmed losses against the enemy. However, even if they do reach ultimate and total victory, it's going to take many more years yet. It's that last 10% that's the real killer, metaphorically and literally.
And all this is in an area that is only a small fraction of an island whose total area is smaller than the Australian island of Tasmania.
McCain and his masters, the Republican warlords, in conjunction with their corporate toadies, the MSM, are trying to jerk Obama around to see if he'll dance to their tune. If Obama has any sense, he'll turn the tables on them. How? Don't know but somebody must have some good ideas.
Man, the GOP is amazing. Leave it to that collection of steaming turds to actually paint the Iraq clusterfuck as a positive thing. What balls.
Of course, Americans are so stupid, it just might work.
well if as obama has said we may well still have troops in iraq even into his last year of his first term im sure he will have plenty of time to visit the troops seeing as how the new owners of the iraq war will be the democrats!
The statement by McCain that "you can walk down the streets" is telling, especially for a guy who spent time in Viet Nam. Of course you can walk down the streets and be relatively safe, in just about any war zone; Lebanese used to go for coffee during their civil war, and the same held true even during the worst days of the war in the Balkans. It's profoundly amazing how much ordinary life can just roll on even in the midst of things being torn apart by bullets and missiles.
That doesn't mean, however, that this is an enviable thing, or an example of something good; the fact that Iraqis manage, despite the odds, to continue their day to day lives is a testament to their strength than to anything the American's are doing, or even all the various Islamist gangster groups operating in the region.
If Obama does goes to Iraq, wait for some adolescent, vitriolic, self-loathing media windbag (Hannity, anyone??) to use the term "steppin' fetchit'" to describe his acquisience. The reigh-wingers do have a nasty tongue.
Neo-classical secular humanist @ 51:
One of the sad things about righties these days is that they're bad losers and worse winners. Makes for unpleasant people to have to hang around.
Don't you think our troops have been sh*t on enough by politicians? Now they are being asked to serve as stage props for the general election. I suspect the military would have higher priorities in Iraq than dropping everything to serve as tour guides of roof tops for politicians.
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 52:
Their achilles heel is that they are self-referential and self-reverential. You can't do shit with somebody who has that world-view other than ignore him or kick him in the balls if he threatens you.
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
I guess I am a cynic too. Is it too late to start a "Obama don't go to Iraq" campaign?
Neo-classical secular humanist @ 51:
Agreed. Despite that the whole exercise of Obama going to Iraq being an attempt in media placation, he will be carved up by the Fuxperts whether he stays or goes.
Unfortunately, he should go sooner rather than later. Personally, I favor a stealth, undercover flight like Chimpy did, if the resources were at Obama's disposal. Tonight would be good; he could be back before tomorrow's Clannity program found out he'd gone.
The appropriate response from Obama or anyone responding to Reps on this issue is very simple:
"I do not want to interfere with the very important job our troops are doing, and by pulling them away to guard me on my visit is not only silly but potentially even more dangerous for them and I will not, repeat, not knowingly put any soldier in harm's way."
Dog and pony shows are for show boats who have nothing real to contribute.
I would love to send Kristol over there tho, just to see him shit his pants at the first sound of an explosion.
Well, not actually see that, hear about it is probably better.
Why should Obama spend more time in Iraq than bush, when bush wants to stay and Obama doesn't? Obama should tell the repubs to go f**k themselves.
I worry that the " powers-that-be" use this trip by as a method to eliminate him from the political scene and use the tragedy as a way to:
1) Insert Hillary as Democratic nominee
2) Approve ramp up to military action by framing Iran as the culprit
3) Disenfranchise the young, minority and normally-non-voting-citizens from massing for a vote to change the way Washington functions.
4) Result in the status quo continuing as evidence of what happens to those inspired leaders who do not toe the line.
Damn I hate being so freakin' cynical. Hope to hell I am way off.
who cares what obama does? i don't! hillary or McCain (no one else is competent or qualified)!
obama and his thug friends should go to iraq (and stay).
Rico @ 53:
A very good point, and I wish Obama would use it as a rationale for not going to Iraq.
We've turned so many corners
I'm getting dizzy
And about
To hurl.
Maybe Bush can loan Obama his kevlar turkey from Bushes Thanksgiving Day visit a couple of years ago.
#1 and #8 Of course that's the first thing on my mind, and everyone else's too.
I think it is absurd, and like Webb, who knows firsthand, it's a total waste of time.
He should just wait until he's president. Also, must beg the obvious question: WHY do the evil republickkans (not all) want this to happen so badly???? WHY??
It's W's INVASION...........he should be there NOT Obama.
I forgot to mention that I did email Obama that I thought it was a terrible idea. Maybe it would be helpful to do more of that.
Also, screw the repubs. Who gives a damn what they want. Send McCain back to screw up some more stuff.............but Obama, no way, man.
Who's going to gaurd him............Blackwater? Yeah, right. Erikkk Prince's company???????
Email O, and let him know.
Wanna bet he'll cave and plan a quick trip to Iraq?
The GOP has him on a string.
Sad, really.
All the people supporting bush are either rich or just fools, damn idiots without enough brain power to be able to think for themselves.
The biggest problem they have is their burning hatred of any one different and that put them at odds with 72% of the people that are good Americans, people that care and want to make things better for all people.
republicans just want to make things better for themselves and don't give a shit if you live or die.
Or if your government kills you or people in another country people like myshiba just could not care less. no one that votes republican or for republicans gives a shit about anyone but themselves, If you think not just sit down and talk to one you will see pretty quick how selfish and greedy they are. Just ask what they think about taking care of someone that cannot take care of themself, you will see they don't care!
myshiba if you want to see thug friends look at the republicans and particularly the bush republicans. they are just murderers and torturers and thieves, truly the thugs just like the good nazi's that followed and did the killing for hitler.
I don't see any difference between george and adolf both self absorbed insane criminals with fools as followers!
IMO, it's almost impossible for someone born in the west to understand the commonalities and differences between the dozens of different combinations of religious sects, tribal affiliations, and familial links that exist in Iraq. It's damn near impossible when you're not even interested in recognizing that such designations exist. No matter how much time any foreign visitor spends in Iraq, they're not going to "get it." I hope Obama has the common sense not to claim that he knows something that McCain doesn't, but to only claim he's going to listen and learn, and not make decisions in a vacuum.
If Senator Obama is to go to Iraq, he should wait until after he is elected to the presidency. That way he can better control the security team that will have his life in their hands. There is nothing to be gained, at this point, except to concede to the republican machine that maybe they had a point. They don't. Telling Americans what his plan for Iraq is going to achieve is needed much more than a pointless trip to a location too well suited for all kinds of treachery.
For 5 years, Michael Ware keeps saying pretty much the exact opposite of BushCo does, any Neocon in DC listening?
cheryl seal did a lot on assass by plane
McSame has gone shopping in Baghdad several times and still can't tell Shiite from Shinola . . . .
... and besides, I'm an ignorant old fart, too. Does anyone know what codel means? Not being a wisenheimer, but I really like words and get excited when one new to me presents itself; or, is it the same as CODEL, acronym for Congressional Delegation (or Coalition for Democracy in Liberia, according to thefreedictionary.com)? If another acronym (y-a-w-n), it will be swept off deck, a
MWOB to float in the miasma of alphabet memory soup, free of tether or floatation device, and eventually to degrade into a word search, to mingle with the other mental detritus that silts over DJL (Davey Jones' Locker), like OCD, RBI, GDP, PMS, HUAAC, ADD, SCotUS, ad absurdum.ricchase #71:
Pat Tillman (sp?) treatment was my first thought when I heard Obama may go to Iraq.
Another non-issue voters could care less about. Keep on trying to distract. Republican party grows smaller every day. People are tired of their lies and BS.
I suggest Obama say, "I have a better idea. I stay here and we bring the 150,000 troops home to see me!"
OBAMA should go on THE SAME TOUR McCain did... he would be treated to streets nearly cleared of people, a view of the back of a dozen soldiers' walking in front of him, the sight of circling helocopters, and fearful merchants---
afterward he could come home and report that General P walks around bravely in his underware and without a weapon in sight
GOBAMA
Of course Obama should visit the colonies. What perspective Emperor wouldn't want to know a little more about the territories he will be ruling and exploiting?
CannibalPlanet @ 1:
I was thinkin the same thing last night! There are ALOT of right winger Blackwater mercs over their, they'd probably take shot at Obama for free!
I think it would be a BAD IDEA for Obama to visit Iraq with Blackwater and other merc groups over there...
Obama needs to be very careful. I wouldn't put it past the government to stage an "accident" in order to get him out of the way.
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